Time, satisfaction and vote sabotage

[SimonDoom]

My only advice, which is probably not helpful at all, is to not view the H-threshold as a line demarcating success and failure. It might indicate a high level of excellence, but you already know some people loved it, and that seems like a more valuable indication of a successful effort to me.
Best wishes!

Absolutely, this. Scores reflect a variety of factors, some of which have little or nothing to do with quality.

I would add to this that if you just keep writing, write mostly for your own personal satisfaction, and also try writing different kinds of stories, over time you will care less about scores. Satisfaction can come in many ways. I feel this way now that I've written almost 60 stories. I have derived as much satisfaction from those with scores under 4.5 as from those with scores over that number.

 

[PrincessArianrhod]

Many thanks all for the balanced responses. My own conclusion is I need to just remember why I write and submit here and grow a thicker skin. The lure of ratings currency is an easy trap to fall into but it isn't our raison d'etre.

 

[Bamagan]

Many thanks all for the balanced responses. My own conclusion is I need to just remember why I write and submit here and grow a thicker skin. The lure of ratings currency is an easy trap to fall into but it isn't our raison d'etre.

Nope, we're here to be shriveled but tasty snacks!

Or possibly I'm insane.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

to not view the H-threshold as a line demarcating success and failure. It might indicate a high level of excellence

Actually no it doesn't at all. The voting system on lit is about as useful as a screen door on a submarine, instant water just add water, the proverbial tits on a bull. There is no set criteria so everyone has their own. Like Altissimus points out, one reader's 4 is another's 1 (yet he still fusses over his scores!). Some people vote for overall quality. Some people vote for sheer enjoyment. Some people vote very judgementally and will vote you up or down solely on whether they agree with how you presented your kinks. The majority of the readers likely don't even care about plot, in fact will down vote you if you have too much of it getting in the way of the stroking. Many readers can't even detect a proper subject and it's predicate, let alone identify a misplaced modifier. The same quality work will score wildly different simply by being in a different category, ffs!

Your score tells you absolutely nothing about how good your work is, with the exception of novels/novellas which it tells you with only the vaguest of hazy general ballpark accuracy.

 

[Bramblethorn]

The bombing continues and I woke up this morning to check my dashboard to see if my last submission has been published only to see my little attempt to please a few people has once again been bombed back to 4.48. They'll stop there, no, doubt, seeing as its also lost its coveted red H.

Sorry to hear that. LS is mostly a fairly friendly category but nowhere is completely free from jerks.

If your story's being targeted, one thing you can do is use the "report story" button and ask Laurel to take a look at the voting on it. This has been what she's requested on previous occasions when I've messaged her about voting shenanigans.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Stepping into the riff-raff's temple? Set your expectations lower. A notably high rating doesn't necessarily indicate value. If it truly held worth, you wouldn't be offering it for free.

^ an opinion offered for free

 

[jsmiam]

Just curious what the vote count is?

Within the very early life of a story, there are wild fluctuations, some of it is normal, and some of it nefarious. Importantly, the votes are not all or always nefarious, some of it is the yea/no good/bad black/white no gray world we live in. Nonetheless, no need to pretend nefarious things don’t happen too.

You are also experiencing a double whammy, since your score (a second reason I’m curious about your vote count) puts you in the “toplist” stratosphere, where there a second category of voting shenanigans takes place, whether it’s personally a competing author or a committed fan who wants you out of their way. It definitely is also something that happens to toplist dwellers.

In both cases, time and more votes build up some protection from shenanigans. As far as how to cope, keep writing. Your talents have spoken, speak, and will continue to speak for themselves.

 

[Djmac1031]

Appreciate the responses. I know this is a phenomenon, maybe I'm just too sensitive. My question was more about maintaining motivation in the face of low interest/negative rating and feedback. I guess there is no way to avoid being a target sometimes even if you try not to upset anyone.

If you want my honest opinion, I'll give it:

I think you're attaching WAY to much importance to your rating. Especially the "coveted Red H."

4.46 isn't a terrible score. Not even close to terrible. Neither is 4.41.

It's quite respectable.

