Romance turns sex into art.

[Angelofsex]

Without it, it's just a messy, sweaty business.

[/QUOTE]

Romance is an art. The setting, style and desire are all part of it. Making love is like painting a picture you take it nice and slow. Your setting could be candles and music, style as the lips are kissing and the hands are getting the desire ready for the picture is on the way of being completed. To me every part of romance is a art we want to paint and remember.

 

[BardsLady]

sex at First Sight Scenarios

Any one of them can be a sex at first sight story.

Even a simple meeting of two hikers on the same path, alone. They meet and no words need be spoken as they proceed to have wild sex then and there, then get dressed and go on their merry way. Will they ever cross paths again? That could be juice for a sequel.

hehehe It's something I like to call Primal. Sometimes it's not what you say, it's what you do that makes all the difference.



But then again.. that's just me. I think it's basically up to the author to determine if there is romance to be written, or just a wild romp in the woods.

BardsLady

 

[Why]

But, would the 'sex-at-first-sight' scene contain any form of romance?

Are any of those 'sex at first sight' scenes?

Well, I must admit the piece I put on the 600 words was a section taken from a longer work. The whole idea behind, what is the first chapter, what would make the woman have a "one night stand"

Personally, I need to "show" more than the "oh let's have sex and enjoy it" in a story. Sex is just one element to use to create your character. Though I often use erotic, or sexual material in my work it is not the driving force in it. The characters are. What they are doing and the reasons behind the actions are the most important, least to me.

Love/desire/sex/power/control/need/lust all are linked, all drive what we are.

 

[redrider4u]

Re: Re: I suggest..........

You're right in that it's a very personal perspective we each have on romance and sex.

And personally, a fast furious spontaneous fuck over a downed tree wouldn't be 'sex only' for me. well, i could do it that way too i reckon and without batting an eyelid.

If it hits a personal 'pleasure spot' then it must include some form of romance, right?

Actually, the above event did occur in the woods directly behind a strip shopping center years ago. As I recall, the thrill of being somewhat in the open and humor had a great role. It did have a tinge of romance, I agree.

 

[BardsLady]

sex at First Sight Scenarios

Well, I have to admit that I've never done half of what my mind really dreams up for me. But to put them down as a story is the biggest turn on for me.

I agree with you, wholeheartedly, Why. I need to show more than just the actual sex thing. I develope a plotline that keeps the sex to a minimal amount. Maybe one or two good scenes in my work.

The rest of the story builds up to those scenes. I had one anonymus person thank me for writing an acutal story instead of sex every other paragraph. And asked me to write more sequels following the same sort of thing.

Now, I'm waiting for the Powers that Be to approve Castile de la Luna for posting to relieve all those people who have been sending me private E-mails asking me when the story's gonna be comming out. hehehe And when the third episode/story/edition/whatever is going to be comming down the line.

BardsLady

 

[jon.hayworth]

Without it, it's just a messy, sweaty business.

[/QUOTE]

Question if a pair of Romantics were practicing coitus interuptus would not their lovemaking be a messy, sweaty business?

In all seriousness, sometimes two people can find they have all the chemical attraction to one another, without the romantic inclinations. They can make love very succesfully - indeed without the constraints of romance they may make love with greater passion and abandon than true lovers ever will.

I say this because romance constrains us not to be selfish - we are meant to put our partners enjoyment before our own and if two people are both more concerned for the other's enjoyment than their own a situation of excessive courtesy may easily develop.

I am not saying the good lover only grabs what they want and to hell with their partner. What I am saying is the art of sex includes both (or all) participants attaining their sexual nirvana and taking care that their partner does so also.

Now to the question - is it possible to write a romantic story that is also erotica - yes but in terms of a one page Jack-Off I am unsure whether it is possible without the story becoming too cluttered, as essentially sex would be the end act of the romance story. Take the story to 3000 words or more and it would be better, 10000 and it would be great.

jon

 

[BardsLady]

Nicely put Jon.

I also loved the tagline at the end!

I'm enjoying this thread of conversation. It makes a lot of us think about the debate at hand. Also, with scenarios, some of us get ideas for new stories. Me especially.


Keep up the debates, it's fun.

BardsLady

 

[wildsweetone]

Re: Re: Romance turns sex into art.

Question if a pair of Romantics were practicing coitus interuptus would not their lovemaking be a messy, sweaty business?

