Mary and Alvin

[SamGrifter]

A few thoughts:

- I think if Mary had been attracted to Alvin because he had money or power, that would be creepy. This a romance story after all, people can become attracted to other people for reasons other than their age or how they look. Perhaps the guys Mary had dated in the past were young and immature, both in and out of the bedroom, and she feels a connection with Alvin that she had never felt before.

- I find it funny that in the PC world we live in, it's still okay to age shame Alvin. George Clooney and Brad Pitt are both over 47 and many women, including younger women, still find them attractive.

- People who are also writers will view the story differently than an average reader. I know this is the case for me since I started writing a few years back. Often times now when I read something I think "I would have done this differently, changed this, or added that."

- Alvin may have a few flaws, but so what -- real people have flaws. I think imperfect characters are more realistic.

- Regarding beaches: I grew up in Southern California and also lived in Australia. One of my best beach days was spent at Lime Regis in England, which is very unlike any other beaches I had visited.

- I think flash backs can be useful. Too many times stories get bogged with a data dump of backstory at the beginning.

- Over all, I liked the story. I would have liked to see their relationship develop more before it became sexual.

 

[MelissaBaby]

A few thoughts:

- I think if Mary had been attracted to Alvin because he had money or power, that would be creepy. This a romance story after all, people can become attracted to other people for reasons other than their age or how they look. Perhaps the guys Mary had dated in the past were young and immature, both in and out of the bedroom, and she feels a connection with Alvin that she had never felt before.

- I find it funny that in the PC world we live in, it's still okay to age shame Alvin. George Clooney and Brad Pitt are both over 47 and many women, including younger women, still find them attractive.

- People who are also writers will view the story differently than an average reader. I know this is the case for me since I started writing a few years back. Often times now when I read something I think "I would have done this differently, changed this, or added that."

- Alvin may have a few flaws, but so what -- real people have flaws. I think imperfect characters are more realistic.

- Regarding beaches: I grew up in Southern California and also lived in Australia. One of my best beach days was spent at Lime Regis in England, which is very unlike any other beaches I had visited.

- I think flash backs can be useful. Too many times stories get bogged with a data dump of backstory at the beginning.

- Over all, I liked the story. I would have liked to see their relationship develop more before it became sexual.

Thank you, Sam. It is really disheartening when readers see a character so differently than you had intended, but it is helpful to hear those interpretations and try to improve going forward. For example, 8letters' belief that Alvin cheated on his wife have no basis in the text, but I can see how I may have inadvertently opened the door to his thoughts leading there as he read.

The response to Mary and Alvin has been very positive overall, (all the chapters have receive ratings between 4.67-4.76), but the speed with which the relationship became sexual has been the more common criticism. I have come to agree with it. It would have been better to let the steam build longer.

Thank you for your thoughts.

 

[8letters]

It is really disheartening when readers see a character so differently than you had intended, but it is helpful to hear those interpretations and try to improve going forward. For example, 8letters' belief that Alvin cheated on his wife have no basis in the text, but I can see how I may have inadvertently opened the door to his thoughts leading there as he read.

Don't be disheartened - you're story is making lots of people happy, which you can tell by the ratings you're getting. I feel badly about the disconnect between the harsh feedback I'm giving and the very positive acceptance you're getting from your readers. I'm right, but they are much more right.

You've got great stuff in your head. This time, you didn't get down as well as you should have, but you still created a compelling story. Do a better job next time of getting it down.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Don't be disheartened - you're story is making lots of people happy, which you can tell by the ratings you're getting. I feel badly about the disconnect between the harsh feedback I'm giving and the very positive acceptance you're getting from your readers. I'm right, but they are much more right.

You've got great stuff in your head. This time, you didn't get down as well as you should have, but you still created a compelling story. Do a better job next time of getting it down.

I am sincere when I say that I appreciate all criticism, whether I agree with it or not. I see a lot of merit in some of your points, and feel others are off base. But they are all helpful. I feel very honored that my writing has received such positive response, but I know I have plenty of room to improve. I can take my spanking like a big girl.

And thank you for your positive words.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Don't be disheartened - you're story is making lots of people happy, which you can tell by the ratings you're getting. I feel badly about the disconnect between the harsh feedback I'm giving and the very positive acceptance you're getting from your readers. I'm right, but they are much more right.

You've got great stuff in your head. This time, you didn't get down as well as you should have, but you still created a compelling story. Do a better job next time of getting it down.

Ditto to this.

 

[oshaw]

I've chanced upon your story prior to seeing your post. I really don't think you need any guidance from a third party. You have a great writing style, a plausible plot, and interesting characters, and with your comment about having twenty chapters written you have a clear idea where you want to take this story. I'm looking forward to being entertained by the rest of your story.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Ditto to this.

Thank you again for taking the time and making the effort to read my work and share your thoughts.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I've chanced upon your story prior to seeing your post. I really don't think you need any guidance from a third party. You have a great writing style, a plausible plot, and interesting characters, and with your comment about having twenty chapters written you have a clear idea where you want to take this story. I'm looking forward to being entertained by the rest of your story.

