Misery, Love, Relationships and Happiness Ever After...

[catalina_francisco]

I'm not sorry I'm married, and I'm not just existing in the grey doldrums you seem to think everyone but you exists in. Just thinking about M in the sheets curls my toes, and the best moment of my day is the one he comes through the door. But I would not personally choose the rather hippie term "euphoria" for it - it's not a question of other people not admitting that whatever your reality is is possible - the connotation of "euphoria" is not preferable for me to mere happiness. Inferior and dull, I know.

You seem to really latch on to what everyone else in relationships is thinking and their motivation. I have to say I generally look at other people and they're a pretty big question mark to me - I only know what motivates and excites me about my husband and maybe my lover on a good day. I usually assume the better unless I know the person is a chronic repeater of the same thing.

No, I do not think we are the only ones as I said earlier, I have known a few couples throughout my lifetime who are similar to us, but the majority do play up the slog of the hard work, a picture of almost boredom and acceptance they no longer feel madly in love, and in general this view that there is a honeymoon period and then you get serious and forget all that romantic nonsense. Also euphoric isn't my first choice of word, but seemed to be a popular one on this forum so I thought it would be best understood in the language of the masses as opposed to Catalina speak. Me I am much more into the simple word love, or if that doesn't work, magic, even heady...euphoric doesn't usually pass my lips.

I also am not latching onto anything but as I have a long history of examing and trying to analyse bith my own reality and that I see of others, it strck me with a lot of the negativity around relationships and break ups here that it was an interesting topic as I admit I don't have the answers except to say I think as a species, humans have to be at the top of the list for concentrating on negative aspects of ourlives more so than positive. That has increased with the emphasis of negativity throughout media and entertainment, and an almost hypnotic pursuit of using such misrey for entertainment more so than happiness. The response is often, 'where is the story in a happy ending'?

Add to that as you say, there are people who do repeat the same mistakes in relationships over and over, and I have also had to deal with this in my work in the past, it seemed to me to be as good a point for discussion as any we have here simply because I don't think you can ever fully understand love, but you can learn to understand what works for you and what doesn't, and if your lucky, why. Most discussions here could be dismissed as 'I just don't bother thinking about that except in my own life'. Then we would have en empty forum with no discussion and a lot of people sitting arond contemplating their belly buttons and if that really might be the answer to the mystery of the universe. Simply really...my mind never stops, even when I am asleep...why not raise some of the things which cross it just as others do with what they have been pondering?

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

No, I do not think we are the only ones as I said earlier, I have known a few couples throughout my lifetime who are similar to us, but the majority do play up the slog of the hard work, a picture of almost boredom and acceptance they no longer feel madly in love, and in general this view that there is a honeymoon period and then you get serious and forget all that romantic nonsense. Also euphoric isn't my first choice of word, but seemed to be a popular one on this forum so I thought it would be best understood in the language of the masses as opposed to Catalina speak. Me I am much more into the simple word love, or if that doesn't work, magic, even heady...euphoric doesn't usually pass my lips.

I also am not latching onto anything but as I have a long history of examing and trying to analyse bith my own reality and that I see of others, it strck me with a lot of the negativity around relationships and break ups here that it was an interesting topic as I admit I don't have the answers except to say I think as a species, humans have to be at the top of the list for concentrating on negative aspects of ourlives more so than positive. That has increased with the emphasis of negativity throughout media and entertainment, and an almost hypnotic pursuit of using such misrey for entertainment more so than happiness. The response is often, 'where is the story in a happy ending'?

Add to that as you say, there are people who do repeat the same mistakes in relationships over and over, and I have also had to deal with this in my work in the past, it seemed to me to be as good a point for discussion as any we have here simply because I don't think you can ever fully understand love, but you can learn to understand what works for you and what doesn't, and if your lucky, why. Most discussions here could be dismissed as 'I just don't bother thinking about that except in my own life'. Then we would have en empty forum with no discussion and a lot of people sitting arond contemplating their belly buttons and if that really might be the answer to the mystery of the universe. Simply really...my mind never stops, even when I am asleep...why not raise some of the things which cross it just as others do with what they have been pondering?

Catalina

Ok, this makes oodles more sense to me, things really just clicked.

There are some situations not all the positive spin in the universe is gonna cure though, not all mental fine-tuning in the world is going to save.

Sometimes what people do have there is a dead shark. But it's their dead shark.

A lot of people have not been madly in love, but pairing up is presented as the ONLY thing to do in life, so they do - also.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I also assume that people who are living together as mates of whatever kind have their version of this going on, it's not that much of a stretch. I don't look at other couples and go "gee, if only they could know the bliss I know" I go "love, cool."

LOL, well actually I don't think about other peoples relationshiip much at all either unless they mention it and unfortunately there are a lot of people living in a relationship, even just on this forum, who repeatedly express their unhappiness and misery with and ask what to do...so no, not everyone under the same roof lives in bliss and that to me is reality, thankfully not mine...then there are the many who want a relationship and ask here how to get it...so yes, I thought a discussion around relationships, what it means to each person, what they want, what they might be doing to sabotage themselves, why, how it impacts on their D/s or other kinks, might all be a productive discussion topic.

As to personal aspects, apart from saying my head spins regularly, and he has similar reactions to me, I havn't mentioned any personal aspects which I think would constitute deeply private and personal IMO. And yes, my question still remains with just why is it more important to play up the negative, than celebrate the positive...and how is that impacting on relationships and individuals? I know for myself, just seeing the misery so many on this forum are going through on particular days when it seems to be the overriding emotion can get me down somedays, and I am told I am not alone. .

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Ok, this makes oodles more sense to me, things really just clicked.

There are some situations not all the positive spin in the universe is gonna cure though, not all mental fine-tuning in the world is going to save.

Sometimes what people do have there is a dead shark. But it's their dead shark.

