Story Discussion Varian, Main Queue 10-02-05

[Boxlicker101]

Although it didn't lead me to conclude they were gay, I'm not sure what purpose Drake and Roland kissing, or otherwise interacting, serves. If nothing else, it detracts from the perception that they are pleasing her on her wedding night. Even if she happens to be turned on by their kiss, I have a hard time imagining they did it for her.

In spite of my critical review, I still think the story has much promise- after all, this is a rough, first draft. The subtleties involved with n/c are to me what make it such an interesting topic. That's also, imo, what makes it so difficult.

I don't think anybody would perceive of them as "pleasing her on her wedding night". They are abusing her and, although she did climax from the oral sex, that's because of her basic, although suppressed sensuality and it was done without her consent. A man might kiss his son and a French general might kiss an honored male soldier on the cheek and a Mafia don might kiss a man just before having him killed, but otherwise, straight men do not kiss other men, especially with their tongues.

I'm not expressing dislike for the story, just for the two scoundrels involved. It is very promising and could be extremely good, whatever direction it takes.

 

[Varian P]

Sorry, Boxlicker and Penny, for my silence the last few days--I've been out of town. But it's fun to see the discussion has continued in my absence!

As I said before, I think they are essentially gay men who decided to get a sexual female toy to share, and now they have one, unless Jenny does something about it.

Although it didn't lead me to conclude they were gay, I'm not sure what purpose Drake and Roland kissing, or otherwise interacting, serves. If nothing else, it detracts from the perception that they are pleasing her on her wedding night. Even if she happens to be turned on by their kiss, I have a hard time imagining they did it for her.

I don't think anybody would perceive of them as "pleasing her on her wedding night"... A man might kiss his son and a French general might kiss an honored male soldier on the cheek and a Mafia don might kiss a man just before having him killed, but otherwise, straight men do not kiss other men, especially with their tongues.

Ah, this conversation gets at one of my other very favorite topics for exploration--the beloved straight/gay dichotomy.

As with many other aspects of the story--particularly the degree of coercion and the way in which it, and Jenny's responses are portrayed--I certainly need to develop the nuances of Drake and Roland's relationship and interactions. And I think I overstated, earlier, when I said that everything done on the wedding night is purely for Jenny's benefit. I do mean for her to be the center of the men's attention, but you're right, Penny, that the kiss isn't just for her. That she's aroused by it, though, is important do Drake, and important to the story. All subtleties I need to work on as I revise, as you say.

As for whether the men--and particularly Drake--are straight or gay, I suppose I'd say they're neither. They both enjoy sexual experiences with people of both sexes. They share an erotically charged friendship, but aren't in love or life partners. Drake genuinely loves Jenny, and takes his marriage to her seriously. It's typical of my stories that Drake & Rols don't neatly fit into the commonly accepted notion of a rigid hetero/homo dichotomy. Among other things, I'll be working to revise to convey their relationship more effectively.

 

[wishfulthinking]

Hi Varian,

1) How do you find the dialogue? I want it to be saucy and playful, but would like it to be plausibly real, as well.

A bit too cruel and cold to pull off playful in my view. I think maybe you could soften it at some points, and thereby create more confusion/conflict with the wife.

2) From what's here, does it seem obvious that Drake and Roland planned this ahead of time? Or do I inadvertently give the impression that Roland just stumbled upon the bride & groom, and what follows is spontaneous?

Yeah, there is nothing to suggest it was an accident or spontaneous.

3) What is your impression, at the point of the break, of the level of coercion in the scene? Do Drake and Roland come off as rapists, or do you see Jenny reluctantly giving in to something she actually wants?

It was too much too soon for me. I would like to know a bit more about the courtship, and their relationship during it and petting and stuff.

In terms of coercion - on the high end of the scale, because her humiliation and embarassment seem greater than her arousal throughout. There seems no change or not enough "gee, I like what they are doing even if it goes against all my beliefs and the respect I have for myself and wanting my first time to be special". I guess what I mean is that they have seduced her body, but not her mind, and for me this leans towards the rape end of the scale.

I would have liked it more if the friend only watched the first time or was only invited on later days. Drake gets no brownie points for this, and comes across as a prick who seeks to exploit her rather than someone wanting to explore her sexuality for her sake.

Sorry if this seems harsh, but I think you have the elements there, just perhaps a change of focus or direction

 

[wishfulthinking]

I've had a bit more of a think (scary stuff)

(a)
I think the point of your story to turn a virgin into a 'slut'?

