Rating 1 versus 5

[Bramblethorn]

Rating a story a 5 speaks for itself that the author should continue doing the same writing.

Agreed. But without a comment it doesn't actually tell me very much about what parts of that writing they loved so much. It's nice for my ego, but it's not very much help in improving my writing.

If you really hate a story and rate it a 1, then comment and tell the author WHY. But, rating 1 with no feedback serves no purpose. You failed to teach the author anything.

It's the flip-side of the commentless 5. "Don't continue writing like this" is just as valid a message as the one left by a 5-star, it's just a lot less popular with writers because most of us are vain creatures who prefer to have our egos stroked. Me definitely included.

And, like Simon said, it's not just about the author. If more of us on this board understood that ratings aren't there for our egos but for helping readers find stories they want to read, maybe we'd see a bit less ratings drama. (Not that ratings are perfect for that purpose, or anywhere close. But they're at least a bit more useful for that purpose than they are as a tool for authors to assess our own work.)

In fact, the site would probably be improved if story ratings were visible to everybody except the story's author.

I do try to give constructive feedback, if I feel that's going to be time well spent. If I give a story 1* and don't leave a comment, it's either because I'm pretty sure the author is not going to listen to my criticisms (not that they're obliged to!) or because other commenters have already pointed out what's wrong with it.

There are some who rate it a 1 and comment such as "More cuck shit" in a category rife with extra-marital affairs, suggesting they are just trolling for no good purpose.

Yep, and I believe my previous comment made it very clear that I'm not arguing for downvoting a story simply because I chose to read in a genre that I know isn't my kind of thing. Those 1-voters are numpties. But that doesn't mean all 1-votes should be banned.

What's the alternative? Make 2 the lowest number on the scale, and then meet up back here in six months to complain about all the people voting 2?

In practice, I rarely give scores lower than 4, because I rarely finish a story if I don't think it deserves a 4 or better. I'm not sure I've ever given a 1 to any story. But I wouldn't fault someone for doing so. My only caveat to that is that I don't think a reader should give a 1 to a story simply because the reader hates the subject matter of the story. I respect others' kinks even when they are different from my own.

Agreed with all of this. If a story is just kinda meh, I probably won't bother finishing or voting on it. Figuring out the difference between a 2* and a 3* story might take more time than I want to put into a story that I don't enjoy.

But sometimes one bite into a shit sandwich is enough to tell me what I'm dealing with. On those occasions, I don't feel compelled to eat the whole of that sandwich before voting.

 

[KeithD]

Agreed. But without a comment it doesn't actually tell me very much about what parts of that writing they loved so much. It's nice for my ego, but it's not very much help in improving my writing.

If that's what you want from this site, you really should state that in your stories. This is not billed as a critique site and it includes empowerments to the writers not to have to have critique shoved down their throats from "whomever" if they don't want to. This is a sharing site at the base. Anyone who wants more than that should actively signal that wish. There is no requirement or even encouragement of a reader here to "improve" anyone's writing. In the same vein, no reader here should feel obligated to follow any writer's or discussion board user's dictate of how they should rate any story they find here.

 

[SimonDoom]

If that's what you want from this site, you really should state that in your stories. This is not billed as a critique site and it includes empowerments to the writers not to have to have critique shoved down their throats from "whomever" if they don't want to. This is a sharing site at the base. Anyone who wants more than that should actively signal that wish. There is no requirement or even encouragement of a reader here to "improve" anyone's writing. In the same vein, no reader here should feel obligated to follow any writer's or discussion board user's dictate of how they should rate any story they find here.

I have on occasion added a blurb at the beginning or ending indicating that I welcome comments and criticism, but usually I forget to do so even though that is my intention.

I wonder if anyone has observed whether such blurbs seem to have the desired effect of increasing comments.

 

[KeithD]

I have on occasion added a blurb at the beginning or ending indicating that I welcome comments and criticism, but usually I forget to do so even though that is my intention.

I wonder if anyone has observed whether such blurbs seem to have the desired effect of increasing comments.

Good question. I think someone really wanting to use this site to help develop their writing (and not being interested in that does NOT ipso facto mean a writer thinks their writing already is wonderful) and are willing to believe whatever "whomever" here gives as advice can only do better than asking right here on the Feedback board for a critique by picking out a writer they think they could learn from and asking them for help directly. (That doesn't mean everyone will want to do that, though.)

 

[Lifestyle66]

That's not the purpose of the rating system.