LOL, I know, but I am forever the optomist and never give up. I think perhaps that has kept me alive more than once...that little voice telling me 'it just might be possible if...'

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

I'm pragmatic to the core - the one law of romantic love I have is that if it's more misery than fun (and as we know misery can be fun in SOME ways, but it's got to feed your soul) then what are you doing? If you just don't know, make a list or a graph, be objective, look at your own questions on the forum as if they were someone else's.

Some of each are natural. Sometimes misery wins out in the short term, but if it doesn't become the new norm, you're just normal people in love, or normally abnormal for around here....

 

[intothewoods]

I will try once again then and try to word it differently in the hope it makes sense to others. OK, here goes. I see Netzach (and others) post about ups and downs and difficulties....I have always said our relationship is not all hearts and flowers simply because that is what I view as unrealistic over any period of time in any relationship..***** happens, shit happens, problems have to be dealt with and not always are they within your control in the first place. I also see it equated that to feel you still have moments of euphoria and that 'deeply in love' feeling to the point as I described of both F and I having physical and emotional reactions which support this on an almost daily basis...probably at least 90% of the time, maybe slightly more...means you have not reached a depth in your relationship deemed as real.

The difference is that what I am seeing from most is the belief that the euphoria of 'in love' is unsustainable, and equates to sex all day every day (that to me is nothing to do with love, more lust, but may be a physical reaction to love), unrealistic, lacking depth, basically a transitory stage that ebbs away, has to be constant from moment to moment or it is not real or even there. My question is why do most people tend to see the positive aspect of 'in love' as unrealistic because it is not present every moment of every day, and yet feel the negative aspects of struggling, disagreeing, working on it, is the full picture, or perhaps more to the point, the dominant descriptor of the relationship when those moments also do not fill every waking moment of every day? To me it seems embracing the negative is more attractive or acceptable than admitting there is a balance of both and appreciating that such a dichotomy where positive heady moments survive actually exists...why?

Maybe Furry Fury said it best or more simply in her post when she said,

"have to say that I believe stopping and smelling the flowers is important. That is part of what keeps the bliss alive. You have to stop, think about why you love that other person and be grateful to have them in your life everyday. That, for me, helps to keep the magic alive.

Too often we get busy. Too often we only focus on what we are not happy with and take for granted the things that are going well in our lives. If we spent as much time focusing on what we are happy with, we and everyone around us would be happier."


Why is it more people are in a hurry to downplay the romance and talk up the hard work required in any relationship of worth? Is it really true that so many have reached a stage in their relationship where they feel the good and special moments are very rare or non-existant and that a relationship has to seem to be lots of constant hard work for it to survive and be considered real? Could it be that more would survive if they did as FF said and took the time to remember why they fell in love with their partner, celebrate that in very many ways and not just on your anniversary each year out of obligation and tradition, and actually see each other as special human beings and put the 'significant' back into other?

I must admit, if we lived a life where certain things didn't happen for him several times a day by him thinking of me, seeing me, kissing me, or just being in the same room...and I didn't have those moments when my head spun just because he kissed me, touched my hand, smiled my way, walked through the door etc., I would wonder why I got myself into such a sad situation. I also admit it would have a serious effect on my submission and his dominance. Dunno, perhaps it is because of the crap that has happened in my life, and his, that has helped us recognise each other for who we were as people and to each other before we even began this journey, and to appreciate it to the point we do still have those heady moments regularly as well as the depth of knowing we have each other's back, we will remain together because we don't want to be anywhere else, and we will continue to put both the hard work and the pleasant work into our relationship to ensure both the endurance and 'in love' remain real for us. What is so strange and unrealistic about this?

Catalina

Ah, this makes more sense to me, especially after reading Netz and your subsequent posts.

I think one thing to keep in mind is that people sometimes post when they have a problem they need to work out. I also related to Netz's comments about her work.

More importantly, it's fair to ask, when a person refuses to leave a relationship that looks pretty damn miserable, what are you getting out of staying? Maybe we should call it out more around here. I've thought it a few times, but then thought, she's not ready to hear this yet. So I let it go.

I think you're right to point out that glorifying the negative, or drudgery in a relationship is, well, depressing. You know, when I think about it, we tend to do one or the other around here: lament the very low, or froth at the mouth with ooey gooey sentiments rooted in fantasy, not reality. True fantasy. As in, it doesn't exist. I would like to see love as it looks over 20 years in a relationship demystified, but not attacked, you know?

When I say, I could give or take roses, it's not because I've lowered my expectations. My expectations are just different from when I was 18, or even 25. When Mister Man thinks about me when he's at the grocery store, and picks up the things I need for staying over at his house, it makes me ecstatic! When we do things together and solve things as a team, I'm over the moon. That's what I always wanted - to make a family. And yes, when he kisses me, I get butterflies.

But these are early days yet, so I'm not in a position to say, here's what love looks like for us over 10 years, 20 years, etc.

 

[nh23]

Why would you assume that anyone is any different from you who is in a committed romantic relationship on these very basic levels?

Maybe other than having a stronger sense of privacy about those moments?

I talk about it being hard work, because that's where connection with other people gets interesting. There's really nothing for other people to add to or detract from this very private and personal kind of love. I don't see it as up for commentary or review. Maybe that's a bad assumption and I should start a thread about why my boy is the best in the world.

I also assume that people who are living together as mates of whatever kind have their version of this going on, it's not that much of a stretch. I don't look at other couples and go "gee, if only they could know the bliss I know" I go "love, cool."

As analogy, I'm dementedly, passionately happy in my work.

I still work 11-13 hours a day with intermittant lit posts, bitch about sales being down, and pull my hair out when I have a problem with the mail.

