SMACK--a concept, a gathering. Welcome.

[Pure]

SSP said,

they slap my face, slam me up against a wall, shove me to my knees, and he makes me suck him off. makes me hold his cum in my mouth and open wide for him to see. slaps me SO hard and says "now swallow that shit bitch". i swallow, and he walks past me and opens the door "now get the fuck out". that would fit the definition of degrading, right? but in that scenario, i would enjoy it. i know it sounds crazy..but my wanting and needing him and his utter cold indifference to that...makes me hot.

I'd say many would call it degrading and find it too disrespectful.

Out of curiosity, how much 'respect' do you want? Do you see 'bitch' and 'whore' as essentialy just terms he uses in play acting? (i.e, he doesn't mean them). Would it bother you, hypothetically, if I interviewed him on tape, and he said, "Sigsauer is a real whore, a bitch slut I allow to crawl from her gutter occasionally. I'm not kidding you."

If he does disrespect you, does that affect your self respect?

The disrespect issue is not unlike the contempt issue. How in the world does one find the right degree and kind of these things in a partner? Often it's role played; the Top says, "Lick my shoes, worm." and at the end, "Will that be cash or charge, Mr. Jones."

Further Tops get incredibly jaded. Like 'ho hum.' One solution I've thought of, and had some experience with, is to have the Top 'bring a friend'. Naturally this less-experienced friend will know a few things, but maybe has never seen the degrading act in question. In such case, the friend's comments and statements, encouraged by the Top, reflect genuine disgust, contempt etc.

J.

 

[Marquis]

Further Tops get incredibly jaded. Like 'ho hum.' One solution I've thought of, and had some experience with, is to have the Top 'bring a friend'. Naturally this less-experienced friend will know a few things, but maybe has never seen the degrading act in question. In such case, the friend's comments and statements, encouraged by the Top, reflect genuine disgust, contempt etc.

J.

That's a good idea!

 

[NoJo]

Weidros

I was recommended this thread by Pure, who's trying to increase awareness in BDSM:

But I'm afraid it's just confirmed my suspicions - you guys are just a bunch of sick weirdos that should be trussed up with 1,000 watt Chrismas Tree lights that burn your flesh with their heat so you smell like roast pigs; and you should then have the sharp end of a huge Christmas tree in a busy shopping mall shoved up your asses and be made to dress like a goddam Tinkerbell fairy with little lace wings and a wand, and get ogled at by all the people in the shopping mall until your Wife and Kids see you up there and kill themselves laughing at you while they were shopping for a giant strap-on which was going to be your Xmas present.

Other that that, I think it's a very interesting thread.

 

[sigsauerprinces]

SSP said,

they slap my face, slam me up against a wall, shove me to my knees, and he makes me suck him off. makes me hold his cum in my mouth and open wide for him to see. slaps me SO hard and says "now swallow that shit bitch". i swallow, and he walks past me and opens the door "now get the fuck out". that would fit the definition of degrading, right? but in that scenario, i would enjoy it. i know it sounds crazy..but my wanting and needing him and his utter cold indifference to that...makes me hot.

I'd say many would call it degrading and find it too disrespectful.

Out of curiosity, how much 'respect' do you want? Do you see 'bitch' and 'whore' as essentialy just terms he uses in play acting? (i.e, he doesn't mean them). Would it bother you, hypothetically, if I interviewed him on tape, and he said, "Sigsauer is a real whore, a bitch slut I allow to crawl from her gutter occasionally. I'm not kidding you."

i want some respect. its important to me that i know deep down that he respects me to a degree and has feelings for me. i see the terms bitch and whore as terms of play, yet also real terms. as in, he sees me as a bitch and a whore sometimes..but he also sees me as his sub, whom he loves.

if you interviewed him on tape saying that about me? yeah it would hurt. i wouldnt like it. no matter how mean he is..no matter how much degradation and humiliation and pain im put thru, i need to know he cares about me. so if he talked about me like that, i'd probly be upset and come to the conclusion that he didnt care about me. i couldnt play with someone-whether it was just casual play or a serious relationship-if i thought they really honestly didnt give a fuck about me. what i crave is someone who will treat me like the example i gave above..and yet just often enough, give out affection. because its all the more sweet when it doesnt come all the time. for example if he did the above but instead of telling me to get the fuck out after, after i swallowed if he pulled me up and then punched me hard, and then grabbed my hair and looked into my eyes and said " i love you" ...then pushed me down on the floor and fucked me painfully..all the while looking in my eyes, so i could see in them how much he loved me..to me, that would be heaven. and i would be saying "i love you" back, over and over.

