Toy or Slave, what is the difference??

[chy_girl]

Quod erat demonstrandum a rose by any other name and that smelling thing.

A rose by any other name... Would be "deadly, thorn bearing, assault vegetation?"

 

[Stella_Omega]

A rose by any other name... Would be "deadly, thorn bearing, assault vegetation?"

Not deadly... but yeah.

 

[chy_girl]

Not deadly... but yeah.

Now that would depend on the size of the rose bed, wouldn't it? There's some wicked roses out there. They're kind of like the snipers of the flora community.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Now that would depend on the size of the rose bed, wouldn't it? There's some wicked roses out there. They're kind of like the snipers of the flora community.

I like the ones that smell like heaven with malice aforethought.

Turkish Attar roses, and Prince Of Wales, and Mrs. Roosevelt.

The kind you have to steal out of other people's gardens...

 

[RuReal]

You know I enjoy reading threads here and seeing where they go and what people say. To the OP listen well to what everyone says and make your own choices. Stella pointed something out that you should pay close attention to. Being a Sub, Slave or what have you does not give up your rights to be a person or make choices nor does it remove you from the world of BDSM.

I love my wife a great deal and when we do BDSM play I do not love her any less at all. I open doors for her including the car door, but I will also tell her to get her ass out of the car and make it quick. Romance is different for different people you can have your cake and eat it too.

I know someone who was in the scene for years from back in Europe as well and he has a very open view on BDSM he has traveled and lived in different places. A very good man who tells great stories about the past and I have a great deal of respect for. Respect is earned and the attitude about there being only one right way is not the way to do it.

 

[Neysha]

Interesting discussion.

 

[BiBunny]

heck, i surely wasn't looking to engage in deep discussions with anyone. casual chit chat is awesome, but is difficult for me to engage in with most folks because even the most mundane of topics revolves around the reality of my life as a slave and the restrictions/isolation/control/etc. that entails. so there was my Master and his Dom buddies talking music industry shop, and a bunch of female pyls discussing the stuff you mentioned: the ins and outs of the particular kinks they were into, what parties or workshops they had attended or were attending, who they had played with recently and how hot it was, etc. what two cents could i put in a crowd like that? so i just sat mostly dead silent the whole evening, sipping my drink beside Daddy and wishing i could have stayed home.

Lord, no, munches are not for everyone. Try walking into the "pansexual" (read: monogamous hetero M-Doms and femsubs who occasionally play with other females for the titillation of the M-Doms) munch with your girlfriend of 7 years and then trying to talk about your Owners--plural--when discussion time comes up. That was...horrid.

 

[Stella_Omega]

... though it occured to me to have her call me Boy a few times, with more of a Christopher Robin type slant.

Or "Boy" in the Peter Pan sense. That would be a scary dom!

(oh right... speaking of which, I won't get started on the "submission of pooh")

I can't tell you how grateful i am that you don't

 

[where]

I was munching with Old Guard players and folks who run European houses of domination before most of the folks in this forum had an internet connection or knew the letters "BDSM" could be used all together to mean "something kinky".

It's pretty common these days for noobs to think that "anything goes" in this world of BDSM. Get some of your fellow noobs together and you can call yourselves a munch. Why not start a fetlife group, and give bad advice to other newcomers?

There are norms and "rules" in BDSM and they are easily accessible in the canonical literature which many claim to have read but few have mastered.

No romance in BDSM. End of story.

whilst I am pretty sure you are taking the piss, if you ARE right and there is no romance and therefore no love in BDSM, then what about other interpersonal emotions?

also I can see how the 'no romance' would work if you are basically just fucking around and not in a relationship, but what about all those people who are in committed relationships and have families? in many ways those who live it 24/7 really ARE hardcore bdsm-ers, you saying there is no love in those relationships?

I go to TNG munches (for younger people) AND to munches for people of all ages. There is absolutely NO real difference, except for maybe a difference in pop-cultural knowledge

And, I don't know if it would be you feel more comfortable going to an organized event (even one as informal and relaxed as a munch), but I can promise you, you wouldn't be the only person there who is, or has ever been, unsure of their role, or if they even have one at all. And I promise promise promise that people don't go to munches and sit around discussing their chosen labels, and calling each other by their labels, etc. People are more likely to talk about a movie, or a local restaurant, or a good book, than they are to talk about floggers and slaves. People might discuss upcoming or recent events, but for the most part, that's as far as talking about BDSM goes at a munch.

Anyway, if you aren't comfortable going to organized events no matter what, then that's that, but I don't want you to have a wrong impression of the scene.

hahaha! oK, convinced, but I'd WANT to talk about floggers and knots and stuff! I can talk about the other stuff anyway.