In terms of slut and the many varied meanings attributed to it, I going with 2 here:

1. numerous partners
2. lover of sex [which is more than a good orgasm ]

The path you are headed down is under number 1, when I think you want 2 or even both.

(b)
You have skipped the courtship completely, as well as character development. I'm not saying I want an essay, but if you want to be true to her character, I gotta at least know what her parents think of her fiance and stuff.

(c)
Why did he marry her? He sounds like a prick enough that he would have got engaged and demanded sex before the wedding and probably raped her. if she refused, and possibly giving her no choice but to marry him in terms of her faith. But his questions about how experienced she was means it wasn't because he wanted an ignorant virgin. And there is no build up to suggest anything else.

I would have liked to have seen that he was a member of her church - a sort of wolf in sheeps clothing. At least that way I can understand why she would marry someone so quickly that she doesn't know and overcome that problem.

Good luck

 

[Boxlicker101]

I've had a bit more of a think (scary stuff)

(a)
I think the point of your story to turn a virgin into a 'slut'?

In terms of slut and the many varied meanings attributed to it, I going with 2 here:

1. numerous partners
2. lover of sex [which is more than a good orgasm ]

The path you are headed down is under number 1, when I think you want 2 or even both.

(b)
You have skipped the courtship completely, as well as character development. I'm not saying I want an essay, but if you want to be true to her character, I gotta at least know what her parents think of her fiance and stuff.

(c)
Why did he marry her? He sounds like a prick enough that he would have got engaged and demanded sex before the wedding and probably raped her. if she refused, and possibly giving her no choice but to marry him in terms of her faith. But his questions about how experienced she was means it wasn't because he wanted an ignorant virgin. And there is no build up to suggest anything else.

I would have liked to have seen that he was a member of her church - a sort of wolf in sheeps clothing. At least that way I can understand why she would marry someone so quickly that she doesn't know and overcome that problem.

Good luck

I think the intention of the two men is to turn Jenny into a slut, but that is using the second definition, a lover of sex. The fact that there are two men simultaneously would not preclude this. This is the first chapter, and they could be intending to invite more men to join them, and turn her into the first kind of slut also, but that seems less likely. It could happen, though.

The courtship was short but it wasn't completely skipped. It could have been expanded on but those details would have made the story longer but not really advanced it. Showing that Drake was a lover of certain kinds of music or the works of certain playwrights would have aided in establishing his character, but they would have been redundant. The most important facets of his character are established during the wedding night.

He married her because he wanted a woman who was sensuous but inexperienced. I believe he was somehow aware of her sensuousness and that she was suppressing it, although I don't know how he would have known that. He didn't want to force himself on her because that would have scared her off, like it did to another man. If he had tried to rape her, he would have gotten into big trouble with the law.

He is not a member of her church because he rejects the teachings of her church. He could have attended church with her during the courtship, which would have been part of his plan, but he wouldn't have gone there before that.

She married him because she was so enamoured of the idea of marriage, and happily ever after, etc. and she allowed herself to be rushed into it because of his charm and good looks and other qualities that are described or hinted at.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Hey Varian! It's good to see you back.

I wish I could have liked this piece more, but it didn't work for me.

I see what you're doing here, and it's a clever and sexy idea, but you know, Jenny just doesn't work for me at all. She's not real and I don't believe in her, and so I really don't care what happens to her. Once Roland appeared and I saw what the story was about, I quickly lost interest.

I mean, after all this intro and background, what do we really know about Jenny? Not much, except that she's a prude who doesn't want to mess around before marriage. Why is she like this? Is she afraid of sin? Is she afraid of men? Of pleasure? Does she ever doubt her decision? Does she have any curiosity as to what she's missing? Any passion? Is she at all conflicted about her decision? No. It's not explained, it's just a given, because she's not a person. She's a type, a prop, a walking pussy some guys are going to mess around with.

I got the feeling that you as author didn't much care about her either, only the things the men were going to do to her, and I think that was a big mistake. I really think that for this story to be more than just a suck-&-fuck epic, you're going to have to get to know Jenny more yourself, and portray her in a way that makes her real and more believable.

Is she in love with Drake? How do we know? She apparenlty married him because of her age and because he's available and "handsome." Is she r4eally that shallow?