In all seriousness, sometimes two people can find they have all the chemical attraction to one another, without the romantic inclinations. They can make love very succesfully - indeed without the constraints of romance they may make love with greater passion and abandon than true lovers ever will.

I say this because romance constrains us not to be selfish - we are meant to put our partners enjoyment before our own and if two people are both more concerned for the other's enjoyment than their own a situation of excessive courtesy may easily develop.

I am not saying the good lover only grabs what they want and to hell with their partner. What I am saying is the art of sex includes both (or all) participants attaining their sexual nirvana and taking care that their partner does so also.

Now to the question - is it possible to write a romantic story that is also erotica - yes but in terms of a one page Jack-Off I am unsure whether it is possible without the story becoming too cluttered, as essentially sex would be the end act of the romance story. Take the story to 3000 words or more and it would be better, 10000 and it would be great.

jon

Playing the Devil's Advocate kinda fits you worryingly well jon

I do protest though. I think that if the chemical attraction is there, then the romance will shortly follow. I doubt it's possible for chemistry to not be automatically followed by more, after all, is chemistry not the beginning to the realising of interest between parties? Is it not the foreplay in which our minds revolve and expand? When chemical attraction is present, do we not wish to do more for our mate in order to enhance their experience? Can the enhancement be called 'romance'?

Was your definition of romance more inclined towards 'permanent' ties between mates?

I think 'one page' is just slightly too short to be a decent jack off piece, though one could read it twice I guess. But from what you've said, one should be able to write a story that is basic jack off containing chemical attraction without romance. Is that right?

The only thing that springs to mind is some kind of massively erotic quicky where mates are ripping clothes off each other without thought or care for each other. Hmm this needs more thinking.

Thanks for joining in Angelofsex, BardsLady, redrider4u and Why. It's an interesting discussion.

 

[jon.hayworth]

Re: Re: Re: Romance turns sex into art.

Playing the Devil's Advocate kinda fits you worryingly well jon

I do protest though. I think that if the chemical attraction is there, then the romance will shortly follow. I doubt it's possible for chemistry to not be automatically followed by more, after all, is chemistry not the beginning to the realising of interest between parties? Is it not the foreplay in which our minds revolve and expand? When chemical attraction is present, do we not wish to do more for our mate in order to enhance their experience? Can the enhancement be called 'romance'?

Was your definition of romance more inclined towards 'permanent' ties between mates?

I think 'one page' is just slightly too short to be a decent jack off piece, though one could read it twice I guess. But from what you've said, one should be able to write a story that is basic jack off containing chemical attraction without romance. Is that right?

The only thing that springs to mind is some kind of massively erotic quicky where mates are ripping clothes off each other without thought or care for each other. Hmm this needs more thinking.

Thanks for joining in Angelofsex, BardsLady, redrider4u and Why. It's an interesting discussion.

Maybe I am wrong in this definition - but my definition of a Romance story is that it has the "key" ingredients.

To make the example simple I will assume that there are only two people involved although the same formula might be applied to the formation of a threesome or more.

A has to meet B. A is interested in B. B reciprocates or appears to be willing to reciprocate.
Outside forces (known to at leasst one of the parties) present problems that appear to doom any possibility of a relationship between the two.
The body of the story involves resolving the obstacles.
The resolution is the end.

Think Romeo and Juliette or Westside Story.

Yes I think a romance usually has to lead to a future - unless you are considering something along the lines of a meeting of two people who are both tied to other relationships and spend one glorious time in bed together only to part and return to the ties that bind them - usually using noble reasons like "duty". Think "Brief Encounter" with sex!

Chemical attraction could be the start of a romance or merely a very intense sex session.

eg start for a Jack Off story based on chemical attraction.

"I was drinking a coffee in the college refectory after delivering a talk on the art of writing erotica, when I felt rather than saw her looking at me.
I looked across to where she was two tables away, she was sitting with a group of other women, all aspiring writers I surmised, but she was not a part of the group - I was the sole focus of her interest.
A brunette a bit flat chested, but most certainly attractive - I did not have any other lectures that day.
I returned her frank stare - holding eye contact with her I got to my feet and picked up my bag. I gave the slightest inclination of my head and strode out of the refectory, in the lobby I stopped by a notice board turned and watched the doors, seconds later she came through them.
"My room is probably better than yours," I placed an arm around her and led the way. ......"

