Lazy dom / smartass sub

[graceanne]

Master??

Oh for pete sakes. The sub of innocent looks just doesn't sound right . . . and frankly no one makes innocent eyes like you.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Oh for pete sakes. The sub of innocent looks just doesn't sound right . . . and frankly no one makes innocent eyes like you.

 

[raven2]

Yes those cat eyes

 

[Kajira Callista]

Yes those cat eyes

 

[raven2]

BTW I love your location. Nietzsche was always very interesting to me.

 

[BeachGurl2]

More good input here. I'm beginning to wonder if it's not that we're a great match in the bedroom but not so great outside. Could be a very good point.

You might need more attention than he wants to give.

Interestingly enough, it's the opposite of this. He demands my attention all the time and gets upset if my mind is otherwise occupied. As soon as I walk in the door from work, he's right there wanting me to drop everything and do stuff with him. So it's more that I need less attention or private time that I'm not getting.

Maybe there is also a difference in emotional attachment. BeachGurl, I'm just assuming here. But I got the impression that you haven't been with this present Dom for very long. I'd imagine that at least for me it would make a huge difference if I was connected with my Dom closely emotionally/mentally to invoke me feeling like Alice described (I snipped that part). But that is just assuming on your feelings, so it might be completely off.

Actually, we've been together for awhile, just not living together 24/7 for very long. Before, we lived 100 miles away, so didn't see each other very often - weekends, usually. Now we are living together temporarily while I look for an apartment and settle into my new town. So the emotional is there and has been for awhile.

I'm thinking here, as in theory thinking and without knowing anything more about any of you that it sounds pretty natural to test your boundaries as a submissive in a newer relationship, and even later on, if limits to your behaviour are not set and enforced. I'm comparing it to raising kids. They will stay up longer than is good for them, eat more chocolate, are annoying brats, if the parents don't manage to keep them in check. Ways to do so might include punishment/threads the parents are willing to act on/teaching before.
Now I do see a difference in the behaviour of the sub, as they are grown-up and better able to decide for themselves, to judge, to do what's right. Still in my theoretical opinion the Dom teaches/trains the sub to their liking. This might only be telling them what to do, and expecting them to do so. Still, if there are no consequences to not obeying, it's human nature to not be doing whatever you should be doing. The whole angel on one shoulder, devil on the other deal.

I think this might be an even better analogy, although I'm not really sure. Still thinking about that one. But I agree that in any new relationship everyone tests boundaries. I've just never had the need to test them to this degree before. So is that my problem or his?

 

[raven2]

More good input here. I'm beginning to wonder if it's not that we're a great match in the bedroom but not so great outside. Could be a very good point.


Interestingly enough, it's the opposite of this. He demands my attention all the time and gets upset if my mind is otherwise occupied. As soon as I walk in the door from work, he's right there wanting me to drop everything and do stuff with him. So it's more that I need less attention or private time that I'm not getting.


Actually, we've been together for awhile, just not living together 24/7 for very long. Before, we lived 100 miles away, so didn't see each other very often - weekends, usually. Now we are living together temporarily while I look for an apartment and settle into my new town. So the emotional is there and has been for awhile.


I think this might be an even better analogy, although I'm not really sure. Still thinking about that one. But I agree that in any new relationship everyone tests boundaries. I've just never had the need to test them to this degree before. So is that my problem or his?

Living with someone 24/7 is always a large strain, esp at the beginning when you are both feeling out your boundries and comfort levels. It almost sounds as if he is a kid in a candy store and continually wants to try things. It could also be that he is concerned about your relationship and wants to reassure himself. There are many possibilities.

 

[pandoravampire]

living together, and not from choice, but more whilst you find yourself a apartment. And then adding 24/7 into the mix and your bound to come up with teathing probs. From my ltd experience, the first 6 months can be titled 'sorting the teathing probs out'.

Im a keen manipulator, and as such, have learnt that i can manipulate him to dominate me by....................................submitting.
But that was after id tried every other bratty and unsuccessful trick i could pull, doh!

Why not try it? it could just work ya know.

