Personal Information and the boards

[KillerMuffin]

There is an essential problem here, DVS.

Your claim is that the following:

No offense intended, but you can usually tell a one-handed story because they aren't very good. They're repetitive, the dialogue is often contrived if it's there at all, the details that make it hot are missing, proper paragraphing is non-existent, and when sex actually happens it's a short blow-by-blow laundry list with redundant dialogue or a lot of capitals. The author is too caught up in his or her own arousal to think the story through enough to consider a reader that s/he doesn't know, the parts of writing that require full concentration, or judicious detail.

It's quite possible that I'm too picky when it comes to what I read, but I reserve the right to be that way.

Seems KM requires another soapy hosing?

Is just a bit of harmless dry humor. It wasn't intended to be nasty, mean, or harmful. Further, you actually expect everyone to believe that.

I don't know you from the pixels on my screen and I don't understand how you could find the unmitigated gall to presume such familiarity as a joke. I also don't understand why someone would take something highly sexual from one forum and use it in another place dedicated to writing and consider it appropriate.

If you disagree with me, say so. If you think I'm being bitchy, say so. If you think my remarks or my attitude are out of line, say so.

You'll notice that WSO did just that. She got her point across without snideness and without insulting anyone.

You call it dry humor. I call it snideness. I don't know you from a hole in the fence. Your presumption of familiarity wasn't very well thought out. This isn't the first time someone has started shit and then tried to pass it off as "humor" or a "joke" to weasel out of being an asshole.

I do believe you owe an apology to Wifeseducer for starting a side confrontation in his thread. It's bad enough that he had to deal with me and my opinions without your fingers in the pot deliberately stirring the shit with every single post you made to it.

 

[DVS]

I stand completely behind what I have said. If you read my posts in this thread, you know what I see to be true.

Obviously, you don't have to agree with me. And, that is OK. You have your life to lead and I have mine.

I never meant any harm. If you can't understand that, I am sorry.

 

[wildsweetone]

a thought or two to share in my humble opinion

mainly to KM and DVS,
as i see it, DVS made a comment on the authors thread about something begun on a BDSM thread by KillerMuffin. DVS is a newish author to Lit and didn't realise that rules, written and unwritten, existed. KillerMuffin was astonished to discover the referral by DVS on the author thread and reacted badly.

now. it's time to apologise to each other. DVS needs to apologise for not knowing the rules. KillerMuffin needs to apologise for the way she reacted.

this is not going to disappear while everyone keeps niggling on and on.

it happened, get over it. sort out things so it is less likely to happen again.

***
'BDSM Forum Rules

1. No spam
2. No personals ads
3. No posting of another's personal information
4. No posting of your own private email addy
5. No threats'
***
these are the rules posted clearly at the top of the BDSM forum.

- Should similar rules be posted clearly at the head of ALL forums on Lit?

- Should the 'stickies' be introduced into each thread at the beginning before the first posting?

Being mainly a 'story feedback' and 'author hangout' author, i don't tend to frequent the other forums. I didn't realise the rules above existed. I've just used common sense and respect mainly.

New authors don't always read all the rules. New authors don't learn the ropes until we existing authors tell them they've overstepped the mark. New authors don't know the unwritten laws of each forum.

maybe it's time to look ahead and begin anew.

ps. no offence intended at all. we are all adults, authors and readers in here. i respect you.

 

[James Blandings]

>>>The exact words of KM in this particular case were


Now, maybe someone close to her understood this to mean the BDSM forum, I don't know. But, to an outsider or to a person new to this forum, it could also mean the whole Literotica web site.
I, being new here, saw that complete thread and didn't think a thing about posting the simple little phrase I did. I say simple little phrase, because that was what I thought it was. Maybe my sense of humor is not the same as yours, but I didn't mean it as an apparent attempt to diminish her in any way.
Of course I am the bad guy here, so any attempt to explain this will most probably fall on some deaf ears. <<<

On the contrary, i think your presentation of your side of things has gotten a fair hearing. What you have not explained is what your motivation in making the comment was, if not to snidely diminish KillerMuffin's standing in the discussion.


>>>As for my post being a breach of the social contract that prevails here, I don't quite see how I can yet be part of any unwritten protocol that surrounds this site. I didn't even know of an unwritten preference not to cross post. And, if there is a written rule that says you can not cross post, it hasn't been found.

Maybe after I have been here for a while, I will better understand what this social contract is. I do understand cliques and social associations, and how some members within can take a remark and view it as coming from an outside hate. This is not a fault, only someone seeing something from a certain point of view and nothing more. In this case, that point of view seems to be coming from the people who understand this unwritten social contract. <<<

I do not consider myself to be a member of any clique. i am a free agent and speak only for myself. The inappropriteness of taking a comment from one thread and using it out of context in another seems to me to be self evident. YMMV.