I am very glad you are enjoying it. Chapter Five has just been published.

 

[Charmolypi]

Alvin is 46 and works hard at a physically demanding job. He is described as being in good shape and certainly not lacking in stamina. He treats Mary with complete respect.I am genuinely surprised to see him described as creepy or lecherous. I am disappointed that he read that way to you, but I thank you for sharing your perspective.

I apologize if I offended. Maybe I am reading this too much in the perspective of erotica literature where the anticipation and consummation of their erotic desire is supposed to be (hoped to be) at least pleasant to the reader. Age play, especially 20 year’s difference, is a niche that many won’t find erotic. That’s where I’m coming from.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I apologize if I offended. Maybe I am reading this too much in the perspective of erotica literature where the anticipation and consummation of their erotic desire is supposed to be (hoped to be) at least pleasant to the reader. Age play, especially 20 year’s difference, is a niche that many won’t find erotic. That’s where I’m coming from.

There is no need to apologize. I was perplexed rather than offended. And, of course, I am disappointed that you found something I wrote unpleasant. But if the age difference between the characters turns you off, I can respect that. We all have our personal tastes. I've never heard of a relationship between two adults behaving as adults referred to as "age play" though.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I apologize if I offended. Maybe I am reading this too much in the perspective of erotica literature where the anticipation and consummation of their erotic desire is supposed to be (hoped to be) at least pleasant to the reader. Age play, especially 20 year’s difference, is a niche that many won’t find erotic. That’s where I’m coming from.

Setting aside the expression "age play" - which is a curious expression (not all relationships are role play, just saying) - there are just as many who find older man/younger woman stories to be very erotic.

My most commented story (all favourable, and from both men and women), and one of my highest scores and highest views, was one of those. One of my female writer colleagues said, "Well, you nailed every woman's daddy thing with that one!" It wasn't an I/T story, btw.

Even MD confessed she liked both my protagonists very much, even though they spent too much time walking around and not enough plot for her taste .

 

[AwkwardMD]

I am hard to please.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I am hard to please.

We can only try

 

[SimonDoom]

The posts in this thread are fascinating. My reaction is, MelissaBaby, you must be doing something right to get such strong reactions. I suspect it's because you obviously have a talent for words and writers like AwkwardMD and 8letters, who are good writers and intelligent critics (even though I think they're wrong about what you've written) are taking the time to respond to your story. If your stuff was just hack-work, they wouldn't have responded at all. If you look at it the right way, it's a good thing, not a bad thing.

 

[MelissaBaby]

The posts in this thread are fascinating. My reaction is, MelissaBaby, you must be doing something right to get such strong reactions. I suspect it's because you obviously have a talent for words and writers like AwkwardMD and 8letters, who are good writers and intelligent critics (even though I think they're wrong about what you've written) are taking the time to respond to your story. If your stuff was just hack-work, they wouldn't have responded at all. If you look at it the right way, it's a good thing, not a bad thing.

It is certainly a good thing. I am grateful for everyone's comments.

 

[8letters]

The posts in this thread are fascinating. My reaction is, MelissaBaby, you must be doing something right to get such strong reactions. I suspect it's because you obviously have a talent for words...

Ummm, no.

I posted the first critique and most of the rest of the thread is critiquing my critique. If anything provoked a strong reaction, it was my critique.

...and writers like AwkwardMD and 8letters, who are good writers and intelligent critics (even though I think they're wrong about what you've written) are taking the time to respond to your story. If your stuff was just hack-work, they wouldn't have responded at all.

I provide feedback to almost every story that's in a category that I don't mind reading. AwkwardMD is similar. I've responded to plenty of hack-work.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Ummm, no.

I posted the first critique and most of the rest of the thread is critiquing my critique. If anything provoked a strong reaction, it was my critique.


I provide feedback to almost every story that's in a category that I don't mind reading. AwkwardMD is similar. I've responded to plenty of hack-work.

OK. Well, I guess I should be grateful to have spent a moment in the glow of your presence.

 

[SimonDoom]

OK. Well, I guess I should be grateful to have spent a moment in the glow of your presence.

Well, I'm grateful. The glow was so warm I was able to turn my thermostat down and save on energy bills.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I am really grateful to everyone who has been reading Mary and Alvin. I want to say thank you to those who have shared their thoughts, whether it was praise or helpful criticism. I am very thankful to my fellow writers who have been generous with their advice and critique.

I often try to end chapters with a moment of emotional closure, what I think of as "sticking the landing". This is sometimes interpreted by readers as concluding the story, and I get frequent enquiries as to whether or not there will be more.

I have just published Chapter Eight, and I can tell readers that I have roughly sketched at least ten more. So, no, I don't expect that Mary and Alvin will be sailing away any time soon. It is very hard to sail into the sunset from Maine, anyway.

I do have two ideas in mind for future series, but they will have to wait. I am utterly in love with these characters, and don't intend to give them the bum's rush for any new loves.