I suppose I treat lit like a munch

 

[Stella_Omega]

whilst I am pretty sure you are taking the piss, if you ARE right and there is no romance and therefore no love in BDSM, then what about other interpersonal emotions?

also I can see how the 'no romance' would work if you are basically just fucking around and not in a relationship, but what about all those people who are in committed relationships and have families? in many ways those who live it 24/7 really ARE hardcore bdsm-ers, you saying there is no love in those relationships?

if he is taking the piss, there are a few too many newbies reading the thread and taking him seriously, which is why i'm disputing his quasi-humorous stance.

hahaha! oK, convinced, but I'd WANT to talk about floggers and knots and stuff! I can talk about the other stuff anyway.

I suppose I treat lit like a munch

You do!

 

[where]

if he is taking the piss, there are a few too many newbies reading the thread and taking him seriously, which is why i'm disputing his quasi-humorous stance.

Well I suppose I classify as a n00b, but it is so far removed from my own albeit limited experience not to mention common sense as to come across like someone trying to get a rise. however, with this and rosco's obsession with the 'feminization' of america's men (whatever that means), I'm wondering if he isn't having some kind of midlife crisis.

<<<<< shit stirrer!

You do!

It's the perils of living in a rural and culturally bankrupt environment. I have to live vicariously through you lot.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I think a lot of guys use BDSM as an excuse for behaving like spoiled babies, personally.

Hell, I do.

 

[where]

I had wanted to post more a moment ago, but got cut off. Now I don't remember most of it.

perhaps for the better.



a sort of perpetual midlife crisis has been a part of roscoe's online persona for as along as I can remember reading his posts here. I remember him frequently lamenting an inablity to control anger issues, or "wrath" as he puts it, and having great difficulty forming and keeping close personal relationships. I seem to remember him mentioning in one of his depressed episodes that he feared that he was hiding behind BDSM as an excuse. I don't think it needs to be condescended to the level of being an excuse, but neither do I regard roscoe as any kind of universal sage.

It is possible he harkens to a bygone day when what he's describing really was "the way things are." But things change and evolve, and all these n00bs he's so bitter about are out there creating the reality of the modern scene while he fumes over the loss of ways and customs that may or may not have ever been as wide spread as he claims, not understanding that it's a moot point now; the whole things a lot bigger than it used to be.

Although I hold a great deal of respect for him as a long time poster, for the most part I either don't mind him, or pay no mind to him.

I'd like to be clear I am just pulling rosco's pigtails. Mostly because I do think here he is just kidding, but also because it's fun.

 

[00Syd]

I suppose I treat lit like a munch

That's a good way to look at it.

 

[intothewoods]

I had wanted to post more a moment ago, but got cut off. Now I don't remember most of it.

perhaps for the better.



a sort of perpetual midlife crisis has been a part of roscoe's online persona for as along as I can remember reading his posts here. I remember him frequently lamenting an inablity to control anger issues, or "wrath" as he puts it, and having great difficulty forming and keeping close personal relationships. I seem to remember him mentioning in one of his depressed episodes that he feared that he was hiding behind BDSM as an excuse. I don't think it needs to be condescended to the level of being an excuse, but neither do I regard roscoe as any kind of universal sage.

It is possible he harkens to a bygone day when what he's describing really was "the way things are." But things change and evolve, and all these n00bs he's so bitter about are out there creating the reality of the modern scene while he fumes over the loss of ways and customs that may or may not have ever been as wide spread as he claims, not understanding that it's a moot point now; the whole things a lot bigger than it used to be.

Although I hold a great deal of respect for him as a long time poster, for the most part I either don't mind him, or pay no mind to him.

I thought that was Marquis. Well, not exactly, but I've never read any personal posts of roscoe. Maybe I missed the good ol' days and should so some searches.

 

[eastern sun]

. . . . . . (I almost made a promise I couldn't deliver)

 

[Netzach]

Boy you guys do not take to being fucked with well at all. I thought I was bad.

But seriously, I've never seen anything piss off the whole lot of you more than the idea that maybe romance might NOT be part of BDSM. Because it's part of yours. Well, yay.

This is one of the reasons people like me, who DO compartment, who have a husband to go home and bang and kiss and a slave to put feet up on get fed up being treated like some kind of sociopath.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Boy you guys do not take to being fucked with well at all. I thought I was bad.

But seriously, I've never seen anything piss off the whole lot of you more than the idea that maybe romance might NOT be part of BDSM. Because it's part of yours. Well, yay.

This is one of the reasons people like me, who DO compartment, who have a husband to go home and bang and kiss and a slave to put feet up on get fed up being treated like some kind of sociopath.

