Score Vandalism

Could not agree more with that, but it was not a matter of this thread. I think that Simon was exaggerating when he said that no one was agreeing on anything (I said I 'think', I won't speak for him). There has been much agreement on certain things like removing or changing the definition of Red H, but there has been very much disagreement on the point of limiting voting to registered accounts.
I deliberately pointed out a tiny, easily implementable improvement that can only benefit everyone, authors or readers. On the other hand, it can easily be argued that Red H means something to readers who try to sift through stories. My personal stance about the Red H doesn't even matter. I just wanted an example that can't be shot down on any account.
 
Like what? I don't see much of this. I'm 100% opposed to requiring registration to vote, and I'm 100% opposed to eliminating anonymous commenting. I've made numerous suggestions for changes, and few people seem to agree with my suggestions. I don't see much unanimity about ANY suggestions for change in this forum.
So you believe in the Democrat idea of vote you idea and vote early and vote often, huh? No need to show an id. But I do agree with you I like the anonymous votes. I think they represent more than 50% of our readership. If I visit most sites, I do not want my name/email registered. I only registered here when I started writing and I'd been reading and commenting for years before that.
 
I'll just give you the tiniest example, the one that can be implemented in a matter of minutes, and the one I have seen supported and liked unanimously. Displaying the word count for series and standalone stories on the Author's page. You can find it in Manu's Beta thread so go and see for yourself. It's a mind-numbingly tiny request that literally requires displaying a number that is already there. As someone who programmed in HTML, I know that it takes five minutes to implement such a thing. It's such a minuscule thing but one that shows the enormity of not caring about our requests. And all that in a thread Manu started, a thread that specifically asked for our feedback ;)
Fine. I agree with that, although on a scale of 1 to 10 I'd give it a 2 in terms of things I care about. But that's a ministerial sort of change. It's not policy. It's not significant like what this thread is about. It would have no impact on the success of the site, probably. I imagine Manu and Laurel look at these requests and weigh the advantages of the change against what they may perceive as the disadvantages of having pages over-crowded with information, and I imagine they're constantly trying to figure out which changes to prioritize and which not to. It seems uncharitable, improbable, and a bit self-absorbed to me to interpret their behavior as "I don't care what the authors think."
 
Fine. I agree with that, although on a scale of 1 to 10 I'd give it a 2 in terms of things I care about.
I agree. Word count is a tool I use to decide if I want to even begin a story now or put it off. I means nothing in terms of my scoring. I do look at comments at times especially before beginning to read a long story from an unfamiliar author. And often if an author does not allow rating and/or comments I give his story a pass altogether unless I am bored and come back later in the day.
 
The best way to get good good scores is to write good stories.
Let's get real. The best way to get good good scores on Literotica is to write "comfortable" stories with good writing skill--and to pander.

I think, though, that the thread is taking up too much time that could go into writing stories. Nothing is going to change in the scoring system.
 
So you believe in the Democrat idea of vote you idea and vote early and vote often, huh? No need to show an id. But I do agree with you I like the anonymous votes. I think they represent more than 50% of our readership. If I visit most sites, I do not want my name/email registered. I only registered here when I started writing and I'd been reading and commenting for years before that.
Dude, there is no reason to bring politics into this.
 
I imagine Manu and Laurel look at these requests and weigh the advantages of the change against what they may perceive as the disadvantages of having pages over-crowded with information,
I imagine Manu and Laurel don't read any of these requests at all. But if they did/to the extent they do, I agree they would look at the advantage from the aspect of reader interest, not author interest. There's no problem with supply here. In fact, I'm sure Laurel would be delighted to receive half the daily submissions she does. On changes that would convenience them, though, I opine that dropping the red H system and just going with the already existing rating listing would convenience them--and benefit the reader, because whether or not a story has a red H here doesn't really mean what the reader is encouraged to think it means.
 