I agree with this so much. I'm very private about somethings. I have days where I'm a giggling little girl over how happy I am, and days when my heart is breaking over things that happen in the relationships in my life. But, I choose not to post things like that. I may post a blurt saying I"m happy, sad, etc.. but I'll never go into details. It's a very personal thing to me, and the only people I choose to talk to about either feeling are close friends. Some of us just choose not to post those kinds of things. I know right now I have several friends who probably wish I would though..lol. I'm sure they are sick of my gushing..*giggles*

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

More importantly, it's fair to ask, when a person refuses to leave a relationship that looks pretty damn miserable, what are you getting out of staying? Maybe we should call it out more around here. I've thought it a few times, but then thought, she's not ready to hear this yet. So I let it go.

You are right, it's fair to ask and it's fair to answear as well, so I will tell you WHY I refuse to leave my ex husband. I am a bad speaker, but I will try explain why I do what I do cuz theres alot of people who just don't get what I am doing and I must say I understand that cuz it's hard to explain it, but I will try.


I had very nice day today and yes I am not saying that often nor I am feeling like this often. For now, I feel good. I had some nasty toothache yesterday and this morning, so I had to go to the dentist. I had a lil prob with the "WITH WHO?" should I let my lil baby. My mum or my ex? I wasnt sure really. I must admit I was afraid to let my baby with my ex as I knew I'll be gone for few hours untill I am back. I spoke with my man and told him my mum coming over to watch our girls and he told me "aint I am capable to watch them myself?!!"

I felt kind of stupid and ashamed as well, for not trusting him enough to let them stay with him for few hours. Well I told him "and are you?? Will you REALLY watch our baby?!? I mean, you cannot watch her and sleep while it!!" I really WASNT sure if I can trust him on this and yes it suck.

When we had our first child my man left me so he never really cared of this lil baby yet, I just wasnt sure what he would do if she start crying and didnt stop untill I am back. It wouldnt be the first time, shes lil and usualy calm down only with me. I was afraid he might get angry and be not nice to her if she cried too much. But yes, hes their dad so I felt I should give him a chance and trust him on this, now I am glad I did.

I left to the doc and spent almost 3 hours there. I was nervous cuz I felt I been there for ages and I knew my baby must have already woke up and wanna eat. And I knew she will cry untill I feed her. I was nervous like hell, one moment I even thought of leaving the doc before she fix my tooth as I felt like crying when I imagned my lil baby crying there for damn hours before I am back. Well I stay with hope my ex will handle it somehow. And he did yes. I get my tooth fixed and run back home full of fear how it might look like there.

I entered the building where I live and there was a quiet. I usualy hear my baby crying outside. I entered my flat and still quiet. I was suprised, I really was, in a nice way tho. I opened the door to our bedroom and there they was. My ex, my older daughter and the lil baby, laying all together on the bed and watching cartoons. See them all together and content, even the lil baby, put a big smile on my face.

I came to my ex and gave him a big kiss. "She didn't cry?" I ask. Just a bit, he said. I had to give her a new nappy and then she was okay. "You did WHAT??? " I was shocked and suprised, very nicely. He never done that with our first child. He would never touch the nappy and change it, I am glad he did. He took a good care of our kids, of both of them. I felt ashamed real bad and had to apologize to him. I told him I am sorry I didnt trust him more and I also told him next time I am going out I will let the lil baby with him peacefuly as I see he's being a good dad. I told I love him more and that I am really prode of him and I am.

We went thro many shits together and my trust in him is damaged, alot I must say and for a reason. I am trying to renove what has been broken. Its not easy, but its possible. For some people it would be normal to trust their partner to leave their kids with him, well not for me. There has been promises broken so its not that easy for me to trust him sometimes, but I try. I am glad he's patient with me on this and I am also glad I am still capable to give him a new chance to prove me that "he can be trusted". I need that. Need to know I can trust him. With our kids, with our relationship, with my feelings, with the smal things and that he still will be there when I wake up the next morning. Its hard to explain and its even harder to do it, but he's getting my trust back. Hopefuly not just to break it later..

We had a very nice day together today and I feel the need to share it with ya all, as I feel like most of my posts are often negative, depressed, sad or frustrated and I am really sorry for that. :/

I been thinking about it today alot. Thinking about the "WHY" I feel the way I do at times and I must say I think its cuz I still often fight the depression. I got days when I am fuking okay no matter what and I got days when I am just "down". I am very stable with my feelings for my man and for my Sir, but I am damn unstable with my moods and my emotions. My moods change in seconds sometimes, from VERY HAPPY, kind of euforic feelings to VERY LOW, kind of depressed "wanna die" shit feelings and I must say if I didnt have my lil girl, I would die a long time ago.

Why I am telling you this? I think the way I see things and the relationship with my ex have A LOT to do with this fucked up moods of mine. Like today, nuthing really changed here and I feel just good. Its one of the days when everything feels just "RIGHT".

Why? What happened? Whats better? What changed here?
Guess thats it! Nuthing really changed and nuthings better. My ex still "being" my ex and I am still me. Its just "I feel good". And it seems it changes it all. It changes the way I feel and the way I see things as well. I saw this two quotes "The way we see ourselves is often colored by blues of our depression." "Depression can change the very way we see reality" and I must say its prolly true and its mostlikely WHAT my prob is as well.

I used to be on antidepressant pills few months ago, stoped using them when I get back with my man. I thought I'll be okay and I am, but someway my emotions and moods are still kind of a mess, so it makes me think I am maybe still not over the depression crap. I am usualy okay, but I am still way too easy to fall back into the very low state of mind wich might make me see things worse than they are. I am not sure, but I really think thats why I am bitching about things here that often. It might be more about the a bit fucked up me than about the miserable relationship. Dunno.

