other people's messes

[dolf]

incubus'_sub, i've known people like this....
personally i've only told 3 people RL (my sisters and my now ex) about some of what happened to me, the rest of the world i'd rather just see who i am rather than pity me. i need some release and online i get that but i think you're right about inflicting it upon the world, not a good thing to do.
xx

 

[incubus'_sub]

Good for you. The trick is to remember what happened as an experience, not the dreaded "abuse" word. As soon as someone says abuse to me now I start to switch off. The word itself is so abused that it can mean either being hung, drawn & quartered or that someone called you a nasty name when you were 6.

Remember your life's experiences. Learn & grow from them, the good & the bad equally.

 

[dolf]

incubus'_sub, i got this thinking from observing a friend of mine many years ago. she actually used to use her rape as a chat up line (i kid you not!) and it horrified me worst thing was, it actually seemed to work. hearing her talk about it to vertual strangers in bars was truely cringeworthy and i promised myself i would never be like that.
xx

 

[RJMasters]

The implication here is that the dominant is the one who has to deal with issues in submissives. In fact, two of my submissive friends have had to struggle with issues in their dominant partners lives. It cuts both ways.

Great point FungiUg!

 

[Netzach]

My family is truly and hugely insane. I would not really use the A world, I'd just say that there's no parenting, a lot of alcoholism and self neglect and a a distinct woody allen "raised by wolves" feeling to it all.

So M, with his generally gentle and accepting family background, and we all have our troubles and tragedies and craziness just different kinds, winds up coaching me with my demons more often than vice versa.

His gentleness is calming and disarming to my sometimes raging reverting. No one in my family is kind on first impulse, always combative. He is helping me learn how to be more humane, and I love him for it. If I can't have the humility to let his strengths teach my weaknesses, I'm not using my submissives' talents and advantages, this is far more useful to me than someone to do my dishes and rub my feet.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Yep, you reach a certain age where nearly everyone has some baggage.

So what do I do? I patiently build trust and focus on open communication. I stay patient with the submissive unless I observe that she is "not trying" or using baggage as an excuse to insulate herself from having a fully functional relationship. Some rate of modest growth that deepens the trust/intimacy is an ongoing requirement for a relationship. If it ain't gonna work, I do have the good sense to move forward and say goodbye.

 

[Guest]

Non Envy

So...

Good to know that I am not alone in this one. How do you guys, as dominants or submissives, productively engage with this past experiences/experiences of others?

How, if in the terribly and awkwardly difficuult position of a dominant dealing with an injured/abused subbie, do you handle and heal this person that you treasure and prize, with sensitivity, while still envoking the forcefulness of will and body appropriate to the power exchange?

I have found so little helpful writing or enlightened commentary on this subject.

And that concerns me on a whole different level.

Let's keep this going, ya'll, please. If only to vent the spleen, let's keep this going.

Slowly...VERY slowly...with LOTS of setbacks.

Essentially what you describe ..
Is like I just took you..
Blindfolded you..
Handed you a salad fork..
And started you on your merry way into a minefield..
With the sure and certain knowledge that if you screw up.
One: you may not be entirely sure how you did it.
and Two: It may not really be something you can work your way around within a D/s concept.
And Three: It WILL hurt them, more than it does you.

Good thing they're worth it, isn't it??

 

[Netzach]

Me, I strongly encourage my bottoms in a pickle to seek therapy, that's how I help them. Leave it to the pros inasmuch as possible, act like an interested and supportive partner or friend as the case may be. I can't say I have *never* participated in cathartic scenes, but I won't do them with someone who's never sought any other outlet or actively done anything to *help themselves* if I can help it.

 

[FungiUg]

Cathartic play is a whole 'nother kettle o' fish, and you're right. Best not to go there.

I mean, how am I to know if I am helping work through an issue or reinforcing an issue?

That's why we have professionals. I do understand that re-enactment can be cathartic, but... I don't know enough to be in control or participate in something like that.

 

[kitty4ever]

Yes, I think it does cut both ways. But, I do think you shouldn't carry your undealt with problems around with you, even if the person that is interested in you says many things about wanting to help you deal with them. No one 'fixes' another, although you can be there to support him or her. You can only fix yourself. Some people should have therapy. I have, and it does help in learning techniques in dealing with hurts and issues.

I'm not getting into my story, but I have recognized what caused me to be hurt again, and I've stopped that behaviour. But, part of that is not being in a relationship, not giving into that craving inside me. One day, I will be strong enough (yes, I said will, not may, I have refound hope), but I've recognized that I may lose my chance at 'the one' (I hate that term, but couldn't think of another one) or have already lost it, by my self-imposed 'exile'.

I think that's a large part of any healing, and if you are helping your pyl to heal, he or she must do this. TigerClaw made that comment to me once. Look deep inside and find what caused it. That is what you have to fix any issue. Treating the symptons only work in the short-term.

Now, what can you do as a PYL?
a) Listen, but also be there to knock some sense into your pyl, if needed.

b) Learn the triggers, try to avoid those that you can, but realize the ones that are unavoidable. Unfortunately, with bad damage, he or she often becomes more sensitive than others would be with the same comment or action. Mine is yelling. My husband would yell and yell at me, raising his voice to argue his point. Now, I fight not to cry at a raised voice.

c) Look and recognize if your pyl is using it as an excuse for either sympathy or a shield. In many ways, my refusal to get involved is my shield, but I use it as a deliberate shield so as to not fall back into a bad habit before other issues are dealt with. If he or she is caught in a cycle, or using it, then there are other issues to be dealt with and your choice will be working through those or ending the relationship.

