Right and Wrong, The Ethics of the Lifestyle

[Netzach]

TLDR almost.

"Don't all yall perverts have a moral compass and prove it or I'll cry."

Yes I do. No I don't need to.

 

[graceanne]

TLDR almost.

"Don't all yall perverts have a moral compass and prove it or I'll cry."

Yes I do. No I don't need to.

I should have known better than to try. You'd think I'd learn.

 

[Amanda_T]

Ok. My apologies.

I took some of what was said last night for sure the wrong way

Of course, online it is very hard, when one doesn't know someone, to understand they are using the general "you" rather than the specific "You".

Yes, I do imagine that many of you have hammered it out for yourselves. That is what I wanted to talk about. What everyone thought about when "hammering" it out so to speak.

There seems to be a lot of a philosophy of ethics that stems from the hedonist ideal, in which "If it feels good do it" in the lifestyle, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing. But I can certainly see how "unrestrained hedonism" could end up in a bad place.

The prescribed limits of "informed and knowledgeable consent" are a good idea, and a good limit.

There are many other schools of thought on ethics, like the religious one that says "all that is good and right and moral comes from God" right? but I do imagine that many have thrown that idea to the curb.

Another is legal based, where the letter of the law is the fundamental source of right and wrong etc.

Anyway, I am searching a little bit, to kind of encompass some of my own experience, and some of the things I've seen etc. both in the lifestyle and the vanilla world.

Someone said to me recently that "The only way to deal with fantasy is make it real." And I think that could be a very bad thing considering what goes through some of our minds lol.

So you know, I was just looking for food for thought. And as has been said, people's "personal experience" is a result of their journeys', rather than a symptom of a lack of one as I first suspected, so if I offended you, then you have my apologies.

 

[knot_sweet]

I don't think you're ever going ot get a solid answer to your question.

Over the centuries, the rules of ethical right and wrong have changed so many times it staggers belief.

There are still cultures where it's normal for people to have post mortem marriages (China). There were cultures where it was normal and even encouraged for brother and sister to marry so as not to dilute the bloodlines. In many cultures, as soon as a girl had her first period she was considered able to marry and reproduce.

Are you (generic) going to explain your version of ethics and morality to those people? On what grounds do you (generic) claim ethical / moral superiority?

Me personally thinks that kinky people (especially in basically puritan christian culture) have enough soul searching and struggles with 'How can this be what I want' that they end up very very careful about choosing to indulge in their kinks.

If I want to do 'x' and my partner is able to give me informed consent and wants to let me do 'x', then I'm ok with it. If my partner safes or has set it up as a limit beforehand, and I do it anyway, that's wrong. There's my line.

 

[Amanda_T]

I don't think you're ever going ot get a solid answer to your question.

Over the centuries, the rules of ethical right and wrong have changed so many times it staggers belief.

There are still cultures where it's normal for people to have post mortem marriages (China). There were cultures where it was normal and even encouraged for brother and sister to marry so as not to dilute the bloodlines. In many cultures, as soon as a girl had her first period she was considered able to marry and reproduce.

Are you (generic) going to explain your version of ethics and morality to those people? On what grounds do you (generic) claim ethical / moral superiority?

Me personally thinks that kinky people (especially in basically puritan christian culture) have enough soul searching and struggles with 'How can this be what I want' that they end up very very careful about choosing to indulge in their kinks.

If I want to do 'x' and my partner is able to give me informed consent and wants to let me do 'x', then I'm ok with it. If my partner safes or has set it up as a limit beforehand, and I do it anyway, that's wrong. There's my line.

Well, you're definitely right, all of you, are definitely right in that "there is no one true way". that much has been clear to me for a long time. Anyone who says there IS a one true way, well, that sort of person scares me hahahahaahahha.

I had a small epiphany a little earlier, and I can understand why my questions seem to be so vague and searching, as well as a bit conflicted. To be honest, I'm not sure if I will explain further as it is quite personal. But I apologize for any slights, and I thank you all. I at least know now what my real question is, and what kind of answers I am looking for.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Ok. My apologies.

I took some of what was said last night for sure the wrong way

Of course, online it is very hard, when one doesn't know someone, to understand they are using the general "you" rather than the specific "You".

Yes, I do imagine that many of you have hammered it out for yourselves. That is what I wanted to talk about. What everyone thought about when "hammering" it out so to speak.

There seems to be a lot of a philosophy of ethics that stems from the hedonist ideal, in which "If it feels good do it" in the lifestyle, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing. But I can certainly see how "unrestrained hedonism" could end up in a bad place.

Hedonism has its own set of ethics, but they only apply to hedonism. BDSM, by definition MUST be the place where we are careful to keep our own council. Personally, I think most people are too stupid to engage in 24/7 D/s, but they don't think so. Who am I to judge, really?

The prescribed limits of "informed and knowledgeable consent" are a good idea, and a good limit.

There are many other schools of thought on ethics, like the religious one that says "all that is good and right and moral comes from God" right? but I do imagine that many have thrown that idea to the curb.

Another is legal based, where the letter of the law is the fundamental source of right and wrong etc.

Anyway, I am searching a little bit, to kind of encompass some of my own experience, and some of the things I've seen etc. both in the lifestyle and the vanilla world.

Someone said to me recently that "The only way to deal with fantasy is make it real." And I think that could be a very bad thing considering what goes through some of our minds lol.

yeah... No.

I agree with you, that's not always a good idea! That person must have a very easy fantasy life! Even so, I've been glad of the fantasies I have been able to make happen, and I will regret forever some of the things that are impossible.

So you know, I was just looking for food for thought. And as has been said, people's "personal experience" is a result of their journeys', rather than a symptom of a lack of one as I first suspected, so if I offended you, then you have my apologies.

I like that!

 

[dougsan]

Sella_Omega, right on about thirty years ago (not to mention 50 or more). Most of us have no idea what today's freedom, as limited as many think it is, cost us.

My "rules" or moral code has always been the same and is quite simply stated but not easy to practice: Do no harm, mental or physical.

A major problem comes to light when I meet a newbie to the bi or gay world who has yet to understand his wants and needs. Most of us are VERY fragile when we are trying to add bi or gay activities -- see our wishes and desires blossom. It is difficult not to hurt the newbies.