Race Relations

[GuiltyPleasure]

My first experience with a black person was similar to theognis' - I must have been five or six with my mother as she shopped in our local outdoor market typical of small English towns.

It was busy and crowded and so much to look at, at some point I reached up to grasp my mother's hand. Feeling something wasn't quite right I snapped back to reality, looked up into the shining, beaming, very black face. She sensed my shock and concern and that tears weren't far away and gently lead me to where my mother stood close by.

They laughed together comfortably, my mother thanked her for her consideration and life went on while I simmered in my embarrassment.

 

[EroticOrogeny]

I was thinking about this thread in regards to where I work. We have quite an international crew at work. Besides English, quite likely to hear Spanish (Latin America), French (France), Norwegian, Mandarin. Seems like most of the time South Asians and Africans will use English

 

[Angeline]

My first experience with a black person was similar to theognis' - I must have been five or six with my mother as she shopped in our local outdoor market typical of small English towns.

It was busy and crowded and so much to look at, at some point I reached up to grasp my mother's hand. Feeling something wasn't quite right I snapped back to reality, looked up into the shining, beaming, very black face. She sensed my shock and concern and that tears weren't far away and gently lead me to where my mother stood close by.

They laughed together comfortably, my mother thanked her for her consideration and life went on while I simmered in my embarrassment.

Honey you need to just write the poem. You are halfway there with this post.

 

[theognis]

My first experience with a black person was similar to theognis' - I must have been five or six with my mother as she shopped in our local outdoor market typical of small English towns.

It was busy and crowded and so much to look at, at some point I reached up to grasp my mother's hand. Feeling something wasn't quite right I snapped back to reality, looked up into the shining, beaming, very black face. She sensed my shock and concern and that tears weren't far away and gently lead me to where my mother stood close by.

They laughed together comfortably, my mother thanked her for her consideration and life went on while I simmered in my embarrassment.

Your story made me smile in remembrance. The difference between your experience and mine was I had time to observe the old black man from afar, before deciding to approach him and meet him on my own terms.

 

[twelveoone]

White is the moonlight on the snowfall
White are the ghosts in the marshes
Transposed shadow
You are but a ghost to me
4 of the 10,000 things

si si
ah, forget it, you would have to have been in Golmud.

 

[butters]

White is the moonlight on the snowfall
White are the ghosts in the marshes
Transposed shadow
You are but a ghost to me
4 of the 10,000 things

si si
ah, forget it, you would have to have been in Golmud.

salt lakes and splintered breath
salt winters hold a crystaled thought
but ghosts hold nothing
and their breath won't fog the arid air

 

[PandoraGlitters]

Wonderful to read everyone's thoughts and poems here.

Just one quick note on my assertion that an example of institutionalized racism is the preference for suburban experience on standardized tests--while some minority populations in sparsely populated states are growing most quickly in the suburbs, African American populations are most dense in the Southern states and in urban centers. In the school I teach, out of 900 kids two are Caucasian. None of the children have been scuba diving or played doubles tennis, yet these are common features on state tests. In this instance I think that race and class politics intersect with anti-immigrant bias. 50% of the students at my school speak English as a second language.

Now for this:

Ode to Montina Cole

I didn't know, yet, how to confess
in fourth grade. Perhaps it was this
but more likely meeting my parents
that made my 4th grade teacher place
me at the table with three black girls

who would teach me more than any
civics lesson what it means
to be civilized.

Yes, I drew on the beloved
white sleeve of the album, the immaculate
black vinyl presented back
to the tall, bright girl on my right

and then they noticed

my doodle, unmistakably Barbara
Stresand-Cleopatra hybrid with the long
nose and, furious

hurt

my tablemate asked me if I had done it

and I lied and said no. Indignant
silent
Montina rose and walked to the sink
to return with a pitcher of water
which she poured over my head.

Years later I was still
asking her forgiveness
but she just set
my debt to the side.

I still owe it, but pay
interest every day.

 

[theognis]

Wonderful to read everyone's thoughts and poems here.