What does she hope for from this marriage? Her dreams of sex with him consist of her imagining herself lying there entirely passive while he does unspecified things to her. Is that her idea of married love? Her behavior is the car is just very unreal and hard to swallow. Anyone that innocent has some major personality problem. You tell us she's happy at the wedding, but I don't believe it. Her entire emotional repetoire seems to be limited to various varieties of shock and surprise at Drake's behavior. This is not a person, V. This is a fuck-dummy from Literotica central casting: a prop with tits and pussy.

As far as I could tell, the story was well told. The mechanics and dialogue were okay, but the characters just had no life or depth, so what's the point?

Sorry, Varian. Not my cup of tea, I guess.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Hey Varian! It's good to see you back.

I wish I could have liked this piece more, but it didn't work for me.

I see what you're doing here, and it's a clever and sexy idea, but you know, Jenny just doesn't work for me at all. She's not real and I don't believe in her, and so I really don't care what happens to her. Once Roland appeared and I saw what the story was about, I quickly lost interest.

I mean, after all this intro and background, what do we really know about Jenny? Not much, except that she's a prude who doesn't want to mess around before marriage. Why is she like this? Is she afraid of sin? Is she afraid of men? Of pleasure? Does she ever doubt her decision? Does she have any curiosity as to what she's missing? Any passion? Is she at all conflicted about her decision? No. It's not explained, it's just a given, because she's not a person. She's a type, a prop, a walking pussy some guys are going to mess around with.

I got the feeling that you as author didn't much care about her either, only the things the men were going to do to her, and I think that was a big mistake. I really think that for this story to be more than just a suck-&-fuck epic, you're going to have to get to know Jenny more yourself, and portray her in a way that makes her real and more believable.

Is she in love with Drake? How do we know? She apparenlty married him because of her age and because he's available and "handsome." Is she r4eally that shallow?

What does she hope for from this marriage? Her dreams of sex with him consist of her imagining herself lying there entirely passive while he does unspecified things to her. Is that her idea of married love? Her behavior is the car is just very unreal and hard to swallow. Anyone that innocent has some major personality problem. You tell us she's happy at the wedding, but I don't believe it. Her entire emotional repetoire seems to be limited to various varieties of shock and surprise at Drake's behavior. This is not a person, V. This is a fuck-dummy from Literotica central casting: a prop with tits and pussy.

As far as I could tell, the story was well told. The mechanics and dialogue were okay, but the characters just had no life or depth, so what's the point?

Sorry, Varian. Not my cup of tea, I guess.

I don't think she was afraid of men or of pleasure because she went off for a weekend of fun at Vail. It was obvious to me that she was vehemently opposed to premarital or extramarital sex because of the indoctrination of her church. Incidentally, in many parts of the US, at least, virginity until marriage would have been the norm. A 25 year old virgin being married for the first time would have been unusual, not because of her virginity but because of her age. Most women married earlier than that, which was, I suppose, one of the reasons for her marrying when the opportunity arose.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I don't think she was afraid of men or of pleasure because she went off for a weekend of fun at Vail. It was obvious to me that she was vehemently opposed to premarital or extramarital sex because of the indoctrination of her church.

Yeah, but that's a cop out. That doesn't tell us anything about her. It's like saying she was a murderer because of her upbringing, or an alcoholic because she came from a broken home. Those aren't explanations, they're cliches.

Was she a holy roller? Was she devoted to Jesus? Was she a sexual timebomb waiting to go off? Did the thought of sex tempt her, or nauseate her, or what? Was she just dead below the waist?

I mean, who is this woman that I should care about her or what happens to her?

It makes me think of the dictum that all interesting characters are conflicted inside, and the story is the external manifestation of their internal conflict and their attempt to resolve it.

I know that most pornsters don't give two figs about this, and in my opinion that's why we have so many big-titted cardboard cutouts running around fucking each other. It's also why most porn is so deadly dull and predictable: it's about people's gonads, not the people themselves.

I know Varian's writing and it's very good. Maybe he did just want to tell a quick fuck-tale and leave character out of this, in which case just ignore everything I've said. But if he intended for this to be something more - and the care he shows in his writing makes me think he does - then he's going to have to put some meat into Jenny, because right now she's just an inflatable fuck-doll: a pair of tits and a few cliches.

 

[Penelope Street]

Varian said up front this was a quickly written first draft and her later comments, I think, are clear enough regarding her intent for the final product.

