Stupid (but sincere) Questions about the USA

[monoblanco]

Yeeeeep. Trash, I tell you. Utter trash.

Uh oh! My sincerest apologies!!!

I had no intention of making anyone feel like trash. Even in a tongue-in-cheek sense...

Perhaps I could make amends by coming over to cook a reasonably portioned, multi-course meal complete with to go containers, should they be necessary .

 

[BiBunny]

Uh oh! My sincerest apologies!!!

I had no intention of making anyone feel like trash. Even in a tongue-in-cheek sense...

You totally didn't! I'll cop to it even under normal circumstances.

Perhaps I could make amends by coming over to cook a reasonably portioned, multi-course meal complete with to go containers, should they be necessary .

I would be more than up for that, however.

(I despise cooking with a flaming passion.)

 

[IrisAlthea]

I read about the Supreme Court ruling about same-sex marriage and as we talked about it at breakfast the question came up about how this will change things for individuals throughout the US.
Can this still be handled differently in different states?
Can insurance companies for example oe other companies and organizations still handle this differently based on their views?

 

[Primalex]

I read about the Supreme Court ruling about same-sex marriage and as we talked about it at breakfast the question came up about how this will change things for individuals throughout the US.

I'll believe it when a couple in Mississippi gets married and makes it back to their car alive.

Can this still be handled differently in different states?

That's a bit like:"Can my kids prevent that they eat the spinach?"

Depends on how much trouble they want to make and how much punishment they are willing to endure. But it's unlikely that they will want to spend the rest of the week in their room.

Okay, to explain it a bit better:

Little Rock Nine

The US supreme court said the black kids are allowed to go to the white-only school.
So the governor put the National Guard in front of the school to prevent this.
So the president sent the 101st Airborne Division of the United States Army there.

In the end, no state can afford to ignore the Supreme Court, because then the whole system would collapse. If one state doesn't listen, why would all the others?

Can insurance companies for example oe other companies and organizations still handle this differently based on their views?

Yes. Constitutional rights actually only bind the sovereignty as their purpose is to limit the government. It requires a specific law to bind citizens (and their organizations). That's why you still will be able to deny delivery of a wedding cake to a homosexual couple.

 

[IrisAlthea]

I'll believe it when a couple in Mississippi gets married and makes it back to their car alive.



That's a bit like:"Can my kids prevent that they eat the spinach?"

Depends on how much trouble they want to make and how much punishment they are willing to endure. But it's unlikely that they will want to spend the rest of the week in their room.




Yes. Constitutional rights actually only bind the sovereignty as their purpose is to limit the government. It requires a specific law to bind citizens (and their organizations). That's why you still will be able to deny delivery of a wedding cake to a homosexual couple.

I thought it might work something like that.

Your last paragraph explains the reasoning behind some things I've been wondering about.
Thank you!

 

[LWulf]

...That's why you still will be able to deny delivery of a wedding cake to a homosexual couple.

Actually, this part is in error. That's how it was 40+ years ago, but the 60's brought a law into change that service can't be denied based on sex, color or creed (and sexual orientation, etc etc etc).

Now, that said, a store would be foolish to outright state "I won't serve you because you're 'bibbity bobbity boo'. To work around in the system, they can lie and say "we are too busy to make this cake for you" or they could screw up the order. However, that runs risk of ruining their reputation and only will do that if they feel they are established with other like-minded locals who will continue to give them business.

There is another tactic that stores use, but this would run afoul with your cake maker example. It involves giving service but limiting service to the bare minimum. An example of such is when I was in Key West once and went into a bar. Two guys walked in, sat at a table and did something to clue others in that they were a gay couple. The bartender themself came out from behind the bar, and asked what they wanted to drink. They ordered two beers which the bartender smiled and got their beers and brought them back and gave to them.
Then the bartender said "there, we have given you service which is your right. Drink up then get the hell out of here. You're on the wrong side of town."
(Key West is divided into a "gay" section and a "straight section" (at least it was when I was there 20 years ago)).

I might point out the "reputation" angle works for many different reasons and I suspect this is the reason that many people experience "poor service" in America. I can account for at least three times this has been done to me (or perhaps it is just that unless you walk in with a sawed off shot gun attitude, people just try to "get away" with as much as they can).