I think that would lead easily into a one page Jack-Off story based upon no more than attraction there is a chemistry - he feels her stare, she responds to his look and secret gesture.

Jon

 

[BardsLady]

Of course, Jon, that story could possibly take a different direction and come out as a romantic interlude. Or an Erotic Coupling story. Have the ending as a Cliff hanger and you can keep the story going until people groan and beg you to stop.

BardsLady

 

[jon.hayworth]

BardsLady - I totally agree that story begining could go anywhere.

The point I was trying to demonstrate was that a single web page "jack-off" story needs an immediacy and that can be attained using the chemical attraction line. Whereas in say 800 words it would be exceptionally difficult to write a Romance genre story with enough sex to qualify for the category of being a "Jack-Off".

It might be an interesting exercise to get a load of people to write a story using identical openings and see where that took everyone - and the range of stories that appeared.

jon

 

[wildsweetone]

I was going to suggest writing something with little or no 'romance' but that's too open for misconstruing into writing that lots of us probably don't want to go into...

Jon's idea is a good one.

Though jon, the 'romance' type story is not quite was I was meaning... It's more along the lines of how much of an erotic story actually contains 'romance'. What do you define as the 'romance' in a story? Not the story itself. Make sense? Gosh it's difficult to explain.

 

[jon.hayworth]

WSO - Do you mean emotion as opposed to sexual desire and gratifacation.

By the way I have over 400 words of a story written already - The first Lit story I have written in a long time - Back to my suggestion, may I suggest stories get posted in the usual way and people return here to give the url and a synopsis.

jon

 

[wildsweetone]

Yes jon, that's what I meant... emotion.

And I think you're showing off, writing 400 words already. sheesh

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Romance

Now that we've been talking about this for awhile, should I risk ruiningthe party by suggesting we stop and actually try and figure out what it is we're talking about? What do we mean by "romance"?

As a rough, working definition, I think that romance means erotic tension or desire expressed symbolically or indirectly. Thus the sexual act itself isn't romantic (it can be, but doesn't have to be), but all the steps leading up to it are.

There are only a few limited ways to make love, but there an infinte number of romantic gestures and situations that can lead up to it, and that's what keep us erotic authors churning the stuff out.

The other day I was talking to someone about how, for a lot of people, the actual romance in a story ends when a person--usually the woman--consents to have sex. The real story is about how their partner goes about eliciting that consent from them-- that is, seducing them--what happens after the consent is given is not that interestingto a lot of people. I'm not one of them, but I think this is true for a large percentage of readers.


---dr.M.

 

[Quint]

Elaborating on my previous stance.

I think that romance in itself is not necessary to an artful story. I also think it can detract from the art.

My example, since that seems to be the trend: I just wrote a story that had no romance in it. The two main characters had, at best, a sort of respect for each other, but there was no question of smoochy feelings. No affection. No intentions to create a relationship. It was artful because they used each other to resolve serious flaws in their background and become better people. Resolution, and some very hot sex to those who are NC-inclined. My characters are my art. But there was no romance.

Likewise, I don't think I could have successfully incorporated romance into this particular story and kept my characters realistic (which I feel is a much more important qualification of "art"). Neither of them were emotionally ready to move on into that particular aspect of life. They needed more transition. It would have really screwed things up had I attempted to make her gratitude for the lesson she learned from him into love.

 

[Guest]

Re: Romance

Now that we've been talking about this for awhile, should I risk ruiningthe party by suggesting we stop and actually try and figure out what it is we're talking about? What do we mean by "romance"?

Very good question at this point. In an earlier post I also wanted to know this. I said, "My issue would be with the use of 'romance' ... Romance can cover much ground including some rather well defined terms to do with art, literaure and other cultural and historical times."

For a graduate student in English literature or theory there would be a very different definition than for many of the posters here so far. I can't comment further because I truly don't understand the question(s); and fyi I don't even agree w/Mab's usage though it at least came close to identifying something concrete.

disappointedly cordial, Perdita

 

[MathGirl]

Re: Romance

figure out what it is we're talking about? What do we mean by "romance"?

Dear Dr M,
Scientifically speaking, the first step is to define the least measurable unit of the subject. E.g. the photon for light, electron for electricity, etc.