If he does disrespect you, does that affect your self respect?
if i dont respect him, no. but once ive started respecting and liking someone, if they disrespect me, it does affect my own self respect, even if its only temporarily.

The disrespect issue is not unlike the contempt issue. How in the world does one find the right degree and kind of these things in a partner? Often it's role played; the Top says, "Lick my shoes, worm." and at the end, "Will that be cash or charge, Mr. Jones."

Further Tops get incredibly jaded. Like 'ho hum.' One solution I've thought of, and had some experience with, is to have the Top 'bring a friend'. Naturally this less-experienced friend will know a few things, but maybe has never seen the degrading act in question. In such case, the friend's comments and statements, encouraged by the Top, reflect genuine disgust, contempt etc.

J.

 

[sigsauerprinces]

Re: Weidros

I was recommended this thread by Pure, who's trying to increase awareness in BDSM:

But I'm afraid it's just confirmed my suspicions - you guys are just a bunch of sick weirdos that should be trussed up with 1,000 watt Chrismas Tree lights that burn your flesh with their heat so you smell like roast pigs; and you should then have the sharp end of a huge Christmas tree in a busy shopping mall shoved up your asses and be made to dress like a goddam Tinkerbell fairy with little lace wings and a wand, and get ogled at by all the people in the shopping mall until your Wife and Kids see you up there and kill themselves laughing at you while they were shopping for a giant strap-on which was going to be your Xmas present.

Other that that, I think it's a very interesting thread.

i like the way i am. i like the things i do-they make me happy. i could really give a shit what anyone else thinks.

 

[NoJo]

sigsauerprinces

sigsauerprinces,

I'm disappointed, but not surprised, that you failed to get my humor -- I hope it's only because I have a dry, British humor which doesn't always survive Continental travel.

I hope you didn't respond that way because you think there's a vast sea of uncouth people out there who despise SM, and I'm one of them: Believe me, *everyone* plays the game to some extent. We're in the majority. The only thing some of us do different is explore our fantasies a little more openly.

I like my SM with a little humor -- Just so you know, Pure invited me here I guess, because I like stirring the bullshit. Which I will continue to do until escorted out of the building.

Well, looking through this thread, I get a feeling like we're a thread for misunderstood people. Which is not true. If you take this stuff too seriously, you'll get into a head-fucked mess. Really.

Being a sub is a release from guilt or responsibility.
Being a dom(me) is a way of asserting a power you feel you lack in RL.

If your partner is a sub, and you love them, you'll play their game, even if you're not a dom by nature. The fact that you're "doing it for them" shows you respect them. It's a lovely little paradox that a sub will appreciate her partner degrading her , and take it as a sign of respect.

And it all has a funny aspect to it. Which is the aspect I like to focus on. Funny stuff.

It can get dark, or complex, particularly when you factor in people's family relationships, work relationships. That's why it's important to keep your sense of humor and proportion here.

I'm a full-time screenwriter: I'm writing a film screenplay that draws on my experiences: It's just amazing how little has been produced that really captures the complex interplay between "real" and "pretend" that goes on. "Blue Velvet" got the mood, I think.

 

[sigsauerprinces]

Re: sigsauerprinces

sigsauerprinces,

I'm disappointed, but not surprised, that you failed to get my humor -- I hope it's only because I have a dry, British humor which doesn't always survive Continental travel.

I hope you didn't respond that way because you think there's a vast sea of uncouth people out there who despise SM, and I'm one of them: Believe me, *everyone* plays the game to some extent. We're in the majority. The only thing some of us do different is explore our fantasies a little more openly.

I like my SM with a little humor -- Just so you know, Pure invited me here I guess, because I like stirring the bullshit. Which I will continue to do until escorted out of the building.