The purpose of the rating system is not to reward or educate authors. Its purpose is to provide information to readers so they can make more informed decisions about choosing stories they want to read. As authors we tend to forget that we are not the chief focus of this Site's features. Readers are.

...

I agree the ratings are for the benefit of the readers to decide which stories are worth the time. So, go ahead and rate the story objectively as a 1, IF it really deserves a 1.

BUT ... when over 75% of ratings are 4 or 5, then is your lonely 1 an objective rating?

If you feel it deserves a 1, tell me why. The comments are to make the NEXT stories even better!

 

[Lifestyle66]

...
But sometimes one bite into a shit sandwich is enough to tell me what I'm dealing with. On those occasions, I don't feel compelled to eat the whole of that sandwich before voting.

If you rate a story as 5, then the author might write another to again entertain you with another 5. Nothing more needs to be said.

If the story is shit, and you warn others it's shit with a 1, then by alerting the author with SOME critical feedback might improve that author's next writing until they achieve something you enjoy.

Their work here is free to you. Why would you not encourage them to make better free stuff? (Unless you're just too lazy?)

A few seconds or a minute of your time might save hours or days of useless effort on that author's part. So, by not spending that minute, you are posturing your time as thousands of times more important than theirs.

 

[Bramblethorn]

If that's what you want from this site, you really should state that in your stories.

It's not. I was making an observation there, not a complaint.

If you read the rest of that post, I think I made myself clear that my position on this issue is much the same as what you're saying here. The bit you quoted was in response to an assertion that 1-star votes without an accompanying comment don't give the author any useful feedback and hence "serve no purpose"; my reply was to the effect of "same goes for 5-star votes and yet we don't complain about those".

I then mentioned some of the reasons why I might vote without commenting, so nobody who read the whole of that post could reasonably have thought that I was objecting to the idea of readers voting without commenting.

For what it's worth: I love anonymous positive feedback, because I am a slut for having my ego massaged, and I don't think any author here should be ashamed to enjoy that. But it's not where I would go for constructive critique, especially since I prefer to get critique before publishing.

This is not billed as a critique site and it includes empowerments to the writers not to have to have critique shoved down their throats from "whomever" if they don't want to. This is a sharing site at the base. Anyone who wants more than that should actively signal that wish. There is no requirement or even encouragement of a reader here to "improve" anyone's writing. In the same vein, no reader here should feel obligated to follow any writer's or discussion board user's dictate of how they should rate any story they find here.

I agree with all of this. 100%. If you think I was arguing otherwise, then you misread.

 

[KeithD]

If the story is shit, and you warn others it's shit with a 1, then by alerting the author with SOME critical feedback might improve that author's next writing until they achieve something you enjoy.

Ah, the real fallacy in this. There are very few readers here who have the chops to call a story shit and then to trash it and run off and warn others. Again, this isn't a highly selective and a writing development site, and anyone deciding for themselves that it is is both off base and being an A-hole. This is a "let's share our arousal stories" site until/unless a writer flags their work for help/critique. And even when they do, they face a large possibility that no one zipping in to give them writing help knows a damn thing more about writing than they do.

 

[Bramblethorn]

If you rate a story as 5, then the author might write another to again entertain you with another 5. Nothing more needs to be said.

But how do they know what I liked about it?

Some of the people who send me feedback like my stories for reasons completely unrelated to anything I was trying to do in it. I'm over here thinking "I really want to explore how a shifting power balance between two people complicates the relationship" and they can be over there thinking "fuck yeah, this character has the same name as the girl I had a crush on in high school!"

I still enjoy those commentless 5* votes but I don't delude myself that they're all going to like my next story. Many of them won't even read my next story, because a lot of readers only follow one category and I post in more than one.

If the story is shit, and you warn others it's shit with a 1, then by alerting the author with SOME critical feedback might improve that author's next writing until they achieve something you enjoy. Their work here is free to you. Why would you not encourage them to make better free stuff? (Unless you're just too lazy?)

Uh huh.

So, let me get this straight: when an author posts a not-very-good story without giving any indication that they want feedback, and I don't give them feedback to accompany my 1* vote, I'm "just lazy".

When an author asks for feedback on his terribly-written stories, and I do my best to give constructive feedback, and his response is to PM calling me a "gay bitch dyke whore liberal shit eater", and I decide that in future I'm just going to 1* those stories, I'm "just lazy".

