Listen Up! a.k.a. Is there something I'm missing?

[catalina_francisco]

I just wanted to get in here and thank you to Catalina, too. Whenever you make posts, I always read with interest and with respect, even if I don't always agree with them.

In fact, I want to go one step further and thank you, Catalina, for that you gave me a good piece of advice, when I first started out in the BDSM, and in one of my threads, I asked about meeting Doms either online or in real life, and you have made me think twice about rushing into things and I am now glad that I listened to your advice, so I thank you for that!

Wow, did I? Sounds like me but I don't remember it.....happy I could help.

Catalina

 

[TheBlackDahlia]

*nods* I agree, Rose. It is an interesting discussion, and an interesting read.

Thank you to all who have shared a little about their relationships and given their thoughts, I found them really interesting!

(by the way, I know I am not the OP, but I just wanted to say thank you, also!)

That's fine. I like to see people enjoy new discussions.

Looking back, I guess I just wanted a better understanding of bdsm and those involved. I always knew very well that not every relationship is the same, I was directing most of my statements towards my friends. And I know that what I say will have little impact on them, but there are times that I feel I can not rest easy until I've made my point clear in some way.

From what I've seen so far on this site, many of you seem incredibly happy with your positions. And isn't that what we all like to see: people who know what their roles are, know their responsibilities and enjoy doing what they're doing, with no underlying frustration or fear.

I guess what I'd like to know now is how long did it take to completely find your place in this lifestyle, and was it frustrating at first?
(directed towards anyone who wants to answer)

 

[CutieMouse]

*****

 

[TheBlackDahlia]

Find my place, or find my place in a mentally/emotionally healthy manner?

The first I probably knew from a young age (although I didn't know a name for it until my early 30s); the latter... well, I'm going on 3+ years of work on that right now, and don't expect the journey to stop anytime soon. LOL

The latter is what I meant.

 

[catalina_francisco]

That's fine. I like to see people enjoy new discussions.

Looking back, I guess I just wanted a better understanding of bdsm and those involved. I always knew very well that not every relationship is the same, I was directing most of my statements towards my friends. And I know that what I say will have little impact on them, but there are times that I feel I can not rest easy until I've made my point clear in some way.

From what I've seen so far on this site, many of you seem incredibly happy with your positions. And isn't that what we all like to see: people who know what their roles are, know their responsibilities and enjoy doing what they're doing, with no underlying frustration or fear.

I guess what I'd like to know now is how long did it take to completely find your place in this lifestyle, and was it frustrating at first?
(directed towards anyone who wants to answer)

Don't worry too much about people taking things wrong here...it happens, but we are usually a forgiving bunch if and when needed, and questions and delving are nearly always welcome by most.

As to frustration...I have to say I still get my frustrated moments, as does he. Sometimes it is due to other pressures taking our attention away a little, other times it is as petty as moods, sometimes it is about not understanding the other or not listening with an open ear and mind, and sometimes it is about wanting things to move quicker, be easier, or be where they aren't at that particular time. Overall it gets worked out though and best thing is we both know the other is not wanting to go elsewhere no matter how antsy we may be in the moment. I expect it will be an ongoing journey to finding our places as it is fluid like and ever changing, and the frustrations will continue simply because we are human, passionate, and want more than we can ever have I expect.

Catalina

 

[sexycaz22]

I will answer in two parts, like CutieMouse...I love reading her posts by the way....

Anyway....

I guess I first stumbled on my kinky tenancies when I did a roleplay with a guy through a vanilla dating site, and then entered an online D/s relationship with another Dom...not one I would want to do in a hurry again. But at the time, I wasn't sure what I were experiencing (this was 2 years ago) but it was only because I didn't set out to seek advice or meet other people from the BDSM scene, so pretty much that I was on my own, so put it in the back of my mind...until a few months ago, but this time, I did things properly, seeking advice, going to munches etc.

Mentally/emotionally healthily manner - I think I am still exploring and not sure where I am on the BDSM septum, and now I am beginning to think that I might be a switch, although most of the time, I am pretty much a submissive. So, still unsure where I stand at the moment.