Well, looking through this thread, I get a feeling like we're a thread for misunderstood people. Which is not true. If you take this stuff too seriously, you'll get into a head-fucked mess. Really.

Being a sub is a release from guilt or responsibility.
Being a dom(me) is a way of asserting a power you feel you lack in RL.

If your partner is a sub, and you love them, you'll play their game, even if you're not a dom by nature. The fact that you're "doing it for them" shows you respect them. It's a lovely little paradox that a sub will appreciate her partner degrading her , and take it as a sign of respect.

And it all has a funny aspect to it. Which is the aspect I like to focus on. Funny stuff.

It can get dark, or complex, particularly when you factor in people's family relationships, work relationships. That's why it's important to keep your sense of humor and proportion here.

I'm a full-time screenwriter: I'm writing a film screenplay that draws on my experiences: It's just amazing how little has been produced that really captures the complex interplay between "real" and "pretend" that goes on. "Blue Velvet" got the mood, I think.

hahaha..alright then. (although i do know all about dry british hummour, trust me).

i like what you said about a vanilla dominating their sub spouse out of respect...humiliating her becuase he respects her. that was cool.

id love to see another movie that deals with bdsm. what did you think of secretary?

 

[NoJo]

Re: Re: sigsauerprinces

id love to see another movie that deals with bdsm. what did you think of secretary?

You may think this is weird -- I think other writers do it too though -- but I'm scared to see any new movies that have anything to do with what I'm writing! I asked a friend of mine to tell me a little about it -- I breathed a small sigh of relief, it's not really the same as my story -- which if it ever gets sold, won't be out for another two years at least . "Secretary" sounds good though. Did it seem like it had insight into D/S? Or was it just titillation (and don't get me wrong, I'm all in favour of titillation in the movies -- but I can get really hot porn videos for that).

There was a French film out a couple of years ago about a sub woman: I can't remeber the title. I think it was a one-word title. There were very long scenes with a lot of detail of her getting tied up and gagged. It was very sexy, but you came out of the film thinking "huh?" -- I mean you had no idea at the end *why* she was the way she was.

 

[sigsauerprinces]

Re: Re: Re: sigsauerprinces

You may think this is weird -- I think other writers do it too though -- but I'm scared to see any new movies that have anything to do with what I'm writing! I asked a friend of mine to tell me a little about it -- I breathed a small sigh of relief, it's not really the same as my story -- which if it ever gets sold, won't be out for another two years at least . "Secretary" sounds good though. Did it seem like it had insight into D/S? Or was it just titillation (and don't get me wrong, I'm all in favour of titillation in the movies -- but I can get really hot porn videos for that).

There was a French film out a couple of years ago about a sub woman: I can't remeber the title. I think it was a one-word title. There were very long scenes with a lot of detail of her getting tied up and gagged. It was very sexy, but you came out of the film thinking "huh?" -- I mean you had no idea at the end *why* she was the way she was.

secretary was good. i didnt like it at first, because the girl who's a sub starts out just leaaving a mental institution-and im thinking oh god, yeah, thats right, we're all fucked up mentally, mmmhmm.

but then we see why..she cuts herself, when she's upset. she meets Mr. Gray...he tells her "you will never do that again". and she doesnt. because he replaces that-he gives her what she was needing, what she was craving. i think the movie really shows what it was that each of them had that the other needed. theres not a WHOLE lot of titilation, tho the first spanking scene is wonderfully intense because shes not expecting it at all and he just goes WHACK, really hard. and then again and again. it was a hot scene but more than that it was an intense scene...

i was impressed by it, but i still want to see more movies about it, since there are so few that really delve into why ppl do it and what they get out of it.

 

[NoJo]

Well, from what you said, it sounds as though the film made out she was f***d up. Reminds me of the old movies where gays always had to be shown to be mentally disturbed.

Still, I guess I have to go see it. I love the poster for it they had in London. A nice rear view of a pair of long legs. It just said "Assume the Position."

 

[bridgeburner]

"Damn, it's hot."

"Yes, but it's a dry, British, heat."



