Is money a big deal in a relationship?

[Vail_Indigo]

... I live right across the street from train tracks...
.... I want a HoboVail....
I will hug her and squeeze her and do naughty things with her!
After a bath. Traincars are icky.

HoboVail likes to be bathed
nodnodnod

 

[DarkWarrioress]

Money is always a big factor in a relationship, not the primary one, but a close second. We all have different ambitions, goals, desires. Some come from a very poor background and thus, money has a substantial meaning for them. Others, not so much. It’s all subjective. But what I think is mutual to all is the need to have enough to live on, to put a roof over our heads, pay the bills, put food in our bellies and clothe ourselves with some leftover to enjoy, at least once in awhile, things the world has to offer.

Depending on the partners, children can enter into the scenario. That changes the outlook. There’s a small human being they become responsible for. The outlook on money shifts again with the need. It expands to cover the range of responsibility.

The cycle of life must also be taken into consideration. We die. Eventually. That alone creates a monetary requirement. We can’t get away from it. Money truly does make the world go around. The only thing we can control is its importance and affect in our individual lives.

 

[laceandcogs]

I'm with Mr. Ice, here. Money isn't -just- money. In fact, I hear that it is what makes the world go round (a mark, a yen, a buck, or a pound...).

I grew up very, very poor. I remember all of it, and how scary and awful it was. Now, I have rather a lot of money, and I like it. It makes me feel safe, and feeling safe makes me feel happy. I'm not going to apologize for that, and I think it's ridiculous that people will pretend that being poor is morally superior. The balance in your checking account has nothing to do with the content of your character, period. I'm not bad because I'm rich, and you're not good because you're poor.

I wouldn't seriously date someone who didn't maintain their finances at a safe, comfortable level. I don't need him to be loaded. If you pay all your bills on time and in full and that leaves you with change for a once-a-month-meal at McDonalds, fine. We're cool. You've got your money right. If you're constantly kiting checks and you're two months behind on your rent and you pay the electric company just enough to keep the lights on, we aren't going to be a happy couple.

 

[Annisthyrienne]

I greatly admire your intention of getting out of debt, Vail. I just wanted to let you know that. As for my own goal of paying 1500 extra a month on my mortgage, my last remaining debt, it's looking like it's not going to happen this month. I'm pretty upset about it. I might manage 1000. But I hate not meeting my goals. It depresses me and makes me feel like a failure.

 

[Leon_k]

ofcourse,
when two minutes of sex and two months of initial-romance is over, Money becomes the biggest deal in relationship, along with in-laws.

 

[dragonrazor]

I greatly admire your intention of getting out of debt, Vail. I just wanted to let you know that. As for my own goal of paying 1500 extra a month on my mortgage, my last remaining debt, it's looking like it's not going to happen this month. I'm pretty upset about it. I might manage 1000. But I hate not meeting my goals. It depresses me and makes me feel like a failure.

I keep trying to get out of debt and restore my credit but...Debt seems to not want to let go. It seems to enlist friends and family of mine to help it out...

 

[Annisthyrienne]

I keep trying to get out of debt and restore my credit but...Debt seems to not want to let go. It seems to enlist friends and family of mine to help it out...

You cannot treat debt with kid gloves and hope it will just leave you alone in time. It will make a slave of you for your whole life. You have to attack it with the intensity of a gazelle trying to escape a cheetah, throwing everything you can muster against it until you are free.

It's not easy. No one ever said it would be. But it's damn well worth it.

 

[Fish_Tales]

I'd put money, how it's made and how it's handled, in the top five of dating's most important and underestimated factors. I appreciate some of the sentiments expressed here but I don't think they're touching the entire truth of what someone's financial status and ceiling really represent.

I have to disagree with the blanketness of your statement.
I make a very good salary, and when I'm out of debt at the end of the year, I'll be able to easily afford to support two people comfortably. My material wants are within my range, and my career is as secure as any.
What I do require out of a partner is that their effort/pay ratio is reasonable. And that they respect that money doesn't grow on trees (god, I sound like my mother) and so they can't always get what they want.
But, again, I'm not career oriented, don't care about 'success' much except in what it does for my life outside of work.
So its a very different perspective from many.

