the D/s relationship - ultimate responsibility Dom/me or sub's?

[Evil_Geoff]

I am sure this has been discussed before, but I was hoping for your perspectives. . .

Where does the final responsibility lie. . . does a D/s relationship rest on the sub's willingness to aquiesce or the Dom/me's enforcement of demands?

I HATE re-inventing the wheel. Soooo the following is a post I put up on the North_Georgia_Ms_Ds_Munch Yahoo group a couple of days ago. The stuff in red is the original post, a few spelling and grammatical errors were cleaned up. And yes, I have my own permission to repost it here!

Morning folks,

I'm donning my asbestos undies here because I'm going to say a few things that will probably piss some people off. But I've gotten to the point where I'm sick and tired of people talking about fantasy fuel like it's a way to live a life. So fair warning, the following is...

a...

</Rant Mode On>

You know, a really sad thing has happened in American society over the last couple of generations. You see it in politics, business, entertainment, society in general, even in the military to some degree. What am I refering to?

The feeling that with power and position comes a LACK of responsibility.

We see it demonstrated on the nightly news and in our papers day in, day out. CEO's and CFO's running companies into the ground, cheating their customers, their employees and ultimately their families and themselves. Celebrities running around with absolute abandon, a total lack of control, making spectacles of themselves to keep their face and fame in the public eye. We read of politicians taking kickbacks, selling their power and influence to the highest bidder, they get busted and whine when they go to prison...

*shakes his head sadly*

Why should, (or would) "Dominants" be any different?

Doesn't matter if they are male or female, straight, gay or bi, monogamous or poly. Dominants are human beings, and can be just as self-centered, selfish, egotistical, and petty as the president of Enron, a corrupt Senator, or head-shaving, coked up drunk singer.

Dominants do not come with any special "honor".
They don't come with a warrantee for caring.
They don't have some mystical mind reading ability to know what submissives need.
They don't have a gene that sets them apart from the rest of humanity.
Dominants are PEOPLE, with all of the weaknesses, frailities, vulnerabilities and faults any other human being can have.

And to _expect_ anything different is the height of foolishness.

But we read in the papers and see it on the news that there are a lot of foolish people out there too. People who accept the bullshit, put up with the nonsense, fall for the lies, trust the untrustworthy.

Subs are people too and just as susceptible to the nonsense, and are equally full of faults, weaknesses, vulnerability...

People, to make healthy relationships that work, you need two (or more) ADULTS, who accept their OWN FRAGGIN' RESPONSIBILITIES to care for themselves first (after all, if you crash and burn because you don't take care of yourself, how in God's name can you take care of your partner???). Then they accept their OWN FRAGGIN' RESPONSIBILITY to take care of their partner.

HELLO! WAKEY-WAKEY! There is a reason it's called a power EXCHANGE, people! Fer crying out loud, get a fraggin' clue. It's a RELATIONSHIP. That means it flows both ways. Doesn't matter if it's Bf/Gf, Top/bottom, Dom/sub or Owner/slave. BOTH (or all) PARTIES in the relationship must take care of themselves AND their partner(s). They must communicate (not dictate) their needs and desires, and work TOGETHER, to fullfill what should be their mutual goals as well as their individual ones.

If not, the relationship is doomed to failure. It might be weeks, months, or even years, but eventually someone will burn out, give up, and bail out of the situation where their needs are not met, their desires go unfulfilled, where they are used, taken for granted, disregarded.

Slapping the Dom/Master/Mistress/Top/Sadist and sub/bottom/slave/masochist labels on people doesn't make them stop being people. Calling someone a slave doesn't change their nature as a human being, doesn't eliminate their human needs. Making someone a pony or puppy or kitten or other pet doesn't mean they stop needing care, love, affection, play, work, interaction.

Entirely too many people read or watch bad porn/SM fantasy that is intended to be nothing more than wanking material, and romance novel sweetness (No planets orbitting the opposite side of the Sun, nor fantasy citadel websites will be named as examples), and think they can build their "relationships" and/or lifestyle based on somebody else's fraggin' fantasies...

It's sad. And collectively, there isn't a damned thing we can do about it except try to build our own relationships that work. Live our own lives as examples, demonstrate our responsibility to ourselves and our partners and our community. We're out here, the responsible ones. You can tell who we are. We're the boring ones. We're the one's who have had relationships last YEARS. We're the one's who don't have partners in and out of velcro collars. We're the ones who have play partners taking numbers, we're the one's who are preaching PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY to everyone, regardless of which side of the power exchange slash you live on...

Too bad so many people on either side of the slash are only loking at this as a way to AVOID responsibility... the subs or slaves who want to dump it all on Mistress or Sir... the Doms/Owners who think that because a person wants and needs to serve that they don't need to be respected or cared for...