-B

 

[bridgeburner]

I really enjoyed Secretary and I thought they did a great job of taking her from institutionalized to showing how sane she was --- certainly saner than any of her family members. I also liked the way in which they explored the D/s impulses in non-sexual ways --- so as to make the audience focus on the mentality rather than just be titillated by explicit sex and turn their big heads off.


Joe,

I think the French film you're talking about might be Romance by Catherine Breillat who later gave us A Ma Soeur.



-B

 

[Pure]

I believe (maybe??) the movie might be 'baise-moi', loosely translated to its English version 'rape me'.

{{Added: that's a wrong guess}}

There's also one called "The Piano" iirc.

{{Added: Actually, it's 'The Piano Teacher'-- but SubJoe is probably thinking of 'Romance' as BridgeBurner says.}}

Joe, yer kindova "weirdro" yerself else you would not get off on telling us--so sadly and exquisitely victimized-- how fucked up we are.

I think yer a sadist-bottom who's just a big meany toward the weak and helpless.

did I say 'sadist'? well i just re-read that silly initial statement about SM so i guess I hafta say 'welcome.'

 

[NoJo]

It was 'baise-moi' I was trying to recall. Thank you.

The people I really despise are the strong and helpless.

I'm in the throes of my screenplay. It's been very tough to write. I have so many ideas, that the plot gets lost. But I think that (once I get it to first draft and registered with the WGA) I'd really appreciate it if you and your pervert friends would read it.

The two main protagonists have virtually no physical contact. But the stuff that goes on between them comes from my real experiences from being with, and speaking with, prodommes and clients. I think that the subtext is always the most interesting part of a story.

Of course with role-playing games, the subtext and text get mixed up. And after a while it's pointless trying to disentangle them. Unless your life is under threat...

 

[bridgeburner]

There is no bondage in Baise Moi --- but there are lots of hardcore shots while two fed-up French women go on a bloody rampage knocking over liquor stores and killing their johns.

Romance is about a woman whose boyfriend won't fuck her anymore although he claims to love her. She goes looking for what she's missing and we see her in a couple of different relationships and a stranger-rape in a stairwell. The bondage part is administered by her boss at the school she teaches in ----he's got this long speech about how ugly he is and how women are repulsed by him but allow him to tie them up and fuck them anyway.



-B

 

[NoJo]

Bridge; You're right -- it was "Romance" I must have been thinking of. My memory is pretty -- what's the word -- oh, yeah "fucked". Now that I'm off tobacco, I guess I gotta stop smoking the weed too.

Doesn't the teacher make a speech about how he's an incredible expert on sex too? Had thousands and thousands of encounters. He's so, so, like me. It's uncanny.

 

[NoJo]

I didn't see this post till now. Thanks. I'm going to see "Secretary" -- if I can stand it -- it sounds closer to what I'm writing than I'd like -- I started my script a while ago: before "Secretary" came out.

I really enjoyed Secretary and I thought they did a great job of taking her from institutionalized to showing how sane she was --- certainly saner than any of her family members. I also liked the way in which they explored the D/s impulses in non-sexual ways --- so as to make the audience focus on the mentality rather than just be titillated by explicit sex and turn their big heads off.


Joe,

I think the French film you're talking about might be Romance by Catherine Breillat who later gave us A Ma Soeur.



-B

 

[Pure]

Capsules of two movies, Romance, and The Piano Teacher.
(Baise moi is not the film SJ was thinking of, as I thought earlier.)

Romance
Catherine Breillat
Controversial for its explicit sexual content, Catherine Breillat's Romance is as daring for its ideas as its eroticism. Involved in an affair that has stalled because her boyfriend refuses to have sex with her, a woman decides to explore other avenues in a series of intimate adventures. "A dark and unsparing study of female masochism and a brittle sex comedy of manners" (Amy Taubin, The Village Voice). This is the unrated version of the film. ADULTS ONLY. In French with English subtitles. France, 1999, 95 mins.
Videotape


http://www.iofilm.co.uk/fm/p/piano_teacher_2001.shtml
The Piano Teacher


Director Michael Haneke
Writer Michael Haneke, based on the novel by Elfriede Jelinek
Stars Isabelle Huppert, Benoit Magimel, Annie Girardot, Anna Sigalevitch, Susanne Lother
Certificate 18
Running time 125 minutes
Country France/Austria
Year 2001
Reviewed by The WolfFor all its exquisite incomprehension, Michael Haneke's award-winning film is difficult to watch. Psychological damage manifests itself in many different forms. Why this should appear shocking compliments the director's objectivity and the actors' commitment.

