Snuff Story - Prohibited on Literotica or Not?

[sr71plt]

To SR71Plt - I was asking for clarification on Lit's rules about snuff stories, since what I had found in my searching on the site didn't clearly state the matter one way or another.

Thanks for the comments, one and all.

I hope what you went away with was the realization that you aren't going to get a black/white ruling on what will fly and what won't. If you have one you're worried about, go ahead and try it out. The worst thing that can happen is that it's turned down, which is no worse an end result than not submitting it at all.

My current serial posting to Lit. is a murder mystery in which the murderer is doing what others here identify as snuff (although I continue to think that snuff is only attached to visual presentation that stems from real murder, not in written fictional stories). That's what the crime involved is. The second chapter of this serial, which was processed through without trouble, would qualify as snuff--if I agreed that written stories can be classified as snuff (which I don't). If I left the graphic sex during murder out of it, I could publish this even in the mainstream without any legal problem or censorship in Boston whatsoever.

 

[lovecraft68]

Bullshit, lovey. You are just a slave to your one-note sambas--in this case whining incessantly to the wrong people about what the Web site should do for you. And now you're trying to rub out your tracks.

And here you are defaulting to the one note samba joke. It's all you have and doesn't really make any sense.

You just proved in this thread that you can not lay off commenting on my comments. I piss you off because I think, no I know that you are nothing here(or anywhere else in a life so mundane you have to make up a fantasy past and present.)

You are a pariah here and you know it. People detest you and you try to act like they are jealous.

no one is jealous of you Pilot. NO one is jealous of an internet fraud who lives to at cheap shots at people.

Tennis fan are you? Sorry my hometowns weather is not cooperating with you.

Tell you what if you ever come to visit the Tennis Hall of Fame, PM me.

I would be more than happy to meet you and we can see who is not what they say they are.

Oh by the way, like my wife's signature? Post #18? She did it just for you.

 

[mythtrav16]

Last year I wrote a story for the Halloween contest that was based around an evil creature in the guise of a sexy woman that went around a town seducing the men. Every sexual encounter she had resulted in her killing her partner. Later on in the story she uses her magic to posses an innocent young woman, and make her dance naked for all the men in the town, so they will all kill each other trying to claim her as their prize.

The story made it on to Lit, and is still here. For an erotic story, there is a fair bit of violence and killing in it and my descriptions of some of the deaths are fairly graphic, so I would say that you can get away with most things of this nature.

 

[lovecraft68]

Last year I wrote a story for the Halloween contest that was based around an evil creature in the guise of a sexy woman that went around a town seducing the men. Every sexual encounter she had resulted in her killing her partner. Later on in the story she uses her magic to posses an innocent young woman, and make her dance naked for all the men in the town, so they will all kill each other trying to claim her as their prize.

The story made it on to Lit, and is still here. For an erotic story, there is a fair bit of violence and killing in it and my descriptions of some of the deaths are fairly graphic, so I would say that you can get away with most things of this nature.

It may have slipped through because she was not human?

 

[mythtrav16]

It may have slipped through because she was not human?

Possibly. Although the woman who caused the fighting was 100% human, albeit under the influence of supernatural powers.

 

[sr71plt]

The thread's dancing around the bottom line of fearing what can happen more than what usually does happen in submissions. Overthinking it.

 

[Sputnik57]

The 'Hidden Chamber'; My story

Hi,

Those that were offended by my story will be glad to hear it's been 'pulled'.

I'm sorry if it offended anyone such as 'SoCalCynic- I thought as this was an erotic story site with a BDSM category, I naively thought that the sexual fantasy of an adult male realising his ultimate fantasy of being despatched by dominant women would be accepted.

I have since re-written the tale to give it a 'Happy ending' and it's now 'pending'. Hopefully it will be tame enough for the tastes of those who complained.

This is the only tale I've submitted where anyone loses their life- I'd certainly never have it happen to an unwilling female etc.

On the whole, I'm enjoying this site!

N.B. Now I'm beginning to understand what Selena Kitt was talking about!

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sadangel
Don't confuse BDSM with torture. They are not the same.

Humiliation can be a part of BDSM. It can be a part of torture. This does not make torture part of BDSM.

Correct. No matter how degrading or even flat out rough BDSM sex can be ( and let's not forget that women can be just as cruel to men here!) it is always consensual.

It is called submitting for a reason. It is not non consent, nor is it rape. There may be some reluctance, but that is part of the total surrender that is an important part of a BDSM relationship.

Whenever I see a post like the one above I know that this is a person who has no concept of BDSM beyond "whips and leather"

Sadism usually involves torture of one kind or another. S & M would usually involve mutually consensual activity, but sadism can involve an actual victim, who is not a willing participant. Most of the stories here do not, but that is not completely true to life.

