Making your sub punish themselves

[Ebonyfire]

Ahh but for that fine line between a dismissable mistake and a disciplinary correction wouldn't this be one of the most trying acts for one of your subs since by that time they would know you do not punish?

I have had sissy over 1 1/2 years and have never had to take any disciplinary action to him. I discipline him for fun, not because he has done anything wrong. Mistakes are corrected. And that is usually something that happens in the beginning.

My subs are service subs, not bedroom subs.

P.S. I have a detailed requirements list that they must agree to BEFORE I will even talk to them in depth. They know I do not Punish from the very beginning. They CHOOSE to serve Me.

Ebony

 

[zipman]

Okay, I have a lot of posts to reply to so here goes:

Sexychele - We seem to view this topic very similarly.

Artful - I appreciate your distinction and feel the same way sometimes

Persephone - Obviously, you are not into S/M. That is fine. Everyone needs to understand what does and does not work for them. For the record, I would not ask someone who was not into S/M to hurt/punish themselves. The turn-on is seeing the submission AND pain/pleasure that they are experiencing. I hink you can be a submissive and NOT be into pain.

PBW - I have to quote yours to respond:

<Snip>
Which of course brings up another interesting aspect, forcing your submissive to perform punishment on themselves because you (as the Dom/me) are too disgusted with their behavior to even touch them... of course, I would assume the Dom/me would be telling them how disgusted they are during the punishment. So, that would be a good humiliation type thing and even a way for the Dom/me to show the submissive how really "bad" they were.

Anyhoo... enough from me. Good topic.

- PBW

If the intent was humiliation, then you would be correct, however that was not my intent. Humiliation does nothing for me personally, and it sounds like it turns me on about as much as pian turns you on. I would never keep a sub that I was disgusted with, nor would I continue to "play" or "scene" with one who did. Interesting addition to the thread though, thanks!

Hot4heels- Thanks for your addition. I feel similarly that it can be very erotic and a trying act for a sub

EB - Thanks for your post. You have made it infinitely clear that you do not punish. I respect your choice and the way that you train your subs. I do enjoy the act of disciplining and punishing. Here is where we get into an interesting area.

When I started this thread, I believe I was mistaken in narrowing the discussion to punsihment, I don't believe I chose my words carefully enough, and I also use this, much more frequently as a means of discipline. EB's comments have brought my poor wording to light. Thank you!

 

[A Desert Rose]

Okay, I have a lot of posts to reply to so here goes:


