Tired Tropes

[Areala-chan]

I've been surprised at some of the strong negative feedback to mother-daughter stories in IT, even though they are quite rare. I've also seen on other stories and myself received negative feedback about lesbian activity between sisters (full sisters, stepsisters) and female cousins. I haven't seen an aunt-niece story for some time, not sure how feedback would be there.

Admittedly I only have two stories in the category, but both are sister/sister and neither one received any blowback from commenters. Closest I've seen was one who hoped I'd write a sequel where another family member got involved, but I don't consider that 'negative' per se, and it's a pretty common ask judging by other comments on other stories.

They tend to crop up in Lesbian Sex every now and then and seem to do quite well. I'm not a huge fan myself, though will read a stepsister story (and have written one). They certainly seem to find an audience there.

Never would have occurred to me to try and slip a step-sister or cousins story into LS. Buuuuuuut...

 

[Britva415]

Regarding "gay incest" (brother-brother, sister-sister, etc):

I'm not an I/T reader or fan, but, I bet these are unpopular there because they completely remove the "risk of fertilization" part from the incest scenario.

This would explain why these stories do better in the Gay or Lesbian categories - those readers aren't expecting to have that button pushed.

 

[yowser]

Regarding "gay incest" (brother-brother, sister-sister, etc):

I'm not an I/T reader or fan, but, I bet these are unpopular there because they completely remove the "risk of fertilization" part from the incest scenario.

This would explain why these stories do better in the Gay or Lesbian categories - those readers aren't expecting to have that button pushed.

An interesting observation. I'm not a regular IT writer or reader, just a couple stories dropped in there, but in following up your point, I thought I would see how many IT stories (a category twice the size of GM and almost three times the size of Lesbian) had 'impregnation' as a key word (somewhere in the text or title).

259 stories! 908 with 'impregnation' as a tag! I'm astounded.

 

[mirafrida]

Tropes are tropes for a reason, and I often find myself wanting to write one - while at the same time shying away based on the doubt that I have anything original to add.

So I guess that's one issue I continue to ponder - what does it mean to "add a fresh take" to a trope? Are there parameters to what this "originality" has to look like to really count as originality? Is simply writing the story well, in your own voice, with solidly-developed characters and some basis in plausibility enough?

Of course like most things, there is never going to be a single correct answer to such questions. Each reader and writer will negotiate them for themselves. But it's something I find interesting.

 

[lovecraft68]

Regarding "gay incest" (brother-brother, sister-sister, etc):

I'm not an I/T reader or fan, but, I bet these are unpopular there because they completely remove the "risk of fertilization" part from the incest scenario.

This would explain why these stories do better in the Gay or Lesbian categories - those readers aren't expecting to have that button pushed.

But within the 'gay incest' also lies the standard erotic/porn double standard. Mother/daughter or sisters gets more favorable responses than father/son or brothers for the same reason lesbian porn is far more viewed than gay porn. Most people don't seem to mind two women-my wife has no interest in women but will watch girl/girl scenes from time to time because she finds them erotic-but other than gay men, no one watches gay men, or reads them.

The GI also suffers from the damned if you do, damned if you don't choice of where the hell does it go? They don't like Incest in GM, and no one likes GM out of GM, and again, you can get a bit more leeway with sisters in lesbian but not by a lot more.

 

[THBGato]

but other than gay men, no one watches gay men, or reads them.

Actually, a LOT of women will read gay romance. You're probably right about porn, but when it comes to reading, lots of women readers are into MLM love stories. Just look at the success of Song of Achilles, In Memoriam, or Heartstopper.

 

[lovecraft68]

Actually, a LOT of women will read gay romance. You're probably right about porn, but when it comes to reading, lots of women readers are into MLM love stories. Just look at the success of Song of Achilles, In Memoriam, or Heartstopper.

Yeah, I was drifting more towards visual porn with that comment.

GM and Lesbian have a common denominator in how many women are writing/reading GM and how many men are writing/reading Lesbian.

But I was also thinking in terms of taboo being involved in my comment. I've done some mom/daughter scenes and they go over well. My one attempt at having a male family member be bi was torched so badly it made the LW readership look friendly.

 

[RejectReality]

There may be some blowback/disinterest for F/F same sex as the whole story, but I've never seen anything of the like where there's also a male involved. Probably lends some credence to the potential pregnancy angle. There are a lot of people who seem to want that in the category.

M/M suffers as it does in any other category other than GM, where Incest suffers ( Though not quite as badly as in other categories. Because M/M is so badly treated everywhere else on the site, the readership of GM is a little more tolerant of cross-genre stuff from what I've seen and has been reported by authors who do a lot of writing in the category )

 

[alohadave]

I/T commenters love their family impregnation fetish. Every single one of mine has at least one comment mentioning it.

Not sure if I'd consider that a trope itself, or just a cliche.

 

[APilgrimSquare]

I/T relies on tropes/cliches because the concept is generally implausible. It would take a lot of work to convince readers that the characters would suddenly be willing to break this universal taboo without relying on shorthand.

