Reconciling religion and BDSM

[Pure]

Thanks for your note, "lost".

Sex outside marriage is a big topic, but some forms of it are rampant throughout the OT.

Paul, of course, sets a guideline pretty high, and doesn't want
"fornication" --he mentions intercourse with prostitutes. If 'fornication' (porneia) means an impure contact, that would have to be defined. Clearly with prostitutes is one example, but between, say, an engaged couple, I'm not sure that qualifies. Indeed a number of Christians, the Puritans in NE, countenanced this sort of thing.

Why not get a divorce? The OT recognizes it, and at Matt, 5:32, it clearly recognizes adultery as grounds for divorce, as it is in many conservative Christian countries. Even the 'no divorce' position of the R. Catholics, allows for annulment.

The Bible, with its patriarchal views, is mainly concerned with adultery; since the wife 'belongs' to the husband, there's adultery--so defined-- if she (married) has sex with any other male. There's no way, according to OT or NT that a wife's extramarital affairs are going to be countenanced, though of course they might be forgiven. (And maybe common sense says it's usually not right to promise faithfulness to one's partner, and then sneak around. But partnerships can and are dissolved, and surely that dissolves the promise of faithfulness.)

The OT is hardly concerned at all about a married man 'sowing' his oats, e.g., with prostitutes, so long as he doesn't do it with another man's wife.

The question of two, non married people having sex, not for money is, imo, far from clear as being banned in the OT, and (I may get criticism here) probably is murky in relation to the NT, as I said, depending on what "fornication" meant to Paul. In the Gospels, it seems to be adultery, as defined above, that's talked about.

So my suggestion to lessen guilt is to dissolve the marriage, if not already, and to 'hang out' either with non religious folks, or protestants who are a bit liberal, or if not that, at least forgiving.

J.
"pure"

 

[lost]

i am in the process of divorce- for almost the whole three years it has been especially nasty. the main sticking point is child custody. Hopefully one day, but probably not soon I will be free of him. As far as the local church was concern i seem to have developed lepersy overnight. i have yet to be invited over to anyones house since or even hardly been spoken to. not surprisingly i quit going there, but the majority of churches in the area despite thier denomination. if this is how they react to a simple divorce i can only imagine how they would react to the BDSM. thanks

 

[Pure]

Sorry to hear of the messy divorce, but keep at it.

You're talking about a very narrow group, but one not that surprising. I remember when the first divorce happened among my cousins, in the 1970s. What a shock to all! Indeed in my grade school or high school I don't remember knowing a single kid with divorced parents! Then later there was the first divorce among aunts and uncles, then finally my parents. In some circles a divorced woman is highly suspect, the word 'divorcee' alone sounds like she's an 'adventuress'. Indeed some couples are wary of her impact on the man.

Any large city has a number of divorced people now. Surely 75 % of Protestant churches (those in cities), at least outside the South, would be glad to see you.

The thing is not to get dragged down. Associate with positive people and believe that one day you'll be free.

Best,
"Pure"

 

[Rooster]

lost,

My religious background is Southern Baptist. One of the most conservative or possibly just narrow minded, that I know of.

For me being submissive to my husband isn't something that goes against my religious beliefs. That is to say just the act of submission.

Do I advertise to my church what we do? OMG no way!! Southern Baptist's are very closed minded people, I know because I grew up in a family steeped in this religion.


~smiles~
dixi

OMG ... know how a feel .... but I'm an Independant Baptist .. which can be even more conservitive. A submissive wife to her husband is core value.

If you subscribe to the teachings that sinful thoughts are an equal sin to actually doing them, then I say if your already "in trouble" .. might as well do it

I'm also an ex Catholic, so there's always the confession

BTW ... can anyone tell me the cut off in the bible was where having more than one wife was unacceptable?

 

[lost]

Rooster,
the only place i know of where the Bioble says anything about having one wife is the instructions on having an elder "husband of one wife" which in out society has drifted way out of context. in nt times it was used to say an elder should have two wives, now its used to say you should never be divorced (or widowed if you follow the idea to its fullest extent, or for that matter be single) I also tend to drift to indepedent baptist. I personally don't see how anyone can claim from a biblical stand point that poligamy is wrong. I do have to question your sanity though. let me throw in a load of laundry and ill find that verse for you.

 

[lost]

1 Tim 3:12

 

[~*sunkyssed_kym*~]

Just another point of view..............