Its all about the relationship to money, and life goals. I've fought hard to put myself and money into a good relationship, and its worked out well. It is no longer symbolic for me, so as long as enough comes in, I'm fine. And since my career is just a way for me to get what I want, I don't use money as a gauge of success. I also don't want kids. I also don't particularly care if I ever own a house again, and if I did it would likely be small (no kids). The only thing I really want is to retire ASAP and I've fairly fucked up that dream, which is fine. I like to travel, and know how to do so on the cheap. Oh, I would like to be able to take a year off to write, and I can probably make that happen too.
BUT, my partner has to share that relationship, or make a lot of money herself.

Money is always a big factor in a relationship, not the primary one, but a close second. We all have different ambitions, goals, desires. Some come from a very poor background and thus, money has a substantial meaning for them. Others, not so much. It’s all subjective. But what I think is mutual to all is the need to have enough to live on, to put a roof over our heads, pay the bills, put food in our bellies and clothe ourselves with some leftover to enjoy, at least once in awhile, things the world has to offer.

Depending on the partners, children can enter into the scenario. That changes the outlook. There’s a small human being they become responsible for. The outlook on money shifts again with the need. It expands to cover the range of responsibility.

The cycle of life must also be taken into consideration. We die. Eventually. That alone creates a monetary requirement. We can’t get away from it. Money truly does make the world go around. The only thing we can control is its importance and affect in our individual lives.

I'm with Mr. Ice, here. Money isn't -just- money. In fact, I hear that it is what makes the world go round (a mark, a yen, a buck, or a pound...).

I grew up very, very poor. I remember all of it, and how scary and awful it was. Now, I have rather a lot of money, and I like it. It makes me feel safe, and feeling safe makes me feel happy. I'm not going to apologize for that, and I think it's ridiculous that people will pretend that being poor is morally superior. The balance in your checking account has nothing to do with the content of your character, period. I'm not bad because I'm rich, and you're not good because you're poor.

I wouldn't seriously date someone who didn't maintain their finances at a safe, comfortable level. I don't need him to be loaded. If you pay all your bills on time and in full and that leaves you with change for a once-a-month-meal at McDonalds, fine. We're cool. You've got your money right. If you're constantly kiting checks and you're two months behind on your rent and you pay the electric company just enough to keep the lights on, we aren't going to be a happy couple.

You cannot treat debt with kid gloves and hope it will just leave you alone in time. It will make a slave of you for your whole life. You have to attack it with the intensity of a gazelle trying to escape a cheetah, throwing everything you can muster against it until you are free.

It's not easy. No one ever said it would be. But it's damn well worth it.

Um...sorry to put you all together and make this a massive post, but this is a really interesting conversation....

You're all right. A lot of it comes down to how you personally value it. If you have a modest house, but earn the salary of someone who could afford something grander, then you're fine - well, more than fine. However, the same salary for some who wants the biggest house in the best suburb, well that's different. You'll have to keep working your guts out in (possibly) a field you don't enjoy. That's fine too - some people genuinely like to strive to make as much as they can - it defines them - a Rolex watch instead of a Citizen watch. A Porsche instead of Subaru. But who's to say that's not noble. Shit, if I'd had more talent, I had a chance of making a career of kicking around a piece of leather with air in it and calling it a job - when you reduce it down to that - is that such a worthwhile or noble pursuit. (For the record - I would have said "shit yeah" but I reckon billions in the world wouldn't). Like Laceandcogs says there is nothing wrong with wanting stuff and earning good money - what she and DW say show that a lot of it is not the tangible - we do have to have a certain amount of it, but there's also the intangible part of the feeling of security and independence it offers. It takes a lot of stress off your mind if you know you are financially secure and independent (I must qualify that - L&C and DW don't often say anything I would disagree with anyway ). We are not better people if we're poor and we're not worse people if we're rich.

I don't want anyone to think I don't value money - that's not true. I was up there with the best of them in chasing it - it directed my choices for many years - what career to do, what hours to work, when to consider having children. You need security. Like I said, I don't have debt and own everything - but I could have if I wanted to be "swankier" but I don't want to.