 

[catalina_francisco]

The more I read, the more I think a good dose of communication is in order. You say you are 24/7 and yet it seems neither of you want to be in role 24/7, preferring to choose when you each feel like it. Not trying to be mean, but 24/7 is not easy, nor is it living together for convenience and having the occasional scene...it takes a lot more committment and work than that and perhaps it just is not where you both are. I would suggest talking and defining what the relationship is meant to be, what roles you both assume, and when.

Catalina

 

[chris9]

Interestingly enough, it's the opposite of this. He demands my attention all the time and gets upset if my mind is otherwise occupied. As soon as I walk in the door from work, he's right there wanting me to drop everything and do stuff with him. So it's more that I need less attention or private time that I'm not getting.

That's something you need to talk about. It's a difference from long distance/weekend type relationship to living together. Maybe you need to make it clear that you need time for yourself to wind down from work, do stuff alone. Maybe you both could establish a sort of ritual that allows you time for yourself and where he knows it's not for the longest time (showering, a nap, a coffee/tea and newspaper, half an hour online...).
That of course isn't necessary for the weekend relationship where you don't meet that often and don't have 'real' life, work, groceries, problems invading.

Actually, we've been together for awhile, just not living together 24/7 for very long. Before, we lived 100 miles away, so didn't see each other very often - weekends, usually. Now we are living together temporarily while I look for an apartment and settle into my new town. So the emotional is there and has been for awhile.

Then sorry for assuming

I think this might be an even better analogy, although I'm not really sure. Still thinking about that one. But I agree that in any new relationship everyone tests boundaries. I've just never had the need to test them to this degree before. So is that my problem or his?

Both of your problem. It's a relationship, a together of two people. Not one of them can solve problems, but both have to work on it. No need to blame either of you.

 

[foxinsox]

I have yet to find a Dom that doesn't let me wrap him around my finger eventually.

Yup.

Of course, I may have been involved with the wrong Doms, or perhaps I just wasn't very submissive after all.

But the truth is, I've met larger numbers of old fashioned, somewhat controlling 'nilla men who do not *consciously* embrace D/s than I have, self-proclaimed Doms.

On balance, I've decided to go with kinky, controlling 'nilla.

 

[babiesmiles]

But the truth is, I've met larger numbers of old fashioned, somewhat controlling 'nilla men who do not *consciously* embrace D/s than I have, self-proclaimed Doms.

.

You have a point here. I noticed it as well , but maybe it's just a geographical matter as I live in a country where men still are pretty different and with some peculiar trait .

On here ( South Europe ) lots of old fashioned men, who 'd shudder being called Dominants for all the implications and often stereotypes linked to that , actually are more controlling not even in a bothering way but in the "right" form , than men into the "lifestyle" ( I don'l like that word but haven't found a better one in English yet! ).

Too often Dominants ( I am still talking about the so called "Mediterranean Dom" species ) are too self absorbed in the reading of "The perfect Master Handbook" and counting the tails of their "nine tails cat" to try to really understand whom they are dealing with .

Of course the above was just a generalizing joke with all the limits of the case , but never forget the latin motto "castigat ridendo mores "

PS. I hope the aforementioned kidding didn't annoy our resident Mediterranean Master I appeal to the court's mercy

 

[catalina_francisco]

Of course the above was just a generalizing joke with all the limits of the case , but never forget the latin motto "castigat ridendo mores "

PS. I hope the aforementioned kidding didn't annoy our resident Mediterranean Master I appeal to the court's mercy

LOL, if you mean Don Francisco, he is too busy nursing me...he came home with the flu, I pampered and waited on him, then caught it myself...so he has been a good mix of Dominant, while making sure I rest and have plenty of drinks and food he prepares, as well as wiping my fevered brow and laughing at my misery. Lucky we both think pain and sex are a good way to take my mind off it, even though I am not as entertaining as usual.

Catalina

 

[babiesmiles]

LOL, if you mean Don Francisco, he is too busy nursing me...he came home with the flu, I pampered and waited on him, then caught it myself...so he has been a good mix of Dominant, while making sure I rest and have plenty of drinks and food he prepares, as well as wiping my fevered brow and laughing at my misery. Lucky we both think pain and sex are a good way to take my mind off it, even though I am not as entertaining as usual.

