Kansas Court Upholds 17-Year Prison Sentence of Bisexual

[thechairmanh2k]

flabbergasted would be a good word to describe my feeling at this moment. i hope to bagels the aclu or someone can do something for this kid. justice system my ass.

 

[killallhippies]

Actually, I gotta disagree. First and foremost - I suggest you vote LIBERTARIAN or "independent".

That being said, how many G/L/B/Ts are fiscally prudent but socially liberal?? MANY, but the democrats have the G/L/B/T vote wrapped up because of perceptions. How many G/L/B/Ts are members of The Log Cabin Republicans ??

Moreover, the next time some "newbie" candidate is being grilled by the G/L/B/T group in, oh lets say FLORIDA, don't get hung up on the "CHOICE" question. If you are a G/L/B/T - you ain't gonna be needing to worry about having an abortion because your redneck loser boyfriend knocked you up!!!!

AND - if you are G/L/B/T and choose to have an offspring, then you aren't looking for an abortion anyway - right??!!!

this post makes me want to hurt people. besides i'm not voting libertarian until they pull their heads out of their asses when it comes to corporations. those are some niave motherfuckers.

 

[CuriousNiceGuy]

Uuuum...what's with the attack against Wolf Of Mibu?..
He just said his opinion..
I think that rape is rape and it is a gross,despicable,sick crime.
BUT, even though I think that, I kinda agree with wolf of mibu about the feelings.
-Let's say a woman is raped by a man.
She will feel sick, not want to be around people for a long time, and such actions that a raped person would do.
It will take some time, but considering that she is not weak-willed, she will start to get over it.
-Let's say a straight man is raped by a man.
He'll feel sick, not want to be around people for a long time, and such actions that a raped person would do.BUT here, we have a more emotional approach as the sexuality factor has a much heavier effect on him.
Except for the shame of beng raped, he will also begin thinking of the rape by a MAN. How will his friends react. How will he be able to see them? What if he is gay? Does being raped put such labels on you?
(If you think there's much difference you can change genders/sexuality in this example.It's only an example after all..)

I think that was what wolf of Mibu was trying to say.
To me, gender or sexuality doesn't have much meaning (I'm bi after all..).
Rape is rape, but what trully affects the emotional condition of a raped person is his character and social environment.

Btw, it's not nice verbally attacking people who just say their opinion, even if it IS bullshit.

 

[killallhippies]

nice is boring.

 

[CuriousNiceGuy]

Sarcasm is a good way of attacking someone without making an issue.
*hurray's for sarcasm*
But in this thread the only stupid post was that about voting libertarians or whatever they are called.Totally useless..
And btw..
- Nice isn't boring. It's rare

 

[none2_none2]

Uuuum...what's with the attack against Wolf Of Mibu?..
He just said his opinion..
I think that rape is rape and it is a gross,despicable,sick crime.
BUT, even though I think that, I kinda agree with wolf of mibu about the feelings.
-Let's say a woman is raped by a man.
She will feel sick, not want to be around people for a long time, and such actions that a raped person would do.
It will take some time, but considering that she is not weak-willed, she will start to get over it.
-Let's say a straight man is raped by a man.
He'll feel sick, not want to be around people for a long time, and such actions that a raped person would do.BUT here, we have a more emotional approach as the sexuality factor has a much heavier effect on him.
Except for the shame of beng raped, he will also begin thinking of the rape by a MAN. How will his friends react. How will he be able to see them? What if he is gay? Does being raped put such labels on you?
(If you think there's much difference you can change genders/sexuality in this example.It's only an example after all..)

I think that was what wolf of Mibu was trying to say.
To me, gender or sexuality doesn't have much meaning (I'm bi after all..).
Rape is rape, but what trully affects the emotional condition of a raped person is his character and social environment.

Btw, it's not nice verbally attacking people who just say their opinion, even if it IS bullshit.

I guess you just don't get it either. He was outright wanting a double standard in the laws. There is NO justifcation for a double standard. As I stated before, if you do that, then why not the response? If it is such a more horrible thing for a man (especially straight) to get raped, then why wouldn't the victime be justified to kill the perpetrator after the act or even before as a preventitive measure of this most "unthinkable" crime. That logic has been the justification for crimes against gay men in the past -- including murder. It's more than bullshit, its deadly.


