Submission ... but to whom?

[Ebonyfire]

This ain't about dicks MzC. And you ain't half as disgusted as I am.


And only certain subs who take a stand are attacked. This pack mentality is what stinks. The only people who feel free to speak their mind around here have pussies.


Eb

 

[Ebonyfire]

If I thought there was anything worth fighting about, I'd wade right in. Frankly, its not about wanting things all lovey dovy, I'm just friggin bored with the argument. Agree to disagree and move on already. You don't have to like everybody who posts here anyway. JMO of course.

THANK YOU! I totally agree. So much for the fantasy of community.

Ebony

 

[cymbidia]

Re: My 5 cents worth

Same ole shit, Eb.
Give it a rest, okay?
You're the only one who's keeping it going at this point.

I do *not* mean to be unkind at all, and i feel for the process of recovery that you're doubtless undergoing right now, buti have to ask: are you letting your feelings of hurt and anger toward what happened between you and bluespoke out in this way, at us, here? Your anger, disdain, and rage over this bit of "mad fluff" seems way out of proportion to the actual events. I can't help but think it's rage at the other thing, at the abrupt and painful dissolution of what was such a bright and shining dream that's partly fueling your reponses right now. You're not normally so...eagerly enraged. At least you haven't been so since you got to this place those months ago.

1. That the only opinions that seem to matter around here are "the hallowed few".

Bullshit. Utter and total bullshit. Everyone's opinion matters. Always have. Always will. As long as the opinions are couched in tolerant terms, we've all had the experience of having to give a nod to views that are not our own - but are perfectly justifiable from the other person's perspective.

It's when people behave in a childish and tantrumlike manner that the trouble begins. I've behaved in that way. It's not something i'm proud of, and i try not to do it, but i fail in that on occasion. Just like you, Eb. Just like Lance. Just like MzC. Just like most of us.

2. Newbies are jumped on when they do not articulate themselves to the standards of the “hallowed few”.

Wow. Can that chip on your shoulder get any bigger at all?

You're in dreamland, darlin'.
There is no hallowed few.
There are no standards for articulation.

You do everyone in this place a disservice by making such broadly inaccurate and mean-spirited statements. You hurt the very newbies you're seemingly trying to defend by making them scared to say a word - when there is no reason for fear.

3. There is a growing inhospitable climate for male Doms. No wonder they do not bother to post.

Again, you're wrong. We've never had many male doms here, to be honest. Since Day 1 of the old thread, there simply haven't been many male doms at all, ever. I don't know why. Want to begin a thread on this - anyone?

Nothing has changed since this place began.
Your interpretation is unkind and unflattering. I understand you're all fired up right now, but that's no reason for me to allow your inaccuracies to stand as if they were the truth. They are not.

4. Some newbies and those who I call the "unanointed" have to walk a thin line before they have to defend every word they post. I thought the purpose of this is to be a discussion, any exchange of ideas, not a debate.

A discussion, a debate, a heated exchange of ideas: it's all a word game, Eb.

I'll tell you this for fucking sure though: if someone, newbie or unannointed (~giggle~) or whatever, posts words that refer to my core sexuality as "a fantasy" then i'm going to feel slighted and annoyed. I'm going to respond calmly, though, and explain why i think they are mistaken, for me, in my life.

You may handle it differently. That's your choice. We all make choices.

And no one has to defend every word. Fro gods sakes one of the very biggest threads in this place is a welcome thread. Another one is a warm fuzzies thread. We're definitely welcoming to newbies here. Always have been. Always will be. You're just using them as ammo right now cuz you're all pissed off.

5. There is a pack mentality toward perceived insults. When one of the “anointed few” feels insulted, everyone jumps to that person’s aid as if they are incapable of taking care of themselves.

Everyone? Just who the hell is "everyone"? Please...i'm fascinated.

See, i think we have a bunch of really strong and fair-minded folks here, with new ones showing up every day. I don't see that pack mentality you're so sure of. And it's not because i'm involved, either. I'm not. I go my own way, for the most part.

