Negative Feedback Trauma Center

[JADED_ONE1969]

.........

 

[hmmnmm]

I'm not sure if I beers will help or not maybe I should drink more and find out. By the way what is the best operational beer limit? I don't want to over do it.

Trauma Ethics forbids me to give specific advice on this matter. A few may help, or they may harm.

However, convention suggests that the operation of a word machine may result in typographical accidents. So after four, I'd recommend staying away from the word machine, though I know it is not easy.

 

[JADED_ONE1969]

......

 

[hmmnmm]

I get those typo's anyway, I'm not sure it would matter. But I will be guided by you and just have two very strong ciders. when I post the story(if) we will see if it has made any difference.

Now wait a minute. Shared responsibility? Uhhhh. Maybe you should write it with the ciders and then post it later. Or maybe not. It will be your signature on the final document, correct?

Speaking of typos, I found a 'grown' that should've been 'grow' that made me... you know. Must have looked over that sucker five times. There it was, like an alien being planted it afterwards. Only plausible cause.

 

[Elianna]

What I don't get....

"YAY! Great story" on the comment.
50% on the vote.

I mean aren't you contradicting yourself? Or are they just those people who think nothing is good enough to give 100% to? If you truly believed my work was only 2 stars... why? What can I improve? And then don't praise me if obviously something is wrong. I can take negative feedback. Actually I kinda like it as long as it's valid and constructive, but bipolar comments and votes confuse me.

Yay. Good job. (just kidding... you suck?) Hmmm...

Oi.

 

[hmmnmm]

Wouldn't it be great if the real world mirrored the quietude of this FB Trauma Center? Wouldn't it be great if we didn't need emergency rooms? Or anything designed to relieve pain? Wouldn't it be great if there was an amicable mix of the elimination of stupid laws and people behaving themselves, obeying the sensible laws so we wouldn't need any form of law enforcement? Or just the kind where you go to the friendly policeman directing traffic, and ask for directions? Or lawyers and courts? Maybe someday, more likely never.

So...

I got something the other day - no not that - a pleasantly-worded exhortation directly related to a submission.

Maybe three years ago I woulda labeled the FB as 'negative' because I would've thought I should comply and that there was no hope because the exhortation focused on a habit or a tendency that I've always leaned towards, sometimes detrimentally, other times if fashioned better or directed to the appropriate audience, somewhat humorous - off center style.

But in this case, I don't consider it a 'negative' critique. I think of it as 'something to keep in mind' to observe or not to observe depending on the situation.

The gist of the critique went to the effect that the narrative had too many obstacles, that the point of the story got lost or was made difficult to read. This is probably the most recurrent critique I get. Always have. Don't know why. I think I just get into that world and see so many paths to go on, and I like them all, and forget that there must be a destination. That's how I like to go about life. Really. You hear this advice a lot, 'write like you speak'. Which I often do. I mean, people sometimes get pissed off because I seldom succeed in getting to the point. So I think there's no real cure. Maybe management, but it will never go away.

Maybe with a very very very patient editor who's got lots of spare time. And who'd be willing to meet me part of the way. You know? Because sometimes what looks like an obstacle was put there or left there, after consideration. Like the reviewer who suggested that there were too many words in the way, detracting from the story. Now, it so happened that the quoted passage for illustration sake was a passage I really liked because it seemed to have that 'wait-a-minute!-okay-now-you-may-proceed' effect. Whether it was successful or it failed? Across the board? Don't know. I guess if I'd shown it to twenty people and all twenty of them said it threw them off to the point they couldn't get back into the narrative? Yeah, then I'd have to cut it, have a cry, and get over it. What if seventeen of the twenty had a problem? What about those three who didn't? Then you have something to think about. Then I think it's the writer's choice, and be aware of the real risk that you won't reach as many people if you leave that little obstacle there.

I'll suppose the reviewer could've sent me a long list of the places that the story was lost or places where a reader might have difficulty (90% of the story?). In that case, that benefit of another set of eyes, I could then take that list to the kitchen table, and consider each case as it relates to the rest of the narrative. Maybe I'll say, "yeah, that one and that one and that one... I see what you mean. Cut 'em. Or reword them. Fix them. Thanks for pointing those out." But maybe a few of them would be more like, "Hm, nah I can't cut that one. I remember writing that. I like the effect. I know it risks losing a few readers, but I feel like gambling today. Leave it."

