Tell me about Dom psychology please

[sunandshadow]

Returning to your character, I don't see why he wouldn't understand the woman's pacifism; on one likes war, especially the military. After all, they are the ones who have to go out and get killed. What he won't understand is why she's so stuck-up and selfish, that she doesn't care about her people's freedom and rights; why she would bury her head in the sand instead of facing the reality that if she doesn't fight, everything worth living for will be destroyed, and she might even be killed. He might even be curious about why that is, kind of like how you wonder why dominants are like how they are. (And, for the record, there are many dominant pacifists).

Another bit that struck me as odd is your assumption that dominants don't believe that honor extends to allowing personal choice. A good dominant makes you want to do what he want. In the example of the above drill Sargent, the recruits can quit at any time; he can't "force" them to do anything.

Oops, I forgot to explain this part and it's a pretty important part. Will show why JMohegan's post is not applicable too.

The woman is not there to be fucked, she is there because she has a magical talent of high tactical value. Unlike the military recruits, she does not have permission to quit. She is a captive/slave. No ravaging happens, at least at the beginning; the man is persistent in the face of the woman's stubborn disagreement because the clan leader that the man loves/hero worships said, "The clan needs her, I need her in my army; she could be truly great if we could just make her change her attitude." Beyond the attitude readjustment part, they are under time pressure so they are trying to force her to gain knowledge and experience even while she's still refusing to cooperate because if/when she does change her mind they don't want her to be starting from scratch in her training then; also they want to see how great her potential actually is to see if it's worth the effort of keeping her captive and spending all the man's time training her when he's a skilled warrior in his own right and could be honing his own skills or fighting or training someone more willing.

 

[Adakgirl]

The difficult thing for your readers to buy is this:

Why would such a woman..who is so blessed with these magical powers, who is so needed and desired for use fighting in the army, ever "break" and co-operate? Her morals and beliefs would certainly prevent her from doing so. Such a woman would rather die than give in to any man and go against everything she believes in. She certainly could never be convinced to do so by he who enslaves her, keeps her against her will, puts her through mental and physical torture, tries to brain wash her to give him what he wants. In my way of thinking that kind treatment would cause her to hate him, to shut down even more, hold her ground even until death if necessary. If anything she can fall back on those magical powers that..if they will be so useful in battle...could easily kill him .

That's the main flaw I see with using that scenario.

 

[JMohegan]

Aside from the romance novels and personal experiences mentioned above, my inspiration for this particular Dom character was sparked by a sports anime I watched recently. (Eyeshield 21) I found it unusual that I liked the show because I'm not a sports fan, but it had a really powerful psychology going on in the characters and sort of 'contagious' to the audience. One of the characters was extremely disciplined in an old-fashioned warrior way; he was several times referred to as a perfect knight. The sport is his life, you see him training everywhere he goes, feeling a strong kinship with his coach, quarterback, and rivals especially when there's a particularly fierce contest or difficult training exercise going on. At the same time it's cute that he's pretty clueless about girls and life outside of training and competition.

Also in the series there is a continuous message delivered, mostly by the protagonist team's quarterback, "You have to believe fiercely that you will win, you have to do what it takes to win even if it makes you sick or leaves you with a permanent injury, you're not doing it right if you're not constantly forcing yourself past your limits.

You mentioned that illogical characters tick you off, so I feel compelled to point out that this "message" is possibly the most illogical thing I have ever read.

If the O-line gets crippled, that QB will have his ass handed to him next time he steps out on the field. And if his star receiver - the one he's trained with day after day after day, week after week, month after month, pass after pass after pass, till he knows to within practically an inch just how high he can jump, how nimbly he twists, how far and how fast he can run, not just in sun and fair wind, but in sheets of rain and freezing snow and dust and slogging mud - if this receiver is felled by some idiotic and fantastically self-destructive training philosophy, then all of that training will have been for naught, and that QB will never win.

Anime. Christ!

This whole mindset is alien to me, I found myself at several points saying "No, permanent injury is not an acceptable possibility from training, it's not healthy to think in terms of 'victory or death' because everyone loses some of the time and losing a contest shouldn't result in them losing their self respect or possibly feeling suicidal." So I want to build a character around this puzzling mindset so I can play with it, road-test it.

Losing and stabbing yourself in the stomach is an ancient Japanese thing.

If the mindset fascinates you, reading up on seppuku might be the way to go.

 

[Homburg]

A good dominant makes you want to do what he want.

So does a good officer or NCO in the military. I do get your point though. As a dominant, it is not about force, it's about loyalty, service, etc.

Just because the genre is boilerplate, it doesn't mean you don't want to do a good job.

Though I should be careful talking about "boilerplate", because a lot of that has to do with taste. I could easily dismiss most Crime novels as boilerplate, because they don't interest me, and seem to follow a pattern. But, I'm sure one of their fans would be quick to dismiss such claims.

I used to have a copy of an article on how to write a best selling novel, written by one of the great pulp writers. Dashiel Hammett maybe? Anyway, in it he gave his own formula that he used to write his books. It fit too. He stayed true to it.

Boilerplate may be insufficient from an artistic standpoint, but it sure does get books to the checkout.

--

Well, the point of the story is that the two, both somewhat likable people, due to terminal personality clash push each other to the point where they genuinely really want to kill each other (and she attempts to do so). But that's not her breaking, it's her getting so desperate she finally compromises on her pacifism, which is exactly what he wanted, just not aimed at him.