>>>I would like to say this could surely happen again. If it is possible to have this put into words, it would probably be a good idea. No one wants to be ostracized for something so easily contained.<<<

I see no sign that you have been ostracized, On the contrary, you have been fairly actively engaged , have you not?



>>>This is basically inaccurate. From what I understand, all I did was take information from one forum and, in my own words, reference it in another forum. The information was not fabricated. I did term it in my own words, but that was only my dry sense of humor. But, you may or may not agree with it being humor.

Now, if I did like to dress up as a French maid and get spanked, you could possibly reference that in a general post. But, I think your example is much more blatant than what actually happened in this instance. In all actuality, it truly wouldn't bother me, if it were the truth.<<<

The point is not whether or not such a comment would bother you personally, but if it would be appropriate to the discussion. Personally, i do not think it is proper to try to marginalize another's opinion by reference to their sexuality.

>>>By the way, I have no problem discussing any of my kinks, so please feel free to ask. I am a very open person, and will answer any and all questions truthfully. And, if you want to discuss something on a person to person basis, this is fine, too. Constructive communication is always good when new to a venue. On the contrary, destructive condemnation is exactly what is not needed. Thanks, if you got this far. I appreciate you caring enough to read.<<<

Sorry, but I felt your comment was condemnable and I condemned it. I try to get along, but I don't pull my punches either. But this does not mean I don't welcome you to the forum and look forward to reading your thoughts on other topics.

 

[HotXBunz]

Hey KillerMuffin, you could be like me, start out playful and kidding and then turn into an asshole after I thought about the whole thing. LOL

I guess the bottom line at this point is that we have found out how much we value the cohesiveness of the group. In our community it is just understood (and posted) that what is said here stays here. The first time I posted on Lit (my very first forum experience period) I got blasted by someone and Cymbidia was kind enought to tell me what I did wrong. It is this kind of guideance that helps the newbies along.

For the newbies, it helps if they want to be a part of the community to begin with. IMO the hard to hear feedback does'nt sting as bad if one is serious about being a part of what is going on. We are going to goof up. What we do with the goof up is merely a matter of character.
I read a link from someone on this forum about the "old guard" in the lifestyle and how people were basically watched before they were allowed to become part of the group. Their character was scrutinized. Then they were groomed, guided and helped in the ways of BDSM. It was only after they proved themselves that they were given the insider information. I am not saying we need to do this, we are free of cliques here, but it is just an example of how different communities handle newcomers. Newbies have it easy here.

In this community we are equals but that does not mean you will not be thwaped for doing something that hurts someone's feelings or for breaking the rules. We value communcation on and off line.

I share DVS type of humor and can see where he may be doing a royal "what the fuck". I also share a deep respect for privacy and can see how KillerMuffin felt betrayed and disrespected by DVS making reference to the expressly proclaimed, personal information on another forum. We are way past all of that and need to seek resolution to the situation.

If nothing else we have been given still another reminder that what we have here is really special and needs to be protected and respected at all cost. If we all act with respect toward one another that will go a long way in avoiding these situations in the future.

How about a big group hug? (groan)

 

[cymbidia]

DVS, i'm not going to post something "offensive" you said elsewhere, here. We all know the post my original comments referred to, even you.

I think wildsweetone is right. It's past time to let this one go. DVS, you blew it. Even if it was unintentional, you blew an unwritten, uncodified, little-discussed, but exceedingly important social contract we have here. Perhaps a sincere apology is in order. And Muff? You know i love you. You're a close friend of my heart. But you overreacted. Apologize for that, please D, and let's all walk away from this one.

Just to be clear for those who missed the underlying message: all of us place high value on the wonderfully supportive BDSM-oriented community we've forged here at Lit. We're a part of the greater Literotica family, yes, but we're most definitely a smaller and more tightly cohesive community within that larger sphere - and what we discuss here, in this forum, needs to stay here, for all intents and purposes. Violations of this BDSM forum cultural unwritten rule will probably continue to be greeted with astonished antipathy.

Any questions?

 

[Guru]

 

[Trainerman]

time to stand up and be counted

I left this one alone for a while...but there is so much c*** on this that I have to comment. This is after reading both threads concerned

1) DVS and the little "joking" reference occur following 10 normal posts. Not only is DVS therefore the one that exacerbated everything and got it going again, but context suggests clearly that this was a snide remark. i.e. without humour.

2) It seems totally clear that KM's "only comfortable here" remark applied to the BDSM forum. THAT is the way I took it on reading the original before this blew up.

3) KM expressed a personal opinion , as is everyone's right and it was general and not an attack on any one personl. Many agree, I think that many stories (but not ALL) written as masturbatory excercises are often very bad and clearly show themselves for what they are. KM did not say more than that generalised comment...It was OTHERS that CHOSE to take it as a personal attack. I am minded of the saying "if the cap fits..." or rather better "The guilty flee where no man pursueth".