Hope that answers your question in some way; TheBlackDahlia

 

[A Desert Rose]

I've always known. It was never some kind of epiphany for me. I never called myself a submissive all along, but I was always like this and because it's how I'm hardwired, it's never been frustrating.

I think that when you find a new partner (Dom, in my case) there is an initial period of learning and exploration that comes with that. And there can be confusion for most people in that period of time. I wouldn't call it frustration. If someone is feeling frustrated then I'd suggest doing more self-exploration and more communication with the partner.

If someone's feeling frustrated that indicates to me, that they aren't really sure what they want or how they are feeling. Frustration is an out-of-control kind of feeling, for me at least. Regarding my sexuality, frustration has never been an issue. Confusion has been.

If you don't know what it is you want or how to go about getting it or what your partner expects of you and you're feeling frustrated by it all, then you need to spend some quiet time and do more soul searching, as well as talking to your partner, if you have one and he's part of the equation. (I've never had a partner who frustrated me... confused me, yes. But then, in my case, that's not hard to do.)

 

[the captians wench]

I guess what I'd like to know now is how long did it take to completely find your place in this lifestyle, and was it frustrating at first?
(directed towards anyone who wants to answer)

You know when I first disovered this stuff I repeatedly said that I liked to please people, I liked playing, but I would never be a submissive and slave wasn't even in my vocabulary. I thought that people who did give that kind of power to another person were setting themselves up for a major fall.

I was involved for 6-8 months before I felt myself wanting to give that power to some one else. I don't think it was a time thing. I think it was that person. I wanted to give him control of every part of my life. I started asking his aproval of my clothes with out him requiring it. I told him about every dollar I spent, every where I went, who I made plans with and what they were. And I started craving giving more, a year after submitting to this person I realized I wanted to be a slave, I wanted to be his slave.

But the logistics of that weren't really ideal. So we agreed to having play mates on the side. And for the most part that worked out. But he had jealousy issues (I think, he still won't admit to it) because of how attached I would get to these guys, I had a bad run in with one assmunch, and including him and I taking a step back a total of 4 break ups this year, which is more than half the people I've ever been involved with.

So I'm back in a spot where I have to decide what I want out of this lifestyle, out of a relationship, out of life in general.

So to answer your question....it's been 3 years and I still don't know for sure, and I'm not sure I ever will. I think that's just life.

 

[HottieMama]

From what I've seen so far on this site, many of you seem incredibly happy with your positions. And isn't that what we all like to see: people who know what their roles are, know their responsibilities and enjoy doing what they're doing, with no underlying frustration or fear.

I guess what I'd like to know now is how long did it take to completely find your place in this lifestyle, and was it frustrating at first?
(directed towards anyone who wants to answer)

i am one of those that is incredibly happy with her position. There is no frustration or fear for me in my current relationship because everything is clearly defined. The rules don't change from day to day and neither do his actions towards me. (This is a big deal for me because previous relationships were exactly the opposite.) i know my place in his life and he knows his place in mine. That's not a variable. In fact, it is the one constant that holds the whole thing together.

As for my place in the "lifestyle," if we are talking about the lifestyle in general...i don't necessarily think i have found my place, but i also do not think that i necessarily need to. i know that i am submissive, as to what degree....Hmmm...i almost want to say that depends on the Dom. i find myself doing things with/for LC that i would not have done with/for any of my previous D/s relationships. i have thought about that and have decided the "why" behind that doesn't really matter to anyone but him and i. What does matter is that we are both happy with each other and with our relationship.

 

[session9]

Thank you so much for responding to my questions. It is greatly appreciated.

I am fighting my own internal struggles with this. Though I know BDSM relationships are for the most part not abusive, I am in one that is not abusive.....I can't get away from the thought in my head that I would not want my daughter or son to be a submissive. At least not until they were 40 lol (the age I was when I first met my Dom). From this mom's point of view it would be almost impossible to see it as anything but abusive. Even though I know better.

I do also recognize that my husband worries about my safety and though he tries to understand he still sees it as an abusive relationship. My sister worries about me also.

Thanks again for yor response, It will help me with conversation with both my husband and sister and my own internal struggles.