I have a series of stories going about a woman and some other women who were abducted and raped and whipped and enslaved. They do not consent, but are helpless to do anything about it, at least so far. I think I'm sort of pushing the envelope on this one, because I had to tone down the anal rape at the end of the last part.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

I comment to the thread discussion. If it's LC I'm commenting too, that's just tough.

Here he's claiming he posted specifically to get me to comment. So, yap at him, not me.

Balls! You ignore the thread discussion and masturbate your wiener whilst throwing in a commercial for your latest antsy piece.

SoCalCynic

Snuff is usually the term for death during a sexual encounter. Lit has never accepted that (like under-18 sex or bestiality). There are sites that do.

Murder is OK - if part of the plot and devoid of sexual overtones. If it is not an oxymoron, Lit is a mainstream porn site. Necrophilia, castration etc will be rejected.

Ignore sr, he's out of the loop.

 

[sr71plt]

There she goes again.

 

[lovecraft68]

Balls! You ignore the thread discussion and masturbate your wiener whilst throwing in a commercial for your latest antsy piece.

SoCalCynic

Snuff is usually the term for death during a sexual encounter. Lit has never accepted that (like under-18 sex or bestiality). There are sites that do.

Murder is OK - if part of the plot and devoid of sexual overtones. If it is not an oxymoron, Lit is a mainstream porn site. Necrophilia, castration etc will be rejected.

Ignore sr, he's out of the loop.

Correct. Snuff is directly related to death during or just after sex. Lit is specifically a sex site so will not allow it. It can however be used in mainstream fiction because it is only part of a story not the main attraction.

Same for underage which is rampant in mainstream novels because the person is buying the book for other reasons whereas in erotica the sole purpose of underage is to get off on that fact. Same with flat out rape.

 

[lovecraft68]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sadangel
Don't confuse BDSM with torture. They are not the same.

Humiliation can be a part of BDSM. It can be a part of torture. This does not make torture part of BDSM.




Sadism usually involves torture of one kind or another. S & M would usually involve mutually consensual activity, but sadism can involve an actual victim, who is not a willing participant. Most of the stories here do not, but that is not completely true to life.

I have a series of stories going about a woman and some other women who were abducted and raped and whipped and enslaved. They do not consent, but are helpless to do anything about it, at least so far. I think I'm sort of pushing the envelope on this one, because I had to tone down the anal rape at the end of the last part.

But sadism in and of itself has a different meaning then when it is used in S&M. Remember with the stories you are dealing with here and through most of the "legit" BDSM world the rules are

"Safe, sane, and consensual."

I really wish the people here who claim to be "porn experts" would stop their damn posing and do some research into the lifestyle.

Go on over to the BDSM threads and read through them. Or pm someone like STella Omega who has experience and is usually good with giving advice.

I'd say PM me, but I used to charge for my lessons.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
Quote:
Originally Posted by sadangel
Don't confuse BDSM with torture. They are not the same.


Sadism usually involves torture of one kind or another. S & M would usually involve mutually consensual activity, but sadism can involve an actual victim, who is not a willing participant. Most of the stories here do not, but that is not completely true to life.

I have a series of stories going about a woman and some other women who were abducted and raped and whipped and enslaved. They do not consent, but are helpless to do anything about it, at least so far. I think I'm sort of pushing the envelope on this one, because I had to tone down the anal rape at the end of the last part.

But sadism in and of itself has a different meaning then when it is used in S&M. Remember with the stories you are dealing with here and through most of the "legit" BDSM world the rules are

"Safe, sane, and consensual."

I really wish the people here who claim to be "porn experts" would stop their damn posing and do some research into the lifestyle.

Go on over to the BDSM threads and read through them. Or pm someone like STella Omega who has experience and is usually good with giving advice.

I'd say PM me, but I used to charge for my lessons.

I realize most of the BDSM stories here are about consensual activities. I have written soinme myself about people whipping or spanking each other as part of sexual play. I also realize there are people who enjoy receiving pain or being humiliated and/or dominated, and they go to places where, for a price, people will service them. I also know S & M stands for Sadism and Masochism.

However, there are also persons who want to inflict pain or humiliation on unwilling victims, and get a sexual thrill from doing so. I have written stories about this kind of activity, and it they listed as BDSM. Usually, the abuse is more of a means to an end than an end in itself, but the perpetrators enjoy what they are doing.

Here is a link to the first of the series. It's classified as Non-consent, but shouldn't be: http://www.literotica.com/s/brendas-fate

Here is a link to another story that has been classified as BDSM and is NOT consensual: http://www.literotica.com/s/revenge-of-the-hotty

 

[manyeyedhydra]

Snuff is usually the term for death during a sexual encounter. Lit has never accepted that (like under-18 sex or bestiality). There are sites that do.