Yes, I'm sure there are other things that you can do, but I'm not a PYL, so I'm not aware of some of the nuances of that side of the equation. Also, every relationship is unique and must be dealt with in its own way.

Good luck, and I would not wish the frustration you feel on anyone.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Re: Non Envy

Slowly...VERY slowly...with LOTS of setbacks.

Essentially what you describe ..
Is like I just took you..
Blindfolded you..
Handed you a salad fork..
And started you on your merry way into a minefield..
With the sure and certain knowledge that if you screw up.
One: you may not be entirely sure how you did it.
and Two: It may not really be something you can work your way around within a D/s concept.
And Three: It WILL hurt them, more than it does you.

Good thing they're worth it, isn't it??

...and for a submissive dealing with an injured Dominant...just reverse everything he said...except the last line.

 

[TigerClaw]

I would not venture to go this route again.

I have to say I failed miserable on this topic. Once you are in a relationship you are going to take both barrels whether you like it or not, deserve it or not.

The obvious comes to mind. Listen, be patient. Dont react to the things you recognize as stemming from a previous relationship or circumstance. If your partner was hurt deeply this can be extremely difficult to do.

If it is extemely bad I equate it to an alcoholic or drug addict. They have to want to heal. If not anything you do, all the understanding in the world will not be enough. They will look at you through jaded eyes and expect, know, or think you mean something else.

One comment that I received that put it all into perspective for me Months later was I said,

I Love You

the response was,

"I dont know what you mean by that."
***********************************************
One thing just came to mind. Make sure they have or can make some good friends. Someone they can talk to openly and honestly along with you. (this is a big chance that this friendship could become more)

I rekindled a frienship with a HS classmate. She is one of the few people that know all the details. She was/is a cornerstone for me. She knew me in HS and knows me now. Basically she knows me. Her fiber, strength, backbone is like me amongst just plain speaking the same language. She is married and has no compulsion to cheat. I dont either which makes this so much more important to me. I can talk to her as a Man to Woman friend and get a females perspective.

Recently I posted about Unconditional Love. I told her (my friend) how I dont believe in it. She told me she disagreed. Unconditional Love is also knowing when to apply Tough Love. If you will be harmed by your partners actions you can push them away. Let them know what they did was wrong. One of the penalties for that is your seperating yourself from them.

I was willing to risk loosing US because what went on was Wrong. You have to be prepared for the worst. You (which I was not) have to be prepared to recognize what is you and what is from the past.

Your partner has to be willing to talk to you about it. They have to be willing to work it out. If not, you have a very very very difficult path to follow. I wish you all the Luck and Wisdom I did not have.

*************************************************
Some of you know. The night the reality struck home. I walked out to my jeep after checking that my apartment was vacated and I had my life back. That night was bitterly cold.

That night the warmth in my heart that was created and nurished by her was gone. The cold seeped into my skin. It sunk deep down to my soul. It was like Death had touched my soul. I felt dead inside. No Hope, No Love, No Life, No Wish. Nothing. The World was Dead to me.

There was only one thing that allowed me to go on at that moment. The knowledge, sad as it was, I was better off without having what was being done to me. I was better off without her in my life.

***************************************************
[At first]
I thought I could move on. In the process, from my pain I hurt a number of women. I was also swayed by some women who gave me selfish advice. I saw my hurting some women and I was meeting women who were hurting me.

[a while later]
Now this is important. I dont know how this can be used as a partner helping another. But this is what I did shortly afterward.

1. One night I stopped everything. I mean everything. Before I did anything I asked one question was this good for me? Nothing was done until and unless the Answer was Yes. The only thing that mattered was ME. I came first in everything. I had to fix me so I could be important to someone else later.

2. I identified the damage done to me. What was I doing, saying that was not like myself.

3. Figured out ways to fix the damage. In my case I stopped asking women out. I became friends with them first. Why? Because I didnt want to lash out at them. It was not there fault. An interesting thing happened. I started to see signs of who was not trustworthy and who was and in what capacity. My biggest problem was suspicion.

4. I had to figure out what she did. Wanted. Expected. Of course all without help from her. But then again I never had her honest word even when she was here to ask. Luckily, I had started to look into things she had told me while we were still together and I was able to find out what the truth actually was. This knowledge of knowing what she told me vs what the truth was helped a great deal.

In your partners case it may not be truth or lies but something else. Your partner has to figure out what that other person(s)wanted or was doing.

5 Have your partner write down what they hated, liked, ashamedly liked, really disliked about that other person(s). What did they dislike in themselves. What did they like and saw was so very good that the other person just could not see. This could invovle talking to you or just talking or yelling as if the other person is there. They will come to a point where they realize it does not matter. What matters is them.


There is so much more. I really should write it down. I hope this helps. One side effect to all of this is that I hope and pray a couple makes it through the rough times.

 

[Slut_loves_pain]

i've seen this too

incubus'_sub, i got this thinking from observing a friend of mine many years ago. she actually used to use her rape as a chat up line (i kid you not!) and it horrified me worst thing was, it actually seemed to work. hearing her talk about it to vertual strangers in bars was truely cringeworthy and i promised myself i would never be like that.
xx

I 'had' a friend who did that. She'd sit in a room full of guys after the bar had closed and we were having drinks or at a small party and literally 'enthrall' them all with her horror story. I dont think she had bad intentions when she did it and in all honesty I probably did it at some point too, but I do see it as incredibly unhealthy and in some ways risky behaviour. I mean what if there was a guy there who was a predator and thought oooo easy victim????

I think it is the Dom/me's role to be supportive. But not his role to 'fix'. The only person who can 'fix' is the person themselves with outside help from a Therapist etc.
JMTCW