As I stated before there is a reason the statue of justice is blind and has weighing scales. Sure it isn't always perfect, but that is what we hope they are aiming for.

 

[CuriousNiceGuy]

Just wait a minute...Did anywhere in my post even exist a phrase that the laws should change?Or that laws should be different for each sexuality?
Don't go overreacting on me...
If you wanna make a ruckus about it, do so, but do not put words I haven't said in my mouth.I was just saying my opinion.
For me, rape is as bad a crime to deal with for a woman, as it is for a man.
I just think that emotionally, a straight man being raped is worse than a woman being raped.(NOTE that I'm talking about a specific occasion.A rape of a straight man by another man..)
Laws are good, but they don't always apply to every situation.
Justice may be blind, sure , but people aren't. It's good talking about justice and all, but in real life, injustice is just as common as justice..

And even if wolf of mibu thinks that there should be different justice for homosexual and heterosexual rapes, it's just his opinion.
Don't go wrecking everything just by hearing another person's opinion.
If you can't contain yourself by reading such comments that actually have a logic, then I don't get how you would be able to make a conversation with a person that doesn't even have proper reasoning.
Your points are good, but your reaction isn't.
Sure everyone gets mad over absurd things, but when you hear mere opinions of what someone thinks you shouldn't go offboard.

If it makes you feel better, I don't share wolf of mibu's opinion about the laws, I just agree at some level with his thoughts of the emotional condition of the rape victim.. -_-'

 

[none2_none2]

Just wait a minute...Did anywhere in my post even exist a phrase that the laws should change?Or that laws should be different for each sexuality?
Don't go overreacting on me...
If you wanna make a ruckus about it, do so, but do not put words I haven't said in my mouth.I was just saying my opinion.
For me, rape is as bad a crime to deal with for a woman, as it is for a man.
I just think that emotionally, a straight man being raped is worse than a woman being raped.(NOTE that I'm talking about a specific occasion.A rape of a straight man by another man..)
Laws are good, but they don't always apply to every situation.
Justice may be blind, sure , but people aren't. It's good talking about justice and all, but in real life, injustice is just as common as justice..

And even if wolf of mibu thinks that there should be different justice for homosexual and heterosexual rapes, it's just his opinion.
Don't go wrecking everything just by hearing another person's opinion.
If you can't contain yourself by reading such comments that actually have a logic, then I don't get how you would be able to make a conversation with a person that doesn't even have proper reasoning.
Your points are good, but your reaction isn't.
Sure everyone gets mad over absurd things, but when you hear mere opinions of what someone thinks you shouldn't go offboard.

If it makes you feel better, I don't share wolf of mibu's opinion about the laws, I just agree at some level with his thoughts of the emotional condition of the rape victim.. -_-'

So because I also dissagree with you, I'm overreacting? First of all, I never did say that you wanted to change the laws? I was disagreeing with what he originally stated:

"Cases involving statutory rape should not discriminate like this, however I believe that cases of violent rape should."

If you don't understand how dangerous such a statement is, then you still do not get it. Have you ever known people who was violently raped? Have you ever listened to some people tell there story?

Just because there are injustices in the world doesn't mean one should just accept it. There is no logic to either of your arguments as to whom can or cannot handle rape better emotionally. It is purely conjecture. You cannot really know how a rape victim feels unless you were in each and every one of their heads.

For myself, I know I wouldn't want to be raped period -- by anybody. That isn't because I'm gay, straight, bi, asexual, or whatever. I wouldn't not have a harder time if it was a woman, nor an easier time of it was a guy. I also wouldn't claim to have a worse time of it because I'm a top vs if I were a bottom. I think what would really go into my head is will the person get locked up so that it won't happen to me or someone else again. I'd also probably have to admit that I would want to strike back. I also know that if I found out that a judge or a jury member tried to let the guy off on a lighter sentence because somehow I can cope better since I'm into guys anyway, I'd want to strangle that judge or jurist. I also know if I was the victim of a gay bashing, I'd be really pissed if they got off easy because a judge or jury felt they were protecting their straightness. That they claimed I somehow tried to get it on with them, and that such an act on my part was so emotionally foreign and repuslives to their fragil straightness that they "fought" off such an advance.