You have a very valid point here.... how do you pick up the signs of abuse? Where do you draw the line?

Perhaps I'm just a little too basic and straight forward, but these are my simple thoughts on the topic.
My sub and I have only recently introduced punishment into our relationship (as opposed to just caning/flogging etc for fun) as she felt strongly that she needed help and discipline in a certain area. Now I've always shyed away from punishment for two main reasons:

1) She's an adult & if there's a problem we sit down and discuss it as adults to solve the issue. (I suppose that's very vanilla of me)
2) I've always felt that the 'punishment' aspect of BDSM is the big physical and psychological grey area where abuse can creep in.

So I'm entering into this realm with very shaky hands and taut nerves, but at the same time very flattered that she trusts me enough to venture down this road.

We have, however put down a very hard and fast rule. The minute she feels (or I detect) that she's performing and submitting out of fear of being punished rather than to please or be challenged, then the game is off. I strongly feel that when the fear line is crossed, then you are treading on thin ice and heading for an abusive relationship. I personally do not get off on my sub being afraid of me.
...Like I said... simple guy with simple thoughts.

 

[Homburg]

Thanks. We have our ups and downs, and I often complain we are not practicing D/s anymore only to have it pointed out (when his patience wears thin), just how much we do practice it but because it has become so much a part of our life I sometimes forget it isn't how others live...then if I am lucky he turns the heat up for a bit. Still we do both work to make it right for both of us and I can understand it not being for everyone.

Catalina

I guess that is what it comes down to. From my side of D/s, what you do seems dark and scary. But the way you describe it, and I get no impression that you are ever sugar-coating it, it's the same thing everyone else does with just a few differences. You two are still in a relationship with give and take, etc. Basically you make it sound, er, normal.

 

[Homburg]

From what I've seen so far on this site, many of you seem incredibly happy with your positions. And isn't that what we all like to see: people who know what their roles are, know their responsibilities and enjoy doing what they're doing, with no underlying frustration or fear.

I guess what I'd like to know now is how long did it take to completely find your place in this lifestyle, and was it frustrating at first?
(directed towards anyone who wants to answer)

There's frustration, and fear, but it doesn't overwhelm me. Personally, I think both are integral to life in general, so I do not worry overmuch about them.

In my case, it took a couple of years. "v" is a lifelong submissive, and had her first submissive fantasies in grade school. She, in the most amazing display of courage I've seen, asked me to consider a BDSM lifestyle. I did some research, and agreed. We'd done some BDSM style play before, and I'm just stupidly Dominant as a person, so it was, at first glance, an easy fit.

It wasn't. I wasn't feeling it. after a while, life interceded and events caused me to no longer feel my power, or feel in control. I felt like a fraud taking charge of her when I couldn't control my life. So we drifted away from it. A little while passes, and I found my power. We're active again, and enjoying it ten times over.

Part of it, IMO, is age/maturity. I read a bit somewhere that postulated a man only reaches his true Dominance in his mid-30's. That's where I am, so maybe there is something to that position.

 

[catalina_francisco]

You have a very valid point here.... how do you pick up the signs of abuse? Where do you draw the line?

Perhaps I'm just a little too basic and straight forward, but these are my simple thoughts on the topic.
My sub and I have only recently introduced punishment into our relationship (as opposed to just caning/flogging etc for fun) as she felt strongly that she needed help and discipline in a certain area. Now I've always shyed away from punishment for two main reasons:

1) She's an adult & if there's a problem we sit down and discuss it as adults to solve the issue. (I suppose that's very vanilla of me)
2) I've always felt that the 'punishment' aspect of BDSM is the big physical and psychological grey area where abuse can creep in.

So I'm entering into this realm with very shaky hands and taut nerves, but at the same time very flattered that she trusts me enough to venture down this road.

We have, however put down a very hard and fast rule. The minute she feels (or I detect) that she's performing and submitting out of fear of being punished rather than to please or be challenged, then the game is off. I strongly feel that when the fear line is crossed, then you are treading on thin ice and heading for an abusive relationship. I personally do not get off on my sub being afraid of me.
...Like I said... simple guy with simple thoughts.

