Top/Bottom vs. Dom/me/Sub

[RisiaSkye]

There's no way I can answer this. I'm in a 24/7 long term relationship that we consider D/s in nature as well as BDSM in flavor, and we're both Switch.

People are more fluid than labels can ever be.

 

[Shadowsdream]

~It would interest Me to ask a question here that may be looking in the back door a bit.

How long into the lifestyle were you (anyone) before you felt a need to step BACK from the label that once described who you felt you were.

IF this has occurred over time?

 

[artful]

Shadows

~It would interest Me to ask a question here that may be looking in the back door a bit.

How long into the lifestyle were you (anyone) before you felt a need to step BACK from the label that once described who you felt you were.

IF this has occurred over time?

For the life of me,...I can't ever remember not wanting to be in CONTROL. From time to time,...I have looked back, reflecting on my personality, questioning it's validity, but it's WHO I am.

All my adult life, I have seen such blatant errors, on how people DO a certain thing, and have wanted to step forward and correct it.

It is a passion with me. Fortunately, LOL, I had enough sense to not do that, but the urge remained. (still does)

It was a natural, when it came to the SEXUAL aspects of controlling. I truly don't have any way of expressing just how ingrained this is to ME.

I find NO satisfaction at all in allowing anyone else to direct the activities. I am most certainly the type of man who lives the,..."If you don't wanna play MY way,...Imma packin' up my marbles and going home."

(JMHO),...but it's mine,...and I own it. Art

 

[Shadowsdream]

lol @ Art

Well done in explaining You.

I think I have gone completely off subject here so please just ignore Me. I will drift on out.

 

[artful]

Sorry to all for the unintended hijack on my part

NOW,...back to the labels,...Dream labels me her Master,...others may label me as Arrogant,...I think I wear a LOT of labels,...LMAO

 

[luvsubbbbb]

Re: Re: Top/Bottom vs. Dom/me/Sub

I am and call myself a Domme. My "ideal" is to be in a Power Exchange relationship that covers all bases; physical and mental, 24/7. One of the uses I have for labelling myself this, when I choose to, is simple; I (hopefully) won't need to get into a more lengthy explanation of myself.
This said I am in general not into labels as I find them more limiting than inspiring. Still there are some purposes that they serve, for instance as seen here on Lit when discussing different aspects of BDSM relationships. Other than that labels can also be a security signifying that one "belongs to a group"...
What I find really important though is not to attach values such as "being a sub is better than being a bottom".


my 2 cents

VP

i agree, Mistress VP........

for me, choosing a label for onesself is a good means of self-identification insofar as it allows others a perspective when viewing you......

......and as long as people do not judge you as a result in accordance with their narrow interpretation of that label, than a label serves a somewhat positive purpose, in my opinion

::smiles as he flashes his newly purchased red rose::

 

[catalina_francisco]

Another interesting topic for many....

 

[cati]

Clarification of terms

My Dom and I had this discussion just this evening as a matter of fact...smiles
when he kindly made these terms clear to me. I too assumed that a bottom was more or less a sub...shrugs..and masochistic to some degree.

Ok this is how the grand Poo-Bah explained it to me:

A Dom and sub interact through a power exchange. As his submissive I enjoy pleasing him and catering to his needs, sexual or otherwise. While we might scene I am not referred to as his "bottom" but his "sub" as I am still submitting to his Dominance. The dynamics are usually present 24/7.
A Dom and sub don't necessarily need to be in a "scene" (implementing BDSM) to make the dynamics work.

A Dom and sub, Top and bottom need not get involved in the sexual aspects of BDSM either.

A bottom is basically a masochist. They are not involved in D/s and they are not there for the sexual aspects of BDSM play. Usually the dynamics between Top and bottom presents itself during a "scene"
A Top is basically a Sadist and there for the same reasons. The Top inflicts, the bottom receives. They are in a scene strictly for the sensations and to meet their own needs.

The difference between the Dom and sub and Top and bottom is the element of power exchange. The Top and bottom do not implement power exchange but they both adhere to the credo of "Safe Sane and Consensual" in an organized public format. When the two interact there is no D/s, the bottom does not submit nor does the Top dominate.

From Wikipedia:

The terms Dominant and submissive refer to the mental exchange of power or control. A Dominant person enjoys controlling a submissive person. A submissive person is one who submits of their own free will and seeks to submit to another.

Top and bottom refer to the exchange of physical sensation.

In BDSM, a Top is a partner who takes the role of giver in such acts as bondage, flogging, humiliation, or servitude. The Top performs acts such as these upon the bottom, who is the person receiving for the duration of a scene.

Although it is easy to assume that a top is Dominant and a bottom is submissive, it is not necessarily so.

The top is sometimes the partner who is following instructions, i.e., he tops when, and in the manner, requested by the bottom.

Submissives enjoy taking orders from a Dominant but may not receive any physical (sexual) stimulation.