My man is not perfect and me either. Our relationship is not perfect either, but today when I saw him laying there with our two kids, I knew I am home. I knew I am right where I belong ya know. We spent this day together. Talking, watching movies, laughing, cuddling and enjoying each other. It felt just right and it felt like we are really meant to be. Me and him, hand in hand, with our two lil girls, kind of a normal and nice family. Thats the way I felt with him today. Loved and his. God, I love to feel just like that!!

You asked

what are you getting out of staying?

On days like this I am getting the nice warm feeling inside. Laying in the arms of a man I love more than life itself. Enjoying his hands stroking my hairs and his cuddles. Laughing with him and watching our two beautiful kids. Knowing that after all we went thro "the love" IS still there. I feel it. On days like this I have no doubt about his love for me. He's still the men with who I fell in love 15 years ago and I still melt under touch of his hand. Its so hard to explain the way he makes me feel.

I love this quotes, it says it quite nicely. Much nicer than I could ever describe the way I feel about him with my own words.

"And even though we've been together for a while, I'm still amazed that you're mine. I look at you from far away and think to myself, wow, that's my boyfriend, look at him! He's so cute, so great, so damn sexy.. simply perfect. I love him so much. When you're near me, I still get butterflies in my stomach and when you touch me I get the biggest smile on my face. I'm so in love with you. Even when i pour my heart out to you, i'm not sure if it shows, that i love you more than you'll ever know. I fall in love with you just thinking about you, remembering all the memories we've made: falling in love for the first time, staying in love during the rough times, finding more to love about each other every day. And whenever I think about all the wonderful things that lay ahead of us, I fall totally and completely in love with you all over again. I've lost myself. There's nothing left. It's all gone. Deep inside of you. That love's never going to die."


I once saw a quote saying something like "What once broke you, can put you back together if your lucky enough". I been fighting the depression since we divorced and somehow I always knew only thing that can fix me, get me back together or how you wanna call it, is the very same thing that have break me.

I felt like a broken toy when my man divorced with me and I really do believe only his love can make me whole again and fix what has been damaged. I might bitch about things here now and then, when I am down or when I feel shit, but dont let me fool ya, I love this man more than words can say! I always will.

I felt so nice with him today. We were watching movie together, me siting on the floor, my head in his lap, his hand stroking my face and my hairs. No need to say I enjoyed this BIGTIME. Knowing I am right where I should be. He had me right there, I was eager to serve him, give to him, anything really. I love when I am like that. With my man and with my Sir as well. Humble and submissive. Wanting just one thing-serve them and make them smile.

This is my answear. For days like THIS, it's worth it yes. And the thing I am getting from it is lots of love from men I love more than life itself.

 

[nickollette]

Ahhh the wonderful and complicated world of relationships. I can accurately say relationships are a hassel, annoying, time consuming and very rarely turn out positive...if it wasn't for the fact that love is far more important to have and even more rare to experience in its genuine/unconditional form, I wouldn't bother with them at all.

I think love has evolved so much over the years, almost to the point of being unrecognizeable. Think of the divorce rate these days, in general I guess and not so much what it is per age bracket. There are so few marriages that survive longer than 5 years now, it's no longer pathetic, more sad, making me wonder if we as humans have lost the ability to love anoher person in today's world. Think of our grandparents, how many of them are divorced? Mine have been married for 50+ years and that bubbly love is still there and stronger than ever, seeing my nana act and giggle like a school girl in the prescence of my granddad is comforting to see. I can only hope to have the chance to experience 50 years with someone that still has the fresh feeling of love that the first year had, whether that's all a naive and wishful thinking, I don't know anymore.

I think love is hard, anyone who's been in love can vouch for that fact. I also think that because of that fact, a lot of people aren't willing to work for it and aren't willing to work at it lasting. I think the mindset for those who don't want to work at it is something similar to, if i can find it once I can find it again, going along those lines though, all that's going to happen is a string of ultimately empty relationships that don't amount to anything past a superficial attraction to another person, no emotional and lasting connection. With that said, I completely believe that it is possible for that initial excitement and initial overwhelming sense of love to last as long as we want it to.

Sure, over time we settle into our relationships, all that is really happening though is that we are becoming comfortable with one another, our love and affection for one another doesn't necessarily need to fade over time. I think once we establish a level of comfort, we enter the mindset that we don't need to try as hard anymore as we thought we had to in the beginning. To an extent, this is true. To a bigger extent, this is completely wrong. While, we don't need to try as hard once comfort and trust are built, we still need to try. All that comfort and trust are doing is making the relationship stronger and more stable and concrete...more "realistic" I guess, allowing our efforts to be more welcomed and appreciated. In the beginning, that little thing you may have done or something shared between the two people that was your thing doesn't need to stop as time goes on.

I personally think that the honeymoon phase only ends when we let it. Yes, we all have our personal baggage we bring with us everywhere, it's our carry on we can't part ways with, but we just need to learn when to keep that bag closed and not open it, for many people though that ability can take a lifetime to figure out. The best thing then would be to be honest and upfront about as much of the major stuff we carry with us everyday as we comfortably can, we don't want to scare the other person off from the get go, but they need to know the person they will be dealing with as early as possible, everything else is just a learning process only time can provide. I have my baggage, it's heavy and a pain in the ass, it's not going anywhere though. I let him know from the get go some of the most major things that a lifetime of friendship with anyone else would be lucky to find out. The fact that he's still around, not only amazes me, but makes me realize I should be fair and give him a shot, if he hasn't left by now then it;s going to take a lot for him to leave, in the meantime I may as well start thinking in relationship terms.

I think relationships in general are just hard and complicated. I think people don't understand that all the stuff we may have to go through in life can only be made easier to cope with when there is another person there to help us through it. It doesn't mean things are any more real than they were before a tough patch occured, it just means that we were able to work through it. The fact that we have these times to look back on with someone should just make any love we share with them more intense and meaningful than the superficial love we shared before getting to know each other over time.

