Line Breaks

[Tzara]

wow I had no idea you could do that!

Very cool code, I will remember this.
Strange thing is I can read your backwards text just fine any I get nauseous trying to read my own.

When I close my eyes and imaging the United States, always Maine is on the left hand side of my mind's eye. I have to consciously flip it over. When I open my eyes, all is how it should be, how I have SEEN the map, but internally, my perception is reversed.

[flipV]Perception. Weird thing.[/flipV]

That's very interesting, anna. I wrote the text and can barely read it, even though I know what I said. I find your desrever text easier to read, as I can recognize the atomic symbols (the letters) and merely have to scan them, back up mentally and re-read them, and go forward.

This skill is learnable, however. Over the years I have gotten quite good at reading letters on superior's desks upside down and backwards while carrying on a conversation about oh, baseball, the weather, politics, France, whatever.

I myself am "dyslexic" (bad word, as in my case it isn't about reading) over symmetrical images. If I glance at a clock (dial clock), I am almost equally likely to see five minutes before seven and five minutes after five. This effect is strongest closest to the vertical. I am astigmatic, so it may have something to do with that, though my glasses are supposed to fix that.

This was bad when I used to play tennis, when I would call serves out (see them as out) when they were, in fact, in.

 

[wildsweetone]

That's very interesting, anna. I wrote the text and can barely read it, even though I know what I said. I find your desrever text easier to read, as I can recognize the atomic symbols (the letters) and merely have to scan them, back up mentally and re-read them, and go forward.

This skill is learnable, however. Over the years I have gotten quite good at reading letters on superior's desks upside down and backwards while carrying on a conversation about oh, baseball, the weather, politics, France, whatever.

I myself am "dyslexic" (bad word, as in my case it isn't about reading) over symmetrical images. If I glance at a clock (dial clock), I am almost equally likely to see five minutes before seven and five minutes after five. This effect is strongest closest to the vertical. I am astigmatic, so it may have something to do with that, though my glasses are supposed to fix that.

This was bad when I used to play tennis, when I would call serves out (see them as out) when they were, in fact, in.

i am astigmatic too and i never ever thought about that being the possible cause of misreading some things i.e. clock faces, thread titles (yes anna, i see the titties thing too), sometimes newspaper headlines etc. how interesting!

 

[Tzara]

I was looking at the book De/Compositions by W.D. Snodgrass (Pulitzer Prize-winning poet and long-time university professor). It's a fascinating book, though not one you can just sit down and read. In it, Snodgrass takes famous poems like Yeats' "Leda and the Swan" and "de/composes" them into a poem that has similar informational content but which has taken away something that made the poem special. I find it very useful for helping me understand word choice and positioning, line breaks, etc.

The reason I put this comment here is because the example from the book that I want to comment on is an excellent example of why line breaks are important. Anyway, here's the original poem, by William Carlos Williams:

As the cat
climbed over
the top of

the jamcloset
first the right
forefoot

carefully
then the hind
stepped down

into the pit of
the empty flowerpot.​

Snodgrass then recomposes that, changing only the line breaks, into

As the cat climbed
over the top
of the jamcloset

first
the right forefoot
carefully

then the hind
stepped down

into the pit
of the empty flowerpot​

Although both of these "look" like poems and the second actually breaks more consistently on "important" words, it completely destroys the image the original conveys of the animal delicately picking its way along. By placing the breaks in the "wrong" place, WCW gives the poem a feeling of uncertainty and awkwardness. Snodgrass next cites another recomposition of the same poem, again not changing the words, but presenting the text punctuated as prose:

As the cat climbed over the top of the jamcloset, first the right forefoot carefully then the hind stepped down into the pit of the empty flowerpot.​

What I find remarkable about this second example is that one of the common criticisms that is made of poems here is that they are "prose with line breaks" and that that isn't poetry. What this shows is that that depends on the poet. WCW's original is "prose with line breaks" that works as a poem precisely because of where the breaks are placed. You change the breaks or take them out and you no longer have a poem—at least you no longer have a good poem.