I expect to have more writing time over the summer, and I hope to submit chapters on a tighter schedule. I will likely be taking a short hiatus in August. I am getting married. Readers of My Fall and Rise will likely be able to guess the song I have chosen for the ceremony.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I do have two ideas in mind for future series, but they will have to wait. I am utterly in love with these characters, and don't intend to give them the bum's rush for any new loves.

It shows. I think the most intimate, emotional writing shines through when the author falls in love with their characters, I know mine does. The words seem to glow from the page, they get something extra about them.

I expect to have more writing time over the summer, and I hope to submit chapters on a tighter schedule. I will likely be taking a short hiatus in August. I am getting married. Readers of My Fall and Rise will likely be able to guess the song I have chosen for the ceremony.

Congratulations, that really is wonderful, but no excuse . Your Mary and Alvin wedding scene, then, will have its own "little truth," somewhere hidden.

 

[MelissaBaby]

It shows. I think the most intimate, emotional writing shines through when the author falls in love with their characters, I know mine does. The words seem to glow from the page, they get something extra about them.

One reader commented that they would like a Jennifer/Danielle backstory. I really feel like it would be inappropriate to make anyone other than Mary and Alvin POV characters, but I love the secondary characters as well, so who knows? They could get a spin off sometime. Maybe Tim and his rotating wives could as well.

Congratulations, that really is wonderful, but no excuse . Your Mary and Alvin wedding scene, then, will have its own "little truth," somewhere hidden.

Thank you. Yes, I may have two weddings to plan.

 

[MelissaBaby]

How To Talk Like Alvin


Ayuh.

 

[lovecraft68]

I agree with a lot of what 8letters said. I think Mary was being to 'easy' with Maine which-no offense to the op-has a not so stellar reputation in many ways-My wife lived in OOB for about a year(I know you know that abreviation) and still shudders about it. That and I didn't feel any of the trepidation or culture shock that one would feel in not just a new state, but such change of pace and people.

As for Alvin being creepy. That was my impression in his asking her out quick. As for his thinking of getting between her legs, well that's a lot more normal than creepy. She's young and pretty he's older and...horny. Now if he said those things? Then we have a real creeper. Thoughts to me are seen differently than actual actions. Because if I did everything I thought...whoo boy

To me it moved to quickly whole thing moved too quickly, but only because its intended to be a series. If this were a one off sex this quickly obviously works, it but there's more. You're in romance, the one category on here where readers don't get upset if there's no action in the intro, they're there for the slow burn, conflict driven budding relationship.

Maybe you have plans to have their be remorse, a walk of shame a what did we do. Or some...Mary was fine for a fuck, but does he want to date a woman that young or does she want to be seen as someone with an older man hence branded with daddy issues?

Only you know.

Writing itself, on point and story telling was smooth. You're a very good author. This just had more misses than hits for me.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I agree with a lot of what 8letters said. I think Mary was being to 'easy' with Maine which-no offense to the op-has a not so stellar reputation in many ways-My wife lived in OOB for about a year(I know you know that abreviation) and still shudders about it. That and I didn't feel any of the trepidation or culture shock that one would feel in not just a new state, but such change of pace and people.

As for Alvin being creepy. That was my impression in his asking her out quick. As for his thinking of getting between her legs, well that's a lot more normal than creepy. She's young and pretty he's older and...horny. Now if he said those things? Then we have a real creeper. Thoughts to me are seen differently than actual actions. Because if I did everything I thought...whoo boy

To me it moved to quickly whole thing moved too quickly, but only because its intended to be a series. If this were a one off sex this quickly obviously works, it but there's more. You're in romance, the one category on here where readers don't get upset if there's no action in the intro, they're there for the slow burn, conflict driven budding relationship.

Maybe you have plans to have their be remorse, a walk of shame a what did we do. Or some...Mary was fine for a fuck, but does he want to date a woman that young or does she want to be seen as someone with an older man hence branded with daddy issues?

Only you know.

Writing itself, on point and story telling was smooth. You're a very good author. This just had more misses than hits for me.

Thank you for taking the time to read and for your comments. I have said earlier in the thread that I do think I should have slowed things down between them. As a fairly inexperienced author, I felt the story needed the "money shot". In retrospect, I'd have done it differently.

As for Mary's reaction to Maine, I guess I am blinded by personal feelings as a native Mainer in exile who sees this story as in large part, a homage to my home state. I will say though, that I would not want to live in OOB either.

 

[tangledweed]

I enjoyed the first few chapters myself and will try to catch up with the recent ones now. I don't have an issue with the age difference, probably because I am getting up there myself (not that I am deluded enough to think it would ever happen to me or that my wife would be ok with it). If the story was in the mature category instead of romance, it wouldn't have raised any comment. I hope we don't have to start put age warnings in romance like they do cheat warnings in loving wives.

I also have to thank Melissa for the dilly beans, I spotted some in a deli shortly after reading the first chapter and picked them up. I never heard of them before and for a guy who can drink pickle juice from the jar, it was right up my alley. I love that kind of stuff, both picking up some new flavor and getting to try something delicious.