When I started this thread, I believe I was mistaken in narrowing the discussion to punsihment, I don't believe I chose my words carefully enough, and I also use this, much more frequently as a means of discipline. EB's comments have brought my poor wording to light. Thank you!

~~~~~~~~Pardon me, but didn't I pose this to you yesterday? Or was I just asking a stupid question when I did?
Rose

 

[artful]

Re: Re: Re: there is no way..

you are quite welcome Mr.zipman7 lol..and uh just for the record (after reading Sexy chele's post),I HAVE HAD TIME to reflect and just care to add that of COURSE if my Master recqusted or "commanded" me to punish myself in any way,then being the good submissive,slave that I AM.I'D comply at once CAUSE I SEEK ONLY to please HIM..

Well,...I have read the posts again,...what I see being discussed is control,and pleasure/pain being self administered. I can't SEE the PUNISHMENT aspect. (JMHO)

 

[zipman]

Re: Re: Re: Re: there is no way..

Well,...I have read the posts again,...what I see being discussed is control,and pleasure/pain being self administered. I can't SEE the PUNISHMENT aspect. (JMHO)

In response to both Artful and Rose:

You are correct Artful, in saying that you see control,and pleasure/pain being self administered. However, the distinction for me is the amount, or should I say percentage of pain versus pleasure. Perspephone stated that she plays a little on the boundary of pleasure/pain with nipple twisting and clamps. What I am describing (or at least attempting to describe) is when the amount of pain a sub is inflicting on themselves goes past the point of it being pleasurable for them. It is painful. You can see it on their face. It is unmistakeable. To me, this is not masturbation and the level of pain can be considered a punishment. Would the sub do it as hard as I was directing her to if I didn't say anything - absolutely not. It is about having a sub push her limits of pain, by virtue of the command being given her.

Does this clear it up at all?

 

[P. B. Walker]

Okay, I have a lot of posts to reply to so here goes:

PBW - I have to quote yours to respond:



If the intent was humiliation, then you would be correct, however that was not my intent. Humiliation does nothing for me personally, and it sounds like it turns me on about as much as pian turns you on. I would never keep a sub that I was disgusted with, nor would I continue to "play" or "scene" with one who did. Interesting addition to the thread though, thanks!

Yes I agree with you there 100%. I just saw this form of punishment as a good way to add humilition, IF (big IF) you are into humilition (or rather, the submissive is turned on by that sort of thing). Sometimes ideas just pop into my head and before I know it, they are written down without much thought behind them


PBW

 

[zipman]

Yes I agree with you there 100%. I just saw this form of punishment as a good way to add humilition, IF (big IF) you are into humilition (or rather, the submissive is turned on by that sort of thing). Sometimes ideas just pop into my head and before I know it, they are written down without much thought behind them


PBW

Then let them keep popping out, it definitely contributed to the thread.

And by the way, we haven't officially "met" but I really enjoy a lot of your posts. You add a certain something to each of the threads tht you post to, especially your humor.

Nice to meet you and thanks for posting!

 

[SexyChele]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: there is no way..

In response to both Artful and Rose:

You are correct Artful, in saying that you see control,and pleasure/pain being self administered. However, the distinction for me is the amount, or should I say percentage of pain versus pleasure. Perspephone stated that she plays a little on the boundary of pleasure/pain with nipple twisting and clamps. What I am describing (or at least attempting to describe) is when the amount of pain a sub is inflicting on themselves goes past the point of it being pleasurable for them. It is painful. You can see it on their face. It is unmistakeable. To me, this is not masturbation and the level of pain can be considered a punishment. Would the sub do it as hard as I was directing her to if I didn't say anything - absolutely not. It is about having a sub push her limits of pain, by virtue of the command being given her.

Does this clear it up at all?

This makes perfect sense to me. (Oh-oh, better be careful here!) When I have been told to adminster punishment to myself, it is NOT directed at pleasing myself. Nor am I allowed to "get away" with something lesser. It IS about punishing. (or discplining or correcting or whatever terminology suits the situation)

Having my pussy spanked can bring me to orgasm. But if my Dom tells me to take a wooden spoon and really spank my clit, it's an "ouchie"! As I stated, I have one Dom who can tell by the sound on a telephone how hard I'm hitting myself. If I mess up, I have to do even more strokes.