 

[TheRainMan]

I was looking at the book De/Compositions by W.D. Snodgrass (Pulitzer Prize-winning poet and long-time university professor). It's a fascinating book, though not one you can just sit down and read. In it, Snodgrass takes famous poems like Yeats' "Leda and the Swan" and "de/composes" them into a poem that has similar informational content but which has taken away something that made the poem special. I find it very useful for helping me understand word choice and positioning, line breaks, etc.

The reason I put this comment here is because the example from the book that I want to comment on is an excellent example of why line breaks are important. Anyway, here's the original poem, by William Carlos Williams:

As the cat
climbed over
the top of

the jamcloset
first the right
forefoot

carefully
then the hind
stepped down

into the pit of
the empty flowerpot.​

Snodgrass then recomposes that, changing only the line breaks, into

As the cat climbed
over the top
of the jamcloset

first
the right forefoot
carefully

then the hind
stepped down

into the pit
of the empty flowerpot​

Although both of these "look" like poems and the second actually breaks more consistently on "important" words, it completely destroys the image the original conveys of the animal delicately picking its way along. By placing the breaks in the "wrong" place, WCW gives the poem a feeling of uncertainty and awkwardness. Snodgrass next cites another recomposition of the same poem, again not changing the words, but presenting the text punctuated as prose:

As the cat climbed over the top of the jamcloset, first the right forefoot carefully then the hind stepped down into the pit of the empty flowerpot.​

What I find remarkable about this second example is that one of the common criticisms that is made of poems here is that they are "prose with line breaks" and that that isn't poetry. What this shows is that that depends on the poet. WCW's original is "prose with line breaks" that works as a poem precisely because of where the breaks are placed. You change the breaks or take them out and you no longer have a poem—at least you no longer have a good poem.

this is an exceptional post, T.

and, it shows that an exceptional writer (like Williams) can actually create something special by breaking the rules.

of course, you have to know and understand the rules before you can break them well.

 

[flyguy69]

Another wonderful example is Gwendolyn Brooks' The Pool Players

We real cool. We
Left school. We

Lurk late. We
Strike straight. We

Sing sin. We
Thin gin. We

Jazz June. We
Die soon.

Look what happens to this poem if we endstop it:

We real cool.
We left school.

We lurk late.
We strike straight.

We sing sin.
We thin gin.

We jazz June.
We die soon.

I'm not suggesting that endstopping is particularly poetic, but look at how dramatically the change diminishes the impact of the poem!

 

[wildsweetone]

far out, interesting posts you three! Tzara, i actually visualised the cat stepping down into that flowerpot as i was reading. incredible. and the second version read just as words slung together - no image at all.

way back in the dark ages i spend time writing a poem about a kiss - it's on litland somewhere... anyway, some time during my fiddling made the decision to centre the poem on the page. instantly i realised that not only the words at the end of the line mattered, but also the words at the beginning.

nowadays i concentrate harder on the line end word - obviously it's time to relook at both, and it probably means i will tighten my poetry *sigh* another learning curve.

thank you!

 

[Tzara]

. . .not only the words at the end of the line mattered, but also the words at the beginning. . . .

Fly's example shows this effect very well. Brooks accomplishes, I think, two big things with these line breaks. One is that she changes the emphasis words from subject (we) and object (cool, school, late, straight, sin, gin, June soon) to subject (we) and verb. Read down the left-hand side of the original poem and you get We/Left/Lurk/Strike/Sing/Thin/Jazz/Die, all active verbs (except "we" of course), which in Fly's end-stopped version are "hidden" in the middle of the line.

The other thing that Brooks' line breaks do is tweak the rhythm of the poem. The basic form, as I hear it, is formed of lines of three more or less equally stressed syllables (bam bam bam). In the end-stopped version, the period (full stop) being aligned with the line break leaves a very simple rhythm:

bam bam bam (pause)
bam bam bam (pause)​

When this is altered by the different line breaks, the rhythm is changed by lessening the pause at the end of the line and inserting a caesura in the middle of the line. The way I read this, the trailing "We" is de-emphasized (almost becomes part of the pause at the line break) and the verb/object combo emphasized.

Or something like that.