Lost; You've received many thought provoking posts already, so I'll try and keep mine short.
I was raised in a Protestant family. It seemed that every few years my parents would switch denominations. It was as if they were searching for a church who taught tolerance instead of the hell fire and brimstone found in so many southern churches. I stopped going to church when I became an adult. I found the hypocrisy too much for my liking. It wasn't until 4 years ago,[20 years later] that I started attending church again. I did some research and found a congregation that seemed to teach my beliefs. The first morning I walked into my new church, I felt as if I had finally found a place where I belonged. The church I had selected is a Unity Church. Not to be confused with the Unitarian Church. Unity International is based in Mo. and teaches practical Christianity. Positive affirmations are a daily part of the theology, and respect of other faiths is encouraged. In my church, we have every sort of people one could imagine. Not only is our congregation multiracial, but we are also blessed with people who's sexual orientation isn't tolerated in most other churches.
With such tolerance to other beliefs, I know that my desires pertaining to my choice of submitting to MY-Sir are acceptable. What HE and I choose to experience, does not show disrespect to God; but actually glorifies God with the joy we share in one another's body.
Just my $. 02 worth. Hope it helps.

-kym- Hoping I wasn't TOO long winded!**sighs**

 

[lost]

kym,
thank you that was worth more than .02. I will look into the Unity church.

 

[~*sunkyssed_kym*~]

Lost................

You can find Unity at www.unityworldhq.org Best wishes to you in your search. And remember, you are not alone. You are welcome to pm me any time you need a shoulder. OK?

-kym- extending her hand...........

 

[lost]

Thank you again, kym.

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: My 2 cents

Originally posted by A Desert Rose


You from Kansas J?

Yes as it happens.

I agree that organized religion is in conflict often with sexuality. I also believe as I stated before, that we would not be blessed with those areas of sexual pleasure if we were not meant to explore them.

Not to delve into the psychology of things too deeply, but yes. As always the trick is knowing when to draw lines you WON'T cross. The Bible clearly teaches that what we think of as wrong, is wrong. One other proviso.

It is crystal clear that the Bible teaches manogomy, in the sense that eagles and wolves practice it. A sexual relationship is inappropriate outside a lifelong commitment. There is a ton of psychology on this point also.

Very thought provoking post, J. Thank you.


Rose

Thank you too. In another thread on another site I listed hearing "Thank You" among my favorite things. Have you ever noticed how ingratiating it is to ask a small favor, just to have the opportunity to sincerely offer thanks?

J

PS My mother's maiden name means "wreath of roses."

 

[A Desert Rose]

Re: Re: Re: My 2 cents

Originally posted by A Desert Rose

Thank you too. In another thread on another site I listed hearing "Thank You" among my favorite things. Have you ever noticed how ingratiating it is to ask a small favor, just to have the opportunity to sincerely offer thanks?

J

PS My mother's maiden name means "wreath of roses."

Very nice post. Again, Thank you. ~smiling~

 

[Pure]

A couple websites on Bible and sexual issues,

http://www.libchrist.com

This one, above, is interested in Christian 'polyamory'. Open marital arrangements.

This is a linked page,below, on the 'fornication' issue, essentially arguing that single's sex (non marital) is not really addressed by Paul

http://www.libchrist.com/bible/fornication.html

Here are a couple others:

http://www.biblelaw.com/cgi-bin/stc.cgi?tn=MARRIAGE_(POLYGAMY)&tt=s

The above, lists all Bible passages on marriage; the site has entries for many issues.

The 'fornication' list of passages, below, is quite long;

http://www.biblelaw.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?text=fornication&x=8&y=12

The commentary cited, by Moody and others is very conservative.
But it does seem to be the case that a kind of sexual covetousness is being talked about; or 'sexual greed'; "I've got to have that person." If that's the case, then gentler, consensual relations between singles who care for each other are not really covered or forbidden.


See also:
http://members.aol.com/healinglvs/healinglvs/dr-00.htm


Using google search (polygamy bible), there are several sites on polygamy and Christianity, essentially arguing that the NT does not forbid it;
(is silent on it, which probably means tacit approval).

There is page on Augustine and polygamy
http://members.aol.com/healinglvs/healinglvs/poly-01.htm

Augustine argues, correctly I think, that the objections to polygamy come from custom, not from God's law.

 

[lost]

LOL

kym-
I just discovered that I drive by the Unity School all the time. I always wondered what it was.