Characters need either a shock (e.g. "I saw/felt my brother's dick and now can't stop thinking about it") or some innate characteristic (e.g. "mom had become an insatiable slut after dad left her for a younger woman") in order to credibly suggest they would be open to breaking the taboo in the first place. Particularly talented writers might find a new spin on these elements, but most writers are happy to rely on tropes to suspend disbelief, and focus on the rest of the story elements that interest them.

 

[NotWise]

I/T relies on tropes/cliches because the concept is generally implausible. It would take a lot of work to convince readers that the characters would suddenly be willing to break this universal taboo without relying on shorthand.

Characters need either a shock (e.g. "I saw/felt my brother's dick and now can't stop thinking about it") or some innate characteristic (e.g. "mom had become an insatiable slut after dad left her for a younger woman") in order to credibly suggest they would be open to breaking the taboo in the first place. Particularly talented writers might find a new spin on these elements, but most writers are happy to rely on tropes to suspend disbelief, and focus on the rest of the story elements that interest them.

Caution. Long, retrospective post.

I don't count myself as a particularly talented writer, but I do put some effort into my stories. I have eleven stories in I/T (counting series as single stories) and they don't depend much on common tropes. It isn't that hard to come up with a way to get people together:

In chronological order:

His Father's Lover (two stories). Toby is frustrated that his Mom treats him like a child and decides to change her mind. He gives her a choice, and she accepts.

A Valentine's Day Mess (five parts). The brother and sister are orphans adopted into different families and re-introduced when they both reach the age of majority. This is a weird, complicated story. To make it short, they get along. It includes (in part III) a story from the Spanish renaissance when siblings in noble families led very separate lives. The older sister becomes her brother's ideal woman. As adults, she becomes his ward and lover. This is a polyamorous story. The brother marries his sister's friend/handmaid to cover their relationship.

Stinky and Fudd. Brother is jilted by his fiancee, and sister consoles him. Maybe this is a little cliche.

A Christmas Tart. Mother and son have a relationship that existed before the story starts. Setting it up isn't part of the story. As described, Mom comforted her son at a time of great angst. Maybe that's cliched, but it's just backstory.

Watch Me!. Sister was always infatuated with her brother. Her best friend gets them together at a time when she needs help. Polyamorous story.

Working for Mom Mother and son have a relationship that existed before the story started, so setting it up isn't part of the story. As described, it started after her divorce because she had to compete with his father for his attention. Maybe that's cliched, but it's backstory.

My Sister's Wedding. Brother and sister have a relationship that existed before the story started. It's described as a way she tried to control him when they were young that took on changing emotional aspects as they grew up. Another polyamorous story.

Sex Under Studio Lights. Son has sex with Mom's best friend. That piques Mom's interest. Polyamorous story.

Candy Shops. Halloween story. It all starts with magic candy.

Escape from Cimarron. I'm going to rewrite the ending. Older brother rescues estranged sister from a bizarre convent, and she thanks him (sorta).

Deal is a Deal (current Holiday story). Brother and sister, close all there lives, experiment and find out that they're turned on by the dirty thrill of the taboo act.

All of these but the second part of His Father's Lover, Working for Mom, and Escape from Cimarron are reasonably successful. I don't think any of the problems relate to the way the relationships are set up. One is short and ends a Mom/Son relationship (don't do that). The second only has taboo sex in the first half of the story, and it's a long story. In the third, I gutted the last sex scene to keep the story to three Lit pages. Stupid move.

I've been harboring a mom/son story idea that's different from all the above. It may never be written because it's such a downer. Mom seduces son she abandoned as a baby so that they connect just once before she kills herself.

edit: I left one out, so there are twelve.

Her Bodyguard Brother and sister are brought together by social isolation. It's a very dramatic story.

 

[RetroFan]

I/T commenters love their family impregnation fetish. Every single one of mine has at least one comment mentioning it.

Not sure if I'd consider that a trope itself, or just a cliche.

I've had this kind of feedback too, wishing for pregnancy arising from incest. I think it belongs firmly in the 'I just don't get it' file.

 

[RetroFan]

I/T relies on tropes/cliches because the concept is generally implausible. It would take a lot of work to convince readers that the characters would suddenly be willing to break this universal taboo without relying on shorthand.

Characters need either a shock (e.g. "I saw/felt my brother's dick and now can't stop thinking about it") or some innate characteristic (e.g. "mom had become an insatiable slut after dad left her for a younger woman") in order to credibly suggest they would be open to breaking the taboo in the first place. Particularly talented writers might find a new spin on these elements, but most writers are happy to rely on tropes to suspend disbelief, and focus on the rest of the story elements that interest them.

I've often had IT stories where things start with voyeurism and progress from there, although I've had complaints from readers that this takes too long and they should be in bed together on the first page.

 

[Areala-chan]

A writer friend who beta read Kendra informed me that I managed to incorporate all the tropes for a billionaire romance story. Having never read a billionaire romance story, thus being ignorant of said tropes, I wasn't sure if that was a good thing or not. He assured me it was fine. Apparently I can trope without even realizing I'm troping.