From what I'm reading you have a small but loyal and respectful fan base who willingly invests their time to read your stories even if some are quite long.

And while not many, the feedback has been positive, correct?

If your story went from a 4.97 to, say, UNDER 4 in a very short period of time, then I'd say you have a troll problem.

To me it sounds like you have stories up that MOST readers enjoy, with the occasional unappreciative reader or yes, perhaps troll, trashing them once in awhile.

To which I say: welcome to LE. Because we're all in that club.

 

[AchtungNight]

A few thoughts based on current responses.

- A quality story is still a quality story, no matter its rating.

- Do not differentiate between a story offered for free vs one offered for pay when it comes to quality product. I have found as much vile disgusting smut in free products as I have products for which I had to pay. There are also plenty of ways to get around paywalls. Libraries, have a friend loan you a book, wait for value to decrease, computer hacking, five finger discount, to name a few. I put an epic amount of work into my writing and it has never been behind a paywall. Please do not insult me by saying it should be. I have a more satisfying high paying job already and not all writers can comfortably go pro!

Yeah, the Spice Girls did put out a lot of awful music. Still fun to imagine them entangled in a lesbian puppy pile even though they’re all outside the spotlight now. Hmmm… no, not doing that. Too much respect for the women behind the muses and fan interest has probably declined over time anyway. Oh well.

Keep giving my stories a low amount of votes and feedback, readers. At least I know you’re looking. I hope you are, right?

I’m a human pervert, haters! There are many like me. My name is Everyman and I am Legion! You make me think of an old song- https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/bloodhoundgang/jackass.html. “If you knew me like I know myself, you'd hate me like I hate myself. Hate yourself! Hate yourself! You can out the lesbian Spice Girl. You can try to run game on the ODB! You can kick every douche bag off The Real World but you won’t get rid of me!” [Ach’s grinning muse appears beside him in a Lady Death costume and smirks as she shows him a clock.] Right, back to more important things than a random message board post.

 

[AchtungNight]

Favorite lines from that song of which I am still thinking-

Got no rabbit in this hat
'Cause I'm pullin' it out my ass
Ain't Sigfried or Roy but I could be
Makin' magic with the pussy.

 

[KeithD]

So we all have one thing in common: We spend our valuable time creating erotic fictions for denizens of Literotica to enjoy (or not) for free. Our currency is attention, preferably positive, in the form of feedback.

I handle it by stopping short of this. My goal is to get it out there accessible by readers. I don't pay much attention to it after that. Therefore, if I get response in the form of views/ratings/comments, that's all on top of what my expectations are, which is just to get it out and accessible to the large readership here. That saves a lot of frustration and grief. By the time there is response, I'm well into my next offering.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

There are plenty of people here telling you to write and not care about scores and I am 100% behind that sentiment. Yet scores do have some importance. For some, scores are a measure of the success of their stories, some even consider them a measure of their skill as a writer. I don't belong in that group but I don't see any problems with their view either. We all find our own interpretation of these things, often trying to reinforce our own motivation to write and the satisfaction we get from writing.
All that being said, scores also have one very much objective quality. They influence the number of views and the attention you will get from readers, maybe even their opinion of the story to a degree (when one is reading a story with a 4.9 score, one might find it suggestive) I don't think I've ever seen anyone here claiming the irrelevance of scores in that regard as all our collective experience says that readers, among other things, use scores as a way to sift through the huge amount of stories in the Lit database. Plainly speaking, the higher the score of your story, the likelier it is that the story will be read, regardless of the theme and kinks of the story. That is why some (many) among us still find them important and why we fret about them, regardless of our opinion of scores being a true measure of anything.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Gauge the success of your stories here over the long-haul. The system and readers are too fickle to do otherwise.

Another option for those who might question their story's true merit is to post it on other sites besides Lit. If the responses there are significantly different, then that tells the tale.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Another option for those who might question their story's true merit is to post it on other sites besides Lit. If the responses there are significantly different, then that tells the tale.