As well the waxing. The candle was normally not a paraffin wax candle. It was a normal, everyday candle that burns much hotter. Being told to hold it one and half to two feet from my body, let the wax pool a the tip, then dribble it across my breasts is something I know is going to hurt like HELL! This is not a pleasurable pain. This is not a pain I'm going to get off on. This is something that is going to leave burn marks for a day or so.

Now, why do I do this? Because I am submissive to my Dom. I know that I have displeased him, and this is the form of punishment/correction/discipline that he has directed I engage in. And I do it out of submission to him.

But, yes, it is punishment - it is not something that I would be doing to myself for pleasure, and my Dom knows it is not pleasurable to me.

 

[P. B. Walker]

Then let them keep popping out, it definitely contributed to the thread.

And by the way, we haven't officially "met" but I really enjoy a lot of your posts. You add a certain something to each of the threads tht you post to, especially your humor.

Nice to meet you and thanks for posting!

Thanks Zipman. It's good to meet you too. Hope to continue seeing your posts in the future as well.

PBW

 

[Persephone36]

Btw, I just want to thank you all -- PWB, Zip, Chele (hope I'm not leaving anyone out) where you've referenced what I wrote.

It helps me to feel *immensely* more confident about my choices and what my boundaries are. And you all understood what I was saying completely. The mild use of spanking, or nipple clamps -- on that pain/pleasure boundary -- is absolutely about receiving pleasure and as a means to climaxing.

I know more clearly now too -- that punishment of any sort is out of the picture for me. As well, as what Zip pointed out -- the whole area of S/M.

I happened to have already known too that humiliation/degradation are also hard boundaries for me.

It's interesting that so far the nascent relationship I'm exploring right now -- the man and I are on the same wave length here. Whether that means we will end up really fitting into any description of a D/s sexual relationship remains to be seen. But they're all good discussions -- they keep me questioning myself, and I think that's a good thing.

Thanks everyone.

P.

 

[zipman]

A Lit Benefit

<Snip>

Whether that means we will end up really fitting into any description of a D/s sexual relationship remains to be seen. But they're all good discussions -- they keep me questioning myself, and I think that's a good thing.

Thanks everyone.

P.

I think it's a great thing. Sometimes, a simple question or post makes me rethink or clarify for myself what I want out of my relationships! It happened today reading the posts on Rituals and positions. I know that I would not want that type of relationship with my girlfriend/sub. The key for me is the ever-growing understanding of what I want.

 

[Persephone36]

Re: A Lit Benefit

I think it's a great thing. Sometimes, a simple question or post makes me rethink or clarify for myself what I want out of my relationships! It happened today reading the posts on Rituals and positions. I know that I would not want that type of relationship with my girlfriend/sub. The key for me is the ever-growing understanding of what I want.

You're very right Zip. But I have to admit -- I sometimes, well I guess just lately since it's in the forefront of my mind and life, find it an exhausting and difficult process. All my self-questioning is wearing me down a bit. I don't know if others feel that way -- or ever felt that way.

P.

 

[zipman]

Re: Re: A Lit Benefit

You're very right Zip. But I have to admit -- I sometimes, well I guess just lately since it's in the forefront of my mind and life, find it an exhausting and difficult process. All my self-questioning is wearing me down a bit. I don't know if others feel that way -- or ever felt that way.

P.

If you find it exhausting, why not take a break? I don't think the idea is to wear yourself out by defining your position on a particular thread or topic. I was a huge news junkie - read online papers from all over the world until I realized that I was making myself a little nuts. This place is a quiet diversion by comparison.

 

[SexyChele]

Re: Re: A Lit Benefit

You're very right Zip. But I have to admit -- I sometimes, well I guess just lately since it's in the forefront of my mind and life, find it an exhausting and difficult process. All my self-questioning is wearing me down a bit. I don't know if others feel that way -- or ever felt that way.

P.

Perse - you are welcome if I was able to offer any tidbit of info that you found valuable.

Also, I think most of us have been talking about punishment being physical pain. And PBW mentioned the *possible* humiliation factor. But really, punishment is something that is completely between Dom and sub. Some subs just aren't into pain. Some aren't into humiliation. I, for one, am not into the whole abandonment thing. That's why it is important to know your limits and discuss them. And it is a Dom's responsibility to take the limits s/he has learned from you to formulate any punishment that BOTH of you agree on. (A common misconception is that subs are punished against their will. This is not true. Subs know when they've screwed up, and they usually have an idea of what their Dom might do. Example: no extreme pain, no humiliation, etc)

