Phraseology Tidbits
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sr71plt
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Not really blue
The term "blue bloods," meaning people of upper-class pedigree, is a translation of the Spanish sangre azul, which is attributed to the oldest, proudest families of Castile, Spain. This class of people claimed never to have been contaminated by Moorish, Jewish, or other foreign genes. The expression probably originates in the blueness of the veins in these unusually fair-skinned people in contrast to the duskiness of the mixed-ancestry people around them.
The term "blue bloods," meaning people of upper-class pedigree, is a translation of the Spanish sangre azul, which is attributed to the oldest, proudest families of Castile, Spain. This class of people claimed never to have been contaminated by Moorish, Jewish, or other foreign genes. The expression probably originates in the blueness of the veins in these unusually fair-skinned people in contrast to the duskiness of the mixed-ancestry people around them.
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AsylumSeeker
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The term "crossing the threshold", such as following a wedding, originated when people used to place "thresh" on the dirt floors of their homes. To keep it inside the house they placed a piece of wood at the bottom of the door to hold the "thresh" in.
Or so a website claims, and it makes sense so I choose to believe it.
Or so a website claims, and it makes sense so I choose to believe it.
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Ldy_Sea
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Giving someone the cold shoulder, comes from Ye Olde England. When beggars came to a house to ask for food they were given a cold shoulder of mutton which was one of the lesser desirable pieces of meat.
_Lynn_
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Interesting. I wasn't aware this was a pilot's term.
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Ldy_Sea
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The envelope refers to the expected (if a new aircraft) or accepted (for aircraft in use) performance. Things like top speed, climping speed, turn radius, etc...
So when Chuck Yaeger broke the sound barrier he was pushing the envelope of the aircraft.
sr71plt
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In all humility
Humble pie, being struck--not necessarily willingly--with deserved humility (sometimes after a sharp tongue caused someone to eviserate you), is derived from umble, which was a meat pie made with tongue and entrails (and served to "umbles"--women and children--because men got the best meat pies). This term is said to have a British origin, while the American version, coming from a mid-nineteenth-century story about a farmer taking a challenge to eat anything, would be eating crow.
Humble pie, being struck--not necessarily willingly--with deserved humility (sometimes after a sharp tongue caused someone to eviserate you), is derived from umble, which was a meat pie made with tongue and entrails (and served to "umbles"--women and children--because men got the best meat pies). This term is said to have a British origin, while the American version, coming from a mid-nineteenth-century story about a farmer taking a challenge to eat anything, would be eating crow.
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to call a spade a spade
Might interest you that the same proverb exists in Danish (but not Swedish or Norwegian), and that in Danish the meaning of the word spade (which is actually spelt exactly like the English term) is mostly implement for digging. However, you can also use it for someone stupid (the phrase being dumb as a spade or a shovel or door). So nothing to do with racism.
In Danish:
At kalde en spade for en spade
Dum som en spade (dum som en skovl, dum som en dør)
Din spade !
Min Concise Oxford Dictionary has the derogatory meaning of spade under the explanation playing card of suit (of spades). And the word for the suit of spades is Spar in Danish, so of course we would never be able to get a racial slur / connotation out of the original proverb. But I'll be sure never to use it in English, so thanks for the tip.
In any case, I believe it is not unusual for the meaning of a proverb or a phrase to shift, and when more people are using it in the new sense, that will now be the main content - which could even be the exact opposite of the original sense.
Might interest you that the same proverb exists in Danish (but not Swedish or Norwegian), and that in Danish the meaning of the word spade (which is actually spelt exactly like the English term) is mostly implement for digging. However, you can also use it for someone stupid (the phrase being dumb as a spade or a shovel or door). So nothing to do with racism.
In Danish:
At kalde en spade for en spade
Dum som en spade (dum som en skovl, dum som en dør)
Din spade !
Min Concise Oxford Dictionary has the derogatory meaning of spade under the explanation playing card of suit (of spades). And the word for the suit of spades is Spar in Danish, so of course we would never be able to get a racial slur / connotation out of the original proverb. But I'll be sure never to use it in English, so thanks for the tip.
In any case, I believe it is not unusual for the meaning of a proverb or a phrase to shift, and when more people are using it in the new sense, that will now be the main content - which could even be the exact opposite of the original sense.
umbles
By the way, I just checked Concise O D on umbles, and the explanation says: umbles n. pl. edible offal of deer etc.
So I'm sorry, sr71plt, but I think you made 3 mistakes in your explanation:
There is only the plural form (i.e. umble is not an existing term)
Umble or even umbles do not mean meat pie(s)
Umbles are not women or children
But of course you had the meaning of to eat humble pie AND espacially the connection to offal spot on. I did not know the latter part, so that was interesting info, thank you for this tidbit. I'm quite enjoying this Phraseology Tidbits thread, so I hope other people will add and explain / discuss new phrases.
By the way, I just checked Concise O D on umbles, and the explanation says: umbles n. pl. edible offal of deer etc.