But as Vail says - that is not the total story. It's about who brings what to the table in a holistic fashion. I don't want to see your accounts book - I want to see your life book. See, if someone contributes nothing and lives off you and treats your money frivolously and racks up debts and...well, you get the picture... that's not about money - that's about they're just disrespectful and shit people. If I was earning heaps and my partner was say a schoolteacher or worked for a charity or an NGO, well, then I'd say they're more than carrying their load. I'd just be happy that society values what I do more (in a financial sense) than the fact they earn less than me. In fact, how do we value a mother that looks after the kids and gives them all the attention and love they need - we don't pay them, but are they any less worthwhile? I don't base the value of a partner (or any person for that matter) on the amount of money they bring to the table - I base it on whether they're a suitable person. And a suitable person will treat their responsibilities and money with respect!!

I just know now - for me - at this point in my life - that money ain't what it's cracked up to be nor a priority (except paying the bills and eating). It's good if you're good. But have a tragedy, an illness or endure something traumatic and see how many times you bother looking at your bank balance or being proud of your car or counting how many bathrooms your house has.

Shit - sorry - again I had to get that off my chest - you all have really struck a chord with me by opening up this topic. Thanks.

 

[Britwitch]

I think all that's been said just shows how varied opinion is on this topic. A lot of it will depend on your life before you even meet your partner, on how you were brought up, on the attitude towards money that was instilled in you...and then how your partner was brought up.

Working.
Earning money.
There are very few people in the world who don't have to do these things and so they do creep into everyone's lives whether we want them to or not.

I work full time as a teacher, I do it because I love it. I will never be rich but if I wanted to be rich I wouldn't have gotten into this job in the first place.
Mr Brit is, at the moment, at home with Baby Brit.

Does it cause friction that I am the 'bread winner' at the moment...? Yes. I'd be lying if I said it didn't (and you probably wouldn't believe me! )
Do we deal with it? Yes. Because that's what being married is about.

Would we like to have more disposable income? Hell yeah! But we don't, so we deal with that too.

Maybe one day my little photography side line will come into it's own and we might have more money to play with, maybe the world economic situation and all the problem's attributed to it will be solved and Mr Brit will land the job he can't find and again money will be less of a problem.
But until then, we'll keep living pretty close to our budget, occasionally treating ourselves to little things when we can.

Just to add, when Baby Brit was born and had her surgery, extended hospital stay etc. money was the last thing on our minds, sure we worried a little about medical bills etc but we knew there were bigger things to worry about at the time.

Fish, I know nothing can change your situation and saying 'I understand' probably doesn't count for much...and I guess I'm lucky that I don't truly understand what you and yours are going through but...nevertheless, I admire your attitude a lot. A hell of a lot.

Anyway, I think I've rambled and probably not made much sense....so I'll stop typing...

 

[Light Ice]

Money, and the vast things that it represents, is up there with love, respect, trust, and communication. It becomes a vital part of any partnership. How you make it, how much of it you make, and what you do with it are characteristics that determine so much of your lifestyle that it can either make you or break you as an attractive partner to some.

The actual amount of it you have, or that you make, is still critically important depending on what kind of lifestyle you live with your partner.

The idea that it isn't "very important, really" is bunk. It's extraordinarily easy for people who live comfortably to say that and incredibly misleading.

"We're both comfortable, we both work about the same and it suits our lifestyle, so money isn't very important."

It's only "not important" because you've already arranged to have your needs met and your lifestyle sustained. It's "not important" because you've already worked through the need to have it and the practical means of how much to have.

If that was to change, if your lifestyle wasn't secure, it'd be more present in your mind.

Think, for a second, that your partner spent wildly more than what you earned as a partnership. Think, for a second, that they chose not to hold up their end for a reason you couldn't reconcile with yourself. Think, for a second, that your aspirations for life extended beyond their own and you couldn't reconcile the two between one another.

Money is critically important.

For me, admittedly, it's more so.

I grew up poor. Not low-middle class poor. Really poor. Having enough of it to travel, to buy toys, and to play became a life goal. I've worked extraordinarily hard to get to a place where it isn't a concern. I don't stress about bills. I don't stress about buying a new phone. It makes me happy. In many ways, really, laceandcogs have a story that's similar in that regard.

But if my partner didn't have that same desire? If she spent more than we could afford and wasted it? If she didn't support me in my desire to obtain more wealth for us?

Deal breaker. Period. Our lifestyles are too different, I wouldn't feel supported in the way I lived, and it simply couldn't work.

The romantics ignore this, obviously. It doesn't fall into their OMG twooo LUUUUUUVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV view of a partnership. (Which is batshit crazy in most cases, anyway.)