 

[ishtat]

What you did is more likely a sign of intelligence and creativity. I've worked with very young children, brand new to reading, who do this. I worked with a little girl--not quite five--who is very very smart and wrote everything backwards and then repeated it to me forwards.

If you try writing backwards try it with your wrong hand. For me a left hander normally, that is not too difficult but it is impossible with my usually dominant hand.

 

[flyguy69]

Another wonderful example is Gwendolyn Brooks' The Pool Players



Look what happens to this poem if we endstop it:


I'm not suggesting that endstopping is particularly poetic, but look at how dramatically the change diminishes the impact of the poem!

I just discovered that I have taken this example almost verbatim from Addonizio's and Laux's Poetry Companion (which is so good you should stop reading this and go buy it!). I skimmed through it once a year ago or so, and this example must have wedged itself into my subconscious. While rereading it this weekend I first bristled with indignity-- how dare they steal my ideas!-- then slid into smug gratification-- Kim and Dorianne love me!-- then finally into sheepish humility-- I have slipped into the bedroom of their wonderful book and pawed their chaste thoughts with my lecherous hands.

God it felt good.

 

[Tzara]

Line breaks: The pop quiz

Here's an exercise to try. Take this poem

Fire

Sometimes there would be a fire and I would walk into it and come out unharmed and continue on my way, and for me it was just another thing to have done. As for putting out the fire, I left that to others who would rush into the billowing smoke with brooms and blankets to smother the flames. When they were through they would huddle together to talk of what they had seen—how lucky they were to have witnessed the lusters of heat, the hushing effects of ashes, but even more to have known the fragrance of burning paper, the sounds of words breathing their last.​

by Pulitzer-winning poet Mark Strand, from which I have removed all the line breaks, and put the breaks in where you think they make the most sense. This poem is from his latest book and I couldn't find it online, so if you want to cheat, you'll either have to shell out $25 USD or find a copy in a library.

Have a swell weekend.

 

[Sara Crewe]

Cool idea

and I can't resist. I changed my mind a couple of times but here is my final choice...I think. This is difficult because it's not my poem so I see extra words that in my opinion are not necessary and could be cut which in turn would affect the breaks.

Sometimes there would be a fire
and I would walk into it and come
out unharmed and continue on my way,
and for me it was just another thing to have done.
As for putting out the fire, I left that to others
who would rush into the billowing smoke
with brooms and blankets to smother
the flames. When they were through
they would huddle together to talk
of what they had seen—how lucky
they were to have witnessed the lusters
of heat, the hushing effects of ashes,
but even more to have known the fragrance
of burning paper, the sounds
of words breathing their last.

 

[TheRainMan]

very cool idea. and i don't see any extra words. i like 'em all.


Sometimes there would be a fire
and I would walk into it
and come out unharmed and continue
on my way, and for me
it was just another thing to have done.

As for putting out the fire, I left that
to others who would rush into
the billowing smoke with brooms
and blankets to smother the flames.

When they were through they would huddle
together to talk of what they had seen—
how lucky they were to have witnessed
the lusters of heat, the hushing effects
of ashes, but even more to have known
the fragrance of burning paper,
the sounds of words breathing their last.

 

[Sara Crewe]

very cool idea. and i don't see any extra words. i like 'em all.


Sometimes there would be a fire
and I would walk into it
and come out unharmed and continue
on my way, and for me
it was just another thing to have done.

As for putting out the fire, I left that
to others who would rush into
the billowing smoke with brooms
and blankets to smother the flames.

When they were through they would huddle
together to talk of what they had seen—
how lucky they were to have witnessed
the lusters of heat, the hushing effects
of ashes, but even more to have known
the fragrance of burning paper,
the sounds of words breathing their last.

You just like to disagree with me.

Actually the more I read it, the more I don't like the entire first stanza. I think it would be a stronger piece without it but then, he is famous and I am not.

 

[TheRainMan]

You just like to disagree with me.

Actually the more I read it, the more I don't like the entire first stanza. I think it would be a stronger piece without it but then, he is famous and I am not.

not true ...

the more i read the first stanza, the more i like it.