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

I think relationships are what you make of them.

As my Sir says "No one can treat you worse than you allow them".

Erm, I obviously allow some people A LOT, I am working on that.

 

[SubKekiLee]

Ahhh the wonderful and complicated world of relationships. I can accurately say relationships are a hassel, annoying, time consuming and very rarely turn out positive...if it wasn't for the fact that love is far more important to have and even more rare to experience in its genuine/unconditional form, I wouldn't bother with them at all.

I think love has evolved so much over the years, almost to the point of being unrecognizeable. Think of the divorce rate these days, in general I guess and not so much what it is per age bracket. There are so few marriages that survive longer than 5 years now, it's no longer pathetic, more sad, making me wonder if we as humans have lost the ability to love anoher person in today's world. Think of our grandparents, how many of them are divorced? Mine have been married for 50+ years and that bubbly love is still there and stronger than ever, seeing my nana act and giggle like a school girl in the prescence of my granddad is comforting to see. I can only hope to have the chance to experience 50 years with someone that still has the fresh feeling of love that the first year had, whether that's all a naive and wishful thinking, I don't know anymore.

I think love is hard, anyone who's been in love can vouch for that fact. I also think that because of that fact, a lot of people aren't willing to work for it and aren't willing to work at it lasting. I think the mindset for those who don't want to work at it is something similar to, if i can find it once I can find it again, going along those lines though, all that's going to happen is a string of ultimately empty relationships that don't amount to anything past a superficial attraction to another person, no emotional and lasting connection. With that said, I completely believe that it is possible for that initial excitement and initial overwhelming sense of love to last as long as we want it to.

Sure, over time we settle into our relationships, all that is really happening though is that we are becoming comfortable with one another, our love and affection for one another doesn't necessarily need to fade over time. I think once we establish a level of comfort, we enter the mindset that we don't need to try as hard anymore as we thought we had to in the beginning. To an extent, this is true. To a bigger extent, this is completely wrong. While, we don't need to try as hard once comfort and trust are built, we still need to try. All that comfort and trust are doing is making the relationship stronger and more stable and concrete...more "realistic" I guess, allowing our efforts to be more welcomed and appreciated. In the beginning, that little thing you may have done or something shared between the two people that was your thing doesn't need to stop as time goes on.

I personally think that the honeymoon phase only ends when we let it. Yes, we all have our personal baggage we bring with us everywhere, it's our carry on we can't part ways with, but we just need to learn when to keep that bag closed and not open it, for many people though that ability can take a lifetime to figure out. The best thing then would be to be honest and upfront about as much of the major stuff we carry with us everyday as we comfortably can, we don't want to scare the other person off from the get go, but they need to know the person they will be dealing with as early as possible, everything else is just a learning process only time can provide. I have my baggage, it's heavy and a pain in the ass, it's not going anywhere though. I let him know from the get go some of the most major things that a lifetime of friendship with anyone else would be lucky to find out. The fact that he's still around, not only amazes me, but makes me realize I should be fair and give him a shot, if he hasn't left by now then it;s going to take a lot for him to leave, in the meantime I may as well start thinking in relationship terms.

I think relationships in general are just hard and complicated. I think people don't understand that all the stuff we may have to go through in life can only be made easier to cope with when there is another person there to help us through it. It doesn't mean things are any more real than they were before a tough patch occured, it just means that we were able to work through it. The fact that we have these times to look back on with someone should just make any love we share with them more intense and meaningful than the superficial love we shared before getting to know each other over time.

WOW, Very powerful.... loved your words! they are so true....

 

[rida]

Hubby and I have being married for almost 12 years. Living together for 13 and being together for 14. We met 15 years ago.

I never stopped loving him for a moment in all this years, I will never stop. I am still in love if not even more so now than I was when we first got together.

Falling asleep with him next to me and waking up with him next to me is what makes me the happiest.

When I get a thought in my mind, I wish to share it with him. When I see something funny, I wish to share it with him. If I am sad, I wish to talk with him. He is always in my mind, in my thoughts, in my heart.

It has not always been easy. We had our own rough patch. And at the bottom of it I would feel so frustrated, so hurt, so helpless that the heartbreak of being without him felt better than the misery I was in. But I never stopped loving him, and he never stopped loving me. We never gave up on each other. We focused back on why we felt in love in the first place, we remembered the feelings, the circumstances, the reason we felt we were meant to be. And we looked for ways to mend the bridge.

What we have now, is better than the euphoria of the early days, is better than the excitement of the honeymoon phase. Is a warm and shiny feeling of knowing that there is nowhere else we would rather be than with each other. Everyday. Rain or sunshine. Riches or poverty. Health or sickness. Because together is where we belong. For as long as this life will allow us.

 

[Netzach]

I loved my ex a lot. We were really good together in so many ways. I still love him - he's a magnificent human and it makes me so happy that he's with a girl I think is another magnificent human.

But there came a point where both of us finally had to accept, me more slowly and stupidly, that nothing but nothing was going to make these parts, one radically changed forever, fit together in a way that worked.

I don't think that's a huge flop after eight years, six really good and two really trying hard.

 

[nickollette]

WOW, Very powerful.... loved your words! they are so true....

Thanks, I was beginning to think I was rambling and not making sense by the end

 

[catalina_francisco]

Ahhh the wonderful and complicated world of relationships. I can accurately say relationships are a hassel, annoying, time consuming and very rarely turn out positive...if it wasn't for the fact that love is far more important to have and even more rare to experience in its genuine/unconditional form, I wouldn't bother with them at all.

