New Punctuation Marks

[cahab]

Cahab: you've hit the wrong chord w/me. No, no, no! Please don't dumb-down Sh're.

Sorry P, should have added a .

Shortly appearing in a production of Twelfth Night nowhere near you (unless you are coming to West Yorkshire sometime soon).

I nearly choked when someone brought in a line by line translation of the scottish play (can't quite bring myself to even write it, how odd), in comic book format, to one of my lessons. Yeuch.

I would prefer the sort of punctuation above to some of the translations in the notes of some copies of Shakespeare.

 

[Guest]

Shortly appearing in a production of Twelfth Night nowhere near you (unless you are coming to West Yorkshire sometime soon).

Who are you playing? Tell me about it, PM me sometime. Actually, I collect Sh're editions, for the various notes. But I also buy the comic books for fun. I do NOT get those modern-English translations. Having fun yet? P.

p.s. do you mean the U.K.? Why did I think you were from the e. coast?

 

[cahab]

p.s. do you mean the U.K.? Why did I think you were from the e. coast?

I tend to assume that the readership in here is mainly US, so throw in americanisms whenever I think they will require the least explanation. Although I have noticed a couple of other yorkshire folk hanging around.

 

[Alex756]

I guess we've already got new punctuation marks: smileys.

They're great if you don't mind your stuff looking like it was written by an adolescent girl who dots her i's with little hearts.

---dr.M.

Ahhh there is nothing wrong with dotting your i's with hearts

XOXOX
Alex756

 

[ag2507]

I tend to assume that the readership in here is mainly US, so throw in americanisms whenever I think they will require the least explanation. Although I have noticed a couple of other yorkshire folk hanging around.

There's now't so queer as a y'rks'hre lad lookin' down't nose at fur'ners. Since when has anyone understood a word uttered by a Yorkshireman: or listened to it. Interesting thopught though: Twelfth Night in dialect. Viola gets lost on the moors, Count Orsino has this castle overlooking the Hogs Back. Hmmm...

AG

 

[cahab]

There's now't so queer as a y'rks'hre lad lookin' down't nose at fur'ners. Since when has anyone understood a word uttered by a Yorkshireman: or listened to it. Interesting thopught though: Twelfth Night in dialect. Viola gets lost on the moors, Count Orsino has this castle overlooking the Hogs Back. Hmmm...

AG

I hardly know how to begin a reply to your thopughts, whatever they may be. However:

1) Your dialect's dreadful. Thez nowt so queer as a yokshur lass lookin' down 'er nose't yanks. Though technically that is an accent, not a dialect.

2) Lots of people understand yorkshiremen: research has been carried out which states that a mild west yorkshire accent is considered the least offensive by the entire country, and so it is host to most of the countries telephone call centres.

3) Lots of people listen to yorkshiremen; we're not all farmers you know. e.g. Percy Shaw, inventor of cats eyes; Thomas Spencer, joint founder of Marks and Spencer; Henry Moore, Sculptor; Christopher Saxton, Cartographer to Queen Elizabeth 1; Viscount Herbert Henry Asquith, former Prime Minister; Sir Donald Bailey, inventor of the "Bailey Bridge"; Herbert Smith, aircraft designer; Benjamin Henry Latrobe, architect of the White House, Washington DC; Lord Wilson of Rievaulx, former Prime Minister; and J.B. Priestley, author and playwright, to name but a few. I could go on, but I see your eyes glazing over.

4) Northern Broadsides perform Shakespeare in dialect all the time (without changing the plot, thank you). They did Twelfth Night in 1999. For more details you can go to http://www.northern-broadsides.co.uk/Pages/prev_twelfth.htm.

5) I wasn't 'looking down my nose' at anyone. I was simply stating a fact. Language is different from one side of the Atlantic to another, and one might as well cater for the majority if it's easier.

6) If you check my profile you'll see I'm a woman, last time I checked.

 

[ag2507]

I am a Yorkshireman

So I think I'm allowed to be a bit snarky. And broad yorkshire, uninfected by the BBC is pretty incomprehensible though hard to find these days. I used to listen to sheep farmers - you had to listen very hard!

I was horrified at anyone admitting to adjusting ther language. I ran into that issue writing brochures and did some research: there are very few britich idioms that are not ideomatic to some part of the USA. I did learn to write for an 11yr old audience though: frustrating as it is; but that I would never do in a literary context.

Didn't mean to upset you though: it was supposed to be mildly funny, not critical. Cahil offers no clues and your profile doesn't confess to either - but then none of them do. I am guilty of presumption: to be honest I don't even remember using the word lad (guy here in the us applies equally to men or women): if fell of my fingers unremarked and of course man here is homo not vir.

AG

 

[cahab]

Re: I am a Yorkshireman

So I think I'm allowed to be a bit snarky. And broad yorkshire, uninfected by the BBC is pretty incomprehensible though hard to find these days. I used to listen to sheep farmers - you had to listen very hard!

I was horrified at anyone admitting to adjusting ther language. I ran into that issue writing brochures and did some research: there are very few britich idioms that are not ideomatic to some part of the USA. AG

I'm not really upset, just a little annoyed that anyone (much less a yorkshireman) would attempt to sell such a stereotypical view. If such a view of the scottish, welsh, asian chinese or afro-carribean were perpetuated I would be equally horrified. Being within the minority is not an excuse; the words we use inform tthe opinions of people other than ourselves.

As for adjusting our language; tish and piffle! Or, if you prefer, crap and fucking bullshit! We all adjust our language all the time. I work in a school where I have to mediate my language in a particular direction. It is changed a different way when I talk to my schoolfriends, new migrant friends, my parents, my old lecturers from uni, and the children down the street. What's the big deal? Are you saying we shouldn't take the needs and understanding of other people into account?

Finally, for the benefit of those unused to the situation over here; the UK is split between the southern third of the country (with roughly half the poulation) and the northern. The economy, language, skills and education of the two halves are divided somewhat in favour of the south, and there is a south-centric view of the country by the media to go along with it. I am often frustrated by it; and unthought-through speeches like this do not help.

Sorry to rant at evryone, but he pressed one of my buttons, and not a good one.

 

[Guest]

Yorkshireness

Cahab, good points in general.

Go to the "Yet another underage question" thread for a beautiful post from Gauchecritic on what it means to be Yorkshire; one of the best things I've read on Lit.

Perdita

 

[jon.hayworth]

if like me you can remember the 60s then you will also remember there was a movement against all punctuation if i remember correctly this included no capitalisation however the pioneer of this form of writing was i think the irish writer james joyce who in the final part of ulussese penelopes story used no puntuation for the whole chapter that is over 50 pages long in my penguin edition unfortunately i do not have it handy as someone borrowed it and i have never got it back i know this is a bore to read but i wanted to show those who do not know what it is like to read a totally unpunctuated piece of work

On a serious note I have just finished reading Anthony Burgess "A Dead Man in Deptford", and at times found his somewhat minimalist punctuation (no speech marks) initially difficult to cope with - although I believe he did this for a good reason, I am not sure that it helped the average reader - such is the problem of writing Historic fiction.

jon

 

[gauchecritic]

Cahab,

(Sorry jon. diverting once more from the original topic. Quite enjoyed your example though. I thought you were actually talking rather than writing)

Cahab,

Are you me?

Gauche

 

[Guest]

Cahab, Are you me? Gauche

Knowing and enjoying both your (Ca. & Ga.) work I would love it if you were the same person(ae). My first androgyne crush.

Purr/dita