Catalina

My best wishes for a fast recover to both of you from hearth

 

[ketsueki_itami]

My experience as a Master

ok im a little new here so i dont expect to be treated seriously for a while but in my experience like many others i have read about and know there are two types of subs and two types of doms. the first type of sub is of course the total sub she will do anything just because she wants to do it the second needs to be coerced into doing things and has a tendancy to be rebelious. but these two types do not have distinct lines drawn inbetween their personality types most of the time youll get a blend of the two. and the same for doms there is what i saw refered to as the lion tamer type and then the laid back type that expects very little rebelion, and again there is no distinct line in between the types. the types have to harmonize with each other but not over bear each other if the relationship is to work. i hope i made myself clear enough if i didnt just post and ill try to make it a little more understandable from my not so humble point of view.

 

[shy slave]

ok im a little new here so i dont expect to be treated seriously for a while but in my experience like many others i have read about and know there are two types of subs and two types of doms. the first type of sub is of course the total sub she will do anything just because she wants to do it the second needs to be coerced into doing things and has a tendancy to be rebelious. but these two types do not have distinct lines drawn inbetween their personality types most of the time youll get a blend of the two. and the same for doms there is what i saw refered to as the lion tamer type and then the laid back type that expects very little rebelion, and again there is no distinct line in between the types. the types have to harmonize with each other but not over bear each other if the relationship is to work. i hope i made myself clear enough if i didnt just post and ill try to make it a little more understandable from my not so humble point of view.

Small Hijack

Hi Ketsueki_itami,

From what I have seen on the threads here, length of time on the site makes your post no less valid than people who have been here yrs.

I like your point about two types but without distinct lines between the two.

Personally I can be either or both depending on my mood, his mood, the situation etc.

Few people are always steadfastly one type of person.
If they are it can make them narrow in their view of things, which may be ok at times but it can stop the good experiences that happen when they outside of their comfort zone.

 

[graceanne]

Personally I can be either or both depending on my mood, his mood, the situation etc.

Or if cookies are involved.

 

[shy slave]

Or if cookies are involved.

I cant mention cookies anymore

thats yours, BB and DVS's fault

*sob sob*

Still I can buy them, eat them and not offer them to anyone including him. as I can't mention them at all.

Every cloud has a silver lining

And if we are talking about the code word used by you and your sister.

I can have those even when he is not here, thats why I have a vibe.....all I have to do is figure out how to get a vibe to mow the lawn....
Answers on a postcard please lol

 

[graceanne]

I cant mention cookies anymore

thats yours, BB and DVS's fault

*sob sob*

Still I can buy them, eat them and not offer them to anyone including him. as I can't mention them at all.

Every cloud has a silver lining

And if we are talking about the code word used by you and your sister.

I can have those even when he is not here, thats why I have a vibe.....all I have to do is figure out how to get a vibe to mow the lawn....
Answers on a postcard please lol

Um . . . honey? You said the 'c' word at least once. *shakes head* tsk tsk

 

[Marquis]

A book that might shed some light on the topic

 

[ketsueki_itami]

Small Hijack

Hi Ketsueki_itami,

From what I have seen on the threads here, length of time on the site makes your post no less valid than people who have been here yrs.

I like your point about two types but without distinct lines between the two.

Personally I can be either or both depending on my mood, his mood, the situation etc.

Few people are always steadfastly one type of person.
If they are it can make them narrow in their view of things, which may be ok at times but it can stop the good experiences that happen when they outside of their comfort zone.

i know what you mean sometimes i like my girl to be a little rebelious because it gives a change of pace to the relationship she can usually detect when i want her to start acting up a little because i dont interact with her as much as i could and she is starting to develop a keen sense of when she has pushe the rebelion a little too far.......but that could be from her not being able to sit comfortably for a little while lol

 

[Blushing Bottom]

My fault?

How can any of it be my fault? DVS...perhaps but not me shy.

*lowering eyes*

...and besides you knew that you were not supposed to say cookies.

I am glad however that you are allowed to have...you know the code word.