I think love has evolved so much over the years, almost to the point of being unrecognizeable. Think of the divorce rate these days, in general I guess and not so much what it is per age bracket. There are so few marriages that survive longer than 5 years now, it's no longer pathetic, more sad, making me wonder if we as humans have lost the ability to love anoher person in today's world. Think of our grandparents, how many of them are divorced? Mine have been married for 50+ years and that bubbly love is still there and stronger than ever, seeing my nana act and giggle like a school girl in the prescence of my granddad is comforting to see. I can only hope to have the chance to experience 50 years with someone that still has the fresh feeling of love that the first year had, whether that's all a naive and wishful thinking, I don't know anymore.

I think love is hard, anyone who's been in love can vouch for that fact. I also think that because of that fact, a lot of people aren't willing to work for it and aren't willing to work at it lasting. I think the mindset for those who don't want to work at it is something similar to, if i can find it once I can find it again, going along those lines though, all that's going to happen is a string of ultimately empty relationships that don't amount to anything past a superficial attraction to another person, no emotional and lasting connection. With that said, I completely believe that it is possible for that initial excitement and initial overwhelming sense of love to last as long as we want it to.

Sure, over time we settle into our relationships, all that is really happening though is that we are becoming comfortable with one another, our love and affection for one another doesn't necessarily need to fade over time. I think once we establish a level of comfort, we enter the mindset that we don't need to try as hard anymore as we thought we had to in the beginning. To an extent, this is true. To a bigger extent, this is completely wrong. While, we don't need to try as hard once comfort and trust are built, we still need to try. All that comfort and trust are doing is making the relationship stronger and more stable and concrete...more "realistic" I guess, allowing our efforts to be more welcomed and appreciated. In the beginning, that little thing you may have done or something shared between the two people that was your thing doesn't need to stop as time goes on.

I personally think that the honeymoon phase only ends when we let it. Yes, we all have our personal baggage we bring with us everywhere, it's our carry on we can't part ways with, but we just need to learn when to keep that bag closed and not open it, for many people though that ability can take a lifetime to figure out. The best thing then would be to be honest and upfront about as much of the major stuff we carry with us everyday as we comfortably can, we don't want to scare the other person off from the get go, but they need to know the person they will be dealing with as early as possible, everything else is just a learning process only time can provide. I have my baggage, it's heavy and a pain in the ass, it's not going anywhere though. I let him know from the get go some of the most major things that a lifetime of friendship with anyone else would be lucky to find out. The fact that he's still around, not only amazes me, but makes me realize I should be fair and give him a shot, if he hasn't left by now then it;s going to take a lot for him to leave, in the meantime I may as well start thinking in relationship terms.

I think relationships in general are just hard and complicated. I think people don't understand that all the stuff we may have to go through in life can only be made easier to cope with when there is another person there to help us through it. It doesn't mean things are any more real than they were before a tough patch occured, it just means that we were able to work through it. The fact that we have these times to look back on with someone should just make any love we share with them more intense and meaningful than the superficial love we shared before getting to know each other over time.

I loved your post and I guess that is because it pretty much mirrors my own views and musings. Though I never knew my grandparents, I have known a couple (actually a few couples but one in particular) in that age bracket who are as you describe your grandparents and it has been a role model of what I wanted in my own life since my teens when I first got to know them. I had always felt it was possible to maintain that giddy, carefree, loving (or honeymoon phase as some call it) momentum while also having the strength, durability and responsible momentum which comes from going through experiences together, forming that deep bond, and working to keep both aspects alive and healthy....it never seemed to me you had to foresake one for the other, but it did seem that by doing so you were robbing yourself and your relationship of a lot of happiness.

Like you say, baggage always remains to some extent. Sometimes you learn how to handle it, sometimes you get to a point where you can process it from a different perspective than you did earlier and thus let it go, and sometimes you need to be aware that those triggers may remain and let the person you are contemplating being with know the triggers, the history, and why it is still an issue for you. For me, being able to do this has helped the heady 'in love' remain and stay alive, especially when those moments come when he shows he is still aware and takes responsibility for working with those bumps in character and history.

Perhaps our time in history has desensitised us to an extent, helped bring about this feeling of both easy come, easy go. Divorce rates have increased massively and continue to do so in some countries. It does take work to make it work, to get through the bumps together, and I think it takes perhaps a smidgen more to keep that initial lighthearted, dizzying phase part of the whole mix. Relationships of all types and crisscrossing continue to fascinate me and always will I expect. Studying them, pulling them apart (my own more than others), discussing them with others and thinking way too much have all helped me come to this place in my life.

Catalina

 

[Bandit58]

My grandparents were married for 60 years. My parents were close to the 50 mark when my dad died.

I stayed married to my ex for 23 years but a lot of those years were miserable ones. I didn't want to feel like a failure, so I stayed when I should have left, plus I stayed "for the children". I am the only cousin on that side of the family, and in that generation, to be divorced. I know my parents were disappointed in me, but they really didn't know the reasons why I left. I got very good at hiding how unhappy I was.

The emotional abuse was subtle. I did try once to tell my mother what happened, but she didn't want to know. He is her grandchildren's father and she didn't want to hear bad stuff about him. She still has his picture up in her house.

I realise now that I had never been happy in that marriage. Now with Sir, I am like a little kid Despite all the health worries, we are wonderfully happy together.

 

[catalina_francisco]

She still has his picture up in her house.

LOL, though my mother doesn't have an issue with my getting divorced 21 years ago, and feels he has seriously let our children down, she still has a huge wedding picture of us both hanging in her living room which I find disturbing given I am now married to someone else. She has F & my wedding pic which I gave her on the china cabinet below the other one.

Catalina

 

[EmpressFi]

LOL, though my mother doesn't have an issue with my getting divorced 21 years ago, and feels he has seriously let our children down, she still has a huge wedding picture of us both hanging in her living room which I find disturbing given I am now married to someone else. She has F & my wedding pic which I gave her on the china cabinet below the other one.