 

[RetroFan]

A writer friend who beta read Kendra informed me that I managed to incorporate all the tropes for a billionaire romance story. Having never read a billionaire romance story, thus being ignorant of said tropes, I wasn't sure if that was a good thing or not. He assured me it was fine. Apparently I can trope without even realizing I'm troping.

I've done that too in some stories, portraying events that could be supernatural or have a rational, Earth-bound explanation and it is up to readers/viewers to decide. For example, in one of my stories one of the female characters Jane is revealed to be dead all along. But whether Jane is an actual ghost, or her presence a figment of the imagination of her former boyfriend still unable to come to terms with her loss, is never disclosed. Apparently the trope for this is 'Maybe magical, maybe mundane' but I had no idea of this trope when I wrote this story or others with similar themes.

 

[Areala-chan]

You get a trope, and you get a trope, and you get a trope, everybody gets a trope!!

 

[vividlyyours]

Tropes are tropes for a reason, and I often find myself wanting to write one - while at the same time shying away based on the doubt that I have anything original to add.

So I guess that's one issue I continue to ponder - what does it mean to "add a fresh take" to a trope? Are there parameters to what this "originality" has to look like to really count as originality? Is simply writing the story well, in your own voice, with solidly-developed characters and some basis in plausibility enough?

Of course like most things, there is never going to be a single correct answer to such questions. Each reader and writer will negotiate them for themselves. But it's something I find interesting.

My objection to tropes is that they seem to be shortcuts around character or plot development. In I/T love to see siblings drawing closer to each other over time, as when an author casts the brother as the long time protector of a younger sister or vice versa, and mutual affection develops into romantic interest. While quick and dirty stories have their place, longer and more involved pieces show better writing. Just because we like smut doesn't mean we don't like quality writing.

 

[SimonDoom]

I just submitted my tropiest of all trope stories -- a story about mom and son in the backseat of a car. It should be published within a day or so.

I look forward to it taking its place in the Literotica troposphere.

 

[lovecraft68]

They key to a trope is to put your spin on it.

There are some porn tropes that at some point it seems obligatory to give them a chance in your voice.

A friend here dared me to do the infamous 'sis sees brother's big cock' trope, and my first reaction, was "Jeez, even I have standards' but they gave the argument I just posted, its stupid, but just go with it and make it yours.

I ended up mixing tropes. Little brother's not so little cock mixed with the 'accidently dosed with Viagra' schtick.

Even the title, "Oh, My God, Bro!" was done with a smirk because the whole thing was just silly to me.

But it placed in a contest so it goes to show people like tropes for a reason

 

[lovecraft68]

I just submitted my tropiest of all trope stories -- a story about mom and son in the backseat of a car. It should be published within a day or so.

I look forward to it taking its place in the Literotica troposphere.

Good luck with it, but that is the one trope I have vowed not to touch. I'm not exactly sure why, but it annoys the fuck out of me.

having said that, I would not be surprised if it doesn't turn out to be your biggest hit.

 

[SimonDoom]

Good luck with it, but that is the one trope I have vowed not to touch. I'm not exactly sure why, but it annoys the fuck out of me.

having said that, I would not be surprised if it doesn't turn out to be your biggest hit.

I get it. My biggest "hit" so far was my story about mom and son on a love seat in the living room watching TV, so I've had success already with a similar theme. I don't expect it to do quite that well. We'll see.

 

[Areala-chan]

I get it. My biggest "hit" so far was my story about mom and son on a love seat in the living room watching TV, so I've had success already with a similar theme. I don't expect it to do quite that well. We'll see.

Well, that virtually guarantees it will fly to the top list.

 

[StillStunned]

There are some porn tropes that at some point it seems obligatory to give them a chance in your voice.

A friend here dared me to do the infamous 'sis sees brother's big cock' trope, and my first reaction, was "Jeez, even I have standards' but they gave the argument I just posted, its stupid, but just go with it and make it yours.

I ended up mixing tropes. Little brother's not so little cock mixed with the 'accidently dosed with Viagra' schtick.

I have a WIP called "My Sister Loses A Bet", where the brother visits his older sister and her flatmate, they catch sight of his cock, and have a bet whether it's bigger than the biggest cock they've both experienced.

I'm not sure I'll ever finish it though. It's not even in my top 25 "I want to continue writing this" stories.

 

[NotWise]

I have a WIP called "My Sister Loses A Bet", where the brother visits his older sister and her flatmate, they catch sight of his cock, and have a bet whether it's bigger than the biggest cock they've both experienced.

I'm not sure I'll ever finish it though. It's not even in my top 25 "I want to continue writing this" stories.

I think the title would give you a lot of views.

Out of curiosity, I searched for stories with "my sister loses a bet" and was surprised to find no stories that were an exact fit to the title. There were, however, thirty-four pages of other lost-bet stories, a lot of them involving sisters.

 

[AG31]

They key to a trope is to put your spin on it.

Or to describe it really, really well.