The appeal of punishment?

[IrisAlthea]

It's not just any old "positive reinforcement" that works best. People say that, but they leave out part of it. It's intermittent positive reinforcement that works best. The quick Google search I did pulled up a bunch of needlessly complicated shit about it, so I've got nothing to link to. But I did get my psych degree at a very behavior-analysis-oriented program, so we got that shit drilled in our heads constantly.

The rat in the Skinner box who's learned that pushing the lever brings food every time will soon stop pushing the lever if it stops getting the food. Continuous positive reinforcement creates behavior that's extinguished quickly. Positive reinforcement that's linked to a time-table or a certain number of times a behavior is performed creates behaviors that are a little harder to extinguish. But truly intermittent reinforcement that's tied to nothing in particular, that happens at random times creates behavioral responses that are very hard to extinguish. The rat will push the lever til he dies, in hopes that this time will be the time.

Of course, humans aren't rats. We aren't rewarded for one specific behavior. So if it's extrapolated to us, then intermittent positive reinforcement is a lot like what OSG and Netz talked about. The "behavior" being rewarded is technically "being a good boy/girl," so it's not totally random. (Nobody's going to stop and hand you a reward for being bad.) But it happens on a random schedule, so you can't predict it, which makes it even more effective at shaping the "good boy/girl" behaviors.

TL;DR Bunny hasn't forgotten everything she learned in college, and she doesn't get out nearly enough.

And everyone who has seen people standing at those gambling machines or buying those lottery tickets where you can win small sums or new lottery tickets relatively often, knows lot of humans will keep pushing that lever too.

 

[ecstaticsub]

I have discovered in the past year that what works to truly change my behavior, my attitude, my way of thinking really has been positive attention. Not a reward or positive reinforcement but simple attention. I don't need the pat on the head saying "good girl for doing XYZ". I just need him to be happy using me as he wishes.

The worst punishment for me and also the very least effective has been withdrawal of attention. It just makes me anxious and my ability to control my fears is impossible.

Now on the other hand, if it is not a behavior that needs to be changed but a specific transgression that perhaps has been repeated or he feels is severe enough that he needs to leave a lasting impression then quick, non-erotic, physically painful punishment works very well for me because it simply reminds me of my place.

Most issues are resolved simply by him telling me not to do it again. But there are those rare instances that physical punishment is called for in our dynamic.

 

[eastern sun]

The worst punishment for me and also the very least effective has been withdrawal of attention. It just makes me anxious and my ability to control my fears is impossible.

I think it's interesting that withdrawal of attention is - for me - a very effective punishment, but we are still living together during those periods. His belongings are still in the house. I'm still doing his laundry, cooking his meals. We still pass each other silently, or exchange brief words.

It gives me time to reflect, correct the immediate cause, and even pay attention to things that have been neglected because our day-to-day interactions take precedence. And his discovery that I have tended to something that he wanted me to do but had not yet gotten around to, is often the thing that softens his attitude and brings us back together.

(But don't get me wrong - it's taken me 20 years to find peace of mind there. Maybe I am finally convinced that he isn't going to walk away. Or maybe it's okay with me when he does.)

 

[intothewoods]

Nope. AA isn't really cult-like, no matter what they say.

Hmm... Apple store?

Now I want to know!

 

[ecstaticsub]

I think it's interesting that withdrawal of attention is - for me - a very effective punishment, but we are still living together during those periods. His belongings are still in the house. I'm still doing his laundry, cooking his meals. We still pass each other silently, or exchange brief words.

It gives me time to reflect, correct the immediate cause, and even pay attention to things that have been neglected because our day-to-day interactions take precedence. And his discovery that I have tended to something that he wanted me to do but had not yet gotten around to, is often the thing that softens his attitude and brings us back together.

(But don't get me wrong - it's taken me 20 years to find peace of mind there. Maybe I am finally convinced that he isn't going to walk away. Or maybe it's okay with me when he does.)

The difference is probably due to the fact that you live with your husband and I don't live with my dominant. I can see in your case that the silent treatment would not be as bad.

 

[MasterJere]

Here's a fun one...how do you punish a submissive who gets off on pain?

Easy you act like your about to slap her then stop at the last second...


but to answer your question, for some, giving punishments is about the power. the physical effort to make someone step back into line and do what you want. think about all the people you have no control over, people who can walk all over you if you want... boss, parents, coworkers to an extent... now think of someone who has submitted to you willingly but isnt doing as you say. isnt it a relief to beable to make them do as you say and wish they didnt disobey?

just thoughts to think about

 

[Beck31]

Punishment

Punishment is not supposed to be for pleasure. If it used in the right way then the sub or pup learns not to break the rules again. If used in the wrong way then, sadly, it is abuse. As a submissive pup and currently bieng trained I have had my share of punishments. A true Mistress or Master will only use this as a last resort and it will hurt them to hurt their pet. Usually spanking either with an object such as a crop or a rolled up newspaper or hands. But it does not have to be physical. A punishment can be emotional like time out or imo the worst is bieng ignored. Not sure why someone who was truly in the Lifestyle would choose to be punishment. Like I said I am just a pup so I don't know everything. All I can go by is the information I have gleened and from my own personal experiences.

 

[njlauren]

Beck-

I think there is some confusion, I think some confuse the kind of 'punishment' you see in play scenarios, where in response to something the sub supposedly did, they needed to be 'punished' , it is not 'real', it is simply part of the background of the way the couple plays, a scenario, whatever.....as opposed to punishment as correction or to address a transgression, which is not fun.

The only people I have ever seen go for the real deal were smart assed masochists (SAM's) or dominants who really got off on hurting their sub, neither of which to me are particularly great examples of the form, but that is me. I agree with many posters, the most effective punishments are not physical ones, they are things like distancing and displeasure, that make clear the consequences of screwing up, where there can be no element of SAM'ness and so forth, where neither really enjoys it.