Just one quick note on my assertion that an example of institutionalized racism is the preference for suburban experience on standardized tests--while some minority populations in sparsely populated states are growing most quickly in the suburbs, African American populations are most dense in the Southern states and in urban centers. In the school I teach, out of 900 kids two are Caucasian. None of the children have been scuba diving or played doubles tennis, yet these are common features on state tests. In this instance I think that race and class politics intersect with anti-immigrant bias. 50% of the students at my school speak English as a second language.

Now for this:

Ode to Montina Cole

I didn't know, yet, how to confess
in fourth grade. Perhaps it was this
but more likely meeting my parents
that made my 4th grade teacher place
me at the table with three black girls

who would teach me more than any
civics lesson what it means
to be civilized.

Yes, I drew on the beloved
white sleeve of the album, the immaculate
black vinyl presented back
to the tall, bright girl on my right

and then they noticed

my doodle, unmistakably Barbara
Stresand-Cleopatra hybrid with the long
nose and, furious

hurt

my tablemate asked me if I had done it

and I lied and said no. Indignant
silent
Montina rose and walked to the sink
to return with a pitcher of water
which she poured over my head.

Years later I was still
asking her forgiveness
but she only
set my debt to the side.

I still owe it, but pay
interest every day.

I realize race is a very sensitive issue with many people, so I will try to make this my last comment concerning your assertion. I'll just point out that the percentage of white kids who have ever been scuba diving is minuscule, and the percentage who play doubles tennis is very small, so questions related to those activities give the vast majority of whites no advantage over other kids whatsoever. The two white kids at your school are not exceptional in that regard.

I think you've made a much more valid point about class than you have about race or anti-immigrant bias. The fact 50% of the students at your school speak English as a second language is a problem, but there is no way standardized tests in America should be geared toward those who don't speak English as a first language.

 

[Senna Jawa]

I'd say that institutionalized racism is still present in our society though it has paled (pun intended) in comparison to the 70s of my childhood. I see evidences of this in the tests, for example, that I am compelled to use with my students. The questions often reflect an expectation of middle-class suburban experience. I suspect this hampers student performance.

In this case you see not racism but a horrible educational system run by the most pathetic kind of politicians (by Educational Boards).

Every racist incident is abhorrent, and something which we should immediately protest, etc. It is important though to see the proportions as they are. Until Luther King movement racism was a major problem in the USA. Afterward less and less so. There are other problems which are on a larger scale, and should be actively addressed. Today racism in the USA is not more than one of many negative problems of which there is abundance. Addressing more prevalent problems, like the shamelessly poor education system, will help also to solve some other problems like remnants of racism. Stressing the issue of racism out of proportion is counterproductive, and may lead to more racism.

 

[PandoraGlitters]

Racism is but one of the things we need to think about
the dangerous bits floating around us in
the soup of our culture.

Of course there is general
disregard, malaise, addiction,
buses full of young people who leave
the old standing on their canes

why not be the one to stand up?
Even small problems are worth addressing
and something that gets people
beat to death
is worth

a few stamps, right?

 

[PandoraGlitters]

Sorry about that double post but might as well take the opportunity to add that I appreciate opinions that diverge from my own and how direct and yes, exact, you have been in voicing them. Thank you, Theo and Senna.

 

[PandoraGlitters]

Oof. Double post. Sorry.

 

[Senna Jawa]

Racism is but one of the things we need to think about
the dangerous bits floating around us in
the soup of our culture.

Of course there is general
disregard, malaise, addiction,
buses full of young people who leave
the old standing on their canes

why not be the one to stand up?

This unfortunately implies that in your opinion I did nothing about the racism. But you don't know me.

 

[theognis]

Sorry about that double post but might as well take the opportunity to add that I appreciate opinions that diverge from my own and how direct and yes, exact, you have been in voicing them. Thank you, Theo and Senna.

You're welcome. I'm not discounting racism; I'm just saying when everything is a mountain, nothing is a mountain.

 

[twelveoone]

I think you've made a much more valid point about class than you have about race or anti-immigrant bias. The fact 50% of the students at your school speak English as a second language is a problem, but there is no way standardized tests in America should be geared toward those who don't speak English as a first language.

Just wait 50 years or so.
English will be nowhere what you think it is. Two Generations. Every so often it happens. At least in about half of the English speaking countries, including the US. Happened in England Twice, maybe three times.