When an author with a Nazi-themed username posts stories about how [racial slurs] are violent thugs menacing the nation's womanhood, and about how great it is to shoot [political slurs] and [people like me], and I choose to give them a 1* instead of boosting their profile by saying "hey have you considered not being a hateful bigot", I'm "just lazy". And I should be grateful for the "free stuff"!

Good to know, thanks, definitely taking all that on board.

I put a value on my time. If you check other authors' acknowledgements here, you'll find that I've spent many hours giving constructive feedback to people who wanted that feedback. I make time for that by not wasting it on composing constructive criticism on shitty 1* stories by authors who don't want my feedback and wouldn't listen to it if I gave it.

A few seconds or a minute of your time might save hours or days of useless effort on that author's part. So, by not spending that minute, you are posturing your time as thousands of times more important than theirs.

Nope. They are not entitled to my time, and in most cases they haven't even given any indication that they want my time. You seem to think we should work on the assumption that every author wants feedback from Internet strangers, but it ain't so.

 

[Lifestyle66]

...And I should be grateful for the "free stuff"!

Good to know, thanks, definitely taking all that on board.

I apologize for offending you with my lazy comment. It seems we both have had bad experiences with the ratings and comments (or lack of) from damaged or bigoted readers.

In my case, it's from a few anon and two named readers commenting "More cuck shit, AVOID!" in a category they should be aware would contain such stories. It seems they repeated pick those stories merely to rate a 1 and post a disparaging comment ... as if it's a cathartic rehab exercise for something in their own life.

If a story is poorly written, then ratings and comments should mostly reflect that with an average of less than 3. But, when 80+% of the readers like the story, it would be interesting to know what offended the remaining 20%. Was there an offensive scene? Did I pick the wrong category and attract the wrong readers? Or is it a damaged reader blowing off steam after reading something which triggered a bad memory?

 

[dmallord]

That's not the purpose of the rating system.

The purpose of the rating system is not to reward or educate authors. Its purpose is to provide information to readers so they can make more informed decisions about choosing stories they want to read. As authors we tend to forget that we are not the chief focus of this Site's features. Readers are.

In theory, I agree fully with Bramblethorn. The 1-5 rating system exists for a purpose, and no reader should feel any qualms about giving a 1 to a story if the reader genuinely feels that's what the story deserves. If you don't, then you are undermining the purpose of the rating system, and readers will have less accurate scores with which to make selection decisions.

In practice, I rarely give scores lower than 4, because I rarely finish a story if I don't think it deserves a 4 or better. I'm not sure I've ever given a 1 to any story. But I wouldn't fault someone for doing so. My only caveat to that is that I don't think a reader should give a 1 to a story simply because the reader hates the subject matter of the story. I respect others' kinks even when they are different from my own.

-----
Writing is such an overt act of ego exposure to the public. Getting a low score on a story can well put a cap on the ink bottle and end one's lust for writing. Their desire to post ends quickly as a result. Life is too short to have it damaged by some anon posting of low scores or even an identified one. I also do not rate scores below 3 for that reason. At least they spent some sweat and probably a smidgen of effort in the brave act of posting - even it was terrible in the eyes of the beholders!

I've posted in the form for commentary as others in this thread have suggested. So far the responses lean to being 'nice work' and 'yeah nice work' sort of responses. Yet, a few have offered sound advice. It's a mixed bag of good in the forum. Having said that, I do realize no writer need feel any sense of obligation to offering constructive criticism. That requires a rare personality trait called being generous with one's time and thoughts: the traits of a good teacher comes to mind.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I apologize for offending you with my lazy comment.

Accepted with thanks, and sorry if my reply was surly there.

In my case, it's from a few anon and two named readers commenting "More cuck shit, AVOID!" in a category they should be aware would contain such stories. It seems they repeated pick those stories merely to rate a 1 and post a disparaging comment ... as if it's a cathartic rehab exercise for something in their own life.

Yep, those guys are arseholes and I have no interest in defending them. I just don't think that all 1* votes should be tarred with the same brush.

If a story is poorly written, then ratings and comments should mostly reflect that with an average of less than 3. But, when 80+% of the readers like the story, it would be interesting to know what offended the remaining 20%. Was there an offensive scene? Did I pick the wrong category and attract the wrong readers? Or is it a damaged reader blowing off steam after reading something which triggered a bad memory?

In some cases, it's the same thing the other readers loved. Some readers want lots of character development and plot, some resent anything that gets in the way of the sex scenes, some want detailed physical description of characters, some want light/no description so they can imagine their favourite fantasy object in the story, etc. etc.