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[BiBunny]

Actually, this part is in error. That's how it was 40+ years ago, but the 60's brought a law into change that service can't be denied based on sex, color or creed (and sexual orientation, etc etc etc).

Now, that said, a store would be foolish to outright state "I won't serve you because you're 'bibbity bobbity boo'. To work around in the system, they can lie and say "we are too busy to make this cake for you" or they could screw up the order. However, that runs risk of ruining their reputation and only will do that if they feel they are established with other like-minded locals who will continue to give them business.

There is another tactic that stores use, but this would run afoul with your cake maker example. It involves giving service but limiting service to the bare minimum. An example of such is when I was in Key West once and went into a bar. Two guys walked in, sat at a table and did something to clue others in that they were a gay couple. The bartender themself came out from behind the bar, and asked what they wanted to drink. They ordered two beers which the bartender smiled and got their beers and brought them back and gave to them.
Then the bartender said "there, we have given you service which is your right. Drink up then get the hell out of here. You're on the wrong side of town."
(Key West is divided into a "gay" section and a "straight section" (at least it was when I was there 20 years ago)).

I might point out the "reputation" angle works for many different reasons and I suspect this is the reason that many people experience "poor service" in America. I can account for at least three times this has been done to me (or perhaps it is just that unless you walk in with a sawed off shot gun attitude, people just try to "get away" with as much as they can).

Weeellll...I think this is only partially true. Sexual orientation and gender identity are not considered "protected classes" by the US government like other things--such as race, sex, and disability status--are. Some states have added one or both of these to their list of "protected classes," but not all of them. So if a business or organization discriminates against a person for their sexual orientation or gender identity, then it's not a federal...matter, for lack of a better word, because I'm blanking out on the correct one. (Sorry.)

However, if an LGBTQIA+ person is discriminated against in a state that has made them a protected class, then, yes, it's illegal in that state. In my state, however, sexual orientation and gender identity are not considered protected classes, so if I were, say, evicted from my apartment for being bisexual, then I wouldn't have a leg to stand on for either a state or a federal case.

The complete list of federal "protected classes" in the US that I'm too lazy to type out myself.

(Also, as a general rule for non-US people (if it'll help), states are allowed to add things onto federal regulations, but not subtract them. Alabama can decide tomorrow that it wants to add sexual orientation and gender identity to its list of protected classes, but it can't decide to remove disability status. And the same goes for the counties within each state: Counties may add things onto federal and state regulations, but not subtract. And cities as well, even. This is how nearly every city in the county I live in has a 10% sale taxes on everything. )

 

[BiBunny]

I am desperate to go and eat In Scandinavia. One day you should ship over to me, and we'll eat our way over there in non trash style together, no doggy bags, small portions.

That plate MWY posted almost makes me cry, and I feed really big eaters at home.

I am 100% ok with this.

 

[midwestyankee]

I am desperate to go and eat In Scandinavia. One day you should ship over to me, and we'll eat our way over there in non trash style together, no doggy bags, small portions.

That plate MWY posted almost makes me cry, and I feed really big eaters at home.

Which plate was that?

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[seela]

One of the things I always feel really bad about when it comes to big portion sizes is how much food is wasted. Especially if it's meat that's simply chucked away, it just makes me feel sad. I'm not an animal loving eco hippie by a long shot, but it's a very disheartening thought that there's an animal that's only alive so that it can be killed and eaten one day, and then it's not even eaten.

I have watched some episodes of Man versus Food, and yes, I realize they only go for the ridiculously big portions on that show. But it's just insane. The presenter and the people they interview rave about how awesome it is to have a sandwich with over a pound of meat in it, and of course all the othe stuff that goes to a sandwich. Who eats a pound of meat in one sitting?

The doggie bag culture makes it better, I guess, but I'm sure a lot of it still goes to waste.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[LWulf]

Weeellll...I think this is only partially true. Sexual orientation and gender identity are not considered "protected classes" by the US government like other things--such as race, sex, and disability status--are. Some states have added one or both of these to their list of "protected classes," but not all of them. So if a business or organization discriminates against a person for their sexual orientation or gender identity, then it's not a federal...matter, for lack of a better word, because I'm blanking out on the correct one. (Sorry.)