Bottoms enjoy the intense physical and psychological stimulation but do not submit to the person delivering them. It should be noted that the bottom is most often the partner who is giving instructions—the top typically tops when, and in the manner, requested by the bottom.

Within a sadomasochistic context, submissive is often considered synonymous with bottom.
Others are of the opinion that a "submissive" is specifically pursuing a Dominant/submissive power-exchange as a key element, whereas a "bottom" may or may not be interested (or even willing) to engage in that exchange.

Personally I have no problems with using "labels"... if you want to call it that. They serve a purpose in helping to identify who people are and what they do in a BDSM context.

 

[BeachGurl2]

<snip>
A Dom and sub interact through a power exchange. As his submissive I enjoy pleasing him and catering to his needs, sexual or otherwise. While we might scene I am not referred to as his "bottom" but his "sub" as I am still submitting to his Dominance. The dynamics are usually present 24/7.
A Dom and sub don't necessarily need to be in a "scene" (implementing BDSM) to make the dynamics work.
<snip>
A bottom is basically a masochist. They are not involved in D/s and they are not there for the sexual aspects of BDSM play. Usually the dynamics between Top and bottom presents itself during a "scene"
A Top is basically a Sadist and there for the same reasons. The Top inflicts, the bottom receives. They are in a scene strictly for the sensations and to meet their own needs.

The difference between the Dom and sub and Top and bottom is the element of power exchange. The Top and bottom do not implement power exchange but they both adhere to the credo of "Safe Sane and Consensual" in an organized public format. When the two interact there is no D/s, the bottom does not submit nor does the Top dominate.
<snip>

Did you mean to say they ARE there for the sexual aspects? My understanding of Top and bottom is that it is strictly sexual in nature.

This is very similar to my understanding of the differences as well. A Dom may or may not be a sadist; a sub may or may not be a masochist. And I agree with the designation of power exchange occuring between D/s, but not necessarily between Top and bottom. I've never viewed Top and bottom as a power exchange - but maybe that's just my lack of education showing.

In my world, D/s occurs in and out of the bedroom, although I remain a sub, not a slave - maybe need to add slave to the original equation here. My Dom is a sadist and I am a bit of a masochist. I'm not a bottom, I am a sub. He's not a Top, he's a Dom. That is who we are all the time. (And because of my new job and my move, we are about to go 24/7 while I look for a new house, which should be interesting for both of us - especially considering it's only temporary for the next month or so.)

I am what I am - a submissive woman, both in and out of the bedroom. My Dom is a dominant man, both in and out of the bedroom. We're not afraid of those labels. My Dom calls me his sub. He calls himself my Dom. The labels don't define us, it just is who we are - whether the labels are there or not.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[serijules]

From Wikipedia:

The terms Dominant and submissive refer to the mental exchange of power or control. A Dominant person enjoys controlling a submissive person. A submissive person is one who submits of their own free will and seeks to submit to another.

Top and bottom refer to the exchange of physical sensation.

In BDSM, a Top is a partner who takes the role of giver in such acts as bondage, flogging, humiliation, or servitude. The Top performs acts such as these upon the bottom, who is the person receiving for the duration of a scene.

Although it is easy to assume that a top is Dominant and a bottom is submissive, it is not necessarily so.

The top is sometimes the partner who is following instructions, i.e., he tops when, and in the manner, requested by the bottom.

Submissives enjoy taking orders from a Dominant but may not receive any physical (sexual) stimulation.

Bottoms enjoy the intense physical and psychological stimulation but do not submit to the person delivering them. It should be noted that the bottom is most often the partner who is giving instructions—the top typically tops when, and in the manner, requested by the bottom.

Within a sadomasochistic context, submissive is often considered synonymous with bottom.
Others are of the opinion that a "submissive" is specifically pursuing a Dominant/submissive power-exchange as a key element, whereas a "bottom" may or may not be interested (or even willing) to engage in that exchange.

This is by far the most accurate (in my opinion) definition in this thread.

My core interest was always spanking, thus I was involved in the spanking world for a long time. The groups I were involved with were largely spankos with a BDSM twist. So while the Dom/sub dynamic did exist, it wasn't as common as the Top/bottom.

In my opinion, top and bottom can be used in two ways. There is a top and a bottom in every scene and it can just be used to refer to which person is "dominanting" and which is "submitting" (using the words in Webster format as purely physical actions) without dipping a toe into that yucky lable pool. The top gives the sensation, be it mental or physical, and the bottom receives it...simple as that. In a Dom/sub relationship, the Dom is the top and the sub is the bottom. In a Daddy/daughter relationship, the Daddy is the top and the daughter is the bottom. This is actually my favourite label because it's great for communication purposes without making assumptions about anyone and their chosen role. It's vague enough to not assume anything, but straight forward enough to get the main point across. I like that. Under that use, I am a bottom; whatever other labels I take on depends on who I am with and what we are doing, but I am always a bottom.