Catalina

nothing really to add..but that just reminded me. This past weekend, Malin and I were helping his parents clean out their attic and garage as they prepare to move. Up in the storage area of the garage, they found this picture of Malin, his sister's family and his brother along with his brother's first wife. Malin's mom said, "I miss this picture" and our sister in law said, without missing a beat, "well we'll just get a picture of me, blow it up and glue my face in there."

I loved that she realized that the ex had been a loved member of the family back then, a part of the past and was secure enough in her position in the family to make a joke about it.

 

[FurryFury]

LOL, though my mother doesn't have an issue with my getting divorced 21 years ago, and feels he has seriously let our children down, she still has a huge wedding picture of us both hanging in her living room which I find disturbing given I am now married to someone else. She has F & my wedding pic which I gave her on the china cabinet below the other one.

Catalina

That would truly bother me. It hits my "in the red" button. I guess it's just a little too close to home.

 

[serijules]

The love of our grandparents/parents era was harder. Less convenient. They didn't have the instant access to one another in the dating stages that we do now. There are a hell of a lot more things to do, more options, less "rules" and expectations these days. My grandparents came from an age where the man asked a girls father permission to take her out. They often only had one shot at picking a life partner....divorce wasn't an acceptable option if things didn't work out. It was disgraceful to have sex before you were married, so people treated one another much more respectfully, and learned to keep their urges in their pants. Attraction was based on longer, more solid things like common interests, shared ideals, etc rather than "god she has great tits." So they went into a marriage really respecting the vows they were taking because they didn't have the easy outs we have available to us nowadays. It was a "do it right or don't do it at all" era and you know what? It worked. Most of the time, it worked.

These people developed patience and respect for one another in the process of getting to know one another. They often were expected to become a part of the family, to share the goals and opinions of their partner and her family. The "marry a nice catholic boy and have babies" thing. You had to work harder to find someone your family would accept and embrace, because the alternative was just too hard for many people to face. Family support and approval meant so much more back then than it does today.

Nowadays...we are so impatient. We meet someone and marry them without knowing a god damn REAL thing about them. Mother's meet their son in laws 5 hours before the wedding, if at all! (think running off to vegas..) Sex and lust and whatnot come first, and the patience and respect come later. It's a no wonder so many relationships fail. When you build a house straight on the ground with no foundation, eventually it's gonna simply fall apart due to lack of fore planning and understanding of how building a relationship really works.

People often ask me if my relationship with Ma'am is really as wonderful as I make it sound. Sure we have problems, issues, fights and whatnot...but I don't share those not because I'm trying to give an impression of bliss but because of my RESPECT for her. Airing someone else's' dirty laundry is not ok in my book. When I read posts of people asking for advice on how to handle a problem with their partner and I know the partner is not privy to that post....I feel a very strong sense of disrespect happening. Words can be poisonous. I understand the desire for advice and support, but sometimes I really have to wonder about what some people consider to be an acceptable format to getting that support and advice. Shouldn't your partner be your FIRST stop?

As for what Cat is speaking of...I'm on the "love grows deeper" end of the pool here. After so many years, yeah, my heart still skips a beat every time Ma'am messages me. Her looks and touches and kind words make me melt. I don't think that will ever go away, which is awesome. But for me, it's not nearly as significant as the deeper, developed love is. That love is more amazing, more interesting and challenging and solid.

The euphoric, blissful love is "instant", it doesn't require work to feel that. It DOES require work to maintain it, especially when faced with the realities of life interfering with that bliss. This for me is just so much more valuable. Those are the feelings I treasure and oftentimes that love grows stronger having survived something together, having put your skills and insight together and solving a problem in your relationship. Knowing in the middle of a disagreement that we will get through this and our love for one another won't be affected because we've come through so much together already, and we truly respect one another. Focusing on that may seem like focusing on the negativity, but....I just don't see it that way.

It's like when you make something, build something with your own two hands and your own given talent. It's almost always more satisfying than simply walking into a store and handing over cash for something. It's why people are often so obsessed and in love with their favourite hobbies...because they are working and using their talents towards a valuable end result. Instant gratification isn't all cracked up to be. To me, relationships are like this....the harder you work, the more time you invest and the more you are exposed to and survive together....the more solid and worthwhile the end result is. I think people share that most often because they are PROUD of it. Like Netz said, it's kind of a given, or should be, that the other feelings exist, or else why are you even in the relationship?

It's easy to look at your partners face or hear their voice and feel your body and soul light up in pleasure. It's not so easy to feel that same thing when they have just peed all over the toilet seat and you sat down in it, or they've overdrawn the checkbook. The fact that despite those annoyances, the ability to still feel that is THERE....well, that is priceless.

When I see someone post about being unhappy or their partner hurt their feelings...I'm not reading complaining and negativity. I'm reading "I love this person so much that it is very important to me to come to terms and find a solution for this bump in our road". Sometimes in the midst of emotions we don't always word things so well and that is understandable. I still feel it's disrespectful to air your dirty laundry when it involves other people in that manner, but I understand the need and desperation that it often stems from too.

Gah, I'm stopping now, I'm tired and I know I'm not really answering any question that has been posed, but that's what rambled out of my brain tonight.

 

[Netzach]

My Grandparents were one of those couples where they weren't at each other's throats all the time but one would look at them and go "why are these people together?"

I wouldn't call it enviable or happy. And I don't think they had some secret amazing connection that no one ever noticed. I think they had belongings, had kids, and had no desire to change anything radically. I don't think I ever met a happily married couple till I was in college. They were in my department. I think their secret was a remarkable level of independence on both their parts, actually, having really separate identities in a common path.

So my mileage with all that is really different, I don't envy people in the thirties and early forties getting married. I'm elated that I don't feel like I *must* stick out a relationship that no longer makes sense to me.