I see something wrong and i jump in and offer my take.
I see something right and i do the same.
I spend time with newbies, making them feel comfy.
I take time with established members, too, Eb, especially those who seem to be lost and hurt and lashing out for other reasons. I understand lashing out. I understand being hurt. But i don't understand stubbornly maintaining an indefensible posture just cuz one is already there. Sometimes it's better to shout "ALL OF YOU: FUCK OFF AND DIE!", then go take a break. Believe me, everyone will understand getting to that point, and no one will even really remember why you left when you return - they'll just be glad to see you.

6. When the same things happens to one of the “unanointed” people just hurl a few parting shots and say it serves them right.

This doesn't even make sense, darlin'. Sorry.

Take a break, Eb. You've had a really bad time of of late. Your inside self, your heart and soul, they have to be cracked and bleeding. I'm so very sorry about that - but hurting us here who like and respect you is not going to help in the long run.

Go spend some time out in the sun.
Take a long weekend someplace where you can sit and listen to water and cry and purge a bit more of that rage/hurt/sorrow from your soul.

We care about you here, Eb.
We care about your up times and your down times.
We're all sorry for what's happened in your life.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: My 5 cents worth

"I do *not* mean to be unkind at all, and i feel for the process of recovery that you're doubtless undergoing right now, buti have to ask: are you letting your feelings of hurt and anger toward what happened between you and bluespoke out in this way, at us, here? Your anger, disdain, and rage over this bit of "mad fluff" seems way out of proportion to the actual events. "

This whole paragraph is out of line. cym. You have a tendency to "pop analyze" people who you know nothing about .

You do not know anything about me or my supposed feelings of hurt and anger.

For your information, I have posted this way from day one, and you did not like it then.

Thanks for making my point for me. Anyone who does not articulate their thoughts to your standards gets flamed.

Ebony

 

[cymbidia]

That wasn't a flame, Eb. I'm sorry you took it as such.

And i haven't felt anything one way or the other for the most part about your posting style over the months you've been here.

Perhaps it's time to simply let it go, hmmm?
For both of us.

 

[Ebonyfire]

That wasn't a flame, Eb. I'm sorry you took it as such.

And i haven't felt anything one way or the other for the most part about your posting style over the months you've been here.

Perhaps it's time to simply let it go, hmmm?
For both of us.

It is not what you felt, itis what you post. If you can post the way you want, so can I. I am not a sub. I do not have to curry favor with you or anyone else here. As for letting it go? I had already said I was done with it.

Then you just had to post something that you had to know I would jump on like a bad boy.

I will and can defend my rights here.



Eb

 

[Lancecastor]

Re: Re: My 5 cents worth

We've never had many male doms here, to be honest. Since Day 1 of the old thread, there simply haven't been many male doms at all, ever. I don't know why. Want to begin a thread on this - anyone?

Nothing has changed since this place began.

Hi.

You raise an interesting issue.

Maybe it deserves some thinking beyond a thread by the Mods.

Lance

 

[Lancecastor]

Re: Re: My 5 cents worth

Same ole shit, Eb.
Give it a rest, okay?
You're the only one who's keeping it going at this point.

I do *not* mean to be unkind at all, and i feel for the process of recovery that you're doubtless undergoing right nowTake a break, Eb. You've had a really bad time of of late. Your inside self, your heart and soul, they have to be cracked and bleeding. I'm so very sorry about that - but hurting us here who like and respect you is not going to help in the long run.

(extensive edit by LC)

Go spend some time out in the sun.
Take a long weekend someplace where you can sit and listen to water and cry and purge a bit more of that rage/hurt/sorrow from your soul.

We care about you here, Eb.
We care about your up times and your down times.
We're all sorry for what's happened in your life.

Cym:

If you did to me what you did to Eb in this post, I'd be on the phone to Lit's lawyers about a lawsuit.

You are a Moderator of a Board. You are supposed to be trustworthy and fair.

You are demonstrably neither.

You have just aired Eb's personal life in front of a whole bunch of people (me included) who, unlike You, have never heard it before.

I suggest you do the right thing forthwith.

Lance

 

[Guest]

LIt isnt real life..... forget that and real life wanders away.

 

[cymbidia]

Re: Re: Re: My 5 cents worth

Hi.

You raise an interesting issue.

Maybe it deserves some thinking beyond a thread by the Mods.