However, if an LGBTQIA+ person is discriminated against in a state that has made them a protected class, then, yes, it's illegal in that state. In my state, however, sexual orientation and gender identity are not considered protected classes, so if I were, say, evicted from my apartment for being bisexual, then I wouldn't have a leg to stand on for either a state or a federal case.

The complete list of federal "protected classes" in the US that I'm too lazy to type out myself.
...

Last night, I followed your generalized link and found a sub-link and thought I saw something stating only some states accepting sexual orientation in some states which agreed with what you said, but I was too groggy to reply.

This morning, I clicked the link ready to say that I have lived mostly in four or five of those states in the past 20 years or so, so it's just my own ignorance that I thought all states were the same...

...BUT I couldn't find the same sub-link again this morning, AND what's worse is your generalized link says at the top:

In United States Federal anti-discrimination law, a protected class is a characteristic of a person which cannot be targeted for discrimination.[1] The following characteristics are considered "Protected Classes" by Federal law: ...

which has a sub-link (for anti-discrimination) that you click and it says:

Anti-discrimination law refers to the law on the right of people to be treated equally. Some countries mandate that in employment, in consumer transactions and in political participation people must be dealt with on an equal basis regardless of ... sexual orientation, gender identity ...

without any stipulation on where it is or isn't enforced, but since it says it's a federal law, that means it's a minimum standard.

Hrm. Though it says "some countries..." and not "In America...". I hate wiki for that. It can start out describing "this is a law in America..." then somewhere in the middle, it will bring in other countries. It's not consistent in that fashion.

...

I can only vaguely remember for myself portions in the states . Its been a very long time since I lived or travelled there. I DO remember seeing my first pizza in a pizza place which we did not know was a big portion place, I was with my parents and they just started to giggle ( I think that makes it more memorable ). Getting used to eating things like pizza with hands was fun too. . ( I like, it not sarcasm, and still eat it thT way).

...

Just to point out, there are two main types of pizza in the U.S. (Though you also have stuffed pizza which is similar to scarciedda and several other smaller variations). According to the History Channel, pizza came to the U.S. from one family (Lombardi). Accordingly, either one family member or an employee of Lombardi's Pizzeria went to Chicago and started making deep dish pizza there. Lombardi's made the hand held pizza which you noted, while "deep dish pizza" or "Chicago style" can only be eaten with fork and knife. However, even in New York, you can get a "Sicilian slice" which is a square cut "deep dish" pizza, though it is still made to be eaten by hand.
Some say that the unique water typical to New York is what gave New York style pizza it's flavor and style.

While the generally accepted style is "New York" pizza throughout the U.S., you will still find some posh restaurants that only serve "Chicago" style pizza.
Accordingly, I believe Lombardi said (New York style) was how pizza was made by their family back in Italy.

Something else that might be interesting to note is that pepperoni is an American invention, similar to salami of Milan. Though pepperoni is a corruption of peperoni (or peperone) which I believe refers to bell peppers.

I just can't imagine a pizza without pepperoni.

One of the things I always feel really bad about when it comes to big portion sizes is how much food is wasted. Especially if it's meat that's simply chucked away, it just makes me feel sad. I'm not an animal loving eco hippie by a long shot, but it's a very disheartening thought that there's an animal that's only alive so that it can be killed and eaten one day, and then it's not even eaten.

I have watched some episodes of Man versus Food, and yes, I realize they only go for the ridiculously big portions on that show. But it's just insane. The presenter and the people they interview rave about how awesome it is to have a sandwich with over a pound of meat in it, and of course all the othe stuff that goes to a sandwich. Who eats a pound of meat in one sitting?

The doggie bag culture makes it better, I guess, but I'm sure a lot of it still goes to waste.

I was brought up where a waste of food was considered a sin, so I can definitely relate to what you said.

Just remember, American TV thrives on sensationalism.

 

[Collar_N_Cuffs]

I am definitely in the small portions camp. Food waste also makes me sad. Not just because of the animal (though that is a HUGE part of it) but also how it affects our economy, and of course we all know there are starving people in the world.