So, in the spirit of this quiet Trauma Center, a well-reasoned feedback like I got, put in a way that leaves me room to consider and maybe apply it here, and ignore it there, or go part of the way but not all the way elsewhere.... it's ultimately the writer's choice to go with the flow of convention or against the grain, and don't complain if your choices flop. Maybe if you know why or why you are or are not changing or leaving various passages. Are they intentional? Why? Are they just oversights, caused by too focused intent too long? Didn't back away and clear your head for a couple days, then look at it again?

Ah! I do love this!

Anybody wanna play cards?

 

[hmmnmm]

What I don't get....

"YAY! Great story" on the comment.
50% on the vote.

I mean aren't you contradicting yourself? Or are they just those people who think nothing is good enough to give 100% to? If you truly believed my work was only 2 stars... why? What can I improve? And then don't praise me if obviously something is wrong. I can take negative feedback. Actually I kinda like it as long as it's valid and constructive, but bipolar comments and votes confuse me.

Yay. Good job. (just kidding... you suck?) Hmmm...

Oi.

Ah! You snuck in whilst I was stooped over the table! Are you hurt? Can I get you something?

Hmmm, don't know about the 50% great story situation. Let me think on that. It was great but could've been greater?

Or please, anyone who cares to offer comfort and wisdom. Feel free.

Want some coffee?

 

[The_Fractal_King]

Maybe if you know why or why you are or are not changing or leaving various passages. Are they intentional? Why? Are they just oversights, caused by too focused intent too long? Didn't back away and clear your head for a couple days, then look at it again?

Some passages (usually in dialogue) I leave in simply because they're inane and/or meaningless. Just two people sitting there and talking. It seems realistic to me. Narration however usually runs into that problem unintentionally when I don't step back and reread stuff.

Anybody wanna play cards?

I have a White/Blue deck with me . . . wait you mean like poker or something don't you?

 

[The_Fractal_King]

What I don't get....

"YAY! Great story" on the comment.
50% on the vote.

I mean aren't you contradicting yourself? Or are they just those people who think nothing is good enough to give 100% to? If you truly believed my work was only 2 stars... why? What can I improve? And then don't praise me if obviously something is wrong. I can take negative feedback. Actually I kinda like it as long as it's valid and constructive, but bipolar comments and votes confuse me.

Yay. Good job. (just kidding... you suck?) Hmmm...

Oi.

Maybe anon's finger slipped.

 

[hmmnmm]

Some passages (usually in dialogue) I leave in simply because they're inane and/or meaningless. Just two people sitting there and talking. It seems realistic to me. Narration however usually runs into that problem unintentionally when I don't step back and reread stuff.

I love love love well-done well-placed inanity. Not the inanity of the world these days, but in a song or a story or daily activity. It's a delicate matter though.

And this: for serious erotica it's probably extra difficult. Which is easy to forget when you're talking about keeping the story moving forward or letting it slack off - if you're gonna call it 'erotic' or hope that others will find it erotic then those obstacles or extraneous words probably should go.

I thought of this illustration just a moment ago: me and the missus are frolicking on the bed, I've just pulled her panties down, I'm about to dive in - when all of a sudden someone knocks on the door. Well, the knocking itself can certainly disturb the flow, the moment. But then! not only is someone at the door, but it's two someones - mormon missionaries, jehovah's witnesses, baptists... talk about impeding the flow of an erotic moment. I suppose the deciding factor from then on would be if the hero can overcome that obstacle: after slamming the door in the intruders' faces, can or will he and the missus return to where they were? Can or will they surmount the effect of that interruption? If they did, the nature of their eroticism would certainly be changed from what it was when they began.

Isn't this stuff fascinating?

I have a White/Blue deck with me . . . wait you mean like poker or something don't you?

I love to gamble. I'm just not very good at it. Maybe that's a clue to something.

 

[hmmnmm]

Maybe anon's finger slipped.

Sometimes an answer is that simple.