The real failure comes when any of us stop seeing our partner as a PERSON first. It starts breaking when we start seeing the role in the relationship before we see the human being in that role. When our own pleasure, profit, and benefits come at the exclusion of meeting the needs and desires of our partner, it's already over. The clock is just ticking on when our partners will call it quits.

I hope a lot of people will look in the mirror and see themselves. Maybe they'll get pissed off enough to start growing up, to look at handling their relationships like adults, to start living in the real world instead of some fantasy land, to take responsibility for themselves for a change, and stop blaming (or giving credit to others) for where their lives and relationships are.

But I don't expect it to happen.

</Rant Mode Off>

There, I feel better, even if the message only reaches one person then I've
done some good.

 

[callinectes]

i think it all depends on the context of the situation. In most cases the responsibility lies with both parties. In an arguement, the Dom makes the final decision. i speak for myself on this one though.

Again, I see his making the decision as an example of power. He has the power to have the final say. In this case, his responsibility is to make a decision that is beneficial to the overall health of the relationship. You have a responsibility to abide by his decision.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

i think it all depends on the context of the situation. In most cases the responsibility lies with both parties. In an arguement, the Dom makes the final decision. i speak for myself on this one though.

while i agree most of the time that Master has the final decision, in an 'argument' we kind of step outside of our D/s dynamic, not so much that i mean we are not long D/s but that we are on 'equal' footing and are able to express our concerns to each other (especially me) without feeling like i'm lesser than Him and that my feelings don't matter. i guess He does have the final decision but i know He'll make it with my thoughts and feelings in mind and usually there is a compromise.....as to the answer of the original questions, i agree that both parties are responsible for their part in the relationship.....just my two cents

 

[Mike260]

I never said the power in a relationship is always completely equal. I don't believe that.

However in most cases both have ultimate responsibility for themselves, the communication in the relationship and the relationship itself.

What percentage of power each has, is given or takes, I can't say as that is different for each relationship.

I can bitch all I want about my ex but I in a sense let the situation continue and the abuse. That's on me though I still call it non consensual. I freely admit it. I was a sick lil puppy. In some ways I still am.

Fury

Fury, I totally buy that it was non-consensual. And there's the rub. None of our relationships are completely consensual, however much we want to pretend to ourselves that they are.

The case in which someone can't leave an abusive partner is extreme and awful.

But what about the poor spouse of the guy who won't screw back on the toothpaste cap, however hard you urge him? There's nothing you can do. What are you going to do, leave him? I doubt it. A toothpaste cap is probably too trivial to dissolve a relationship over. But he's made it obvious that he's not gonna change. So you relent to him. But you certainly don't consent.

The same kind of dynamic can revolve around leaving the toilet seat up, the tone of voice used in daily conversations, or the way children are raised.

Staying in or leaving a relationship is a strong, bold move that allows self determination and consentuality. But the days measured out in coffee spoons chip away at free will with the forces of stubbornness and habit.

But that's not so bad. Especially if you love each other.

 

[eastern sun]

thanking Evil Geoff for his rant

There, I feel better, even if the message only reaches one person then I've
done some good.[/B][/COLOR]

Wonderful! You are, of course, right, as usual.

I am grinning from ear to ear because my original question begged to be released from responsibility, because I have a long history of wanting to avoid responsibility. . .

But what I've learned through this particular thread has been fascinating -

when I was a child and young woman, I was such a "people-pleaser" I actually lost sight of myself, my desires and my needs, seeing my entire worth reflected in the look in someone else's eyes

having discovered the inherent balance in that situation, I then set about to discover who "I" was, and defended myself against any intrusion by someone else's "agenda"

and I learned that I like pleasing people (among other things)

but resist doing it for fear of losing sight of my "self"

even while I crave the dissolution of the ego-bound "self" that occurs when I really am pleasing and serving others

I think too much. Thanks for humoring me.

(Who needs therapy when there's literotica. . .)

 

[Kailey_86]

while i agree most of the time that Master has the final decision, in an 'argument' we kind of step outside of our D/s dynamic, not so much that i mean we are not long D/s but that we are on 'equal' footing and are able to express our concerns to each other (especially me) without feeling like i'm lesser than Him and that my feelings don't matter. i guess He does have the final decision but i know He'll make it with my thoughts and feelings in mind and usually there is a compromise.....as to the answer of the original questions, i agree that both parties are responsible for their part in the relationship.....just my two cents

The same goes for J and i. We both step back and discuss our thoughts and feelings on a matter when we don't agree. We might be able to compromise and create a win-win situation which would be best but if we cannot agree, He will make the final decision.