Sadly, Seela is right about doggy bags going to waste for some. Ok, for me... One of my friends will live off of left overs but I try to avoid them in the first place, because I only eat about half of what I take home. He, on the other hand, views it as X amount of meals he doesn't have to cook. He will order appetizers, add ons to his main plate, desert, etc and then take them all home to live off of for the next few days. I'm too picky about the state of my food to always do that, I.e., I know I won't eat a salad that has had dressing on it more that 15 minutes.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Collar_N_Cuffs]

I think there is a huge economic discussion to be had, though probably not here. Food mountains and destruction of food not brought to market to keep prices high are pretty heinous.

Yes, exactly. Also, snobbery of the buyer. One little bruise, and that piece of fruit won't sell, and it gets chucked.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[desertslave]

Mmmmm pizza!

I grew up with the thinner-crust style at a local place run by a man who 'came up' in the NYC pizza biz. I have never tasted sauce as good as his. He made it himself, and used fire-roasted tomatoes long before it was trendy. He also kept a kitchen garden out back and even a small green house so there was fresh basil and oregano all year long.

My daughter lives in Chicago, and has treated me to Lou Malnotti's and a few other city standards. I like it but the dough-to-topping ratio is way off to me.

California has other interpretations, especially a very thin, crispy crust which I'm also not especially fond of. And weird toppings! I'm a sausage & mushroom kinda girl, not arugula and pineapple and quinoa.

Here in AZ we have a funny sort of melting pot. There's the Cali influence, and some earnestly east coast varieties, AND some impressive Chicago-style because we are the spring training home for the Cubs and White Sox.

And still, nothing that quite meets the standards of my youth. <sigh>

 

[seela]

From the Wine and Cheese thread:

We have weird rules in the States about domestic wine and beer. The film Smokey and the Bandit is even about getting a brand of beer into a place where it's not allowed by old laws. I'm not a beer drinker, in general, but there's one from my home state that doesn't travel very far afield. Part of it is limited production, but part of it is those pesky interstate rules.

What are the rules? I gathered that you aren't necessarily allowed to sell something to other states, but why is that?

I know there are dry counties, but certainly that can't play into this?

Also, do people mostly drink US wines and beers there or is it common to drink imported stuff as well?

 

[LWulf]

From the Wine and Cheese thread:


What are the rules? I gathered that you aren't necessarily allowed to sell something to other states, but why is that?

I know there are dry counties, but certainly that can't play into this?

Also, do people mostly drink US wines and beers there or is it common to drink imported stuff as well?

We can normally sell anything from one state to another as long as it's legal in both states. As long as you sell in one state, you only have to comply with the laws in that one state, but if you sell from one state to another, then you have to comply with laws from both states AND federal law too.

BEER:
Originally, Americans brought over Ale recipes from Europe on the Mayflower (essentially day one). This was mostly because all of Europe had polluted drinking water. Ale was made with the first water purification process which meant ale was considered healthier. So everyone, including kids, drank ale, in spite of the fact that the water in America was essentially pristine.

During the late 1800's to early 1900's, Lager recipes were brought over to America by German immigrants and those were much more appreciated over ale. Many of the thousands of beer manufacturers were Germans (Pabst, Schlitz, and Miller, to name a few).

Beer also had a very short shelf life back then because of bottling and refrigeration (or the lack thereof), and thus it was only available if someone local made it. Ale being a warm brewed beer and lager being a cold brewed beer.

When WW1 broke out, Americans pretty much universally boycotted all things German, even if they were made in America, by fellow Americans. This was mostly because of the sinking of the Lusitania, which had a mere 128 Americans on it. The outrage of that action caused most Americans to ban all things German.

Anyway, after WW1, there was a federal Prohibition which outlawed all alcoholic beverages (including beer). When prohibition was repealed, some 10 years later, some states or counties kept the ban on all alcohol, while others started buying beer again. When it was allowed again, Americans once again preferred a lighter Ale over Lager (perhaps continuing the ban of German "lagers." The public banning German beers wasn't ever officiated so nobody knows why).