 

[hmmnmm]

Another late thought and then I'll stop for a bit:

Say you're writing a western. You got everything laid out, the setting, the history, the action. Then it comes to a fight scene with the apaches. Arrows and bullets and shouts whiz all around, horses scream. The hero and his buddy are pinned down behind a big boulder.

When all of a sudden the hero pulls out a cell phone and says to his buddy, "let's get a pizza!"
"Do they deliver this far away?"
"Yeah!"
"No anchovies!"

Now what do you have? Some readers will not appreciate it. Others might. No matter, the writer has to decide whether to keep it a straight western, thereby cutting the brilliant pizza scene, or leave the pizza scene which will forfeit it as a western, but might also allow for the introduction of a rock band and two or three martians.

Or maybe have more than one version.

Something like that.

 

[sr71plt]

Another late thought and then I'll stop for a bit:

Say you're writing a western. You got everything laid out, the setting, the history, the action. Then it comes to a fight scene with the apaches. Arrows and bullets and shouts whiz all around, horses scream. The hero and his buddy are pinned down behind a big boulder.

When all of a sudden the hero pulls out a cell phone and says to his buddy, "let's get a pizza!"
"Do they deliver this far away?"
"Yeah!"
"No anchovies!"

Now what do you have? Some readers will not appreciate it. Others might. No matter, the writer has to decide whether to keep it a straight western, thereby cutting the brilliant pizza scene, or leave the pizza scene which will forfeit it as a western, but might also allow for the introduction of a rock band and two or three martians.

Or maybe have more than one version.

Something like that.

Leave it, making the hook that they are filming an Indie film.

 

[Elianna]

I thought of this illustration just a moment ago: me and the missus are frolicking on the bed, I've just pulled her panties down, I'm about to dive in - when all of a sudden someone knocks on the door. Well, the knocking itself can certainly disturb the flow, the moment. But then! not only is someone at the door, but it's two someones - mormon missionaries, jehovah's witnesses, baptists... talk about impeding the flow of an erotic moment. I suppose the deciding factor from then on would be if the hero can overcome that obstacle: after slamming the door in the intruders' faces, can or will he and the missus return to where they were? Can or will they surmount the effect of that interruption? If they did, the nature of their eroticism would certainly be changed from what it was when they began.

Maybe he invites the two missionaries in... corrupts them... and then the two missionaries frolic WITH him and the missus in bed resulting in a splendid orgiastic scene!

Sorry... you guys were so cute with your debate... I just had to be a little devil

 

[hmmnmm]

Maybe he invites the two missionaries in... corrupts them... and then the two missionaries frolic WITH him and the missus in bed resulting in a splendid orgiastic scene!

Sorry... you guys were so cute with your debate... I just had to be a little devil

And then call for pizza?

Bring in the apaches?

The cameraman?

Wait - that's too many men...

Ah! A chick band. Punk.

not sure about the jehovah's witnesses laying in my bed. Maybe a couple cute baptists.

 

[Elianna]

And then call for pizza?

Bring in the apaches?

The cameraman?

Wait - that's too many men...

Ah! A chick band. Punk.

Sounds like my kind of story. Perhaps they'd make me a cosmo?

 

[manyeyedhydra]

I have a White/Blue deck with me . . . wait you mean like poker or something don't you?

Real men play red cards.

 

[hmmnmm]

Cute baptist chicks. Yeah, that's better.

 

[The_Fractal_King]

Another late thought and then I'll stop for a bit:

Say you're writing a western. You got everything laid out, the setting, the history, the action. Then it comes to a fight scene with the apaches. Arrows and bullets and shouts whiz all around, horses scream. The hero and his buddy are pinned down behind a big boulder.

When all of a sudden the hero pulls out a cell phone and says to his buddy, "let's get a pizza!"
"Do they deliver this far away?"
"Yeah!"
"No anchovies!"

Now what do you have? Some readers will not appreciate it. Others might. No matter, the writer has to decide whether to keep it a straight western, thereby cutting the brilliant pizza scene, or leave the pizza scene which will forfeit it as a western, but might also allow for the introduction of a rock band and two or three martians.