I am unsure about most pornsters not giving two figs about character. Lack of characterization is my biggest complaint regarding so-called erotic films. That smut films continue to be made in this manner suggestes that a significant portion of viewers want to see just that. I was expecting much the same mentality regarding stories, yet most responders at Lit do appear to appreciate well-developed characters. I say 'responder' instead of 'reader' because it's clear enough that upwards of 95% of those who open a story never even vote, much less provide feedback. If it is true that the vast majority of readers do not care about characterization, it's the same vast majority does not care enough to make their opinions known.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Yeah, but that's a cop out. That doesn't tell us anything about her. It's like saying she was a murderer because of her upbringing, or an alcoholic because she came from a broken home. Those aren't explanations, they're cliches.

Was she a holy roller? Was she devoted to Jesus? Was she a sexual timebomb waiting to go off? Did the thought of sex tempt her, or nauseate her, or what? Was she just dead below the waist?

I mean, who is this woman that I should care about her or what happens to her?

It makes me think of the dictum that all interesting characters are conflicted inside, and the story is the external manifestation of their internal conflict and their attempt to resolve it.

I know that most pornsters don't give two figs about this, and in my opinion that's why we have so many big-titted cardboard cutouts running around fucking each other. It's also why most porn is so deadly dull and predictable: it's about people's gonads, not the people themselves.

I know Varian's writing and it's very good. Maybe he did just want to tell a quick fuck-tale and leave character out of this, in which case just ignore everything I've said. But if he intended for this to be something more - and the care he shows in his writing makes me think he does - then he's going to have to put some meat into Jenny, because right now she's just an inflatable fuck-doll: a pair of tits and a few cliches.

Hi, Doc. I know you are aware that most of my stories are of simple-minded sucking and fucking and eating pussy, because that's what I like to write. I usually make no real effort to develop any plot or much characterization, preferring to write about the sex in graphic detail. Even so, I can appreciate stories where there is a plot and characters are developed, and this is one such story, although it is still a work in progress. We don't know exactly which direction the story will take.

Jenny is obviously a member of a fundamentalist Christian church; the actual denomination is not important. They are strongly opposed to non-marital sex. She is probably a lifelong member, at least her adult life and, as a result, has suppressed her natural sensuality. Her sensuality is actually quite strong and this is established by her answers to the questions asked in the limo, by her responses to Drake's kisses and caresses and by the fact that, although shocked and distressed by the intrusion of Roland on her wedding night, she climaxes from his eating her pussy. After that, she is scandalized but somewhat aroused again by the sight of the two men kissing.

Perhaps her character can be fleshed out a bit, her favorite color, where she went to school, whether or not she had a dog as a child, etc. Personally, I think of such details as padding, unless they advance the story.

As for the two men, so far I consider them to be reprehensible cads, although I may change my mind about them. I described them as gay but Varian says they are neither gay nor straight. I can accept they are bi but, on a scale of one to 100 with one being absolutely gay and 100 being absolutely straight, I would put them at about 40.

 

[Varian P]

Hi, Wishfulthinking--thanks so much for offering your critique.

1) How do you find the dialogue? I want it to be saucy and playful, but would like it to be plausibly real, as well.
A bit too cruel and cold to pull off playful in my view. I think maybe you could soften it at some points, and thereby create more confusion/conflict with the wife.

Thanks--I'm on it!

2) From what's here, does it seem obvious that Drake and Roland planned this ahead of time? Or do I inadvertently give the impression that Roland just stumbled upon the bride & groom, and what follows is spontaneous?

Yeah, there is nothing to suggest it was an accident or spontaneous.

Whew--I'm relieved to still be hanging on to a favorable consensus on this small point.

3) What is your impression, at the point of the break, of the level of coercion in the scene? Do Drake and Roland come off as rapists, or do you see Jenny reluctantly giving in to something she actually wants?

It was too much too soon for me. I would like to know a bit more about the courtship, and their relationship during it and petting and stuff.

Thanks--you're echoing what others have said, which is quite helpful. I am already at work adding a bit of texture to the courtship of Jenny & Drake, though I doubt I'll be taking them to second or third base. The main erotic element in this story, for me, is the drastic leap from chaste innocence to what Drake and Rolland have in store for Jenny, and to have Drake fondling her pre-wedding would undermine that.

In terms of coercion - on the high end of the scale, because her humiliation and embarassment seem greater than her arousal throughout. There seems no change or not enough "gee, I like what they are doing even if it goes against all my beliefs and the respect I have for myself and wanting my first time to be special". I guess what I mean is that they have seduced her body, but not her mind, and for me this leans towards the rape end of the scale.