The bottom line is rape is wrong period. There are no "BUT's"... about it. It is usually about control -- not usually about sex or sexuality. Most people probably do not want their control taken away from them against their will. Add to that sometimes during a rape a knife is pulled, gun is pulled, or extreme physical abuse is involved. Meaning your very life may be at risk. Should any of us even ponder who handles it better? If someone is having problems with rape, they need all the support they can get -- not someone pondering who should be affected more or less. It would only make it worse to ponder that it is worse because they were straight male/lesbian or make less of it because they were a straight female/gay male.

Would you want someone on a jury or a judge to think about whether a rape is worse for a prostitute, vs a housewife, vs a nun?

Would you want such a person judging whether a rape was worse if the perpetrator was nice looking vs unattractive?

If a man of color raped a white woman who would never have gone for interracial sex, should he get a harsher sentence than if he raped a white woman who had dated men of color or if he raped a woman of color?

You can see we can all come up with situations where it would be easy to conjecture who handles it better or worse. The fact is that a crime has happened, and we cannot change that for the victim. We can only hope that they will get whatever help they need -- regardless of their gender or sexuality or whatever, They need the peace of mind that the perpetrator will be adequately punished so that this won't happen again to someone else, and that this person cannot repeat this crime on them.

Believing that one group handles things worse than others does negatively impact justice even if the laws are fine:

1) It can lead to future laws that do promote a double standard; plus

2) We want judges and members of the jury to put aside their prejudices and look at the facts and judge based on the crime that was committed. How can one expect justice if such double standard attitudes make it on the bench or the jury? Would we want people on our juries who really thought rape of a straight man was so much worse? Justice would not to be served. If that jurist really thought homosexual sex is so much more emotionally terrifying to a straight man, then that jurist might conclude that doing anything to avoid such an event from happening could be justfied. That is the kind of defence originally used by the guys that killed Mathew Shepard. The straight man's delima about unwanted homosexual desires from other guys was the defense used by a guest on the Jenny Jones who committed murder. He came on one of her show about "secret admirers", and his turned out to be a guy. He was so embarassed about this being on TV, that a few weeks later he killed the guy.

Finally, you can see such attitudes propagated even in Bible teachings. There are two stories in the old testimate about potential homosexual rape. In one story a daughter is offered, in the other a concubine. So both stories tell that its ok to turn over a woman to be raped, if it prevents a guy from being raped. I'm am NOT defending homosexual rape, but such teachings just propagates the "unthinkableness" of a guy getting raped and that somehow it isn't quite as bad for a woman -- even if it leads to her death. It is purely homophobic and sexist.

 

[CuriousNiceGuy]

No, I don't know anyone who has been raped, but a teacher had once told in classroom a story of a rape victim, REALLY terrifying.(A girl ended up losing conciousness in the middle of it and the teacher stopped..).
I'm sure that rape is as inhumane as it sounds, and we all want justice.
It's not that dangerous to have an opinion like wolf of mibu's..
Someone would say 'He raped her?DEATH TO HIM!'.
That doesn't mean that it will pass on as a law..

When I say don't overreact I mean about your reaction against people that have the opinion that there should be double standards..
I'm not of that opinion, and I don't find it unbelievable that a man feels worse being raped. BUT I am not saying that there should be different sentence for each gender, or sexuality. I'm just saying that the man being raped may have more(as in 'amount') negative emotions than a woman.
In the end it doesn't matter who got raped by whom, but like you said, that the victim gets all the love and understanding it can from his/her close environment.

Sorry about misunderstanding some of your words.
And about me telling you to chill out:
It's just that while reading each of your posts I feel like you are yelling at us..
I wouldn't want to be next to you if someone said:'Of course there should be heavier sentence for a homosexual!'
Cause I'm quite sure you'd become actively violent

 

[Wolfman1982]

People wake up ! ! ! the bloody thing is a young man who is 19 years old got a bloody 17 years sentence to suck a cock on a 14 year old "boy" who liked it.