Murder is OK - if part of the plot and devoid of sexual overtones. If it is not an oxymoron, Lit is a mainstream porn site. Necrophilia, castration etc will be rejected.

Ignore sr, he's out of the loop.

Um, this is wrong, at least the way it's worded. There are plenty of stories in the Erotic Horror section where the protagonist is killed by a succubus or similar mythological creature, usually during or even through sex. (They're not all written by me either, before you ask )

I wouldn't class these as snuff stories even though they feature death during a sex act. Snuff, for me, implies a degree of realism. The PoV character is also important.

The problem stories are those featuring realistic violence inflicted by the main PoV character for the purposes of sexual gratification. Outside of that I think there's plenty of leeway.

 

[Darkniciad]

The simple fact is that this rule isn't set in stone, is open to interpretation, and there's only one way to know if your story is within bounds:

Submit it.

The more real to life the scene is and the more sexually charged it is, the larger your chance of rejection ( or, as we've seen here, rejection after the fact when reported by readers )

On the topic presented in the OP, there are numerous banned keywords, but the content they represent isn't necessarily banned. For an extreme example, the word "baby" and any compound form is banned as a keyword.

"Babysitter" will be rejected as a keyword, but there's nothing stopping you from writing a story about a babysitter, using the word in the title or description, etc.

"Babydoll" will be rejected as a keyword, but the garment is hardly restricted for use in a story.

The list of potential, but completely non-controversial topics covered by this keyword ban is large. The content represented by those words is allowed all the time.

 

[lovecraft68]

I suppose it doesn't matter as it's just my opinion, but seeing as this is predominantly a sex site, I wonder why we have these conversations. Why do people need to be dying at all? This is erotica not straight up fiction.

It's supposed to be good old fashioned clean dirty fun. Yet we have a snuff story in this thread and in the AH there is a how to kill a character thread.

Past that surf the story ideas section and better than half of them all turn into rape and non consent ideas.

There had been people complaining recently that lit does not allow copyrighted characters to be raped or hurt in non consensual situations. Why does it have to be so?

What's wrong with writing about Catwoman licking Bat Girl's pussy? No it has to be Batgirl being tied up and tortured first.

This is the material that dinks who want to link porn to other crimes use when they get on their moral high horse. Now that I have seen the extent of the things people whine about not being able to do here I am starting to think they are not as off target as I previously thought.

I mean whatever happened to just plain sex?

 

[manyeyedhydra]

*snip* tedious self righteous whine *snip*

Fantasies are fantasies, i.e. not reality. If it involves nobody else but consenting adults, what they get up to in the privacy of their own skulls is their business. Not mine. And definitely not yours.

You don't have any right to judge, so STFU.

 

[lovecraft68]

Fantasies are fantasies, i.e. not reality. If it involves nobody else but consenting adults, what they get up to in the privacy of their own skulls is their business. Not mine. And definitely not yours.

You don't have any right to judge, so STFU.

Erotica is fantasy. Death and violence is reality and I think we get enough of it in the news on a daily basis.

By the way why abbreviate? Show your true lack of class and just say it. I love how upset people get when a post that starts with "in my opinion" gets someone all upset.

That is usually a sign of hitting a nerve. Go get off to some war footage plenty of death and torture there. Maybe you can get some plot bunnies from it.

 

[manyeyedhydra]

Erotica is fantasy. Death and violence is reality and I think we get enough of it in the news on a daily basis.

Death and violence is also fantasy. Why do you think action movies are so popular, or FPS video games?

You even know this. Unless the person recommending Lumley's Necroscope series a while back was a different person. That makes you either a hypocrite or another sad little internet troll whose life is so inadequate they feel they have waste everyone else's with the shite they spew.

Now scurry off and find another dark bridge to lurk under.

 

[sr71plt]

I wouldn't class these as snuff stories even though they feature death during a sex act. Snuff, for me, implies a degree of realism. The PoV character is also important.

I agree with this.

 

[Sputnik57]

Hi, thanks for discussing my story...

Thanks to one and all for answering my questions as the author of the offending story!

I'm sorry if I interrupted anyone in their self-righteous conversation.

Once again; can someone who has the time between spouting off about the wrongs and rights of the terminology used, please let me know why the story was allowed in the first place if the death of the main character as part of his fantasy, is not allowed?

I understand now that 'snuff' is taboo on this site as is bestiality and under 18's- this is fair enough, but I was not to know that as a newbie to this site.

There are no 'drop down' boxes when you enter categories and these are left to the person sending the story. Puunctuation was the only reason given when I had a refusal for the story, so presumably the editors actually read it!