 

[Homburg]

I'm pragmatic to the core - the one law of romantic love I have is that if it's more misery than fun (and as we know misery can be fun in SOME ways, but it's got to feed your soul) then what are you doing? If you just don't know, make a list or a graph, be objective, look at your own questions on the forum as if they were someone else's....

I have said almost these exact words to countless people asking me about their rocky relationships.

IF (Misery) > (Fun) THEN (Reevaluate)

Both sets of my grandparents did the "til death" thing and I could not understand why (each hated the other in both pairs). My parents are still together, and I cannot understand why (at each other's throats constatnly).

My wife and I are still together and I know why perfectly well. We get on great. Yup, arguments here and there (mostly because I can be an interminable hard-assed bastard), but we just get along.

I have only one actual rule for long term success in a relationship:

Find someone that forgives your faults, and then you forgive theirs.

Stick to that and EVERYTHING becomes much easier. I may be driven to distraction by my gal's pack-ratting, and even bark at her about it, but at the end of the day I forgive it, because it is just not worth sweating. She may hate the bass from my music (it's not loud, she's just sensitive =P ), mindless drumming of my fingers on whatever surface is nearby, but she forgives it. That's how it works.

Is it the secret to life-long passion? Heck no, but it is a whole lot easier to be passionate when you aren't obssessing over petty bullshit.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Is it the secret to life-long passion? Heck no, but it is a whole lot easier to be passionate when you aren't obssessing over petty bullshit.

Oh so true, and a point I think a lot of people get divorced over. A lot of people do go into it thinking it will be perfect, always run smoothly, then they find the little things about each other that annoy and can't get past it to savour the more important and depth things about each others. It is sad, but it is part of human nature. I also think a lot of people stay together out of fear (fear of being alone, not finding another, failure, what people wil think, co-dependence) and/or habit (been doing it x amount of time...too much bother to change things now sort of thinking. I also wonder if some confuse lust with love and vv....I hear a lot of people talk about how they fell instantly in love with their partner, then that ends and another relationship begins and they say the same thing, and it goes on with evry subsequent relationship....but the feeling of physical attraction on first meeting is not love IMO, it has to be something deeper which will still be there whether the physical is going to be possible to indulge or not.

Catalina

 

[EmpressFi]

I have said almost these exact words to countless people asking me about their rocky relationships.

IF (Misery) > (Fun) THEN (Reevaluate)

Both sets of my grandparents did the "til death" thing and I could not understand why (each hated the other in both pairs). My parents are still together, and I cannot understand why (at each other's throats constatnly).

My wife and I are still together and I know why perfectly well. We get on great. Yup, arguments here and there (mostly because I can be an interminable hard-assed bastard), but we just get along.

I have only one actual rule for long term success in a relationship:

Find someone that forgives your faults, and then you forgive theirs.

Stick to that and EVERYTHING becomes much easier. I may be driven to distraction by my gal's pack-ratting, and even bark at her about it, but at the end of the day I forgive it, because it is just not worth sweating. She may hate the bass from my music (it's not loud, she's just sensitive =P ), mindless drumming of my fingers on whatever surface is nearby, but she forgives it. That's how it works.

Is it the secret to life-long passion? Heck no, but it is a whole lot easier to be passionate when you aren't obssessing over petty bullshit.

yep.. I agree with this.. and it reminds me of something my wise mother told me when I was a child... not that I listened to all her marital advice ~

"Just remember this. When you're looking at them and you're thinking you cant take another minute and that you cannot for the life of you remember why you EVER thought of living with them..... They could be looking at you and thinking the exact same thing."

Malin was the one who taught me that it was ok to argue and still be in love. Being with him has taught me so much relationship wise and has taught me to let go of being the type of wife my mom wanted me to be and be true to myself.

Does his driving make me crazy..yes.. so I sleep in the car. Do we drive each other insane by how we phrase something? yes... nearly every day. However, at the end of the day... I know he loves me and I love him. That other stuff.. is just stuff and doesnt drown out the heart of it all.

 

[catalina_francisco]

So my mileage with all that is really different, I don't envy people in the thirties and early forties getting married. I'm elated that I don't feel like I *must* stick out a relationship that no longer makes sense to me.

I actually don't think our mileage has been that different in that my own parents were always arguing and I often asked why they didn't get divorced. That being said, it taught me a lot about what I didn't want in a relationship, and that in fact I didn't see that as being a couple. Getting married again in my 40's was the best thing I could have done, and a lot easier than in my 20's...I had already experienced a bad marriage and divorce, brought my children up, improved myself personally and professionally beyond what I had been told was reasonable and possible, knew myself and my needs so much better as they were past the stage of changing every other day or on a whim, and had a wealth of other life experiences from which to draw and learn from. I thinka lot of people learn valuable things from their first marriage which help the second succeed and function more realistically. I don't feel that because I am over 40 I have to stick anything out that isn't working...that just doesn't make sense to me to even think that at any age. I married a younger man in my 40's, so it couldn't be I think I no longer am able to find someone else if I wasn't happy and that was also how we both felt.

The idea of having a marriage between 2 people who as you say live mostly individual lives also doesn't necessarily speak success or happiness to me either. I have known enough couples who have divorced smply because they had grown so far apart living that way (especially when children are involved and for some it is a side effect of that)...actually one of my oldest friends married his 2nd wife on the agreement they live in separate houses and lead separate lives...it didn't last. I waited a long time and turned down a lot of offers of marriage waiting for if the right one ever came along and was happy to remain single if it didn't and just date or have relationships which didn't include living together or marriage. IMO that made sense as if I didn't want to spend a lot of time with another, didn't want to share my life with them, didn't want to do things together, what was a legitimate reason to live together or get married? I loved my independence, so to give it up even on paper, I wanted more than a room mate I would pass on the way out or in and share a bed and occasional meal with, and the bills. I guess it is another differnt strokes for different folks thing.

Catalina