I'm with you on this--I am working on slowing down the pace of what happens on the wedding night, and giving Jenny's mind a chance to catch up with her body.

I would have liked it more if the friend only watched the first time or was only invited on later days. Drake gets no brownie points for this, and comes across as a prick who seeks to exploit her rather than someone wanting to explore her sexuality for her sake.

This is very helpful to know. Again, I'm deliberately avoiding the slow progression, but I do hope to help Drake get a couple of those brownie points back by showing that there's a suppresed little part of Jenny that's dying for something just like this to happen.

Sorry if this seems harsh, but I think you have the elements there, just perhaps a change of focus or direction

Thanks--your feedback's very helpful.

-Varian

 

[Varian P]

I've had a bit more of a think (scary stuff)

(a)
I think the point of your story to turn a virgin into a 'slut'?

In terms of slut and the many varied meanings attributed to it, I going with 2 here:

1. numerous partners
2. lover of sex [which is more than a good orgasm ]

The path you are headed down is under number 1, when I think you want 2 or even both.

The point of the story...hmmm. I suppose I see the point of the story not so much as turning a person from one thing into something else, but rather to play with the (not at all original) idea that people often fall into a mode of existence that doesn't fit with their 'true' natures. Drake is less about turning Jenny into a slut, in both senses mentioned above, than he is about rather forcibly demonstrating that he's more than ok with that fact that somewhere under a few thick layers of repression, she's that way already.

Of course, there's no way to discern that from the draft/segment of the story I posted for critique--the background is insuffiently developed, as you and others have pointed out, and the second half, where some of this gets explored further, was cut off for the sake of brevity.

(b)
You have skipped the courtship completely, as well as character development. I'm not saying I want an essay, but if you want to be true to her character, I gotta at least know what her parents think of her fiance and stuff.

I do think I need to develop a few key details of the pre-wedding relationship, as you say. I did try to allude to the attitude of Jenny's parents, though, in the mention that her family has boycotted the wedding. It was my perhaps overly subtle attempt to foreshadow, a bit, that Jenny's already putting Drake and herself ahead of the things that have, in the past, been the guiding forces in her life--her family and the church (eg marrying someone who's forthrightly told her he doesn't share her faith).

(c)
Why did he marry her? He sounds like a prick enough that he would have got engaged and demanded sex before the wedding and probably raped her. if she refused, and possibly giving her no choice but to marry him in terms of her faith. But his questions about how experienced she was means it wasn't because he wanted an ignorant virgin. And there is no build up to suggest anything else.

No, no, Drake's more the devious cad type, not the date rape type. It's so much more deliciously evil to cruelly violate one's very own blushing bride than to just pin one's date down in the back of the car, don't you think?

I don't want to delve into Drake's thoughts in the story, but I will attempt to show, through a little dialogue I have planned, that Drake was rather startled to fall for such an ingenue as Jenny, and that, in fact, the one thing which worried him about their future happiness was a fear that she might be as prim and proper as she thinks she's supposed to be. But, happily, he gleaned a clue or two from her that there was a bit more percolating under her cool surface.

I would have liked to have seen that he was a member of her church - a sort of wolf in sheeps clothing. At least that way I can understand why she would marry someone so quickly that she doesn't know and overcome that problem.
Good luck

An interesting suggestion. I agree that I would do well to show why she (and he, for that matter) would plunge into marriage so quickly. And I need to develop his character a bit more, because I don't intend that he's deliberately out seeking a Jenny type just to get up to his wicked prank. The naughtiness of the wedding night is a response specifically to who he thinks Jenny is--clearly it's up to me to make this come through.

Thanks for your further thoughts!

-Varian

 

[Varian P]

Hey Varian! It's good to see you back.

Hey Dr. M.--thank you for the welcome, and for the honest critique.

I see what you're doing here, and it's a clever and sexy idea, but you know, Jenny just doesn't work for me at all. She's not real and I don't believe in her, and so I really don't care what happens to her. Once Roland appeared and I saw what the story was about, I quickly lost interest.

I appreciate knowing this--you've driven home what others have said with regard to the lack of texture and credibility to Jenny's character. It's good to know, though, that you feel the idea has potential.