4) All of the above is less relevant than this :- rules or no rules, DVS broke any code OF COMMON CIVILITY and consideration...and in my view to score cheap points.

km...your only mistake was to descend to the level of these.

Cym...sorry to bump this, but I really can't stand injustice and lack of civility

Dave

 

[KillerMuffin]

Personally, I'm not having any truck with this DVS character. He apologized, but I have no idea what for and I have no interest in backhanded insincere apologies. I have no intention of apologizing to him for calling him constipated. I apologized to the person who deserved it and the affair is over.

I started this thread for a legitimate reason, in my view, and DVS had little or nothing to do with it. This wasn't an attack on DVS and this wasn't a reflection of DVS's character, opinions, or lack of sensitivity. I'm not known for subtlety. If I wanted to attack DVS, I would have done so directly to his face. I'm sure someone could dig up threads to illustrate this, but I'd rather not have my ass hanging out like that.

There is a simple question. How private is the information in one forum? Is it appropriate to bring it up in another forum? For instance, if cym posted about a wonderful scene she had this weekend, is it appropriate for Risia to ask her if her bruises are still on her butt in the General Board.

Why do I care?

If it isn't appropriate, should it be edited out of the post?

Until there was a BDSM board there wasn't a problem. However, BDSM is not understood very well and bringing BDSM stuff up, however publicly posted, on other boards may be construed as a violation of privacy. But is it? What's the protocol here? It hasn't been created and this doesn't exactly get covered by the rules. Should an addendum be added to the guidelines "please try to keep BDSM business in the BDSM forum" or should it be left as is? Could something of this nature be something to turn over to Laurel? Should it?

There's also the notion of the Amateur Feedback and Lit Personals forum. People post pictures of themselves or requests for meeting people. Does this information need to be broadcast over the other forums? Guess whose ass is hanging out at the Feedback forum! Let me show you the pic! That could be considered inappropriate as well.

I decided to ask the question here, rather than any other forum, because I thought this the most appropriate place. It has the most to lose in the face of public ridicule, the people who might have the tendency to attack simply because I afforded them the opportunity don't come here, and BDSMers may have dealt with this kind of thing before, or a similar situation.

If anyone would care to address these concerns rather than this nonexistant thing between DVS and myself, I'm all for it. The only reason I brought that thread up was to illustrate my question. Something like this has never happened before that I'm aware of.

 

[DVS]

Obviously, the only person who knows the real truth here is me. I have tried to explain, but no one really wants to listen.

It seems I broke a rule that I couldn't have known even existed. I have been here about a month. I have less than 100 posts. Yes, it would have been nice to see it written down somewhere, if it wasn't suppose to be done. Of course, I have already mentioned that.

Once again...I am sorry you don't understand. I meant no ill intentions, what so ever. If you can't understand this, there is nothing more can I say.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Are you male or female?

 

[Guru]

 

[cymbidia]

Stop fighting, children.

DVS has apologized - several times. Let it be, please.

Muff, darlin', please begin a thread dedicated to discussing an amendment to our rules and regulations thread. We cannot make this a rule but we sure as hell can write out plainly and point new forum members to its existence as a BDSM community standard, can't we?

 

[KillerMuffin]

Of course he apologized. He's sorry I didn't understand him, it was inconvenient. He doesn't give a damn if he insulted me or not. A more cleverly insincere apology couldn't possibly be given.

Geez, cym, could you imagine if I had apologized to you that way?

Maybe my standards are too high. Maybe I should give up on the whole notion of personal accountability and integrity.

I'm not going to start a new thread, at least not in public. My questions barely got answered in the first place, I have no reason to believe that they'll ever get answered because this stench will probably follow them.

I'm not going to open this thread anymore, either.

 

[RisiaSkye]

Here's my take, for what it's worth:

1) The information co-posted did not violate privacy agreements, and therefor is both legal and within the rules of the forums. As a public forum, once it's out there, it's beyond our control.

2) Co-posting information that someone expressly marked as only germane to one forum is technically allowed, but it's rude and runs the risk (as this whole fiasco shows) of personally offending someone.

3) Even information that's well known can be used against you by someone who wants to play dirty pool. For example, I got in an argument about politically charged ads which exploit the pro-breeding bias of our culture for issues which have nothing to do with children. In response, a regular poster made reference to my BDSM sexuality as the reason for my dislike of such exploitive campaigning. In effect, he dismissed my opinion as the ravings of a sexual lunatic. I found that highly offensive and ethically objectionable.

It wasn't, however, anything I could really bitch about to the site management--even though I don't tend to discuss my sexual self in the General Board--as I have made the information public by putting it anywhere on the boards. I found it offensive because it was entirely irrelevant to the conversation; this seems to me to be the same case with KM and DV8--it's not a violation of privacy, it's just rude and irrelevant. It's just a way to be insulting.