The Golden Rule and BDSM

[TypicalDeviant]

It's probably the semantics that are bothering me about this, or at least, I hope it's the semantics bothering me about this.

The way I'm reading much of this thread is that mutual respect isn't a fundamental part of a bdsm relationship, and that just rubs me the wrong way. I'm not letting someone who doesn't respect me beat me, or tie me up, or set me on fire. Nor could I respect someone who doesn't respect me. Respect is about recognizing the value in another human being. About acknowledging their worth and your own. Bdsm without respect to me sounds like abuse. If a PYL can't respect a pyl than why should the PYL in question respect their limits? And vice versa. A pyl who doesn't respect a PYL is putting themselves in a unhealthy relationship, one I hope a PYL would be weary of.

I think the perspective of the vanilla world is that bdsm is an unequal exchange. I didn't think as many practitioners thought of it that way.

Oh, it was definitely a matter of semantics and poor phrasing on my part. Mutual respect is key in ALL relationships, but as others have said (and better than I can), sometimes people want to be respected through a lack of respect.

Don't worry, we're on the same page.

 

[Soumis]

Oh, it was definitely a matter of semantics and poor phrasing on my part. Mutual respect is key in ALL relationships, but as others have said (and better than I can), sometimes people want to be respected through a lack of respect.

Don't worry, we're on the same page.

I thought it might be the wording.

 

[CutieMouse]

In intimate relationships I refer to this as a Positive Feedback Loop (PFL) - he meets my needs; I meet his. Everybody wins.

In more casual relationships (co-workers, etc) I call it Blatant Self Interest (BSI) - I get what I need by giving others what they need. Everybody wins.

Living in a win/win world [mentality] generally makes life a little easier on the peaceful/happiness scale.

 

[Stella_Omega]

In intimate relationships I refer to this as a Positive Feedback Loop (PFL) - he meets my needs; I meet his. Everybody wins.

In more casual relationships (co-workers, etc) I call it Blatant Self Interest (BSI) - I get what I need by giving others what they need. Everybody wins.

Living in a win/win world [mentality] generally makes life a little easier on the peaceful/happiness scale.

Well put!

 

[Seurat]

(Blatant misquote from Richard Bach) I read a book where the author describes how the golden rules doesn't work.

Treat others the way you would want to be treated is really not all that functional. What if the person in question is a masochist: should he go around beating on everybody, since that is the way he wants to be treated? And woe betide the worshippper of the crocodile god, whose greatest glory would be to be sacrificed live to the crocodile god. The people around him may be a little suspect in his intentions.

Much like the platinum rule above, treat people the way they want to be treated.





Crap, now I got to dig that book out again.

 

[Stella_Omega]

(Blatant misquote from Richard Bach)...

Crap, now I got to dig that book out again.

Don't subject yourself to the sugar-poisoning of Richard Bach on our account!

 

[Ravenwind]

I was raised to use the Golden Rule as a yardstick to measure my behavior.
...
What do you think? How do you apply the Golden Rule in BDSM?

Simply put, 'love your brother as you would be loved yourself'... Everyone wants to be treated "good" (erm, in the respective manner that pleases the individual). If you want to be treated "good", then treat those around you "good".

While a gift of a pet snake would utterly make my day (and therefore be "good"), but pollen-laden flowers would ruin it (and would be "bad"), and for my mom-in-law, the reverse would be true... to apply the golden rule, I'd give her the flowers, and she would (hypothetically) give me the snake. Reversing it would show a disregard of one another's wants and sensibilities (her fear of snakes, and my allergies to pollen), and therefore violates the Golden Rule.

So, as applied to BDSM, my Husband knows that using teeth on me is treating me "good", and I know that not using teeth on him is treating him "good". So, we give what is "good" to one another. Reversing it would be treating each other "bad", and would therefore violate the Golden Rule.

Make sense? ^_^

 

[radepor]

Whad I miss?

I freely admit I only scanned most of the thread.

Perhaps this is heresy; but, screw the golden rule. Where is love in this equation?

Is love in the equation? Wouldn't love tell you when you're being too rough or too gentle? Wouldn't love make you sensitive to your partners feelings?

Could the Golden Rule provides those clues? Or, is it only good for those occasions/people you don't love?

I was raised to use the Golden Rule as a yardstick to measure my behavior.

But it's not that simple in these BDSM relationships.

For instance, I believe in mutual respect in long-term D/s relationships. But does that mean I always want to be treated with respect? Do I obey my husband, because I believe he should obey me? Should I hit him, because I want him to hit me?

And what about s & m relationships? Does the sadist inflict pain, because s/he wants pain? Does the masochist receive it, because s/he wants to give it?

I'd been thinking about this, before it was brought up in the "ethics" thread. I don't think it means we should throw out the Golden Rule. I still think it's a valuable yardstick. But . . .

What do you think? How do you apply the Golden Rule in BDSM?

 

[YourCaptor]

That thread title made me laugh.

Nice