Or maybe have more than one version.

Something like that.

This is why retroactive continuity was created. Have them order the pizza and do whatever. Then later it turns out the whole thing was a dream/alternate reality/out of continuity for no good reason.

Real men play red cards.

lol

Maybe he invites the two missionaries in... corrupts them... and then the two missionaries frolic WITH him and the missus in bed resulting in a splendid orgiastic scene!

Sorry... you guys were so cute with your debate... I just had to be a little devil

I like that solution.

On the other hand it's a good opening for a pseudo-philosophical analysis of the interplay of religion and sex. Not a lot of people are going to get off on that but a few might appreciate it.

 

[Elianna]

On the other hand it's a good opening for a pseudo-philosophical analysis of the interplay of religion and sex. Not a lot of people are going to get off on that but a few might appreciate it.

Oh no, dear. I was looking at is as an utterly sacreligious piece that corrupts those who blithely believe into their religion by seducing them to the pleasures of the dark side....

Don't tell me there's not a little fantasy lurking in many men's minds of deflowering the innocent virgin churchgirl?

This is just a lot more...intense.

(or perhaps it's just me being a rebel against my upbrining...sigh...who knows.)

Now where was that cosmo I ordered?

 

[The_Fractal_King]

Oh no, dear. I was looking at is as an utterly sacreligious piece that corrupts those who blithely believe into their religion by seducing them to the pleasures of the dark side....

There's a ton of sex in religion. You just have to read the right parts.

Don't tell me there's not a little fantasy lurking in many men's minds of deflowering the innocent virgin churchgirl?

That's something of a myth . . .

Actually it would be a crime where I live. Catholic schools phase out the uniform around 14 IIRC. I'm more of a sailor fuku fetishist myself (though that's likely a byproduct of being an tremendous geek).

Now where was that cosmo I ordered?

It's hidden somewhere in this room.

*flings open a random door*

*closes it*

Troll vivisection. I'm going to forget I ever saw that.

Oh here it is!

 

[Elianna]

Thanks darlin'

 

[hmmnmm]

Speaking of sex and religion.

There are, you know, people who spend their lives believing they have serious spiritual problems if they masturbate. I've been around those sorts of people, but not lately, thankfully.

But I was thinking of that last night and somehow ended up on a site that condemned the practice. It was really informative. The best part though, was the section that had all these personal stories from people who 'struggled' with masturbation. How it ruined their lives. Made it sound like they were hooked on heroin or something. Just couldn't stop.

They would make great stories. Only personal integrity stopped me from ripping one of them and posting it here, but I don't know if it would go in Humor or Masturbation. Well, being that I find ripping off another's work pretty immoral, I guess the more moral thing would be to write a fresh one. The more I think about it, the better it sounds. Maybe?

If I don't do it somebody definitely should. Or whoever. They are stories that really should be told. Negative feedback or no.

 

[The_Fractal_King]

Speaking of sex and religion.

There are, you know, people who spend their lives believing they have serious spiritual problems if they masturbate. I've been around those sorts of people, but not lately, thankfully.

But I was thinking of that last night and somehow ended up on a site that condemned the practice. It was really informative. The best part though, was the section that had all these personal stories from people who 'struggled' with masturbation. How it ruined their lives. Made it sound like they were hooked on heroin or something. Just couldn't stop.

They would make great stories. Only personal integrity stopped me from ripping one of them and posting it here, but I don't know if it would go in Humor or Masturbation. Well, being that I find ripping off another's work pretty immoral, I guess the more moral thing would be to write a fresh one. The more I think about it, the better it sounds. Maybe?

If I don't do it somebody definitely should. Or whoever. They are stories that really should be told. Negative feedback or no.

The best thing to say to people like that (especially if he/she is a fundamentalist Christian of your sex) is something along the lines of:

"I could do it for you."

 

[Elianna]

*Rolling with hysterical laughter*

I was raised in a church just like that! Believe me, I've heard the stories! I think it would make a great, dark tale.

I can see it now... the SIN... but never once telling the reader what the sin was... going through all the mental agony... the horror, the horror... only to have him/her do a full out session in the end thinking "I'm going to hell!"

Tee hee hee