Mow the lawn huh? I'll get back to you on that one.

I cant mention cookies anymore

thats yours, BB and DVS's fault

*sob sob*

Still I can buy them, eat them and not offer them to anyone including him. as I can't mention them at all.

Every cloud has a silver lining

And if we are talking about the code word used by you and your sister.

I can have those even when he is not here, thats why I have a vibe.....all I have to do is figure out how to get a vibe to mow the lawn....
Answers on a postcard please lol

 

[BeachGurl2]

You know, it's always frustrating for me when I see a thread where someone asks a question about something, and the immediate response by several posters is - maybe you're just not PYL/pyl enough. Or maybe he/she just isn't that into you. Basically it's all the same - a bit bitchy and not really very helpful. You see, my Dom and I actually talk about the original subject a lot. Almost everyday, in fact. I posted my question here because I wanted to get a little serious input that might help us move forward with our own discussion. And some people have given me some very helpful things to think about. But frankly, the comments that I'm not submissive enough and should just shut up and submit aren't helpful. What it sounds like you mean when you say that is that I'm not supposed to be happy in my relationship, I'm just supposed to submit. And since my behavior suggests I'm not submitting then I'm just not submissive.

I had a conversation with another poster here awhile back and said I was tired of that kind of posting so I wasn't going to post anymore. But I come here because occasionally someone will post something interesting or thought provoking - there are many people here whom I respect and admire because of their thoughtful postings. I'm guessing my posts aren't very interesting or thought provoking because I seem to get these kinds of responses often. But I'm a masochist, so I guess I just can't stay away. And after you've flamed me for saying that, maybe you'll still read the remainder of my post and actually comment seriously on the part of it that I consider important.

I received a PM from a good friend who disagreed with the responses that I had received so far and offered up his own opinion. He knows me pretty well, and I think that his opinion deserves some consideration not just from me, but from others who have visited this thread. I'd like to hear a serious discussion of his perspective, if it interests others the way it interests me. I'm going to post his thoughts in a quote at the end of my post here, with his permission.

One thing I have noticed from many of the posters here is that everyone talks about the responsibilities of the submissive to her Dom. I rarely see conversations about a Dom's responsibilities to his sub. My friend's post gets to the heart of what he sees as a Dom's responsibilities and how he sees my behavior in reference to that with my Dom. I really hope that this opens up the discussion so that I hear from people who are serious about the topic. (Of course, Gracie can come talk about cookies, too. In fact, I'll even share some of my thin mints if you'd like. I think I might still have a box stashed in the freezer.)

What you describe sounds perfectly understandable to me. You say you never pushed boundaries with previous Doms because you KNEW the punishment would be ‘swift and sure’. Pushing these known limits as you did was playful and something you did for your own benefit as well as his. But never in a non playful way. Now you say your current Dom/BF is ‘lazy’ even by his own admission. Then you get into the whole Top vs. Dom and Bottom vs. Sub discussion.

In my mind, he is more Top than Dom. By his actions. He enjoys the power and the play of a DOM but does not accept the responsibility that comes with being a true Dom. It would appear, he wants the pleasure without putting in the work. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Just not a true Dom in the sense I imagine a Dom.

You see for me, as you and I have discussed, a true Dom is a protector, a provider. Not just a lead. You seem to be looking for confirmation. Your ‘smart ass’ behavior may in fact be your own insecurity lashing out. You are insecure about your relationship with him as a true Sub in need of a real Dom and not a Top. You need to know he will provide for you. For your EVERY need. You are insecure. And you sense this about him. Maybe even subconsciously. So you push, looking for him to confirm that he will protect you. Even from yourself. That is the form of punishment, or more accurately discipline, that you need. The very dominance he seems unwilling to provide. Why? Because it is work. He is lazy. Both of you have identified this. You need to know he will dominate you. When he doesn’t, you push harder. Why? Because you are a sub and you want him to be the one. You have already given yourself to him. You have already committed. And now you are scared he will not provide for you the way you need. If you cannot depend on him to dominate you and provide for you during easy times of pushing back now, how can you ever know, in your heart, that he will be there for you during the hard times? To protect you and comfort you and lead you when you need him the most?