Gotcha. I'm not really sure that a dominant in the BDSM sense is what you need. Well, perhaps you are going to include psychosexual elements, but the sort of drama you are talking about here really doesn't have much at all to do with BDSM. I have to concur with JM that he would likely not treat her in the way you are discussing, magical talent or not.

 

[satindesire]

I'm not trying to be flippant here; I'm just trying to give a quick summary of the main point. That point being: until she has a radical attitude adjustment, I don't see why this great warrior would want to have anything to do with her. At all.

This is true...it'll be difficult to play out in an RP sense.

I have RPed for years now, and find that playing for the sake of playing, no matter what the other character's attitudes are like, simply doesn't work. Realism is something I strive hard for, even when my character isn't human they still have to be believable in the utmost.

I've had plenty of experiences when a character approaches mine with the intent of socializing, but either acts so rude, flippant, condescending or strange that it makes MY character either get pissed off or leave. In real life, if someone were saying or doing those things, you'd either get pissed off or leave too!

The thing is, the female character has to have a REALLY good reason to be a pacifist...either some seriously ingrained religious beliefs or something so pure and PART OF HER that only the most amazing act of change will get her to go against that. Also, the male Dom character isn't realistically going to want to 'break her' unless he intends to kill her, rape her, or do something other than what a noble, honorable man would do (thus nullifying his nobility and honor). Broken willed people are truly that...shattered, brainless doormats unable to care for themselves with no sense of logic or self preservation. That's not good material for a female lead.

What he might do instead, in order to show her what's going on in reality around her, is take her to the battlefield. Show her the horrors of war. Have her tend the wounded soldiers, see the blood and guts and screams of the dying. SHOW her these things so that she -understands- what he's fighting for. Drill it into her head in a very shocking way that her ideals of pacifism could end up getting her and the people she loves killed. Etc. Peace through superior strength and all that jazz.

Another plot device...sexual attraction. If she's female and beautiful, he's going to feel attracted to her, whether he likes her attitude or not. NO normal red-blooded human man is going to be totally immune to her charms. Sexual tension between two characters that hate each other makes for a really juicy drama.

However, if she truly goes homicidal on him, will he ever trust her? I could never allow myself to get close to anyone who attempted to kill me, no matter how hot I thought they were. Think carefully about that plot device, as it might end up seeming forced, illogical or contrived to the reader.

 

[sunandshadow]

The difficult thing for your readers to buy is this:

Why would such a woman..who is so blessed with these magical powers, who is so needed and desired for use fighting in the army, ever "break" and co-operate? Her morals and beliefs would certainly prevent her from doing so. Such a woman would rather die than give in to any man and go against everything she believes in. She certainly could never be convinced to do so by he who enslaves her, keeps her against her will, puts her through mental and physical torture, tries to brain wash her to give him what he wants. In my way of thinking that kind treatment would cause her to hate him, to shut down even more, hold her ground even until death if necessary. If anything she can fall back on those magical powers that..if they will be so useful in battle...could easily kill him .

That's the main flaw I see with using that scenario.

I don't understand how the woman's magical powers and military value would automatically give her self reliance and strength of mind/character. For one thing she has potential rather than actual power and no knowledge of how to use it, can't do enough with it to free herself at least until 100 pages or so into the novel. But yes, I do want her shutting down and hating the man because of the crap he puts her through.

 

[sunandshadow]

The thing is, the female character has to have a REALLY good reason to be a pacifist...either some seriously ingrained religious beliefs or something so pure and PART OF HER that only the most amazing act of change will get her to go against that. Also, the male Dom character isn't realistically going to want to 'break her' unless he intends to kill her, rape her, or do something other than what a noble, honorable man would do (thus nullifying his nobility and honor). Broken willed people are truly that...shattered, brainless doormats unable to care for themselves with no sense of logic or self preservation. That's not good material for a female lead.

What about the idea of breaking someone down so you can build them back up in a more ideal way? When I was reading about military bootcamp psychology they talked about this idea.

However, if she truly goes homicidal on him, will he ever trust her? I could never allow myself to get close to anyone who attempted to kill me, no matter how hot I thought they were. Think carefully about that plot device, as it might end up seeming forced, illogical or contrived to the reader.

Yeah I agree that's a serious question, at the moment I'm not sure whether I intend them to end up together or not, or even whether I want her to actually kill him.

 

[satindesire]

What about the idea of breaking someone down so you can build them back up in a more ideal way? When I was reading about military bootcamp psychology they talked about this idea.

I think that's a great idea!

Yeah I agree that's a serious question, at the moment I'm not sure whether I intend them to end up together or not, or even whether I want her to actually kill him.

*nods*

 

[Netzach]

What about the idea of breaking someone down so you can build them back up in a more ideal way? When I was reading about military bootcamp psychology they talked about this idea.

Go watch V for Vendetta and GI Jane.

I'm serious.

 

[Homburg]

V For Vendetta is on my guilty pleasures list insofar as movies are concerned.

 

[Seany_Mark2]

I actually am a psychologist and could help you with the psychological theoretics behind what drives are behind this and accepted profiles of doms and subs etc but that is probably not at all what you are looking for . And to be honest, the theoretic knowledge actually takes the magic away