Master/slave VS.?

[catalina_francisco]

I understand what you're saying..... I really do, and in part even agree with it.

I think what I was most trying to impart (and will try again now that I've had another cup of coffee), is that the person has to make that discovery for herself (feminine used only because it's easier for me). True, the Master would guide, teach, train, and slowly the discovery comes.....
but it is still within the heart of the girl. No manner of training makes a submissive into a slave. It comes from within, then and only then is it given.
Yes, I'm owned, every single inch, every thought, every temper fit (which I still occassionally have, and do pay for ) But as much as I give him..... my heart and soul knew I was slave, before him.
If he had not found me, i would still .......be slave.

I apologize if I've offended any with my opinions. It was never my intent.
slave vs submissive isn't a contest, nor is one better than the other..... we just are. Complete within ourselves, and better for it, I think..... because we're true to ourselves first.

I agree with you in this, especially the no contest part....unfortunately, being an emotive issue, I think it is to remain forever a topic which is seen as competitive for various reasons by many. For me, there was a journey of discovery through which I was mentored, but in no way guided in any particular direction even though the mentor saw me for who I was, with or without a Master. Once that journey took on the level of searching for the one who would dominate me for life, initially I did not describe or label myself to others as slave (though it was who I felt I was inside), but was told by one Dominant after another it was who I was inside and out and that I would never find the peace I sought in living the life of submissive only.

It was never considered by them or I as a matter of one being better than the other, just a recognition of the needs within myself, the lifestyle I wanted to commit to 100%, and who I was. Interestingly, though I agreed with them in that I could not see myself finding peace in being a submissive as opposed to a slave, I never fully realised until the last 18 months with Master just how deep that truth goes in my soul. I now know if I had entered into a relationship as a submissive I would be miserable, unfulfilled, and a liability rather than asset to my Dominant. It is not an easy life, but for me it is far easier than being a submissive by my own definition.

It also is not as some believe, a life where one does not have a voice, does not have responsibilities, does not have interests and a personality, nor a life where one is totally unaccountable for anything they do at their owner's command. IMO, you make the choice to consent to being owned by the one who ultimately commands you, so you have chosen to accept their choices and limits.....so while you accept it as their choice, if you are wise you make sure you know the owner well enough before committing so you are not going to be in a position of having to follow a command for which you do not want to be seen as accountable by others. The journey for me remains ever changing, ever interesting, and never boring.

Catalina

 

[Moose's Lady]

I agree with you in this, especially the no contest part....unfortunately, being an emotive issue, I think it is to remain forever a topic which is seen as competitive for various reasons by many. For me, there was a journey of discovery through which I was mentored, but in no way guided in any particular direction even though the mentor saw me for who I was, with or without a Master. Once that journey took on the level of searching for the one who would dominate me for life, initially I did not describe or label myself to others as slave (though it was who I felt I was inside), but was told by one Dominant after another it was who I was inside and out and that I would never find the peace I sought in living the life of submissive only.

It was never considered by them or I as a matter of one being better than the other, just a recognition of the needs within myself, the lifestyle I wanted to commit to 100%, and who I was. Interestingly, though I agreed with them in that I could not see myself finding peace in being a submissive as opposed to a slave, I never fully realised until the last 18 months with Master just how deep that truth goes in my soul. I now know if I had entered into a relationship as a submissive I would be miserable, unfulfilled, and a liability rather than asset to my Dominant. It is not an easy life, but for me it is far easier than being a submissive by my own definition.

It also is not as some believe, a life where one does not have a voice, does not have responsibilities, does not have interests and a personality, nor a life where one is totally unaccountable for anything they do at their owner's command. IMO, you make the choice to consent to being owned by the one who ultimately commands you, so you have chosen to accept their choices and limits.....so while you accept it as their choice, if you are wise you make sure you know the owner well enough before committing so you are not going to be in a position of having to follow a command for which you do not want to be seen as accountable by others. The journey for me remains ever changing, ever interesting, and never boring.