Um, no. I get pissed off at the statement that romance is NEVER a part of BDSM-- especially when, for this crowd, it so obviously is, and when so many (women) are so easily made insecure.

And I get pissed off when some fool references non-existant authority.

Romance isn't especially a part of my BDSM, nor are some other dynamics that people here seem to take for granted. I haven't noticed any disapproval though-- maybe some confusion...

Have I missed someone here treating you like a sociopath?

 

[john_and_mima]

wow, this went off topic slightly

to me a toy would just be a plaything possibly a one-off or a loan with no attachment. A slave would be a long-term service orientated relationship and would be kept for myself.

There is no I in TEAM and no R in BDSM.

If you want romance get a boyfriend.

And i'm Mimas Dom and Boyfriend, romance and BDSM can co-exist.
I really want to add more to this but have no idea what to put, it surprises me that people that are into BDSM could be so narrow minded

John

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

I really want to add more to this but have no idea what to put, it surprises me that people that are into BDSM could be so narrow minded

Being 'into' BDSM does not automatically equal being openminded, you know.

They're still people, and they're still prone to their opinions on stuff.

 

[CuteBrat]

It's been stated with conviction several times on this board that a slave has no safe word, and may or may not be subject to sharing or even being sold.

That may be for some people, for many perhaps, but ultimately it depends on the dynamic of each particular relationship. Hard and fast definitions and universal rules are just smoke and mirrors put out there to make people feel like their own version is more special because theirs conforms to "the one true way."

There is no one true way, it's been discussed so much to death that the very word "true" seems to incite gag reflexes around here these days.

The terms PYL and pyl see a lot of use lately (pick your label) so as to allow litsters to discuss other subjects without every single discussion devolving into "but a true slave/submissive/toy/bottom/babygirl/pet/puppyboy/ponygirl is ________."

I struggle with this. I agree there is no "twoo way". My kink may not be your kink. Your mileage may vary. But I think we also start to lose any actual definition of words.

I've encountered women (and men) both in person and online who identify as slave. But they have a laundry list of things they won't do....have expectations of how their "masters" need to behave, and can safeword if they don't like what's being done to them.

I'm sorry...but that's NOT a slave. I don't want to seem closeminded...but when you can refuse or stop the action, you're not a slave. You may be the most awesome sub out there but you aren't a slave.

I think the only impact me using a safe word would have is a temporary break in the action while The Masters fall on the floor laughing. And I know the age old counter-argument "if your master told you to jump off a cliff would you?" And the answer is no, I probably wouldn't. But by refusing to do so, I would have ended the relationship and be released.

I get annoyed when I see people dumb down the term slave, so it can fit more people. It DOESN'T fit most people. Most people wouldn't WANT to be slaves. But those of us who are, don't want to see the purity of the word whittled away.

 

[Stella_Omega]

My idea of being a slave is a gem studded collar and posing strap, a personal masseuse, a deeply padded mattress in a cage with blued steel bars that any slim and elegant playmate can easily step through when I beckon, and a list of duties that include umm... gladiator demos, wine parties, and plenty of sex.

... No?

 

[CuteBrat]

My idea of being a slave is a gem studded collar and posing strap, a personal masseuse, a deeply padded mattress in a cage with blued steel bars that any slim and elegant playmate can easily step through when I beckon, and a list of duties that include umm... gladiator demos, wine parties, and plenty of sex.

... No?

That literally made me laugh out loud...

 

[SimonBrooke]

Um, no. I get pissed off at the statement that romance is NEVER a part of BDSM-- especially when, for this crowd, it so obviously is, and when so many (women) are so easily made insecure.

This.

I know that for some people, BDSM is just a way of getting their own personal rocks off, and the other person in the scene is there simply as a masturbation aid. That's fine, if it works for them. It doesn't work for me.

For me, I can't dominate someone without understanding them at a fairly deep level, and when you understand anyone at a deep level, in my experience, you always find something in them to love. But beyond that, I think, the mere fact of someone submitting to me arouses feelings of affection and protection towards them. It won't stop me hurting them or punishing them, but I will seek to protect them against anyone else hurting them.

 

[ecstaticsub]

We use the term owned submissive instead of slave or submissive to describe my place in this relationship. I do not have a safeword, I do not have any hard limits that are not his limits also. I would never say "no" to him. I interact with others out in the world in the way in which he would like me to act--24/7.

I am not a slave. He and I do not live together so IMO I can not be there enough to be a slave to him. (I also think the use of the word slave for this kind of relationship is offensive...but if others want to use it that's fine with me)

The difference in my mind is that I do retain the right to request to be released. He has to grant that request in order for me to leave the relationship. I don't see us ending any time in the future.