The Role of the sub

[Sandia]

quote:
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Originally posted by Sandia


Do you think people who are passive-aggressive, or just plain aggressive, are not true subs?
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I don't think it's that cut-and-dry.

As Cym says...."strength in submission".

It takes a conscious, whole person to truly give themselves to another, in my view.

Anyone who is outwardly passive-aggressive and/or uses indirect aggression to express themselves gives me pause to wonder about how whole they are....because often as not, the passive aggressive indirect behind the back stuff is "seen" by everyone except the perpetrator, who, like a liar, is only lying to or hurting him/her self.

So, when I see certain behaviors here from some who loudly say they are sub, I wonder...and worry about them and whoever should be so unlucky to be bedding them.

This is different from a real submissive that is whole, articulate and expressive....a point that often was totally lost in the foam and lathering at the mouths of those who felt "attacked" or "defensive" in the discussion.

Lance

 

[A Desert Rose]

a little Shakespeare...

the lady doth protest too much....

Rose

P.S. I know a few sonnets, too

 

[redelicious]

I like to think of myself as strong, independent, etc. I know I have that submissive side. It would take a very special, stong person for me to submit totally too, and I long for that.

I guess I have been lucky. All of the Doms I have talked with about this have appreciated my strength. In a way, my strength makes the relationship stronger - he challenges me and I challenge him - not in a disrespectful way, but in a way that encourages growth.

The only possible problem I have run into is when people suggest that I might possibly be a switch due to my personality. LOL.

 

[Rubyfruit]

Sandia, thanks for quoting that prior response from Lance. I think he made an excellent point.

Now, I have a question for you kind people here. As far as my interactions here on this board, do you think my personality is dominant or submissive?

I get the feeling from women in this thread, and on others of a similar vein, that they are saying they are dominant/aggressive
because the alternative is somehow bad. The term doormat has been used a lot.

I consider myself submissive in my daily interactions with the world, in part because I tend to avoid conflict, am comfortable with my partner being in charge of major decisions, etc., but I have no problem taking care of myself or stating an unpopular opinion.

 

[Never]

I think there’s a huge difference between being a doormat and being submissive. I think there’s a huge difference between being aggressive and being dominant. I also think that the same person can be a doormat in some regards, submissive in others, aggressive at times, and end up being the dominant partner. Of course, I think that because I consider myself to fit that description pretty well.

It’s easy to stick people in boxes but it’s hard to actually make them fit.

 

[zipman]

Sandia, thanks for quoting that prior response from Lance. I think he made an excellent point.

<snip>
I get the feeling from women in this thread, and on others of a similar vein, that they are saying they are dominant/aggressive
because the alternative is somehow bad. The term doormat has been used a lot.

I consider myself submissive in my daily interactions with the world, in part because I tend to avoid conflict, am comfortable with my partner being in charge of major decisions, etc., but I have no problem taking care of myself or stating an unpopular opinion.

I don't think the opposite of dominant/aggressive is bad. And based on the last paragraph in your post, I would definitely say that you are not a doormat.

 

[Rubyfruit]

It’s easy to stick people in boxes but it’s hard to actually make them fit.

Good point.

Edited to add:

Zip, I agree. It's just been my perception by what people have posted.

 

[redelicious]

Sandia, thanks for quoting that prior response from Lance. I think he made an excellent point.

Now, I have a question for you kind people here. As far as my interactions here on this board, do you think my personality is dominant or submissive?

I get the feeling from women in this thread, and on others of a similar vein, that they are saying they are dominant/aggressive
because the alternative is somehow bad. The term doormat has been used a lot.

I consider myself submissive in my daily interactions with the world, in part because I tend to avoid conflict, am comfortable with my partner being in charge of major decisions, etc., but I have no problem taking care of myself or stating an unpopular opinion.

You know Ruby, I honestly have no idea and wouldn't feel comfortable judging anyway.

If you are comfortable and are accepted by the people close to you, well that's all that really matters.

 

[Persephone36]

Before I started to get a bit cranky earlier on -- I was going to try to bring up the point that Ruby is getting around to.

Perhaps not quite the same way. But maybe we're getting around to the same point.

Let's just put it this way. There is a whole breadth and wealth to the complexity to each person's personality.

NO ONE can be assigned to some small box and limited to that. And none of these things are either or.

If someone makes a judgment of you that isn't to your taste -- what are you going to do? Believe them, or believe your own opinion? Assert for everyone to *know* and be convinced that you're clearly one way or another and that there's no room to be a bit from column A one day, a bit from column B another -- and that in different areas of your life you behave differently?

I've seen very outwardly strong, confident people with healthy self-esteems become angry, insecure and passive-aggressive when put back in their parents' household for a holiday.

None of these things is cut and dried.

What is a woman with great intelligence and confident and healthy self-esteem to another is a woman with a superiority complex, a bully, a bitch, pig-headed, self-righteous -- it goes on and on.

To each their own.

I'm not going to turn around and play reverse judgments games because I *assume* I'm being judged. Or try to fit myself into *anyone's* definition as to what I am and what I should be. To me that's a waste of time.

But then again, everyone else can be however they like.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Sandia, thanks for quoting that prior response from Lance. I think he made an excellent point.

Now, I have a question for you kind people here. As far as my interactions here on this board, do you think my personality is dominant or submissive?

I would never presume to label you, or anyone else. And I would hope that others here would be as respectful of me.

Rose

 

[Red Menace]

I like to think of myself as strong, independent, etc. I know I have that submissive side. It would take a very special, stong person for me to submit totally too, and I long for that.