I mean, after all this intro and background, what do we really know about Jenny? Not much, except that she's a prude who doesn't want to mess around before marriage. Why is she like this? Is she afraid of sin? Is she afraid of men? Of pleasure? Does she ever doubt her decision? Does she have any curiosity as to what she's missing? Any passion? Is she at all conflicted about her decision? No. It's not explained, it's just a given, because she's not a person. She's a type, a prop, a walking pussy some guys are going to mess around with.

This was something of an experiment for me--an experiment which seems to have failed--wherein I attempted to get at Jenny's character more through her narrative voice than exposition/internal monologue. But I can't argue (mainly because I'm pretty much in agreement) that as the story is written so far, she's pretty much a blank slate. Or a lump of barbie-shaped porn clay.

I got the feeling that you as author didn't much care about her either, only the things the men were going to do to her, and I think that was a big mistake. I really think that for this story to be more than just a suck-&-fuck epic, you're going to have to get to know Jenny more yourself, and portray her in a way that makes her real and more believable.

I think you're right, and thanks to you and the others who've read & critiqued this story, I've had a great opportunity to think through and write out much of what I'd been working with on a more intuitive level. And I've already drafted a detailed fantasy/masturbation segment for our soon to be multi-dimensional heroine.

Is she in love with Drake? How do we know? She apparenlty married him because of her age and because he's available and "handsome." Is she r4eally that shallow?

Again, if you'll indulge me, I'll use this opportunity to think 'out loud.' She's very much in love with Drake, though she has a rather immature understanding of her own feelings. While she isn't desperate or superficial, in a way she is kind of falling into marriage because it's what she's 'supposed to do.' This is a girl who definitely shies away from critical self-reflection, as will be shown in the revised version of the story. But one way in which it will be demonstrated that she loves her man is that he's the only one who's gotten her all hot and bothered.

What does she hope for from this marriage? Her dreams of sex with him consist of her imagining herself lying there entirely passive while he does unspecified things to her. Is that her idea of married love?

Thanks for these good, concrete questions--I think I'm managing to cover this better in my rewrite.

Her behavior is the car is just very unreal and hard to swallow. Anyone that innocent has some major personality problem.

Hmmmm. You're certainly not the only one to react this way to the limo scene, but I confess I'm a bit perplexed. I tried to write that scene in such a way that she would come across, not as ridiculously naive, but as taken aback by a startling 180 in the behaviour of the man she married a couple hours earlier. She's known Drake for a number of weeks, and he's behaved the entire time with perfect decorous reserve. Then, the first moment he has her alone after they're wed, he turns total perv on her. It seems reasonable to be that she'd be somewhat speechless. In my mind she's suddenly seeing a side of her husband she hadn't (consciously) guessed was there at all, and it's challenging her notion of her marriage almost before it's underway.

Does that make sense? I guess it doesn't matter how much I rationalize her reaction, if, in reading, it comes off as silly.

You tell us she's happy at the wedding, but I don't believe it. Her entire emotional repetoire seems to be limited to various varieties of shock and surprise at Drake's behavior. This is not a person, V. This is a fuck-dummy from Literotica central casting: a prop with tits and pussy.

Again, it's really helpful, knowing this is your reaction to her. I do think I'm getting her a bit filled out as I rewrite.

As far as I could tell, the story was well told. The mechanics and dialogue were okay, but the characters just had no life or depth, so what's the point?

Sorry, Varian. Not my cup of tea, I guess.

Quite alright--I really do appreciate you taking the time to write with your reactions. Very helpful, Dr. M.

-Varian

 

[wishfulthinking]

Perhaps her character can be fleshed out a bit, her favorite color, where she went to school, whether or not she had a dog as a child, etc. Personally, I think of such details as padding, unless they advance the story.

I agree None of these things tell me what makes her tick.

 

[CharleyH]

I see a bunch of odd threads, so bump.

 

[Pure]

Salute:

Good bump, Charley

I've been on a holiday from reading most erotica, asided from some submissions here, so I'm undoubtedly the last to know about Varian's fine series "Changed Girl," which I was reading today. It has been garnering top ratings for a year now, recognized with the "E" quite often, etc.

here is a url
for ch 1 of 11 currently posted


http://english.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=157669

The story, as I'm sure is true about V's others, contains masterful mindfucking. Varian writes with all the graphic detail beloved of us pornerotica connoiseurs, but most exceptionally, along with a few others here has a fine grasp of the psychology of sex, dominance, perversion, etc.


It's great to have Varian here among this SDC group of fine authors.