I deliberately pointed out a tiny, easily implementable improvement that can only benefit everyone, authors or readers. On the other hand, it can easily be argued that Red H means something to readers who try to sift through stories. My personal stance about the Red H doesn't even matter. I just wanted an example that can't be shot down on any account.
To me, the Red H thing is laughable. I've seen single scene wank scenes (not stories) get a red H. It is a flag though that catches a reader's attention that it might be a story to read.
I often don't even start a story that has less than a 3.5 rating unless by an author known to me.
 
Dude, there is no reason to bring politics into this.
Sure there is, especially when one party says the commentor/rater should 'register' by entering a user name, no matter how bare bones that may be. It simply attaches a name with an email someplace. Then the next party says he thinks all voting should be open to one and all with no restrictions. It is a basic point of where you think fairness lies. My using the "D" word might upset some.
 
Let's get real. The best way to get good good scores on Literotica is to write "comfortable" stories with good writing skill--and to pander.

I think, though, that the thread is taking up too much time that could go into writing stories. Nothing is going to change in the scoring system.
Stories don't even have to be all that 'comfortable'. They mainly have to be presented in a logical manner and not run in the readers face as 'take that!" But I agree. aAt times, I find myself spending (WASTING) far too much time here than writing. It usually comes after a session editing one of the two or three stories
 
You are Literotica's number-one fanboy. You have shown so many times that you are incapable of thinking critically about Literotica or Laurel. So I called out Simon for replying to me in the tone that he did - which looked like the reaction of a fanboy. It was mostly a small joke, nothing else. For what it's worth, I think you are generally easy to talk to and I believe I can talk about many topics with you in a very constructive and satisfying way, just not about Literotica and Laurel.

Why, thank you. But why do I need to think "critically" about anything, as you accuse me of not doing? I have free use of a site with tens of thousands reading my stories, I get good comments, intelligent feedback. I've figured out how the scoring system works, I reckon I know how sweeps work, and I know that not much will change, because why should it? Nobody has come up with any better system, not once.

The difference might be, I've never suffered the problems you guys are all on about. I have a story file that's 80% Red Hs, my lowest score at the moment is a 4.0x something, so I know my place on the bell curve. You'd think I'd suffer trolling, the amount I post here, but other than a single gutless piece of anonymous feedback some years ago (and I course I knew who it was), I don't. Sure, I see one-bombs when a story first rolls out, but I don't care, I know there'll be an adjustment each month or when the next contest rolls around, because ever since the sweeps were introduced, that's what happens.

So at the end of the day, seeing all these "complaints" about the site doing this or not doing that, and "Look what they've done to my score," I keep coming back to the same argument - it's the same readers doing what they do, and if it's all so malicious and targeted, why don't I see the same shit everyone else does?

That's why I reduce it to the only thing that really drives the whole thing, what you write, how you write it, and how readers react to it.

We're all in exactly the same mix of readers, they're all reacting en-masse they way they're reacting, so why do they react differently to me, compared to you? The generic "you", the generic "me".

Why does everyone dismiss what the readers think? They're the ones voting, commenting. They're the ones giving your story the score they've given it. There must be something in the story that says to them, "Yup, that's worth a 3 or a 4 or a 5." It's what each of us is writing, that determines that. The rest of it is immaterial, because it's exactly the same for all of us.
 
Let me preface this in noting that I have made it a personal goal over the past several years to NOT discuss LitE scoring in public. I learned early-on that it draws fire.

However, it is time to say something, especially because several of my stories' scores are suddenly getting hammered as it is, for no good reason beyond somebody or several somebodies wanting to punish them for... what?... having the vaunted "red 'H'"? A personal squick mentioned in passing? Existing in the first place?

What did I do to you, whoever you are?

The more prolific, established, and/or "senior" authors on the site wave-away discussions like this, asserting, "Scoring doesn't bother me." Okay, that is fine for you, you publish in popular categories and have many followers who are willing to "vote". Those of us whose interests are in the lightly-trafficked topics tend not to accumulate followers, and vote-to-reader ratios are very low in some categories.