I shall ensure no-one comes anywhere death in my future submissions, even if this is what they as a character desire. If people do not want true BDSM, may I suggest that those who complained stick to a site more in keeping with Disney or the Waltons?; they would remain un-offended then! (Please avoid a tale called 'Bambi' though - it involves snuff!)

 

[sr71plt]

Once again; can someone who has the time between spouting off about the wrongs and rights of the terminology used, please let me know why the story was allowed in the first place if the death of the main character as part of his fantasy, is not allowed?

Because there's not enough editorial power to read every word of every story passed through every day of every month of every year.

There are no 'drop down' boxes when you enter categories and these are left to the person sending the story.

Not sure what this has to do with anything in this discussion. Can you elaborate? And, no, the editors don't just leave the category to the author; they can and sometimes do put the story in a different category.

Puunctuation was the only reason given when I had a refusal for the story, so presumably the editors actually read it!

A. No it doesn't mean editors actually read it. The program bot has an algorithm for checking certain typical punctuation mistakes. No, neither I nor anyone else outside the site administrations knows what this is or how it works. It's not comprehensive, though, which is why rejections are phrased as a "did you?" questions. Often the answer is just a "no I did not" and if the story is refiled with that in the notes box and without a chip on one's shoulder, the story often gets passed as originally written.

B. Are you now saying that your story was rejected on the basis of punctuation? That's an entirely different kettle of fish than anything you've brought to the table on either of the threads you discussed this on.

Much of the problem across the forum in discussing this story with you is that you haven't been clear on what the problem is.

I shall ensure no-one comes anywhere death in my future submissions, even if this is what they as a character desire. If people do not want true BDSM, may I suggest that those who complained stick to a site more in keeping with Disney or the Waltons?; they would remain un-offended then! (Please avoid a tale called 'Bambi' though - it involves snuff!)

There is heavy-duty adult content stuff on this Web site--and this thread has identified some of it. You are off base in suggesting that your story has been rejected because it is too adult for us. It apparently is "too" something, but you haven't made clear what that something is.

As far as people being terminated, examples have abounded here on where that hasn't been a problem. Again, the problem seems to be in finding out what you're talking about.

In addition, as I recall, you were advised you probably should discuss this directly with the site editor and were given directions on how to do this. As far as I can see you haven't done this. Yammering sketchily at the forum only isn't going to get you anywhere. PM Laurel and become clear on what has happened and why.

 

[LettersFromTatyana]

*****

 

[lovecraft68]

Thanks to one and all for answering my questions as the author of the offending story!

I'm sorry if I interrupted anyone in their self-righteous conversation.

Once again; can someone who has the time between spouting off about the wrongs and rights of the terminology used, please let me know why the story was allowed in the first place if the death of the main character as part of his fantasy, is not allowed?

I understand now that 'snuff' is taboo on this site as is bestiality and under 18's- this is fair enough, but I was not to know that as a newbie to this site.

There are no 'drop down' boxes when you enter categories and these are left to the person sending the story. Puunctuation was the only reason given when I had a refusal for the story, so presumably the editors actually read it!

I shall ensure no-one comes anywhere death in my future submissions, even if this is what they as a character desire. If people do not want true BDSM, may I suggest that those who complained stick to a site more in keeping with Disney or the Waltons?; they would remain un-offended then! (Please avoid a tale called 'Bambi' though - it involves snuff!)

For the record "sputnik" in case it was not covered here, if you do not want to change your story and enjoy writing these types of stories, lit is not the only option there are sites that will accept it.

Better yet, is since they accept it, people who are looking for them go there and you may get some positive responses to your work.

 

[lovecraft68]

Death and violence is also fantasy. Why do you think action movies are so popular, or FPS video games?

You even know this. Unless the person recommending Lumley's Necroscope series a while back was a different person. That makes you either a hypocrite or another sad little internet troll whose life is so inadequate they feel they have waste everyone else's with the shite they spew.

Now scurry off and find another dark bridge to lurk under.

My comment was simply I was surprised at the amount of violence found on a sex site. Pure and simple. I do not read a lot of erotica and lit is the first site I checked out.

I expected violence in the non human category as it is very fitting "Necroscope" would have done well here as the vampires there were quite the BDSM perverts.

I did not expect a lot of killing, snuff or otherwise, in the erotic tales. For myself I am a bit of a purist and do not mix my vices.

example; I am a huge comic book fan even owned a store. I am also a fan of erotica, yet have no desire to see Wonder woman having sex.

I love horror and violence but not with my sex. Again these are my tastes and again I started the comment with IMO. No one else need have that opinion, but it is my right to express it.

And I can't lurk under the bridge, you've already claimed that spot, as you lurk the forums and pop out once in a while to spout your "shite" before going back into hiding.