While I congratulate you on being brave enough to take this step, why do you think sitting down and talking out problems/issues is vanilla? Do you believe that people in this lifestyle are incapable of doing that and immature? As to the punishment/abuse thing, as with most things in this journey, how you feel the first day you begin to practice D/s is not the same way you feel 1 year later, and that is not the same way you feel 5 years later...it is a journey and you do adapt and introduce new things to the relationship which once would not have been on the plate or even considered...it is growth and becoming comfortable with your choices. With that comfort hopeully comes increased self control to the point you do not necessarily feel certain things are abusive just because they would be considered such in the mainstream community. Fear need not be an abusive percursor, it can actually be something enjoyed and desired. With self control, fear can occupy this place without being abusive.

Catalina

 

[session9]

While I congratulate you on being brave enough to take this step, why do you think sitting down and talking out problems/issues is vanilla? Do you believe that people in this lifestyle are incapable of doing that and immature? As to the punishment/abuse thing, as with most things in this journey, how you feel the first day you begin to practice D/s is not the same way you feel 1 year later, and that is not the same way you feel 5 years later...it is a journey and you do adapt and introduce new things to the relationship which once would not have been on the plate or even considered...it is growth and becoming comfortable with your choices. With that comfort hopeully comes increased self control to the point you do not necessarily feel certain things are abusive just because they would be considered such in the mainstream community. Fear need not be an abusive percursor, it can actually be something enjoyed and desired. With self control, fear can occupy this place without being abusive.

Catalina

No no... the vanilla comment was purely tongue in cheek, there were actually no intentions and meaning behind it. I apologise if it offended you.
I've been Dominant for 12 years and with my sub for 5 years (married for 2 of those) and you are quite correct when you say this indeed a journey - one that keeps growing and where you keep learning.

My reluctance towards the whole 'punishment' aspect of BDSM came from a play party I attended a few years ago, where a I saw a 'misbehaving' submissive get punished outside the context of our scene (and was threatened with further punishment when they got home), an act which in itself didn't preturb me at all. I have an open mind and fully understand that the BDSM realm is very wide and varied for all involved, so I don't frown on any particular practices at all. Anyway... the submissive in question 'behaved' for the rest of the evening, but what turned me cold was the real fear I saw in her eyes and the way she flinched every time her Dom went near her. I just got the impression that she was submitting to him out of fear of retribution rather than submitting because she wanted to and that her Dom was using that fear to control her.
All I know is that I left that evening hoping to NEVER have my sub look at me with fear like that.... it turned my stomach.

So the punishment aspect is brand new to me and I am nervous - but who knows I may have a different opinion on it after I've navigated the road a little.

 

[NALA CAYENNE]

...
What works for me and mine won't necessarily work for others. I don' tmind commenting on specific situations, but general stuff? *shrug* Dunno. Seems like there's an unfrotunate number of jerks that enjoy the leeway that their partners' submissive personalities give them in a relationship, and take advantage of that fact. That line is just as accurate to describe vanilla relationships though, so it isn't a comment on BDSM. It's just human nature. =(

I agree with you here Homburg.

I also think that people skew the line in thinking when it comes to BDSM relationships because of what it stands for but when you think about it, vanilla relationships go through the same exact changes, conflicts, letdowns and enjoyments.

Where I think the ideas get lost on everyone is that we do tend to forget that a relationship is a relationship regardless of whether or not it is BDSM, homosexual, vanilla, hell, even parent/child.

I do poetry therapy with victims of domestic violence, both male and female, and sometimes think that vanilla relationships are so much worse than BDSM relationships. We seem to set up so many more parameters and communicate more with those that we choose to let dominate us or that we choose to dominate.

I think we also spend so much more time becoming in tune with ourselves and those we are involved with in a BDSM relationship than we tend to do in vanilla relationships. Vanilla relationships appear so much "safer" according to societies norms but are they really any safer than D/s relationships?

 

[Homburg]

I agree with you here Homburg.