 

[Sara Crewe]

not true ...

the more i read the first stanza, the more i like it.

I am surprised you didn't say 'love' it.

 

[TheRainMan]

I am surprised you didn't say 'love' it.

give me a few more readings.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Fire

Sometimes there would be a fire
and I would walk into it
and come out unharmed
and continue on my way,
and for me
it was just another thing to have done.

As for putting out the fire,
I left that to others
who would rush into the billowing smoke
with brooms and blankets
to smother the flames.

When they were through
they would huddle together to talk
of what they had seen—how lucky they were
to have witnessed the lusters of heat,
the hushing effects of ashes,
but even more
to have known the fragrance of burning paper,
the sounds of words
breathing their last.

 

[Never]

Sometimes there would be a fire
and I would walk into it
and come out unharmed
and continue on my way,
and for me it was just another thing to have done.

As for putting out the fire, I left that to others
who would rush into the billowing smoke
with brooms and blankets to smother the flames.
When they were through they would huddle together
to talk of what they had seen—
how lucky they were to have witnessed the lusters of heat,
the hushing effects of ashes, but even more to have known the fragrance
of burning paper, the sounds of words breathing their last.

 

[cherries_on_snow]

Sometimes there would be a fire
and I would walk into it and come out
unharmed and continue on my way, and for me
it was just another thing to have done.

As for putting out the fire, I left that to others
who would rush into the billowing smoke
with brooms and blankets to smother the flames.

When they were through they would huddle
together to talk of what they had seen—how lucky
they were to have witnessed the lusters of heat, the hushing effects
of ashes, but even more to have known the fragrance
of burning paper, the sounds
of words breathing their last.

 

[champagne1982]

Sometimes
there would be a fire
and I would walk
into it and come
out unharmed and continue
on my way, and for me
it was just another thing
to have done.

As for putting
out the fire, I left
that to others
who would rush
into the billowing smoke
with brooms and blankets
to smother the flames.

When they were through
they would huddle
together to talk
of what they had seen—
how lucky they were
to have witnessed

the lusters of heat,
the hushing effects
of ashes, but even more
to have known
the fragrance
of burning paper,
the sounds of words
breathing their last.

 

[clutching_calliope]

Fire

Sometimes
there would be a fire
and I would walk into it
and come out unharmed
and continue on my way,

and for me it was just another thing to have done. As for putting out the fire,
I left that to others
who would rush into the billowing smoke
with brooms and blankets
to smother the flames.
When they were through

they would huddle together
to talk of what they had seen—how lucky
they were to have witnessed the lusters of heat, the hushing effects of ashes,
but even more to have known the fragrance
of burning paper, the sounds of words

breathing their last.

 

[Tzara]

Well, that turned out to be even more interesting than I had hoped. I liked reading your different versions and seeing how the different breaks change the reading experience.

Here's Strand's version:

Fire

Sometimes there would be a fire and I would walk into it
and come out unharmed and continue on my way,
and for me it was just another thing to have done.
As for putting out the fire, I left that to others
who would rush into the billowing smoke with brooms
and blankets to smother the flames. When they were through
they would huddle together to talk of what they had seen—
how lucky they were to have witnessed the lusters of heat,
the hushing effects of ashes, but even more to have known the fragrance
of burning paper, the sounds of words breathing their last.​

Quite frankly, I think some of you did a better job.

Thanks, all.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Thank you for the exercise, Tzara. Maybe we should do this more often.

 

[Tzara]

Thank you for the exercise, Tzara. Maybe we should do this more often.

Yeah, I thought it was very interesting. I wondering whether something like that would work for other aspects of a poem. Take some of the words out, for example, and see what people put in their place.

Dunno. I thought it was fun, though.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Yeah, I thought it was very interesting. I wondering whether something like that would work for other aspects of a poem. Take some of the words out, for example, and see what people put in their place.

Dunno. I thought it was fun, though.

I think it would be interesting to do removing line breaks and punctuations simultaneously - it would give more latitude to each person's individual approach.

Removing words might turn it into something more gimmicky, I think, but it should still be fun!