I guess I have been lucky. All of the Doms I have talked with about this have appreciated my strength. In a way, my strength makes the relationship stronger - he challenges me and I challenge him - not in a disrespectful way, but in a way that encourages growth.

The only possible problem I have run into is when people suggest that I might possibly be a switch due to my personality. LOL.

I'm the same way. Similar name, too. Hmmm... are you me? Am I you?

Now, I have a question for you kind people here. As far as my interactions here on this board, do you think my personality is dominant or submissive?

I guess that would depend on what you consider a "Dominant" personality. Is outgoing and vocal synonamous with Dominant? Is it completely at odds with being submissive? I don't think so. I think it takes a lot of strength and willpower to be able to submit everything to another person. The sub had better darn well have some kind of strength of character or how will the Dom ever know they are truly submitting or just being used as a doormat.

I like to think of your personality as assertive as opposed to aggressive or Dominant. Assertive knows what it wants and isn't going to let anyone take advantage, is able to articulate feelings and desires, and is unafraid to be heard. And IMHO is not at all mutually exclusive with being submissive.

 

[Sandia]

Sandia, thanks for quoting that prior response from Lance. I think he made an excellent point.

Now, I have a question for you kind people here. As far as my interactions here on this board, do you think my personality is dominant or submissive?

I get the feeling from women in this thread, and on others of a similar vein, that they are saying they are dominant/aggressive
because the alternative is somehow bad. The term doormat has been used a lot.

I consider myself submissive in my daily interactions with the world, in part because I tend to avoid conflict, am comfortable with my partner being in charge of major decisions, etc., but I have no problem taking care of myself or stating an unpopular opinion.

Dominant! lol.

You come off as a very open, free-spirited person, without a lotta fear of what other people are gonna think.

Those are good things.

 

[Sandia]

I think there’s a huge difference between being a doormat and being submissive. I think there’s a huge difference between being aggressive and being dominant. I also think that the same person can be a doormat in some regards, submissive in others, aggressive at times, and end up being the dominant partner. Of course, I think that because I consider myself to fit that description pretty well.

It’s easy to stick people in boxes but it’s hard to actually make them fit.

I've never liked the appellation "doormat."

To me it reeks of insulting somebody for being nice. There are sweet, caring people in the world who naturally look to someone else's feelings before their own. If there were more of them, the world would be a better place.

I agree entirely with this: It’s easy to stick people in boxes but it’s hard to actually make them fit.

 

[Lancecastor]

It’s easy to stick people in boxes but it’s hard to actually make them fit.

That's why I generally use bags.

Ha!

I see Ruby as more sub than Domme , myself...she is extroverted and articulate, but most often takes a supporting and nurturing role in her postings. Plus, she is very feminine, and I tend to see feminine women as sub potentials moreso than less feminine women...but that's just me.

Ruby, I hope it's okay that I speak of you in this way.

As for the "Role" of a sub...a sub's role is to fulfill herself and be the most self-actualized woman she can be.

L

 

[Rubyfruit]

No, I don't mind, Lance.

I appreciate everybody who gave their views. It's interesting to see how people feel about this issue.

 

[MissTaken]

I would like to add that I think many individuals who are assertive and outgoing in their daily lives by need or necessity enjoy the relief provided by submission.

i.e. The CEO who seeks out a pro Domme or a relationship with a Domme.

Many of the women here are just that, whether by vocation or life circumstance, they need to be very much in control of their daily lives. Teachers, single parents are two of the things that come to mind.

This forum wasn't built on the premise that we enter the forum "in role," so perhaps we use more of assertiveness to communicate than we would if we were personally involved with someone. We dont' need to request that we be given "voice", as in some IRC chats. We have it upon entering. Being at lit doesn't place my thinking into "submissive mode" other than to exert my helping nature. So if I am angry or frustrated, I vocalize it.

We learn the skill of assertiveness to survive and utilize it here when we feel we need to.

I know I do.

 

[Sandia]

Sub and dom are poorly defined words. I doubt people mean the same things when they use them.

 

[A Desert Rose]

I think you are absolutely correct, Sandia.

It's all in perceptions and previous life experiences and such.

Rose

 

[artful]

Ruby

As for the "Role" of a sub...a sub's role is to fulfill herself and be the most self-actualized woman she can be.
L

Just want you to know,...I agree with this statement that Lance made.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Re: A Perspective

Trying to come up with words that describe the feeling I get when an otherwise dominant personality will willingly surrender herself to me, not only sexually, but emotionally as well, is beyond my capabilities. It's something I know is both fulfilling for her and for me.
Talk about a power exchange. All the love and respect that she gives me goes right back to her in my Dominance and I have never been able to describe that to vanilla friends.
I guess that makes me power hungry.
hmmmm....

I have read this thread several times and this post is the one that keeps resonating with me.

Here is a Dom who speaks so elequantly, dare I say, romantically about his relationship. You are two lucky people.

Rose

 

[lavender]

 

[Lancecastor]

I would agree as well. But, I would alter it a bit. Her role is to be the most self-actualized person she can be.

I would agree with me as well. But, I would alter what you said a bit. The Person's role is to be the most self-actualized person he/she/it/sheep/llama/cantaloupe can be.

 

[MissTaken]

Isn't that true of both Dom/me and sub?

Their role or even, responsibility is to be or become the most self actualized people they can be?

And isn't the role also to assist their partner to become so? To provide support, encouragement, and assist their partner in their growth?


The original statement isn't sub exclusive.

 

[Sandia]

Self-actualized cantaloupes are no fuckin' fun, man.

 

[Sandia]

<Looks at MissT's AV>
Never mind.