So I'm sorry, sr71plt, but I think you made 3 mistakes in your explanation:
There is only the plural form (i.e. umble is not an existing term)
Umble or even umbles do not mean meat pie(s)
Umbles are not women or children
But of course you had the meaning of to eat humble pie AND espacially the connection to offal spot on. I did not know the latter part, so that was interesting info, thank you for this tidbit. I'm quite enjoying this Phraseology Tidbits thread, so I hope other people will add and explain / discuss new phrases.
sr71plt
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I don't know any of this stuff myself. I'm just quoting sources. Most of this one comes from the Kipfer book already cited.
I think it's already been demonstrated that there's no one "voice of God" on any of these terms.
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AsylumSeeker
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offal... doesn't sound like something tasty.
umbles
Oh, sorry SR, I didn't realize you were citing Kipfer, my mistake. And I also suddenly realized that you wrote "umbles" when talking about women and children, so probably it was not supposed to mean that umbles was a direct synonym for women and children, thus I withdraw my last point.
However, you might want to check the book Food: A Dictionary of Literal and Nonliteral Terms by Robert Palmatier. You can read his definition of eat humble pie online, and he says that the people who had to eat the humble fare of pies with deer innards were the huntsman and the servants (lords and ladies got the venison). So not just women and children, though of course servants would be both sexes plus children.
Anyway, I'm certainly not looking for an expert to deliver the final say on such terms, the fun here is to learn new phrases and the various explanations of origin. I like it even better, when it is coupled with an example of getting the phrase wrong, like tow the line, which of course could easily happen if you have only heard the term spoken and have not seen it on print. So please keep on with providing examples, SR, whether from Kipfer or not.
Yes, offal does sound rather horrid, now that you mention it. Hmm, is there a term for words that by the way they sound or look convey the gut feeling you get by the meaning of the phrase?
Oh, sorry SR, I didn't realize you were citing Kipfer, my mistake. And I also suddenly realized that you wrote "umbles" when talking about women and children, so probably it was not supposed to mean that umbles was a direct synonym for women and children, thus I withdraw my last point.
However, you might want to check the book Food: A Dictionary of Literal and Nonliteral Terms by Robert Palmatier. You can read his definition of eat humble pie online, and he says that the people who had to eat the humble fare of pies with deer innards were the huntsman and the servants (lords and ladies got the venison). So not just women and children, though of course servants would be both sexes plus children.
Anyway, I'm certainly not looking for an expert to deliver the final say on such terms, the fun here is to learn new phrases and the various explanations of origin. I like it even better, when it is coupled with an example of getting the phrase wrong, like tow the line, which of course could easily happen if you have only heard the term spoken and have not seen it on print. So please keep on with providing examples, SR, whether from Kipfer or not.
Yes, offal does sound rather horrid, now that you mention it. Hmm, is there a term for words that by the way they sound or look convey the gut feeling you get by the meaning of the phrase?
sr71plt
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Not from the game of tag
"Touch and go," used for near-miss situations, is from a nautical term. When a vessel touches bottom in shallow water but manages to proceed without damage, that was called "touch and go."
(At least one Carnival cruise line captain needs to learn that's the goal of the game.)
"Touch and go," used for near-miss situations, is from a nautical term. When a vessel touches bottom in shallow water but manages to proceed without damage, that was called "touch and go."
(At least one Carnival cruise line captain needs to learn that's the goal of the game.)
Bramblethorn
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I'd go with "evocative". Or when the word actually matches a sound you're describing, "onomatopoeic".
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Ldy_Sea
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The only time I've heard this phrase was by Nacal Aviators practicing landings and takeoffs on an aircraft carrier. They touch down and take off. The term we used in the navy was Soft Aground when a ship was able to free itself from the bottom after running aground. Hard aground is when you need to be towed off the sandbar or obstruction.
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Ldy_Sea
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OK has many meanings but only one of these was used to decide a court case. US Prez Martin Van Bruen used Orl Korrect abbreviated as OK on documents. There are other explanations out there but this is the only one that can be historically documented. Further credence is given because in 1935 a court ruled that OK on several invoices was equivelent to ALL Correct.
sr71plt
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Not from the pick of the bunch
The terms "top banana" and "second banana" don't derive from actual banana pecking orders. The terms came from the shape of the soft, bladder-shaped clubs comedians used to hit each other with in the burlesque theaters. I suppose the one with the biggest club (or the best backswing) was the top banana.
The terms "top banana" and "second banana" don't derive from actual banana pecking orders. The terms came from the shape of the soft, bladder-shaped clubs comedians used to hit each other with in the burlesque theaters. I suppose the one with the biggest club (or the best backswing) was the top banana.
lovecraft68
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Interesting, but as I read this I find it more interesting to try to remember when last I've heard this one used. Very dated to say the least,
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Very interesting, SR. Thanks. I only learned of the term during my flying years of the USAF when the flight deck would add another hour to the flight time by practicing landings, or "touch-and-go's".
I hated the delay to landing but I had no choice. Tried to nap if I could, strapped into my seat for what I could do.
And I'm still wondering why they call a "near-hit" a "near-miss". Maybe sounds better.
cocput
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My, you're typically pissy tonight. Apparently you just aren't "feeling the love" from the forum of late.
What's the story of feeling the love?
sr71plt
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That would be Lovecraft, Lance, and Cruel2BKind (wearing a strapon), putting on their mutual admiration society circle jerk act of regaling us all with fantasies of their "first times" (as if anyone cared).