 

[theognis]

Just wait 50 years or so.
English will be nowhere what you think it is. Two Generations. Every so often it happens. At least in about half of the English speaking countries, including the US. Happened in England Twice, maybe three times.

I think it would be a shame if English goes the way of the dodo. Four million words, many of them exceptionally useful, often unparalleled, and some uniquely beautiful. But I could be biased.

 

[EroticOrogeny]

I think it would be a shame if English goes the way of the dodo. Four million words, many of them exceptionally useful, often unparalleled, and some uniquely beautiful. But I could be biased.

I'm definitely biased, and wouldn't like to see that. Right now its the international language as much as any.
I guess contenders might be Mandarin and Spanish.
Right now there's a lot of interest in Mandarin, but that may well be like the interest in Russian 40-50 years ago. I'd definitely find Spanish helpful since there are a lot of Latin American folks here, but I'm not a good language learner.

 

[theognis]

I'm definitely biased, and wouldn't like to see that. Right now its the international language as much as any.
I guess contenders might be Mandarin and Spanish.
Right now there's a lot of interest in Mandarin, but that may well be like the interest in Russian 40-50 years ago. I'd definitely find Spanish helpful since there are a lot of Latin American folks here, but I'm not a good language learner.

At one time I was reasonably proficient in one foreign language, and I could get by in a couple more, so my bias in favor of English is not entirely uninformed. I just think it's the best language we have, all things considered. And I agree, it's the closest thing we have to an international language.

 

[twelveoone]

At one time I was reasonably proficient in one foreign language, and I could get by in a couple more, so my bias in favor of English is not entirely uninformed. I just think it's the best language we have, all things considered. And I agree, it's the closest thing we have to an international language.

It is. That, and the fact of greater access is why it will fragment, mutate to the point it may be difficult to understand it. There was a debate about how many words are there, you can easily make an issue for 1,000,000+, new ones added, old ones falling out of favour, sliding both of meaning and pronunciation. This always existed, but will probably be accelerated. Lingo and Jargon, both are subsets of English may be examples of what I am try to say. If you are not in it, you don't understand it,

 

[theognis]

It is. That, and the fact of greater access is why it will fragment, mutate to the point it may be difficult to understand it. There was a debate about how many words are there, you can easily make an issue for 1,000,000+, new ones added, old ones falling out of favour, sliding both of meaning and pronunciation. This always existed, but will probably be accelerated. Lingo and Jargon, both are subsets of English may be examples of what I am try to say. If you are not in it, you don't understand it,

There are certainly over 1,000,000 words in the English language, and by some counts over 4,000,000, although that may be stretching it more than a little. One of the exceptional things about English, however, is how readily it embraces useful words from other languages and sources, whatever they may be, and makes them its own.

I'm sure the English of a hundred years from now will be different, but I wouldn't expect it to be so different we wouldn't be able to understand it reasonably well. A thousand years from now, perhaps not.

 

[twelveoone]

There are certainly over 1,000,000 words in the English language, and by some counts over 4,000,000, although that may be stretching it more than a little. One of the exceptional things about English, however, is how readily it embraces useful words from other languages and sources, whatever they may be, and makes them its own.

I'm sure the English of a hundred years from now will be different, but I wouldn't expect it to be so different we wouldn't be able to understand it reasonably well. A thousand years from now, perhaps not.

I quote:
When everything is a mountain,
nothing is a mountain

It is a rich language to exploit, but, words and meanings do get a little diffuse at times.

 

[real_baby__cici]

Not A Racist

There was an old white man of letter
who said, "To me race does not matter.
Most black girls are eye sores;
Poor gooks yap like dumb boors.
They'd like me if they were just smarter."

 

[EroticOrogeny]

Falling right into place with this recent discussion of English is the
"Engines" episode I heard this morning (2682).
I try to make a point of catching this little show (5 min) each weekday morning. May not have heard them all but I remember driving my son to kindergarten while we listened to it - he's now working on his Masters.

 

[PandoraGlitters]

This unfortunately implies that in your opinion I did nothing about the racism. But you don't know me.

It was not meant to imply that. It was meant to say that yes, there are other problems but why not do something about this one? Of course I don't know you. You don't know me either. This doesn't mean we cannot treat one another with respect and courtesy, right? Best wishes, truly, Dora.