Morals ethics and tolerance in BDSM

[BLoved]

Since this discussion died seven years ago, allow me to direct your attention to material more current:

Casual 'BDSM' and Emotional Abuse: The Case for Love"

Love and Respect

Promises to Live By

What does Love-based BDSM look like?, Part 1"

A few tips for Submissives questing for a Beloved

If you are looking for evidence of abusive/dysfunctional/immature behaviour within the casual community:
The 'ethics' of casual 'bdsm'
What to do when the Majority can't handle a Minority of One

 

[BLoved]

I've cleaned up the links in my previous post.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Interesting choice to dredge up a discussion that died seven years ago.

Pity you didn't find it before starting yet another soapbox thread. Then again, which is the lesser evil?

 

[sb2009]

I dont' even expect my blood relatives to necessarily share my values. I certainly think that we should take stands and believe in things. What I think isn't going to be what you think.

Values are personal. If I don't like yours, screw you. If you don't like mine, don't screw me.

So what if we're not one big happy family?

Furthermore, what more than simply choosing not to associate with someone do you recommend for those whose behavior I don't personally condone?

Shall we publish black lists? Shall we throw stones?

this, except i've been way too socialized to be a "polite girl" so it's more "If I don't like your, ok, just kinda keep them away from me if it doesn't bother you too much, k?" ;-)

The thing is, in my NOT A PHILOSPHER opinion, the words "morals and ethics" are just too vague. My sister thinks it's pretty immoral for anyone to flirt with anyone other than thier husband - she becomes quite morally outraged at the very thought of non-monogamy, and the idea that a couple would do so brings on a near seizure.

So who is the one who defines what is "moral and ethical" in BDSM? I don't want it to be someone like my sister, or I'd not have any fun at all!

 

[BLoved]

So who is the one who defines what is "moral and ethical" in BDSM? I don't want it to be someone like my sister, or I'd not have any fun at all!

We each choose our own morality and ethics, or we choose to be amoral and unethical.

That is why some people are dishonest, and others honest.

That is why some people are abusive, and others compassionate.

 

[Xelebes]

We each choose our own morality and ethics, or we choose to be amoral and unethical.

That is why some people are dishonest, and others honest.

That is why some people are abusive, and others compassionate.

The consensus seems to be, from your posts alone, to be of the former and not of the latter.

 

[BLoved]

The consensus seems to be, from your posts alone, to be of the former and not of the latter.

And considering the credibility of the majority, I am not concerned about their consensus.

 

[Xelebes]

And considering the credibility of the majority, I am not concerned about their consensus.

The credibility of the majority is important - like in Parliament and in the courtroom.

 

[BLoved]

The credibility of the majority is important - like in Parliament and in the courtroom.

The world was not flat, even though most people once believed it so.

Just as the world did not become round when most people changed their minds.

The majority and reality are not linked, no matter how much you may wish it so.

 

[Xelebes]

The world was not flat, even though most people once believed it so.

Just as the world did not become round when most people changed their minds.

The majority and reality are not linked, no matter how much you may wish it so.

But the majority do define ethics and legality.

 

[BLoved]

But the majority do define ethics and legality.

The majority of the world condemn bdsm.

Will you abide by their judgment?

And if not, why try to judge me by the values of the majority in this forum?

 

[PhaonsBrother]

But the majority do define ethics and legality.

Definitely, the majority define reality. Either you accept the reality and get to commune and atone, or you reject reality and live on the margins of society. There is no reality outside of consensus reality. There is no picture of reality outside of a group snapshot. One person is too narrow to give a complete picture, we are group beings. Without the group an individual is incapable of seeing what's right in front of them.

And he is wrong. The framers of rational reality accept BDSM.

 

[BLoved]

Definitely, the majority define reality. Either you accept the reality and get to commune and atone, or you reject reality and live on the margins of society. There is no reality outside of consensus reality. There is no picture of reality outside of a group snapshot. One person is too narrow to give a complete picture, we are group beings. Without the group an individual is incapable of seeing what's right in front of them.

And he is wrong. The framers of rational reality accept BDSM.

So, according to you, the majority of the world who condemn bdsm are right.

Thank you for your opinion.

 

[BLoved]

Definitely, the majority define reality. Either you accept the reality and get to commune and atone, or you reject reality and live on the margins of society. There is no reality outside of consensus reality. There is no picture of reality outside of a group snapshot. One person is too narrow to give a complete picture, we are group beings. Without the group an individual is incapable of seeing what's right in front of them.

And he is wrong. The framers of rational reality accept BDSM.

Of course, the majority of the world also condemn homosexuals, so I suppose you'll support that judgment as well.

 

[Xelebes]

The majority of the world condemn bdsm.

Will you abide by their judgment?

And if not, why try to judge me by the values of the majority in this forum?

The majority of the world does not condemn bdsm. The majority of the world does condemn spam though. There's laws against it in some countries even, like the US.