I also think that people skew the line in thinking when it comes to BDSM relationships because of what it stands for but when you think about it, vanilla relationships go through the same exact changes, conflicts, letdowns and enjoyments.

Where I think the ideas get lost on everyone is that we do tend to forget that a relationship is a relationship regardless of whether or not it is BDSM, homosexual, vanilla, hell, even parent/child.

I was discussing D/s with someone lightly interested last night. She asked what happens when those fiery passions inevitably fade, saying they must, a sthey can't be sustainable. My response was to say that you reevaluate and discuss, and come up with new ways to ignite passions - just like you do in vanilla relationships.

People are people.

I do poetry therapy with victims of domestic violence, both male and female, and sometimes think that vanilla relationships are so much worse than BDSM relationships. We seem to set up so many more parameters and communicate more with those that we choose to let dominate us or that we choose to dominate.

I think we also spend so much more time becoming in tune with ourselves and those we are involved with in a BDSM relationship than we tend to do in vanilla relationships. Vanilla relationships appear so much "safer" according to societies norms but are they really any safer than D/s relationships?

*nod* I certainly agree that it is safer than vanilla relationships with people that are strongly dominant or submissive. Strongly dominant, non-BDSM males are frequently just awful dickheads to their women, especially as they attract submissive ladies that don't have the mental support that a BDSM structure provides. I don't know ho wmany lovely, wonderful submissives ladies that I know that were emotionally maimed by strongly dominant, non-BDSM males in vanilla relationships prior to discovering BDSM.

In my own relationship, communication is enormously important to me, BDSM or not. "v" is MUCH more closed-mouth, which is part and parcel to he decidedly submissive nature. Putting a BDSM structure in place has actually increased her willingness to communicate, at least a little bit. It is a good thing for us, as I need it badly.

 

[ownedsubgal]

That's fine. I like to see people enjoy new discussions.

Looking back, I guess I just wanted a better understanding of bdsm and those involved. I always knew very well that not every relationship is the same, I was directing most of my statements towards my friends. And I know that what I say will have little impact on them, but there are times that I feel I can not rest easy until I've made my point clear in some way.

From what I've seen so far on this site, many of you seem incredibly happy with your positions. And isn't that what we all like to see: people who know what their roles are, know their responsibilities and enjoy doing what they're doing, with no underlying frustration or fear.

I guess what I'd like to know now is how long did it take to completely find your place in this lifestyle, and was it frustrating at first?
(directed towards anyone who wants to answer)

from the first moment i discovered the lifestyle and had even a vague idea of what it was all about, i knew that i wanted/needed to be a slave in order to be truly fulfilled. unlike some, i wasn't first introduced to the lifestyle via the "kinky" sex route, but through an online friend who, after knowing me somewhat and hearing me complain about vanilla relationships and how i hated that i was so different and weird, etc., revealed to me that he believed i was a submissive. from there i researched the lifestyle online and was quickly drawn to those websites which discussed the realities, bright and dark, of day to day life as a submissive/slave/Master, and basically stayed away from those which delved into bdsm or the more scening involved aspects.

i joined a really great M/s community which held regular meetings offline, met a few folks, just getting my feet wet. again i always knew that i wished to be a slave...anything less than total surrender, anything less than someone having total control over my life, just didn't seem worthwhile for me. but being a pessimist i had severe doubts that i would ever come across the right Master...i never believed in dating or actively looking for anyone, rather i think one should just live and let nature take its course. anywho, 'lo and behold, after a few months i met the man who would become my Master, and our relationship naturally progressed from friendship to that of Mentor and mentee, to Master and slave. nothing scripted or preconceived...it just happened.

never have i regretted my decision to become a slave, but there have been times early on when i was doubtful (like most people) that i had found the right Master, or more accurately, that i was worthy of my Master. there were some very rough patches for a while there. but after i would say 2 years, i was finally completely secure in the relationship and i was at peace with my life in general, and have remained in that state ever since.