If he were a true Dom in my way of thinking, he would sit you down. Ask you to explain what you need, what you are looking for. What you expect from him. Ideally, he would be in tune enough with you, your feelings and your emotions that he would already know these things but clearly that is not the case here. The bottom line is, your happiness is his responsibility. If you are pushing him, there is a reason why. If he was a strong Dom, he would work to find a way to give you the strong hand and dominance and more importantly, the confidence you need so you would be pleased with him and focus your energies on pleasing him. On submitting to him. Not on pushing back against him in defiance.

You say everything is fine with you and your current Dom when you go out or when you ‘play’. No problems at all there. But when you look to him in real life situations, he is not providing the strength you crave. The strength and conviction you need. He is not giving you the same level of sacrifice that you have offered him. He is giving you the easy part. The fun part. But he is letting you down when you need it the most. You need him for the hard part too. And he is AWOL. Or worse, unwilling. The most disturbing part in what I read is that you have discussed it and he has acknowledged that he is lazy. But no comment about ‘we will work on this together’ or ‘I will try to give you the strength you need’. Just resignation. It is what it is so ‘you better get used to it because I am not even going to try to change’.

So it seems to me you do have a quandary. Do you accept what he does offer you? Are you willing to submit to a weak Dom? Do you back off your real life submissiveness and just role play with him for fun when things go so well and then revert to being independent adults outside of the bedroom/dungeon? This is a decision he has tossed in your lap to make. He has already made his. Take him as a weak Dom or not.

 

[graceanne]

(Of course, Gracie can come talk about cookies, too. In fact, I'll even share some of my thin mints if you'd like. I think I might still have a box stashed in the freezer.)

Yay! Cookie, cookie, cookie!

Beyond that, I didn't say or think you aren't subby enough. I just think you both might need something different. My immediate thought, upon reading your post, was that your dom was hitting low by saying you aren't a sub. I didn't post, mostly cause my immediate resposne wasn't the kind of thing that should be said outloud about another's SO. I don't have anything constructive, really, to suggest. I just don't know you two well enough to say 'well you need to' or 'you should' . . . I think this is one of those things you'll both have to figure out yourself. The only thing I could think to tell you to do is communicate, but it sounds to me like you are. He admits to being lazy, and you admit to being SAMMY. I personally like a good SAM.

 

[Netzach]

You asked how people handle this in their relationships, and especially sought information from the top. This is how I handle it in mine, I am being quite honest.

I am not here to coerce anyone, nag anyone, or beg anyone to submit. I am not here to force my will on people who promised to go out of their way to make me happy in the first place. If someone doesn't respect my authority enough to obey or attempt to obey earnestly, why should they accept my authority if it's reinfoced with some kind of punishment even more?

Responsibilities of a Dom? I feel that love and support and validation, with a huge dose of safety-assurance is my responsibility.

I far too often see any Dominant who actually expects to be pleased, served and obeyed without coddling, headshrinking, and behavioral monitoring to rival laboratory experiments being called lazy in the online communities.

You need to know he will provide for you. For your EVERY need. You are insecure. And you sense this about him. Maybe even subconsciously. So you push, looking for him to confirm that he will protect you. Even from yourself. That is the form of punishment, or more accurately discipline, that you need. The very dominance he seems unwilling to provide. Why? Because it is work. He is lazy. Both of you have identified this. You need to know he will dominate you. When he doesn’t, you push harder. Why? Because you are a sub and you want him to be the one. You have already given yourself to him. You have already committed. And now you are scared he will not provide for you the way you need. If you cannot depend on him to dominate you and provide for you during easy times of pushing back now, how can you ever know, in your heart, that he will be there for you during the hard times? To protect you and comfort you and lead you when you need him the most?

I think he's absolutely right about why you are doing this.

I must ask why you should be let off the hook from sitting your Dominant down and expressing these concerns as communication rather than acting out repeatedly and blaming him?

If this has been communicated between rational and responsible adults, you may well be at an impasse. There are certain levels of submission I don't get from my husband, and I accept that, much as I'd like it to be different.