Erika Kahut (Isabelle Huppert) is in her late thirties, a respected teacher at the Vienna Conservatoire. She conveys no warmth, charm or interest in anything outside her work. She bullies her pupils, appears to take pleasure in their distress. Emotionally she is a closed book, except at home where she fights with her mother (Annie Girardot), a volatile interfering woman.

What happens next requires a leap of the imagination that some may find hard to accomplish. Walter (Benoit Magimel), a prospective pupil, becomes infatuated by her. He is blond, tall, good-looking and more than 20 years her junior. Love is blind, perhaps, but mad as well? Erika's relationship with her mother is essential to understanding her character.

Both are control freaks, with impossibly high expectations. Not only do they share an apartment, but also sleeping quarters, which seems odd after all these years. The business with Walter comes to a head, so to speak, in the ladies lavatory at the Conservatoire.

Even in matters of sex, Erika must have rules. Hers are unexpected, to say the least. Haneke is a voyeur. [...] Erika's pain is real. Walter's anger is real. Haneke documents the humiliation and the desire, as a newsman might report a suicide. He is careful not to intrude and yet insistent on seeing everything.

 

[bridgeburner]

Joe,

Doesn't the teacher make a speech about how he's an incredible expert on sex too? Had thousands and thousands of encounters. He's so, so, like me. It's uncanny.

hahah, yes, that's the one!

I was surprised to see Rocco Siffreidi in it since he's an actual porn star and as sexually explicit as Breillat's films are I don't know if I'd call them porographic. I mean, yes, they're about sex, but they're more about the impulses and thought processes behind the characters' sexuality rather than about the acts themselves.

The more I think about it the more I think that's what differentiates "erotica" from "porn" for me.

A Ma Soeur is a bit slow moving but the overtones of sexual power and powerlessness are big in it as well. I found it particularly interesting because of the age of the two sisters in it --- they're only just beginning to experiment with their sexuality and all of the different ways in which they think about sex and boys/men rang very true to my memory of being that age.

It's also an interesting look at rape. A very gray area film.


-B

 

[rosco rathbone]

I gotta get netflix....sounds like I'm totally missing out.

 

[Netzach]

she's fucked up in Secretary, but not as fucked as the people in, like...Requiem for a Dream.

Doesn't being a little fucked up seem requisite for good story? Although "fucked gratis fuckis" (fucked for the sake of fucked) is not the automatic recipie for good story that a lot of people think it is.

My highly irregular erotic life would be really dull fiction, really. It would read like erotic fluff...everyone's a little dysfucntional, but at worst in debt, the mad jealous heated passions are more silly and sensual.

I'm getting way off the SMACK here.

 

[Pure]

au contraire, ma soeur, to love cruel treatment, as in 'Sec'y 'or "The Piano Teacher", is of the essence of SMACK, the more fucked up the more interesting!

 

[Quint]

she's fucked up in Secretary, but not as fucked as the people in, like...Requiem for a Dream.

God, that movie hurt. There's my best example of emotional masochism--from the sobbing and wide-eyed disbelief during to the comparatively-pure, clean, empty mental space that comes afterwards. (Who says I'm not an advocate of enemas?)

Howdy, Joe. Nice to have you on board--I tend to be a little too literal and pompous; could use some subtlety to lighten me up. I'll probably have to turn elsewhere for that.

 

[bridgeburner]

oh god. Requiem for a Dream

Well-made film but what was the fucking point of yet another film about how heroin is bad?

I really liked the Gilliam-esque scenes with Eileen Brennan but all in all I'm not a fan of films where I just watch beatiful people turn to shit.



-B

 

[bridgeburner]

Netflix rules!


But they don't have a big enough selection of cheesy sexploitation movies.



-B