To some degree, certainly. I wouldn't be surprised however if other sites attracted a different readership, have a different scoring system/philosophy, are more specialized or focused, etc. Any of those could skew scores. WYSIWYG.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

To some degree, certainly. I wouldn't be surprised however if other sites attracted a different readership, have a different scoring system/philosophy, are more specialized or focused, etc. Any of those could skew scores. WYSIWYG.

True, but a different readership providing feedback in the form of scoring or comments would provide a comparative perspective for a writer who is concerned about the response on only one site.

 

[JuanSeiszFitzHall]

You need a 100 votes for all time, but I don't believe the 30 day list has a minumum

In Humor & Satire, six votes are enough for a story to be eligible for the 30-day Top List, and eleven votes are enough for the 12-month. The amounts may be different in higher-traffic categories. The fact that I know this may be taken to indicate that my interest in ratings is unhealthy, although I maintain that I'm also curious about how the site works, and the decisions made within it.

 

[Djmac1031]

In Humor & Satire, six votes are enough for a story to be eligible for the 30-day Top List, and eleven votes are enough for the 12-month. The amounts may be different in higher-traffic categories. The fact that I know this may be taken to indicate that my interest in ratings is unhealthy, although I maintain that I'm also curious about how the site works, and the decisions made within it.

Ya know, I've never honestly checked any of those lists. Not even sure where to find them lol.

I'll have to investigate. Out of curiosity.

 

[Trionyx]

With so few votes, this one is easy to target, of course.

We all share your pain. However, remember that with few votes overall, a four star vote can drag down the average very easily. Several fours in a row can have a similar effect to a single one bomb. Only if you check your votes frequently can you determine what actually happened.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Several fours in a row can have a similar effect to a single one bomb

Here's another myth. There is no such thing as a single one bomb. There are a whole bunch of whiners here that think that any 1-vote is a bomb. "My story was 4.75 this morning and now it's down to 4.68. I got a 1-bomb!" No, you didn't. You got a single 1-vote. Boo fucking hoo! Whiners like this think that there is no possible way that they could get a legitimate 1 from someone. GET OVER YOURSELF! A 1-bomb is multiple 1s given for spite, jealousy or some other reason that absolutely nothing to do with the quality of your work, whether it's someone on multiple accounts trying to knock you down the list or multiple people in a coordinated (or effectively coordinated) effort like the BtBs for instance.

 

[Trionyx]

Here's another myth. There is no such thing as a single one bomb. There are a whole bunch of whiners here that think that any 1-vote is a bomb. "My story was 4.75 this morning and now it's down to 4.68. I got a 1-bomb!" No, you didn't. You got a single 1-vote.

I stand corrected. I should have said: Several fours in a row can have a similar effect to a single one VOTE. The message was, however, in the math and not the semantics.

 

[MillieDynamite]

As I was typing that, it's dropped again to 4.41, so I guess they aren't done yet...

A sweep will carry that away in the future. Take s and check again in the morning.

 

[KachinaDoll]

Well, your post achieved one thing - I went and read your story Nature vs Nurture. I absolutely loved it. You gained 5* and a follower.

 

[ronde]

So we all have one thing in common: We spend our valuable time creating erotic fictions for denizens of Literotica to enjoy (or not) for free. Our currency is attention, preferably positive, in the form of feedback. We watch with interest and a sense of intellectual satisfaction as our freshly posted stories gather momentum, wishing to capture the imagination of our readership, teasing their fantasies in the hope we'll gather votes and comments that let us deem the time taken to write them worth spending. It is our only reward.

Despite gathering a small following with my limited collection of niche lesbian stories, they don't get many views and correspondingly few comments and votes. That's fine, the feedback I receive is largely positive and thus far, it has seemed a hobby worth continuing.

Then I pushed the boat out and wrote and 37k word story that carried itself away. It received positive feedback, though even less votes and comments than my previous stories. Several of the comments requested a follow up to expand on one of the "bit-part" characters whose plight seemed to have inspired sympathy from the readers. I duly wrote one, managing another 17k words to flesh the character out and give her a happy ending.

Thus far, the follow-up had had nearly 6k views but very few votes and comments. Again, that's fine; I was writing it pretty much for the people who requested it, as well as for my own satisfaction. The votes it did have had it sitting at 4.95 average. That's my pat on the head, thank you.

