Semicolons and dashes- American and English English

[fridayam]

Couldn't be that one. "Primary" is a limiting adjective--not a sweeping generalization like "whole" is.

Be my guest in trying again.

cluck, cluck yourself.

Primary is limiting, but necessarily the most important (primus).

Us non-flying English need to go to bed. Goodnight.

 

[sr71plt]

Primary is limiting, but necessarily the most important (primus).

Well, yes, that's what I said (more than once).

I think it all does come down to you, in fact, believing that rhythm is all that is important. That understanding isn't. And that's what you did here on this thread--sacrifice precision and reader understanding all just to entertain yourself with the rhythm of your self-satisfying prose.

(We call that "writer's masturbation" in the publishing house.)

 

[JSensei]

No, "Sensei" (self-proclaimed teacher).

I truly hate to get back in this mess, but I suppose as you weren't one of my students, that would make me self proclaimed. JSensei was, in fact what my students called me. The J is short for Jyoudan, which is the katakana spelling of my name. The Sensei was the mark of respect they gave me as their teacher. Was it deserved? Well, after some of the gains I saw my students made in two years, I'd say that it was. I was particularly proud of the children I taught. When you teach a two year old how to answer questions (simple though they were) in English, you too, can call yourself Sensei.

 

[sr71plt]

I truly hate to get back in this mess, but I suppose as you weren't one of my students, that would make me self proclaimed. JSensei was, in fact what my students called me. The J is short for Jyoudan, which is the katakana spelling of my name. The Sensei was the mark of respect they gave me as their teacher. Was it deserved? Well, after some of the gains I saw my students made in two years, I'd say that it was. I was particularly proud of the children I taught. When you teach a two year old how to answer questions (simple though they were) in English, you too, can call yourself Sensei.

Well, that's wonderful, then. You can call me Sensei too. (You're not the only one between the two of us who has lived--and taught--in Japan.)

I didn't realize your students registered you into Literotica. I guess I was assuming too much to think you had done that yourself.

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

... Btw, diss Fowler at your peril--he is still the ... funniest, theorist of written language, ...

I used to think that until I read Lyn Truss's Eats, shoots and leaves.

 

[hoo_hoo_boo]

Thank you!

I want to say a big thank you to all of you who have tried to help. In order of posting I want to say, sr71plt, Bella Mariposa, Firebrain, JSensei, Asylum Seeker, snoopercharmbrights and fridayam, you are all wonderful and I can only regard you all as masters of this language of ours, masters whom I could envy but, instead, will admire. I sincerely hope I haven't missed anyone.

I have always had problems with writing- to the extent that I have many times sought diagnosis as to why. At school, I could always be guaranteed a fail in English. The moment I had to write more than a few lines was the moment I knew I'd fail.

Its been a long time since I left school and I have persisted in trying to learn. I refused the assistance of an editor because I felt that I couldn't hand my problems over to someone else, I had to sort them out on my own.

Its only in the last eighteen months that I have been capable of writing a story that I could understand when I go back to it two or three months later. Normally I had to keep a story for a few years and continually go back to it before it made sense. I'm now very pleased with myself! I guess it seems strange. It is for me too.

Why I can talk so well and not be able to write was a problem I couldn't answer. I want to extend myself further now. hoo_hoo is the laughter of derision my writing usually elicited. Boo is the surprise when I at last get it right. I'm not purfect, I know, but I'd rather be woofect as I have more affinity with dogs. Please forgive the spelling error but I hope it provides a smile for you in its context.

The day after tomorrow I shall be seeking the books that have been so generously recommended and I will read them all. I want to become proficient with my language skills as it has been a huge part of my life. Its been like trying to walk without legs.I'm now ready to take it further.

Thank you all so much. I feel very humble that you have all been so generous. Thank you so much.

 

[fridayam]

You are very welcome for whatever good advice you managed to glean from the hullabaloo! And I wish you well with your writing. Even for those of us without your problems, writing is like taking a big stick to beat yourself with every day But we get through and hopefully it is worth it. Best wishes.

 

[squarejohn]

"The semicolon is problematical and its use should be avoided." That sentence is a quote from the guidelines for writing a master's thesis. The guidelines were authored by a former girlfriend's professor, and were clipped to the copy of her thesis which she handed to me to read. Although I could understand his position, I was--and still am--unable to agree with it; even though I am one of many who agonized over when to use it--or not use it.

Purists--bless their hearts--can, and probably will, attack the above passage; and depending on their own level of expertise--real or imagined--will dissect and diagram the several sentences, and offer their own opinion; and for this sentence as well.

I don't think there will be much disagreement with my view that a fiction writer should write for the reader. Punctuation, if it is according to the rules, may not lend the impact you wish; however, if you bend--or even break--the rules; so long as the reader enjoys what you have written, you have done your job.

Try writing a scene with no dashes. Use the semicolon when you think it's necessary. Write the same scene with dashes in place of the semicolons, and see how that reads. There will be a hell of a difference in how they read. One will fall flat and the other will have--at least some--life. I have seen long sentences filled with dashes, and semicolons between the dashes, that were a delight to read. It never occurred to me to judge the correctness of the punctuation; the author had made his point.

To finish this, learn the rules of punctuation as well as you can. Then you will know when you can get away with breaking the rules, if that should become necessary, to make it a better read.




.

 

[sr71plt]

I think this thread broke down precisely on a disagreement on that point.

 

[Firebrain]

I think this thread broke down precisely on a disagreement on that point.

No, it didn't (I need a laugh icon). Nobody disagreed with that at all. Frankly, it's got bugger all to do with use of semicolons in this instance - the same as many of the points you've made here. That's why so many of your "points" have been ignored.

Whether a writer writes for readers - or themselves - is ultimately a moot point. So long as they are technically correct, the publishing market as it stands seems to suggest that it doesn't really matter. How else does one explain the pompous tripe pumped out by half the people on the bestsellers lists? Hell, the most successful work I have done to date is written solely, selfishly for me. The only time this becomes a problem is when the writer stops bothering to punctuate but this applies to very few.

Very few people go out to make their punctuation hard for the reader to follow. There are sometimes writers who purposely convolute their sentences for reasons of style and perceived superiority, but the OP evidently isn't one of them - so if you want to debate the issue, I suggest you start a new thread.