In Denmark , and thank God I live in my lovely little, but sick and fucked up country. I love my country BTW.

The person who has had his cock sucked by a 19 year old person and liked it. would have been a laughing stock in the Danish court . since both the "boy" who was almost 15 (I am using a fictional Danish 14 year old as a perspective example). would still have been a laughing stock. Since the legal age in Denmark, "where you can sleep with everybody" and also get in jail is 15.

but younger than the above is called "you have sex with a minor" and punished by that. And then we have the awful pedophile cases , and that is another matter.

So if I at 19 gave a person who was 14 and 360 days old a blowjob. and he liked it. And later on he went to court. And he did not have the best of the best lawyer then he would have been a laughing stock.

But the statuary rape thing is something you can abuse, and USA has abused it a lot. I even remember an Opera Winfrey case about where a young black man was convicted of statuary rape. and a big motherfucking bunch of other stuff in it. Or was it in 60 minutes ? I can´t remember.

 

[CuriousNiceGuy]

Uuum..I think everyone pretty much agrees that the sentence was VERY unfair.Ridiculous I can say.

I don't see anyone sleeping..

 

[symbolicflame]

(Topeka, Kansas) Matthew Limon, the gay man at the center of a Kansas law struck down by the state Supreme Court, was freed late Thursday night, but his ordeal may not be over.

The law had provided for tougher sentences for people convicted of gay sex than those provided for heterosexual sex.

During a sentencing hear Thursday afternoon - at which Limon was in orange prison clothes and shackled - the state indicated it may take the case to the US Supreme Court or file new charges.

Under Kansas law the attorney general has 30 days to decide whether to pursue the case against Limon.

When Limon's attorney was unable to immediately assure Miami County District Judge Richard Smith that he could arrange for Limon to be monitored by a qualified agency the judge ordered Limon to remain behind bars until the state made its decision. (story)

Late Thursday night attorney Byron Cerrillo had completed the arrangements and Smith ordered Limon's release but under strict regulations.

He is to stay with an aunt and uncle and must work on their farm.

If the state decides not to appeal or if no new charges are filed Limon could be freed from supervision, but if it decides to carry on the case Limon could be forced to return to jail or to post a bond.

Limon was convicted in 2000 of having sex at age 18 with a 14-year-old boy when both were residents of a Paola group home for the developmentally disabled.

Limon was sentenced to more than 17 years in prison for violating the state's anti-sodomy law, having two similar offenses on his juvenile record.

If the other teen had been a female Limon would have been charged the lesser offense of unlawful sexual relations, for which his maximum sentence would have been one year and three months in prison.

In a unanimous decision last month the state Supreme Court overturned a lower court ruling that had said the state could justify the harsher punishment as protecting children's traditional development, fighting disease or strengthening traditional values. (story)

The Supreme Court justices discounted arguments from Kansas Attorney General Phill Kline who said that the state's sodomy law must be maintained to stop gay marriage, incest, and sex with children. (story)

Kline accused the ACLU which presents Limon, of attempting to undermine the morality of Kansas citizens.

He said the ACLU's position was that all people, no matter their sexual orientation, were protected from discrimination. Kline said that would lead to the legalization of same-sex marriage -- as well as marriages with multiple partners, incestuous marriages and bestiality.

©365Gay.com 2005

 

[geo8x6]

Remind me never to go to Kansas. I want to be able to suck cock and eat pussy without fear of jail time. Now, I wouldn't go looking for a underage male teen for a blowjob, but I remember when I was 15 and horny as hell. I ate pussy, sucked cock, got fucked and fucked ass so much I would have gotten 1000 years if I was in some backwoods place like Kansas.

 

[sweetwetslut]

Holy mother of god. I mean okay I can see the unlawful sexual relations charge, but oh my fucking God.

 

[intruderrider3]

Holy mother of god. I mean okay I can see the unlawful sexual relations charge, but oh my fucking God.

hello

 

[Joe Schmoe]

As an exKansan I was floored reading this.