Hi.


I'm not sure what you mean by "beyond a thread by the Mods" but i've dome some thinking about why there are relatively few doms here with respect to femsubs and dommes.

In my mind, there are vastly more women then men all over the net in places such as this kind of online communities right through to chat rooms of all stripes (except technically based and/or gaming type places, i think). For some reason, women gravitate in larger numbers to online communities whereas men comprise a much larger percentage in places like alt.com and friendfinder.com.

Men want to see the beast, kill the beast, drag the beast home, eat the beast, fuck thier women, and sleep the sleep of the well-satisfied man as the stars come out and light the night sky into glowing glory.

Women want to talk things over and dissect them for meaning and content and decide among themselves which of those plants down by the water are poisonous and which will ease menstrual cramps and which will taste good crumbled over the roasted beast. Women want to help each other make new beastskin mocs for the coming winter and work together to cook the beast as its skin comes off. And then they want to fuck theie men and sleep the sleep of a well-satisfied woman as the fire burns into ashes in the firepit.

We're different animals, men and women. I think the disparity in relative genders in most online communities serves to hightlight that fact.

Sexually dominant men are different than most men in another way. They're usually men of action in a gender given to action. They're decisive and unusually unwaffling. They go and do rather then sitting and thinking. Usually.

That's my rather amusingly simplistic take on evolution as one of the reasons why there are relatively fewer doms online, in general, and in communities such as this, in particular, then are present in the general population.

 

[cymbidia]

Re: Re: Re: My 5 cents worth

Cym:

If you did to me what you did to Eb in this post, I'd be on the phone to Lit's lawyers about a lawsuit.

You are a Moderator of a Board. You are supposed to be trustworthy and fair.

You are demonstrably neither.

Lance, Eb herself has posted quite a lot regarding this issue - and before anyone else did, too. That you know nothing about it doesn't mean anything at all in this matter.

I am not unfair.

I am trustworthy.

Thank you for your concern for her, though; it reflects well on you. (I'm not being at all sarcastic, in case you take it that way. I'm concerned for her, too, and i think it must make her feel good to have people "in her corner" right now.)

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: Re: Re: My 5 cents worth

Lance, Eb herself has posted quite a lot regarding this issue - and before anyone else did, too. That you know nothing about it doesn't mean anything at all in this matter.

I am not unfair.

I am trustworthy.

Thank you for your concern for her, though; it reflects well on you. (I'm not being at all sarcastic, in case you take it that way. I'm concerned for her, too, and i think it must make her feel good to have people "in her corner" right now.)

I do not need your phony concern cym. There is nothing wrong with me. I am tired of this.

oh puleeze. what do you know about "my corner."

 

[James Blandings]

Re: Re: Re: Re: My 5 cents worth

Hi.


I'm not sure what you mean by "beyond a thread by the Mods" but i've dome some thinking about why there are relatively few doms here with respect to femsubs and dommes.

In my mind, there are vastly more women then men all over the net in places such as this kind of online communities right through to chat rooms of all stripes (except technically based and/or gaming type places, i think). For some reason, women gravitate in larger numbers to online communities whereas men comprise a much larger percentage in places like alt.com and friendfinder.com.

Men want to see the beast, kill the beast, drag the beast home, eat the beast, fuck thier women, and sleep the sleep of the well-satisfied man as the stars come out and light the night sky into glowing glory.

Women want to talk things over and dissect them for meaning and content and decide among themselves which of those plants down by the water are poisonous and which will ease menstrual cramps and which will taste good crumbled over the roasted beast. Women want to help each other make new beastskin mocs for the coming winter and work together to cook the beast as its skin comes off. And then they want to fuck theie men and sleep the sleep of a well-satisfied woman as the fire burns into ashes in the firepit.

We're different animals, men and women. I think the disparity in relative genders in most online communities serves to hightlight that fact.

Sexually dominant men are different than most men in another way. They're usually men of action in a gender given to action. They're decisive and unusually unwaffling. They go and do rather then sitting and thinking. Usually.

That's my rather amusingly simplistic take on evolution as one of the reasons why there are relatively fewer doms online, in general, and in communities such as this, in particular, then are present in the general population.