But I am a romantic. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging the practical truths inherent in your partnership. It doesn't mean you can't live as romantic a partnership.

And while I appreciate the retrospect from Britwitch (you sweetheart) and FishTales (who I am fond of reading on here), it's just that. A retrospect. It's spoken after they've already hammered out things with their partnership to where those issues, while major, are settled.

 

[Light Ice]

I keep trying to get out of debt and restore my credit but...Debt seems to not want to let go. It seems to enlist friends and family of mine to help it out...

It helps if you get a job.

Just sayin'.

It also helps if you stop spending money you haven't earned.

Just sayin'.

 

[Mav Unlimited]

This thread has been fun to read.

It's amazing how the topic of money strikes a nerve with almost anyone. And combine it with relationships and you've got yourself good entertainment.

 

[The_Spectre]

This thread has been fun to read.

It's amazing how the topic of money strikes a nerve with almost anyone. And combine it with relationships and you've got yourself good entertainment.

Yeah, I remember reading one thread about Whether or not your significant other know that you go on this site and whether it was some for of cheating. Good read.

edit: wait is was online relationships.

 

[Vail_Indigo]

This statement:
"It's only "not important" because you've already arranged to have your needs met and your lifestyle sustained. It's "not important" because you've already worked through the need to have it and the practical means of how much to have."
Applies to EVERYTHING
Everything is important if its an issue that you haven't worked through.
Or, in a sense, you are saying that money is important, unless it isn't.

BTW, when I say money isn't important, I am speaking strictly for myself. Actually, that also applies to everything in relationships. Theya re individual things that each person/pair has to work out on their own.

Money, and the vast things that it represents, is up there with love, respect, trust, and communication. It becomes a vital part of any partnership. How you make it, how much of it you make, and what you do with it are characteristics that determine so much of your lifestyle that it can either make you or break you as an attractive partner to some.

The actual amount of it you have, or that you make, is still critically important depending on what kind of lifestyle you live with your partner.

The idea that it isn't "very important, really" is bunk. It's extraordinarily easy for people who live comfortably to say that and incredibly misleading.

"We're both comfortable, we both work about the same and it suits our lifestyle, so money isn't very important."

It's only "not important" because you've already arranged to have your needs met and your lifestyle sustained. It's "not important" because you've already worked through the need to have it and the practical means of how much to have.

If that was to change, if your lifestyle wasn't secure, it'd be more present in your mind.

Think, for a second, that your partner spent wildly more than what you earned as a partnership. Think, for a second, that they chose not to hold up their end for a reason you couldn't reconcile with yourself. Think, for a second, that your aspirations for life extended beyond their own and you couldn't reconcile the two between one another.

Money is critically important.

For me, admittedly, it's more so.

I grew up poor. Not low-middle class poor. Really poor. Having enough of it to travel, to buy toys, and to play became a life goal. I've worked extraordinarily hard to get to a place where it isn't a concern. I don't stress about bills. I don't stress about buying a new phone. It makes me happy. In many ways, really, laceandcogs have a story that's similar in that regard.

But if my partner didn't have that same desire? If she spent more than we could afford and wasted it? If she didn't support me in my desire to obtain more wealth for us?

Deal breaker. Period. Our lifestyles are too different, I wouldn't feel supported in the way I lived, and it simply couldn't work.

The romantics ignore this, obviously. It doesn't fall into their OMG twooo LUUUUUUVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV view of a partnership. (Which is batshit crazy in most cases, anyway.)

But I am a romantic. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging the practical truths inherent in your partnership. It doesn't mean you can't live as romantic a partnership.

And while I appreciate the retrospect from Britwitch (you sweetheart) and FishTales (who I am fond of reading on here), it's just that. A retrospect. It's spoken after they've already hammered out things with their partnership to where those issues, while major, are settled.

 

[Light Ice]

Vail, I was stating that the issues were still important. Just not in the retrospective - because to the pair involved they were solved and not immediately an issue. Whether or not an issue is solved, or not, it can still be important. That's the line of logic I was following.

 

[Vail_Indigo]

Vail, I was stating that the issues were still important. Just not in the retrospective - because to the pair involved they were solved and not immediately an issue. Whether or not an issue is solved, or not, it can still be important. That's the line of logic I was following.