Scores are important for "lesser" authors because they are: 1) indicative of overall reader interest; 2) a useful indicator of story quality; and 3) especially valuable in driving interest in the first place. Readers - this one included - will gravitate towards stories with higher scores in any given category.

Point-blank: maliciously-damaged scores reduce readership.

"There's no solution, @Laurel and @Manu aren't going to change how it works."

I disagree with "no solution". The system is clearly broken, and is penalizing writers in less-popular categories. This needs to be fixed. "One-bombs" and other user-accessible manipulations have a too-strong statistical effect on scores of well-written stories in minority categories.

The solution I propose is one proposed many times: only registered users can vote. OR, anonymous votes are simply recorded but ignored in computing the score average. Anonymous voting has run its course and proven to be detrimental to site and author participation.
It's not the fault of the site, of authors, or of readers that some categories have larger readerships than others. Nothing can be done about that. You can't tell people what to read.

As for the bombing? Nasty comments?

I've long suggested, and always been mocked for it, just what you're saying. No more anonymous. They can read, but can't vote or comment.

That's never going to happen either.

We all know what goes on here, and its been going on since day one, and it sucks and its unfair.

But the only choice you really have is to deal with it because....the site can't-and won't-depending on the topic, change anything about it.

I;m sure your post will get you more bombs because that's also how it is.
 
Hah! You haven't read much.

% of stories with Red H that suck ... about 90%
% of stories without Red H that suck ... about 90%
BAWAHAHA! Opinions...you know what they say about them right? They're like rectums everyone has one, but some stink more than others.

The bottom line is that unless you can make an argument that a particular change will be better FROM THE SITE'S POINT OF VIEW, NOT YOURS, you have no case to make. It's dead in the water. And hardly anybody advocating change ever does this. Getting rid of anonymous votes obviously would be bad from the Site's point of view, so they're not going to do it and they have no reason to do it.
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner! ANY change needs to be beneficial to the moneymaking potential of the site. Otherwise, it ain't a gunna' fly.

Comshaw
 
Eliminate anonymous votes and those 1s will have even more impact.

Who's more likely to sign up for an account to cast a vote? The scumbag who wants to tank your score, or the guy in a near coma with cum dribbling down his wrist?

All you do is reduce the overall voting pool for everyone and make it harder for the average reader to interact. The trolls will always find a way, and without that buffer of regular Joes/Janes, they'll be able to savage your score all the easier.

It's a foolish wish.
 
It seems uncharitable, improbable, and a bit self-absorbed to me to interpret their behavior as "I don't care what the authors think."
FanBoyOne calling FanBoyTwo, you there Blue Leader? Hostiles in-bound, twelve o'clock high!

@AwkwardlySet - those flying goggles in your avatar, are they new, Red Baron?

It's not what the authors think though, this is all about what readers think.

They probably wander into these threads, see all the hand-ringing and say, "It's really simple, I didn't think much of your story, but at least I voted, didn't I?"
 
Stories don't even have to be all that 'comfortable'. They mainly have to be presented in a logical manner and not run in the readers face as 'take that!"
That's not what I meant with "comfortable." I meant it being in terms of what the reader is looking for in coming here, and on a site like this, I think it's more often than not something basic like "happy ending of the story" or "coming here to get a one-handed happy ending for yourself" rather than "that was a literary take on the Iliad, wasn't it?" It's something different for different readers, but on a porn story site, I think it's far more likely to be low brow than literary. I agree that it rarely is looking for a "take that!" story approach, "take that" is often the makings of a great story (in literary terms).

I do know I can get a red H far more easily on Literotica by including steamy sex scenes than I can in exploring the emotions of a relationship in trouble. And I do know a writing site or two where it's the other way around.
 
FanBoyOne calling FanBoyTwo, you there Blue Leader? Hostiles in-bound, twelve o'clock high!