As to your quote above, YES! When I was first looking into the lifestyle and trying to figure out just where I might fit in, if I did indeed fit in, I would give myself headaches! I had to sit back from it all, sometimes for a few days or weeks, and pick it up when I was ready to.

Also, don't expect yourself to learn everything all at once. This is a journey - and the best part is not the end, but in getting there. You can talk and read and study and discuss til the proverbial cows come home. But it's when you are face to face with a Dom/me, experiementing, playing, laughing, crying, and everything inbetween that it becomes real. That's also when you first begin to learn about yourself. (I'm NOT saying don't study, talk, discuss, ask questions, just sayin' that this is something to be experienced!)

You will find your "niche", Perse. And when you do, you will be happy and content.

Here's to a great voyage!

 

[Persephone36]

Re: Re: Re: A Lit Benefit

As to your quote above, YES! When I was first looking into the lifestyle and trying to figure out just where I might fit in, if I did indeed fit in, I would give myself headaches! I had to sit back from it all, sometimes for a few days or weeks, and pick it up when I was ready to.

Also, don't expect yourself to learn everything all at once. This is a journey - and the best part is not the end, but in getting there. You can talk and read and study and discuss til the proverbial cows come home. But it's when you are face to face with a Dom/me, experiementing, playing, laughing, crying, and everything inbetween that it becomes real. That's also when you first begin to learn about yourself. (I'm NOT saying don't study, talk, discuss, ask questions, just sayin' that this is something to be experienced!)

You will find your "niche", Perse. And when you do, you will be happy and content.

Here's to a great voyage!

Thanks SO MUCH Chele! And thank you Zip too.

I don't know why -- it just suddenly seems overwhelming. Figuring it all out -- potential new relationship (this weekend is when we're meeting for the first time, maybe that's part of what is making me so off-balance. LOL, he's probably reading this too.) But yep -- getting into the actual exploring past the mental -- is hard. Hard finding someone you trust to do it with when you're new to it all and you're not sure what you want.

Thank you, Chele, for saying I'll find my "niche" too, lol. It's also the tough part of finding someone to share it with you, you know?

Lol, can you all tell I'm feeling kind of down about all of this? I know, I probably shouldn't push myself so hard to figure it all out -- after all, it was really only the last few months that I shed my vanilla ways and started busting boundaries right and left. Guess all that is a lot to integrate, I suppose.

Oh, well, lol -- thank you guys for letting me be a little morose here and ramble.

Hey!! There you go -- I brought it back to keeping with the thread. What's me going on about this if it's not all me bashing myself up? There you go -- sub punishing herself, lol.

P.

 

[zipman]

Re: Re: Re: A Lit Benefit

Perse - you are welcome if I was able to offer any tidbit of info that you found valuable.

Also, I think most of us have been talking about punishment being physical pain. And PBW mentioned the *possible* humiliation factor. But really, punishment is something that is completely between Dom and sub. Some subs just aren't into pain. Some aren't into humiliation. I, for one, am not into the whole abandonment thing. That's why it is important to know your limits and discuss them. And it is a Dom's responsibility to take the limits s/he has learned from you to formulate any punishment that BOTH of you agree on. (A common misconception is that subs are punished against their will. This is not true. Subs know when they've screwed up, and they usually have an idea of what their Dom might do. Example: no extreme pain, no humiliation, etc)

As to your quote above, YES! When I was first looking into the lifestyle and trying to figure out just where I might fit in, if I did indeed fit in, I would give myself headaches! I had to sit back from it all, sometimes for a few days or weeks, and pick it up when I was ready to.

Also, don't expect yourself to learn everything all at once. This is a journey - and the best part is not the end, but in getting there. You can talk and read and study and discuss til the proverbial cows come home. But it's when you are face to face with a Dom/me, experiementing, playing, laughing, crying, and everything inbetween that it becomes real. That's also when you first begin to learn about yourself. (I'm NOT saying don't study, talk, discuss, ask questions, just sayin' that this is something to be experienced!)

You will find your "niche", Perse. And when you do, you will be happy and content.

Here's to a great voyage!

Great post and great advice SexyChele! You are quickly moving up on my list of people whose posts I have to read!!

 

[SexyChele]

Re: Re: Re: Re: A Lit Benefit

Great post and great advice SexyChele! You are quickly moving up on my list of people whose posts I have to read!!

Aw...thank you! I have been looking forward to reading your posts since you first made your presence known.