It is nothing less than absurd.

 

[none2_none2]

No, I don't know anyone who has been raped, but a teacher had once told in classroom a story of a rape victim, REALLY terrifying.(A girl ended up losing conciousness in the middle of it and the teacher stopped..).
I'm sure that rape is as inhumane as it sounds, and we all want justice.
It's not that dangerous to have an opinion like wolf of mibu's..
Someone would say 'He raped her?DEATH TO HIM!'.
That doesn't mean that it will pass on as a law..

When I say don't overreact I mean about your reaction against people that have the opinion that there should be double standards..
I'm not of that opinion, and I don't find it unbelievable that a man feels worse being raped. BUT I am not saying that there should be different sentence for each gender, or sexuality. I'm just saying that the man being raped may have more(as in 'amount') negative emotions than a woman.
In the end it doesn't matter who got raped by whom, but like you said, that the victim gets all the love and understanding it can from his/her close environment.

Sorry about misunderstanding some of your words.
And about me telling you to chill out:
It's just that while reading each of your posts I feel like you are yelling at us..
I wouldn't want to be next to you if someone said:'Of course there should be heavier sentence for a homosexual!'
Cause I'm quite sure you'd become actively violent

Most injustices in our world started with "ideas". The problem was no one stood up to such ideas BEFORE they took hold.

For instance, Nazi Germany didn't start with one day with one madman saying lets kill Jews and other undesirables. Antisemitism against jews exists in European cultures going back centuries. I was listening to the History Channel about the 1st plage of 1348. Many Europeans blamed the jews. They belived that the jews were poisening the wells. It was so bad that in "Strasbourg, 900 out of 1,884 Jews were burned after being led into a house where on the way they were stripped of nearly all their clothing." Even Martin Luther had antisemitism in his writings. Not to single out Protestants, it was just within the last 40 or so years that the Catholic doctrine changed to take away the idea that jews as a group were responsible for Jesus' death. So while what Hitler did was inexcusable, it is hardly unthinkable that it happened given the attitudes that had existed for so long. Had his ideas been so out in left field with society's attitudes, the holocaust never would have happened. It took many people's participation or even their passive acceptance for this to happen.

In such a culture, I would think that if a jew raped a non-jew that:
1) The jew got a stiffer punishment either by written laws, or the masses attitudes about it.
2) The person who got raped by a jew, had a tougher time dealing with it as it was considered such an unthinkable act -- especially if done against a good "christian".

In our culture, you could probably substitute the word "black" for jew in parts of our country with the same result. In our west you could probably substitute the word "indian" for jew.

So while a double standard opinion sounds mild, just keep in mind that most grievous actions started with a written/spoken idea that went unchallanged.


As to my violence factor... Actually I wouldn't react at all in person, I'd just put up with that kind of attitudes. Perhaps part of that is because I don't wish to be out. It isn't just from fear of harm to my person. It's more because as someone who passes (or thinks passes), you are perceived as different once they know. Then it's the "us" vs "them". Passing allows you to know what people really think. When they know you are one of "them" (not "us"), then they wait until the "them" are out of the room before talking freely.

For instance, years ago I got into a discussion about religion with my co-workers and the owners of the small company I worked for. They didn't really understand why Muslems don't like Americans/Christians. Their logic was that our core values are the same -- one God, pro-family, and against evil things such as "homosexuality". Then they got off on homosexuality and how it was the true evil. They talked about how AIDS was probably just one of many deseases that homo's have. After all, none of them had ever heard of an "old", "healthy", homosexual. They must die off early from all the deseases they must carry from their vile sexual practices. One owner told how there was some fag who tried to come on to his Dad during WWII by sneeking into his pup tent while he was sleeping and trying to force his Dad to accept a blow job. Luckily, his Dad found his flashlight and was able to bash him over the head till he crawled away. (I should mention that they didn't have a problem with lesbianism per se. Most of them though it was either due to a woman being raped and scared of men, or from a woman who wants to get her husband/bf all excited.)