 

[PhaonsBrother]

"With the publication of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV) in 1994 new criteria of diagnosis were available describing BDSM clearly not as disorders of sexual preferences. They are now not regarded as illnesses in and of themselves. The DSM-IV asserts that "The fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors" must "cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning" in order for sexual sadism or masochism to be considered a disorder. The manuals' latest edition (DSM-IV-TR) requires that the activity must be the sole means of sexual gratification for a period of six (6) months, and either cause "clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning" or involve a violation of "Consent" to be diagnosed as a paraphilia.[69] Overlays of sexual preference disorders and the practice of BDSM practices can occur, however."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BDSM

 

[PhaonsBrother]

Of course, the majority of the world also condemn homosexuals, so I suppose you'll support that judgment as well.

Critics of these and other controversial diagnoses often cite the DSM's previous inclusion of homosexuality, and the APA's eventual decision to remove it, as a precedent for current disputes.[52] That 1974 decision is still challenged by some, mainly conservative and religious, groups who maintain that its removal does not decide empirical issues relating to statistical infrequency, personal distress, maladaptiveness or deviation from social norms.[53] However, the consensus from the American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, and other institutions in other countries, is that the research and clinical literature demonstrate that same-sex sexual and romantic attractions, feelings, and behaviors are normal and positive variations of human sexuality.[54][55]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagno...l_of_Mental_Disorders#Political_controversies

 

[PhaonsBrother]

If you've read a book in the last 20 years you'd know the masters of reality have accepted many of the once marginal characters.

 

[BLoved]

Critics of these and other controversial diagnoses often cite the DSM's previous inclusion of homosexuality, and the APA's eventual decision to remove it, as a precedent for current disputes.[52] That 1974 decision is still challenged by some, mainly conservative and religious, groups who maintain that its removal does not decide empirical issues relating to statistical infrequency, personal distress, maladaptiveness or deviation from social norms.[53] However, the consensus from the American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, and other institutions in other countries, is that the research and clinical literature demonstrate that same-sex sexual and romantic attractions, feelings, and behaviors are normal and positive variations of human sexuality.[54][55]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagno...l_of_Mental_Disorders#Political_controversies

~smile~

First you say we must abide by the judgment of the majority, and when I point out the majority condemn bdsm and homosexuality, you ignore the majority.

Thank you for demonstrating your lack of credibility.

 

[PhaonsBrother]

~smile~

First you say we must abide by the judgment of the majority, and when I point out the majority condemn bdsm and homosexuality, you ignore the majority.

Thank you for demonstrating your lack of credibility.

The majority don't condemn BDSM and Homosexuality. They haven't for over thirty years. You've just shown you have no reading/reasoning comprehension.

 

[BLoved]

The majority don't condemn BDSM and Homosexuality. They haven't for over thirty years. You've just shown you have no reading/reasoning comprehension.

The majority of people in the world do indeed condemn bdsm and homosexuality.

I have no idea where you got the impression otherwise, or perhaps you weren't paying attention to the fact that same-sex marriage still isn't legal in the States, or China, or India, or Africa, ...

 

[PhaonsBrother]

The majority of people in the world do indeed condemn bdsm and homosexuality.

I have no idea where you got the impression otherwise, or perhaps you weren't paying attention to the fact that same-sex marriage still isn't legal in the States, or China, or India, or Africa, ...

I gave you a data point. The masters of reality in the Western World accept homosexuality. You give me this nonsense. The masters of reality in the Eastern World accept homosexuality too. I can give you that data point if you're curious. BDSM and homosexuality are no longer hidden demons in this world, save for marginal places in Africa, Asia.

 

[BLoved]

I gave you a data point. The masters of reality in the Western World accept homosexuality. You give me this nonsense. The masters of reality in the Eastern World accept homosexuality too. I can give you that data point if you're curious. BDSM and homosexuality are no longer hidden demons in this world, save for marginal places in Africa, Asia.

I don't think anyone misunderstood me, PB.

You appeal to the majority of this forum, and when I point out the majority of the world disapprove of bdsm, you quote the DSM, your "masters of reality in the Western World".

Need I remind you the majority of the people of the world were not consulted when it came to writing the DSM?

It is your choice to discredit your own argument by ignoring the majority of people in the world.

Either the majority determine reality, or not.

The majority once believed the world was flat. Was it?

 

[Stella_Omega]

I don't think anyone misunderstood me, PB.

You appeal to the majority of this forum, and when I point out the majority of the world disapprove of bdsm, you quote the DSM, your "masters of reality in the Western World".

Need I remind you the majority of the people of the world were not consulted when it came to writing the DSM?

It is your choice to discredit your own argument by ignoring the majority of people in the world.

Either the majority determine reality, or not.

The majority once believed the world was flat. Was it?

Andyou make an equally ridiculous claim that the majority are wrong because they are the majority.

 

[BLoved]

Andyou make an equally ridiculous claim that the majority are wrong because they are the majority.

~smile~

I've said nothing of the kind.

Reality is independant of what a majority believes or disbelieves.

There was a time when the majority believed mental illness was the result of demonic posession.

There was a time when the majority believed terrible things about anyone who wasn't white and christian.

Majorities are famous for persecuting minorities.