I have belonged to a great many posting or messaging communities, from the old Thrive and ACLU boards to egroups, Yahoo groups, etc.
I have never belonged to a general BDSM group where male Doms were not in a small minority.
That's just the way it seems to be on the net. I'm sure we can speculate as to why, but in my experience, that's just the way it is. The relative population of this board doesn't seem unusual at all, and I don't see any evidence to draw particular conclusions from it.

 

[Lancecastor]

Demographic splits on Lit BDSM

Hi;

I left out some punctuation there.....I think the issue deserves more than a thread.....I think the Mods ought to give the matter some serious thought, as the matter is indicative of something out of whack here versus the rest of the 'net.

Your thoughts about users, demographic splits, behaviors, etc...are wrong.

This Board should be swamped with men. 2-1 minimum, like any other male-female personal interaction environment.

The fact that it isn't says something.

You should collectively try to make this part of Lit useful, relevant and educational to all those who want to learn, know and participate in BDSM.

All. Inclusive. Welcoming.

Or....you can remain a cloistered enclave of pain and dimestore therapy.

Those are my thoughts based on using Lit since its inception.

Sincerely

Lance

Hi.


I'm not sure what you mean by "beyond a thread by the Mods" but i've dome some thinking about why there are relatively few doms here with respect to femsubs and dommes.

In my mind, there are vastly more women then men all over the net in places such as this kind of online communities right through to chat rooms of all stripes (except technically based and/or gaming type places, i think). For some reason, women gravitate in larger numbers to online communities whereas men comprise a much larger percentage in places like alt.com and friendfinder.com.

Men want to see the beast, kill the beast, drag the beast home, eat the beast, fuck thier women, and sleep the sleep of the well-satisfied man as the stars come out and light the night sky into glowing glory.

Women want to talk things over and dissect them for meaning and content and decide among themselves which of those plants down by the water are poisonous and which will ease menstrual cramps and which will taste good crumbled over the roasted beast. Women want to help each other make new beastskin mocs for the coming winter and work together to cook the beast as its skin comes off. And then they want to fuck theie men and sleep the sleep of a well-satisfied woman as the fire burns into ashes in the firepit.

We're different animals, men and women. I think the disparity in relative genders in most online communities serves to hightlight that fact.

Sexually dominant men are different than most men in another way. They're usually men of action in a gender given to action. They're decisive and unusually unwaffling. They go and do rather then sitting and thinking. Usually.

That's my rather amusingly simplistic take on evolution as one of the reasons why there are relatively fewer doms online, in general, and in communities such as this, in particular, then are present in the general population.

 

[James Blandings]

Re: Demographic splits on Lit BDSM

Hi;

I left out some punctuation there.....I think the issue deserves more than a thread.....I think the Mods ought to give the matter some serious thought, as the matter is indicative of something out of whack here versus the rest of the 'net.

Your thoughts about users, demographic splits, behaviors, etc...are wrong.

This Board should be swamped with men. 2-1 minimum, like any other male-female personal interaction environment.

The fact that it isn't says something.

You should collectively try to make this part of Lit useful, relevant and educational to all those who want to learn, know and participate in BDSM.

All. Inclusive. Welcoming.

Or....you can remain a cloistered enclave of pain and dimestore therapy.

Those are my thoughts based on using Lit since its inception.

Sincerely

Lance

As I stated in my previous post, in my experience, the demographics of this forum seem normal for a BDSM board. Your experience may well differ, but I have to reject any assumption that this board is an anomoly in that regard.

I'd like to ask you to take a look at the first page of the forum. As I type this there are threads there in which people are describing BDSM terms for novices, putting together a fine guide to the various toys, and discussing such topics as sybmission versus passivity, BDSM in the media, scene wear, chastity, bondage basic, and your own thread on switching and self awareness is still going strong. And as Cym pointed out , the welcome new faces, and Risia's "warm and fuzzy" threads have several new posts nearly every day.
I suggest that you may be so closely tied in to this discussion that perhaps the larger picture has gotten slightly out of focus. The majority of posters seem to have shrugged at all the heat and noise and gone about their business. If I did not believe that a great many people were finding this a supportive and educational place to post I would not be here myself.