Then begins the vote sabotage.... A few votes and it bombed. Yeah ok, it happens. The vote count continues to rise and the average starts to rise with it. Then a few votes disappear, a site sweep I guess, and the average shoots back to 4.97. Nice.

The bombing continues and I woke up this morning to check my dashboard to see if my last submission has been published only to see my little attempt to please a few people has once again been bombed back to 4.48. They'll stop there, no, doubt, seeing as its also lost its coveted red H.

I'm well aware there are spiteful people and I'm familiar with the concept of toxic envy but how do you guys deal with situations like this? Its clearly a campaign against that particular story since my others seem unaffected. With so few votes, this one is easy to target, of course. I can't change that, I have few followers, etc etc... but it has left me wondering what the point is and why its happening in the first place. My stories are niche and are all in the lesbian category. I'm fairly innocuous in the community, have made no enemies that I'm aware of, have no overtly negative reviews on any of my small collections of stories. So why am I a target? How do I motivate myself to ignore it?

[/short story long]

Just a couple thoughts.

I've never thought it is a good idea to write a second story based on requests. Yes, reading that some reader wants more is flattering, but actually doing it can be a difficult thing to achieve. The reason is that for each request, that person has an idea of what they want to read in the second installment, and they're all probably a little different. If you miss that idea, sometimes even by a little, you either won't get a vote or the vote you get won't be very high. The chances of encompassing all the ideas in one story are pretty slim. There's also a strong possibility that the way a reader wants the story to read is something you're not comfortable writing, and if that's the case, you'll fail.

The other problem with second installments is any author will tend to assume the reader of the second will have already read the first and will unintentionally leave out some character and plot information that's pretty vital to the second. The reader reading the second without reading the first may be so confused they give you a love vote if they vote at all.

My second thought is stop concerning yourself about the rating and number of votes. Write what you want to write the way you want to write it and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

This perfectly sums things up for me. Yes, it's best to write for ourselves and then be happy if others enjoy our works, more if they actually take five seconds to actually rate a story after completing it, and more again if they take the additional time to leave a comment.

We can write for ourselves all we want, but there is quite a bit of satisfaction in knowing that others enjoy those stories.



I've notices that the fewer number of followers an Author has results in fewer reads, or whatever metric you'd like to call the number next to views. It takes quite a few stories, and also the category you post stories in to start attracting followers. When starting out, it's difficult because it can easily feel like it's just not worth the effort.



37k words and however many hours it took to type it all out, only to get fewer votes, or comments when it seems like that kind of story would definitely make a bigger impact, that's a damned shame.



Congrats, 4.95 for any amount of time is definitely something to be proud of.



Sabotage feels like the perfect description. I'd guess this kind of thing has been happening forever here. It's not fixed, and I have no reason to believe it ever will be.



I have no evidence to support this theory, but I'm convinced that other Authors are at least partially responsible for downvoting other stories. That's not to say it's always jealous Authors, and look I may be totally wrong. I just don't think so.



I'm at the point where I've lost much of the motivation I've had to write here. I know that my writing has improved since my first story. I've spent considerably more time editing and just going back and looking for weak spots, bits of the story that need more detail and sometimes less detail, but it doesn't matter. If the perfect story, for a given category were ever published here, there would still be the inevitable trolls here that would downvote it.

It is what it is. I hope you find a way to make sense of it, but the current system here is broken.

Damn, I love your name

 

[pink_silk_glove]

It's easy to say, but not so easy to practice.
As the OP stated, these stories are going up and and providing readers with huge amounts of free erotic fiction. 'Payment' for those efforts doesn't have to be 5 star ratings, but come on.. I have numerous stories in highly-trafficked categories that have 1-2 comments and many thousands of views. Even if I remove all ego and care less about ratings, at the end of the day or month or whatever amount of time, if simply writing the story should be it's own reward then why bother uploading it to a site that offers the ability to rate and comment?

So the only thing wrong with your stories is the audience then?

Ask yourself this honestly? Why do your readers or potential readers owe you anything?