but i wanted to address the OP a bit: i realize that when people are on the outside looking in (not even necessarily outside of the lifestyle, but outside of that particular lifestyle dynamic-type), many things can appear unhealthy or just plain wrong. and sometimes that may indeed be the case. but more often i would say that it's a case of different people needing a different sort of relationship type and structure in order to be fulfilled. many many times, online especially, i've had people negatively judging my relationship with my Master, or making feeble attempts to "rescue" me. some aspects of my life will seem harsh to some, that i understand. but what they need to understand is that someone like me thrives in an environment of slavery and dependence. "fear" is not a dirty word in this house, neither is "abuse"...both are realities of my life. they are necessary aspects of the dynamic, and strengthen the bond between us. i'm not some miserable wretch who longs for a way out, i'm someone who came into this with her eyes wide open (informed), and made the choice to follow this path of my own free will (consent). and everyday i'm grateful that i made that choice, and have the opportunity to live this path...serving, pleasing, loving and worshipping Him.

 

[NALA CAYENNE]

I was discussing D/s with someone lightly interested last night. She asked what happens when those fiery passions inevitably fade, saying they must, a sthey can't be sustainable. My response was to say that you reevaluate and discuss, and come up with new ways to ignite passions - just like you do in vanilla relationships.

People are people.



*nod* I certainly agree that it is safer than vanilla relationships with people that are strongly dominant or submissive. Strongly dominant, non-BDSM males are frequently just awful dickheads to their women, especially as they attract submissive ladies that don't have the mental support that a BDSM structure provides. I don't know ho wmany lovely, wonderful submissives ladies that I know that were emotionally maimed by strongly dominant, non-BDSM males in vanilla relationships prior to discovering BDSM.

In my own relationship, communication is enormously important to me, BDSM or not. "v" is MUCH more closed-mouth, which is part and parcel to he decidedly submissive nature. Putting a BDSM structure in place has actually increased her willingness to communicate, at least a little bit. It is a good thing for us, as I need it badly.

You're right. People are people just as relationships are relationships regardless of the type.

Communication is very important to me, too. That was my deciding factor in becoming involved with my Dom and in submitting to him totally. Just knowing that I can talk to him is key, even if there's nothing he can do for me, I at least know I have his ear and shoulder when I may need it.

It's also very special to me that though he owns me, he still remembers that I have an opinion and he will ask for it on occasion. I admit that sometimes my answers do reflect what I think may please him, but that's more because of the fact that I want to please him than the fact that I feel threatened into agreeing with him.

 

[JMohegan]

Thank you so much for responding to my questions. It is greatly appreciated.

I am fighting my own internal struggles with this. Though I know BDSM relationships are for the most part not abusive, I am in one that is not abusive.....I can't get away from the thought in my head that I would not want my daughter or son to be a submissive. At least not until they were 40 lol (the age I was when I first met my Dom). From this mom's point of view it would be almost impossible to see it as anything but abusive. Even though I know better.

I do also recognize that my husband worries about my safety and though he tries to understand he still sees it as an abusive relationship. My sister worries about me also.

Thanks again for yor response, It will help me with conversation with both my husband and sister and my own internal struggles.

You're quite welcome.

I am a very private guy, and have never discussed specifics or details with anyone other than a partner. But I've never been in the closet either.

And in all my years of discussing sexual identification with the family and friends of submissive women, the only point that has ever really set their minds at ease is: she's happy. You can see it in her smile, and hear it in her laugh, and sense it in the way she interacts with other people - or even just in the way she walks down the street.

Abused people are not happy and thriving overall. Even if someone can not fathom the appeal in the intimate choices you make, they at least can grasp that concept, and acknowledge that it is true.

 

[ecstaticsub]

You're quite welcome.

I am a very private guy, and have never discussed specifics or details with anyone other than a partner. But I've never been in the closet either.

And in all my years of discussing sexual identification with the family and friends of submissive women, the only point that has ever really set their minds at ease is: she's happy. You can see it in her smile, and hear it in her laugh, and sense it in the way she interacts with other people - or even just in the way she walks down the street.

Abused people are not happy and thriving overall. Even if someone can not fathom the appeal in the intimate choices you make, they at least can grasp that concept, and acknowledge that it is true.

Very good point. No one who knows and loves me could miss that I am more at peace with myself, more confident, and much more positive than I was three years ago.