As I posted last night, my mail box is open and I will give my full and to the best of my ability fair attention to any grievances that any poster has about how this board operates.

 

[morninggirl5]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: My 5 cents worth

I have belonged to a great many posting or messaging communities, from the old Thrive and ACLU boards to egroups, Yahoo groups, etc.
I have never belonged to a general BDSM group where male Doms were not in a small minority.
That's just the way it seems to be on the net. I'm sure we can speculate as to why, but in my experience, that's just the way it is. The relative population of this board doesn't seem unusual at all, and I don't see any evidence to draw particular conclusions from it.

I've sent links here to several male Dom's and several males who don't identify themselves as a Dom. Each and every one of them has responded to me in the same way. They see why i post here, they recognize that this forum meets my needs to analyze and think through things to an extent that some find excessive. They then state, that they're really not interested in discussing issues so thoroughly and they prefer less "cerebral" places online for their own enjoyment.

The analogy isn't perfect, but in comparing this forum to daytime TV, this forum is Oprah and men tend to prefer the Rosie show. Faster paced, more games, and a much shallower involvement.

Oprah's style fits me. Occasionally, i enjoy a bit of Rosie's style, as well.

 

[artful]

Hi Folks

As has been stated, there are problems here that need addressing by us all. Most of it has nothing to do with BDSM, but rather, statements taken out of context, and lines being drawn.

Then, there IS a split in OUR Forum. I am not taking sides in the matter,(not because I don't have an opinion on it), but simply because it would cause FURTHER division in our rank and file.

THAT,...is the fucking problem, TAKING SIDES on an issue that CLEARLY should be left alone. WHY do some people THINK they need to jump to anyone's defense. It's ridiculous!

When I was involved in *flaming*,...all I wanted was for a Moderator to come and put out the fire.

I didn't wish to ARGUE, or defend myself against erroneous accusations, but as some others, when the snide remarks keep coming,(even when I requested that I wished for NO ONE to post on the thread anymore, they still persisted), I felt honor bound to RESPOND.

Most of us here, at the BDSM Forum, post to give, or get information. It's when a person FEELS attacked that issues develope, PM'S are sent, sides are taken, that rips us apart.

I don't need a BACK-UP for my posts, I don't WANT
anyone else defending my fucking opinion. It's MY opinion and I own it.~"WHY TAKE SIDES ?"~

P.S.~Hell,...we ALL make mistakes!

 

[Never]

Re: Re: Re: My 5 cents worth

Lancecastor:
"If you did to me what you did to Eb in this post, I'd be on the phone to Lit's lawyers about a lawsuit."

You have nothing to sue over. Cymbidia could post the name, phone number, and address of everyone she knows at Literotica and it wouldn’t be illegal. Nor do Moderators have to be anymore 'trustworthy and fair' than any other member of Lit.

Besides, you sign a wavier every time you post:

WAIVER: By posting a message on this bulletin board, you understand this is your exercising of free speech under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution - which governs this website. As such, any reply to you is also protected and you waive liability to Literotica for any discussion resulting from such a reply or thread. If you do not agree, then DO NOT POST. To post is an express waiver of liability to Literotica.com.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Great thread with a lot of sadly missed faces, and interesting discussion despite some underlying issues coming to the surface.

Catalina

 

[PathFinder17]

This is most likely a regurgitation of many views shared already, but as a novice male Dom new to the boards, I'd like to add what weight I can. My level of experience is limited to what I've read and learned through discussions over the past 4 months.

Here is my one cent worth...

i think it is vitally important that a submissive be able to speak up and voice her thoughts and opinions,

This is exactly how I envisage any relationship I enter into being. How can you have an honest and trusting relationship without this?

i have heard that something terribly important for a Dom is to do what is for the good of the submissive...how is He to do that, if she is not allowed to speak up? How is He to truly know her needs as a submissive if He doesn't value what comes out of her mouth? How can one respect one that calls Himself Dom if He does not understand her strength inside?

belle

I want to share my life with a person not a robot. How else can one know and understand what the someone's (submissive or otherwise) needs are and how best to conduct the realtionship in a nuturing or caring way. After all, isn't that what we're trying to achieve?