I also see Top and bottom used, especially in the spanko world, as actual labels just as Dom and sub. I disagree it necessarily is a sexual relationship; I don't think being sexual is a requirement of ANY label. I don't think that the Top/bottom dynamic is devoid of mental power either; it's just not the focus of the label. I know many people that consider themselves Tops and bottoms that are or are not sexual in the relationship, that are or are not very close to one another and mentally very bonded in their exchange. Discipline is common in these relationships in my experience, as is roleplay. Basically, I see Top/bottom as Dominants and submissives without the D/s element. The things they do and the interactions they have may be nearly identical, but without the active mental focus of dominance and submission.

I used to say that I bottom to many, I submit to one.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...in my experience and opinion, labels are extremely simple. I don't define them by the physical things that two people are doing, but the FOCUS of their interaction, both physical and mental. The physical things going on can vary depending on their interests, the relationship, the people, the scene, the situation, the experience, etc, but the mental focus really does not waver all that much at the core of each label.

My two cents.

 

[cati]

Beachgurl2 I agree 100% with what you have said.

Here's an example:

Suppose Lord ___ asks my Dom if he can scene with me in a public/private setting. I would be "bottoming" for him, he would be topping. He isn't my Dominant and I'm not submitting to him, there is no D/s "power exchange" and no sexual contact. Now if I was a masochist I would enjoy the pain that he inflicts on me. I would likely not be bottoming if I didn't *s
Most sadists prefer to play with a masochistic bottom. I may tell him what "toys" to use or not use during play.

The bottom receives the Top inflicts. If someone should ask after me, it would be said that Cati is over there "bottoming" for Lord ___.

Using these definitions... If I am scening with my own Dom, and not necessarily be a masochist (ie) not like the pain but do it primarily for his pleasure I am submitting, I gain pleasure vicariously through his yielding of the flogger and being able to please him by "taking the pain". He can be sadistic in his play.

He is always a Dominant male and I am always a submissive female.

To call oneself a "sexual submissive" is more or less saying that you are not a "service" sub. A "sexual submissive" is at her best in the bedroom and pleasing her Dom sexually. Sexual gratification is the most important aspect of their relationship. She submits to his control (primarily) in the "bedroom" and gains her pleasure from being able to serve her Dom in that way. She may not get any thrills from the drudgery of having to serve and cater to her Dom/me's daily whims but will endure it *s to get her jollies in the boudoir.

A "service sub" is one who gains pleasure (for the most part) from serving, cooking, housekeeping etc....making her Dom/me happy. The smile her Dom/me gives her/him for a well cooked meal.

Most subs are a blend of all of the above.

There is always a grey area in all of this and definitions can and do overlap. But you can't get away from the fact that these labels are necessary to describe what we do. Granted, no-one goes around saying they are a sexual or service sub... as some of this is just simply understood.
Definitions are just as important as standards of behaviour and protocol in my opinion.

 

[cati]

I just wanted to add that I know of one woman who calls herself a 'sadistic sub' who does submit to her Dom but will also Top during a scene. She makes her own single tails and damn if she doesn't know how to use them! She will only play the sadist to a masochist.

 

[Richard49]

Over my many years
I have meet many Doms that were bottoms
because they were into recieving pain
but not into exchanging power/giving up power
to another

 

[Bandit58]

Over my many years
I have meet many Doms that were bottoms
because they were into recieving pain
but not into exchanging power/giving up power
to another

Interesting you say that Richard - the Dom who gave me my first public caning was also later seen hanging from an A frame being caned himself by two lovely Dommes He explained to me that he had masochistic tendencies and allowed himself this playtime at the parties where he was well known for taking a hell of a beating with no visible marks

Answering the original post - I'm submissive, in and out of the bedroom. I serve by taking care of Master who as some of you know has quite a few health issues. I don't consider myself slave material, I like to retain control over some aspects of my life (for example money - fortunately Master has no interest in that or in any other micro managing such as choosing clothing, though sometimes He will say what He would like me to wear to a specific event, or sometimes tell me to go without panties )

 

[Top Cat]

Interesting you say that Richard - the Dom who gave me my first public caning was also later seen hanging from an A frame being caned himself by two lovely Dommes He explained to me that he had masochistic tendencies and allowed himself this playtime at the parties where he was well known for taking a hell of a beating with no visible marks

Answering the original post - I'm submissive, in and out of the bedroom. I serve by taking care of Master who as some of you know has quite a few health issues. I don't consider myself slave material, I like to retain control over some aspects of my life (for example money - fortunately Master has no interest in that or in any other micro managing such as choosing clothing, though sometimes He will say what He would like me to wear to a specific event, or sometimes tell me to go without panties )

And your "master" is a very lucky man to have you... I wish him well in his recovery and my best wishes to you both on your future...

sorry Ms for getting off the line of the thread ...