Would these guys have had a rough time if they had been raped by a homosexual? You bet, but not because they were men, but rather because they were so bigoted against homosexulality that they had made it an abomination on this earth.

Yes I can get pissed, but I keep it inside in public. Added to the anger on this topic is the fact that if this double standard had split humans besides by gender/preference, others would have answered and been outraged. If he had singled out a race, religion, etc., then many people would have been up in arms; but because it is gender/gender preference it is tolerated. Its this same attitude which allows states like Kansas to ban same sex marriage by over 70%.

As to victimes of rape, I've known several people who have shared their stories.
One was an elderly guy who was raped by some uncles on multiple occasions, he was like 3-5 years old. When this was happening he wasn't thinking about his masculinity, he was just a terrified child. It was a horrible thing to do -- especially to a child -- regardless of gender.

I also remember a "reformed" rapist who had done his time after he got caught the last time breaking into some lady's trailer to raper her. He admitted it was wrong, but he still had the attutide. "It was wrong, BUT...." This "BUT" tells me in his head, he didn't think it was that big a deal. He said how unfair it was that he had to go to prison for a few years as it was cruel and unusual punishment for him since he is straight. I may prefer guys, but that doesn't mean I would get excited at the thought of going to jail. It would be as stupid a comment as saying how it must be hot for straight male nurses to work in a nursing home since the ratio of women to men is so much higher.

I also remember a middle aged straight guy who hated homosexuals because some clergy had fondled him when he was a teenager. He basically demanded everybody to give him more sympathy because of the same sex twist. However, several of us heard stories many that were much worse (both male/male and female/male), so most didn't buy into it.

I do believe that people deal with problems differently, but it's because their uniqueness. To single out that its harder for a straight guy to deal with rape is just a value judgement. Given that a good segment of boys mess around before they grow up -- some growing up to be gay & most growing up to be perfectly straight; I find it hard to believe that a str8 guy raped by a guy is going to have the most problems just because he is str8 and male.

I remember a TV interview after the 1st Persian Gulf war. A news show was discussing women in combat, and whether our society was prepared to handle dealing with women POW's. They interviewed a woman who had been captured AND raped. She didn't like it at all, but she was still proud to be in the US military. She was coping, because who she was -- not because she was a woman. They also interviewed a military man who also had been captured along side her. He was pulling the he-man crap about how he would have committed suicide before he let himself get raped. Yeh, right. He has been trained to kill others. He has has been through training to deal with capture and tourture. There are all sorts of things done to tourture people some that can disfigure you for life, some that might even kill you. Yet I'm supposed to believe this guy could have handled all of this torture, but if another man's penis came near him, he'd have to commit suicide? Sorry, no sane person would buy it.

 

[CuriousNiceGuy]

Hmm..The only thing I can say after that post of yours is:
'Good post, I'm speechless.'

I guess you are right in many things, and I agree with you with probably everything you have said.. :redface:

 

[DarKirby]

none2_none2, thank you for reminding me that we are capable of rational substantiation of our views even when we're unbelievably pissed off.
Curiousniceguy, I believe there is no reason to "quantify" the negative emotions different groups of people feel. If a straight man can really wallow in how female rape victims don't understand and how much worse it is for him because he's not attracted to men, I don't think he's really experienced the trauma that comes with rape. Plus women who are raped often lose trust in men. They might never get married or even have a decent relationship because they just can't get over that terror. But it seems like you're trying to tell us that a straight man feels "more" negative emotions?
I guess I'm just kinda confused by what you said, and then I started ranting. Sorry about that. But that's just my view on women being raped against straight men being raped. Straight men can sexually recover because sex with a woman won't bring back images of that terrifying experience, while it seems like a women who was raped would have a much more difficult time because she might remember the experience whenever she started to do something sexual with a man.

 

[Elmer Keith]

You were on a roll, right up 'til the end.

 

[nihil0002]

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

 

[Wolfman1982]

Jesus Motherfucking Christ, the poor kid is still getting 22 years, because of a fucking consensual blowjob ?

This fucking insane ! ! ! and it is called the land of the free ? yeah right !