Some state or counties continued ban of beer might have been a matter of labeling as you could only call it "beer" if it was 5% or less alcohol, 5-10% alcohol it had to be labeled "Lager," and over 10% alcohol it had to be labeled malt liquor.
I think some manufacturers simply didn't want to change their labels, perhaps because of the stigma of calling it "lager" or perhaps out of fear of another prohibition if they called it "(malt) liquor."

Some states, like Texas, are so large that it is impossible to get licensing to distribute beer in that state (each county requires a separate license), unless you are a VERY large company. Even then, sometimes the expenditures don't merit the returns.

As far as I know, you still can't buy Yuengling (pronounced "ying-ling") beer in Bethlehem, Pa in spite of the fact that Yuengling beer is made 50 miles away in Pottsville, Pa. Yuengling is the oldest beer manufacturer in the US. Yet liquor and other beers can be purchased in Bethlehem. I was told why once, by a Yuengling family member who I went to school with, but I forget the rationale.

WINE:
The oldest winery in the US is a place called Brotherhood Wine Gallery, run by a bunch of monks, I believe. I'm not sure, but I believe wine makers might have been given a free pass during Prohibition because wine is used in some Judaeo-christian religious ceremonies.

For the most part, elitist wine drinkers in America scoff at most local wines made in America and generally prefer imported. Some Napa Valley wines being an exception.

Opposed to this, most beer drinkers usually scoff at imported beers and prefer locally made beers. There are exceptions to both sides, but not as a rule.

If I recall correctly, to this day, a vinyard in Pennsylvania may grow grapes for wine as long as they only SELL 100 bottles of wine a year. They may GIVE AWAY as many more bottles of wine after that, as they like.

ALCOHOL:
There are some weird laws about alcohol too for instance, but I'm not as conversant about them. I believe you aren't allowed to open a bar in Florida, but if you have a liquor store, then you can open a bar out back (or maybe it was vice-versa). Having both in one place is highly illegal in most other states.

Ah. I found this link to "10 weird liquor laws in the US" while trying to find what I didn't know...

 

[desertslave]

LWulf, you know Yuengling!!!! I grew up in PA and looooove their lager. Their Porter rivals Guinness IMO. I still have a few precious bottles left from last year's road trip. I may have to go back to PA shortly, and the ONLY reason I might not complain loudly is the chance to bring back a few more cases.

One more quirk about the US and alcohol. Distribution is a strange state-by-state thing. Most states now license open retail sales. But Pennsylvania, among a few others, still maintains an archaic Liquor Control Board and directly (and exclusively) sells everything except beer. Beer is sold by licensed and regularly reviewed distributor or restaurants with permits. Local wine may also be sold at the point of production and limited outlets. But if you want anything from an Italian wine to rot-gut tequila, you have to buy it from the State. The LCB workers have a very strong union which has actively prevented the dissolution of the LCB for several years, now. Politics and booze...peculiar bedfellows.

 

[MeekMe]

The laws are rather weird. We have a local brewery that is just fantastic. They offer tours of the brewery so they can also operate a bar. The staff that work the bar are all volunteers (some of the brewery employees will work the day and then run the bar at night). The brewery uses the volunteer bar positions as a stepping ladder to help weed out anyone not serious about beer looking to work in the brewery.

I love going there, they offer special beers that aren't sold in stores. They make this wonderful beer with lavendar and rose hips, it's like drinking flowers. It was a really limited stock. They offer growlers, so I wonder if they sell below the amount (referring to the FL law in the link) or if that's something included in the tourism loophole.

 

[Collar_N_Cuffs]

From the Wine and Cheese thread:


What are the rules? I gathered that you aren't necessarily allowed to sell something to other states, but why is that?

I know there are dry counties, but certainly that can't play into this?

Also, do people mostly drink US wines and beers there or is it common to drink imported stuff as well?

I don't bother much with the letter of the law but I can tell you about what people drink! This is extremely, extremely regional. In Tennessee, for instance, it can still be common to make your family moonshine recipe. I thought that was Hollywood hype until my brother moved to the Tennessee countryside In California they naturally prefer California wines, Texas also likes California wines, though we also drink a lot of imported wines. Ethnic communities can tend to stick with their traditional drinks (like Mexican beers, or Columbian aguardiente) etc. So the answer is, we drink a lot of varied things, depending on where we are and what we have been exposed to