Catalina

BRAVO!!!

 

[slaveskinky]

To be Honest

To be honest, i still question my own submissiveness. I don't think i could be slave to another unless i loved Him as i do Biker. I think it's my love that makes me able to go to the levels of submission i have gone. i am also not sure if i have forgiven, excepted my lot. That is partly why i have begun writing, to help me work those feelings and thoughts. Healing might be a good word for it. Some might call it therapy.
Biker reads everything i write but never censors me. He is very supportive. It has created dialogue between us, very painful to Biker and to myself. Many things difficult to explain. Such as the affect His claiming had on me. All i can say is that it forever holds me prisoner to Him emotionally. As hard as some things were to submit too (sharing Him emotionally or my learning to be with females sexually), the alternative of leaving Him was worse. My Biker is the love of my life. i serve Him willingly, so do not think differently because i write of my questionings.

This thread is good stuff *L*

 

[slaveskinky]

afterthought

catalina,
When Biker first laid out His rule,(Never say No) to me it was easy to agree. It was (i would later discove)r a fantasy i was living.Some might say i wore rose colored glasses. i had no knowledge of the (lifestyle). As i our life together progressed and i had begun living the reality i was in for a rude awakening. So each new thing that i faced was a battle for me. Thankfully my Biker is a patient man and understood i needed time. Things i thought i had dealt with at the time i had simply buried deep inside me. This is why i am now delving into my inner self.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Re: afterthought

catalina,
When Biker first laid out His rule,(Never say No) to me it was easy to agree. It was (i would later discove)r a fantasy i was living.Some might say i wore rose colored glasses. i had no knowledge of the (lifestyle). As i our life together progressed and i had begun living the reality i was in for a rude awakening. So each new thing that i faced was a battle for me. Thankfully my Biker is a patient man and understood i needed time. Things i thought i had dealt with at the time i had simply buried deep inside me. This is why i am now delving into my inner self.

I can identify with this in many ways. I think for many who seek the depths and delve to experience and understand that journey in all it's facets, it is similar to peeling away the layers of an onion. Each time you think you have removed all there is to peel, another layer shows itself and begins to lift from the core to reveal a new image and reality....at least for me anyway.

From the beginning I submitted fully and knowing what lay ahead, but initially there were safewords if needed, and recognition of limits I could not handle at that point which he respected but expected us to work toward discarding. Over a very short time, he did not ask, but I felt the desire to submit myself to him more and did so, which in effect eliminated the safe word but still respected the limits I had.

Some time after that I had a moment I had not experienced in it's intensity before whereby I chose without provocation or expectation to ask for the removal of all limits and rights to complete my submission to his total control. Admittedly he cautioned me twice during my request, checking I was aware of what it meant, and accepted my request once he determined I knew what I was asking for. He has honoured it by maintaining my trust in him to know when it is safe to push through former limits, safe to give him that total control which now makes any restraint impossible no matter the reason, if he so wants and chooses.

So far he has not given me reason to doubt he will attempt at all times to ensure my safety and well being, but he also has made sure I am aware I no longer have the right to expect him to accomodate my former limits if he does not think them necessary or acceptable, or he does not wish to. It is not always easy to do and live with, but does bring about a level of self discovery and evolvement I could not have reached otherwise IMHO.

Catalina

 

[slaveskinky]

Safeword

catalina,
i only wish there had been a safe word for the emotional elements (Sharing) i had to submit too. For *play* i never had need of one.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Re: Safeword

catalina,
i only wish there had been a safe word for the emotional elements (Sharing) i had to submit too. For *play* i never had need of one.

So true, and they are the ones which are the most difficult for me. They fill most of the former limits I had, and he still respects some at this point as he knows to push at this moment in time would not be safe for me, nor worth the risk in his opinion. We work toward them, and test the waters a bit at a time sometimes, but the reality is it is often like 2 steps forward, 1-3 steps backward, depending on the day, the situation, and the communication we share over it.

Catalina