Oh, I didn't say that it couldn't be important.
In fact, I'm a big proponent of having as practical a view of relationships as romantic.
I'm just saying that money isn't necessarily one of them.
It is for some, not for others.

 

[Light Ice]

Oh, I didn't say that it couldn't be important.
In fact, I'm a big proponent of having as practical a view of relationships as romantic.
I'm just saying that money isn't necessarily one of them.
It is for some, not for others.

Well, I don't believe that it isn't an issue for you.


But I'm an asshole for saying it.

 

[Vail_Indigo]

Well, I don't believe that it isn't an issue for you.


But I'm an asshole for saying it.

I don't think your an asshole for saying it, I just think you are showing that you have a limited ability to see these things from other perspectives.

 

[Light Ice]

I don't think your an asshole for saying it, I just think you are showing that you have a limited ability to see these things from other perspectives.

I'd consider that part of the definition of an asshole. I come by it honestly. It doesn't make me more affable for it. It's like know-it-all disease perpetually hung in the critical stages.

 

[Vail_Indigo]

I'd consider that part of the definition of an asshole. I come by it honestly. It doesn't make me more affable for it. It's like know-it-all disease perpetually hung in the critical stages.

OK, whatever, call it what you want.

 

[Light Ice]

OK, whatever, call it what you want.

I was hoping for a more entertaining response, Vail.

 

[Vail_Indigo]

I was hoping for a more entertaining response, Vail.

sorry to disappoint

 

[Britwitch]

It's only "not important" because you've already arranged to have your needs met and your lifestyle sustained. It's "not important" because you've already worked through the need to have it and the practical means of how much to have.

If that was to change, if your lifestyle wasn't secure, it'd be more present in your mind.

Think, for a second, that your partner spent wildly more than what you earned as a partnership. Think, for a second, that they chose not to hold up their end for a reason you couldn't reconcile with yourself. Think, for a second, that your aspirations for life extended beyond their own and you couldn't reconcile the two between one another.

Money is critically important.

.....

But I am a romantic. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging the practical truths inherent in your partnership. It doesn't mean you can't live as romantic a partnership.

And while I appreciate the retrospect from Britwitch (you sweetheart) and FishTales (who I am fond of reading on here), it's just that. A retrospect. It's spoken after they've already hammered out things with their partnership to where those issues, while major, are settled.

Oh you
But I just want to add a couple of things...

I have to agree, those who think 'love is all you need' aren't just unrealistic, they are seriously stupid. Love helps, when money gets tight - love helps, if a partner loses their job - love helps, when the shit hits the preverbial fan - love helps, but it won't pay bills. Hard work pays bills but having someone love you and support you makes that task easier when everything else is falling apart. Love means helping them find a new job, not saying 'oh it's ok darling' and letting them wallow. Loves means being honest with each other, even when it hurts.

And while I agree if Mr Brit suddenly started frittering our money away then yes, I would have to question the relationship but the main point would be not the money, for me at least, it would be why he'd changed. It would be that element which could well end the relationship. Yes, it might have been instigated by money but I can earn more of that, it would be that the man I fell in love with had changed in ways that meant I no longer knew who he was.

Will stop rambling now, it's early and I've not been up long...this post may well not make sense either

 

[DarkWarrioress]

You make perfect sense, Brit.

Oh you
But I just want to add a couple of things...

I have to agree, those who think 'love is all you need' aren't just unrealistic, they are seriously stupid. Love helps, when money gets tight - love helps, if a partner loses their job - love helps, when the shit hits the preverbial fan - love helps, but it won't pay bills. Hard work pays bills but having someone love you and support you makes that task easier when everything else is falling apart. Love means helping them find a new job, not saying 'oh it's ok darling' and letting them wallow. Loves means being honest with each other, even when it hurts.

And while I agree if Mr Brit suddenly started frittering our money away then yes, I would have to question the relationship but the main point would be not the money, for me at least, it would be why he'd changed. It would be that element which could well end the relationship. Yes, it might have been instigated by money but I can earn more of that, it would be that the man I fell in love with had changed in ways that meant I no longer knew who he was.

Will stop rambling now, it's early and I've not been up long...this post may well not make sense either

 

[Light Ice]

And even if you didn't, you're pretty. Pretty always wins.


(And you did.)