Before we can begin, we need a name for it. "Rom" "Mance" "Tingle" "Mabeuse"???
MG

 

[wildsweetone]

Re: Romance

...As a rough, working definition, I think that romance means erotic tension or desire expressed symbolically or indirectly. Thus the sexual act itself isn't romantic (it can be, but doesn't have to be), but all the steps leading up to it are...


---dr.M.

I agree, the steps are the indicators of the 'romance'.

 

[Rainbow Skin]

The initial steps, feelings, doubts, joys, hesitations, discoveries are what make falling in love so emotional. Being in love is great too, but the week or so when everything changes and chemicals swirl is what you remember so vividly ever after.

These so important steps are while you're still being romantic, not sure whether it's going to get to sex. I don't think (I might be wrong) that it's the having sex as such that changes the status, but the fact that once you're that far advanced, you're past all the first thrilled discoveries.

I think it's good to reflect this in writing by focusing on the smiles and touches and jokes and sighs.

 

[wildsweetone]

I think it's good to reflect this in writing by focusing on the smiles and touches and jokes and sighs.

Can a single 'touch' be romantic, or is it a combination of several things that bring the 'romance'?

 

[jon.hayworth]

Can a single 'touch' be romantic, or is it a combination of several things that bring the 'romance'?

I am now totally lost as to what other peoples definitions of Romance are - and are we relating those definitions to written work - creating fiction or to real life?

As for a single touch being romantic, of course it can - even a look can initself be a romantic action. What is important is the context.

jon

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Re: Re: Romance

Dear Dr M,
Scientifically speaking, the first step is to define the least measurable unit of the subject. E.g. the photon for light, electron for electricity, etc.

Before we can begin, we need a name for it. "Rom" "Mance" "Tingle" "Mabeuse"???
MG

MG,
The latest news is, science has lost the battle between science and humanities. See, science is information without meaning. It takes the intervention of humanistic thought to give any meaning or value to scientific data.

I'm only half joking. Probably most of the people here on Lit approach writing as if it were a problem in engineering. It's become our default way of thining. We all know how to do science, even though we pretend it's hard. (It's not. It's complicated, but it's not difficult. A machine can do research.)

But be that as it may, as it were, in a sense (so to speak) if I may, the standard unit of Romatic Intensity is the Fabio (Fb) (replaces the obsolete and discredited 'Liberace', (Lb)); of Romantic "flow" the Leer (Lr), and of Romantic Resistance the Nun (Nun).

A Fabio is defined as the amount of romantic intensity contained in one glass of champagne (the Rose Standard is no longer in use.)

---dr.M., (still measured in Mega-Liberaces)

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Oops. I didn't notice that some people were serious.

My older stuff contains very little romance. It's mainly descriptions of people having sex. I think it's okay stuff and I don't see the need for romance in my porn. My earlier stuff starts with a few paragraphs of set up and gets into it right quick, spends a lot of time on what's going on, and ends where a few years ago they would have lit cigarettes but nowadays just lie there breathing. (Breathing is what you do instead of smoking)

I don't need romance in my porn. Hell, I don't even need love either as long as there's desire. In fact, I get turned off by too much love. It's boring. It loses that dangerous and dramatic edge that I like. I get the feeling that love smothers the very kind of sexual feelings that appeal to me the most, that I find the most exciting or arousing: discovery, mystery, adventure, danger. In loving stories you know that no one's going to be shocked or hurt or have their limits stretched. It's very safe, very Republican. It's like watching Dick Cheney trying to look hot in a dirty movie.

Lately I'm incorporating what might be called romance into my stuff, but it's more of what I'd call mystery or ambiguity; the sexuality of the world at large. The way places can be sexy, the curtains-blowing-out-the-empty-window stuff. I think it's too melancholy or threatening to be called romantic, but, hey, what can I say? I'm just an up-beat guy.

---dr.M.

 

[MathGirl]

Re: Re: Re: Romance

It's become our default way of thining. still measured in Mega-Liberaces

Dear Dr M,
I can only find two flaws in your rhetoric:
1. I've never noticed any 'thining' around here. I'm not even sure I'd recognize it.
2. What could possibly measured in units of queer, deceased, limp wristed old queens?
Please provide further information.
MG
Ps. The thought of even a kilo Liberace makes me a little queasy.