@AwkwardlySet - those flying goggles in your avatar, are they new, Red Baron?

It's not what the authors think though, this is all about what readers think.

They probably wander into these threads, see all the hand-ringing and say, "It's really simple, I didn't think much of your story, but at least I voted, didn't I?"

FanBoyOne, I've got my guns sighted on the ComplaintStar's small thermal exhaust port. Darth @AwkwardlySet won't know what hit him.
 
We're all in exactly the same mix of readers,
I've got to cry "tilt" on this one. This is a humongous site on breadth of reading interest. There isn't a "same mix of readers" here. There is a collection of separate categories of reader interest, with some overlapping. I can pretty much guarantee that my reader base in GM isn't tooling around in the Loving Wives "mix" much here.

On another point, a "view" does not ipso facto represent a "reader" here. You have no idea how many readers you have here for any work. "Vote" doesn't even get you there. Folks vote here without reading any part of the story.

Fine with me if you're content with your response for posting stories here. If more here were, there would be fewer wheels spinning score complaint threads.
 
That's not what I meant with "comfortable." I meant it being in terms of what the reader is looking for in coming here, and on a site like this, I think it's more often than not something basic like "happy ending of the story" or "coming here to get a one-handed happy ending for yourself" rather than "that was a literary take on the Iliad, wasn't it?
Actually many of the better stories here are not hardcore porn. Of course the edgier part of the sex is a draw. But many of the stories are really good reads even if you don't have your cock in your hand or a finger up your hole.
I agree that to me, I like to see a story where there is a happy or at least a fair resolution or at the minimum with some stories, justice at the the end.
 
Actually many of the better stories here are not hardcore porn.
How do you know that? You haven't read all of the stories here, have you? There are too many stories in the Literotica file for anyone to make a bald claim like this.

(and, yeah, though, my three highest ranked stories at Lit. are in a nonerotic account file. I was a writer of nonerotic stories many years before turning my hand to erotica.)
 
It's not the fault of the site, of authors, or of readers that some categories have larger readerships than others. Nothing can be done about that. You can't tell people what to read.

As for the bombing? Nasty comments?

I've long suggested, and always been mocked for it, just what you're saying. No more anonymous. They can read, but can't vote or comment.

That's never going to happen either.

We all know what goes on here, and its been going on since day one, and it sucks and its unfair.

But the only choice you really have is to deal with it because....the site can't-and won't-depending on the topic, change anything about it.

I;m sure your post will get you more bombs because that's also how it is.
This There are a lot of good suggestions in this thread. that said none of them improve the cash flow end of it. And that my friends is what it's all about M-O-N-E-Y! It is a business. As such the owners will do what they need to maximize profits. As it should be. I'd do the same if it was my site.

I learned a long time ago I can't make someone else do what I want them to. That goes for this site. I can however change how I do things. If I decide I'm after the red H above all I'll figure out what I need to write to get there. If I decide I'm going to write exactly what I want to write and to hell with the red H and scores, I'll turn off voting and post my story. What I can't do is force the site to do what I want them to so that I can write what I want to AND get high scores because I think it should. It's a matter of choosing what it is I want to accomplish and working within the available rules to get there. It's a matter of choosing wisely. Trying to force something that isn't going to move or change is a recipe for frustration. I save my tilting at windmills mode for really important things in my life.

Comshaw
 
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How do you know that? You haven't read all of the stories here said:
Okay, I concede. I only read 15 to 20 stories here per day which means I waste a tremendous amount of time. Even then I skip over many of the parts in those stories describing how the massive hard,pulsating tab A is inserted into the soaking wet quivering slot B. I then go on to see if there is a story being told.
 
To be honest, I write on this site for a reason. I can include things here into my stories that might not be acceptable on regular sites. It is like stepping up from G to X rated. The story/movie does not have to be graphic, but the themes are more for an adult audience.
 
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