US Perceptions of the UK and vice versa

[oggbashan]

Roundabouts? WTF? There are little ones, no more than a bump in the road and there are huge, miles wide ones that require six or seven traffic signals to negotiate. 'nough said.

...

Apologies for the screen stretch. The diagram has to be large for any attempt to understand it.

I'll be negotiating this roundabout several times next week:

Aerial View:

Diagram:

This is a complaint from a University student:

http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2005/QBlog160705A.html

 

[NaokoSmith]

OMG, Ogg, that is a stretch and a half!

In one of the modules I taught, there was a cool chapter comparing the thinking of two traffic management systems.

Following big upsurge in traffic on the roads, the Buchanan Report (1963 - a good year that ) introduced road signage and markings which clearly signalled to drivers, pedestrians, cyclists etc which areas were proper for them to use, sometimes at certain times.

In the 1980s a Dutch road traffic engineer called Monderman introduced a different traffic calming system. In urban areas he removed a lot of signage, forcing pedestrians, drivers, cycles and other road users to negotiate how they used roads, using eye contact, and develop more awareness of each other. (Drivers cut their speed by 40% in the village where he trialled this.)

I was struck when I was in the States, one day we set out to walk from my brother's house in Georgetown Washington DC to the lovely local shops (yes, they have shops there, not a mall! we didn't quite realise at first how strange that was). Although there was a kind of path, it was obvious that nobody really used it because everyone drove everywhere.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

OMG, Ogg, that is a stretch and a half!

In one of the modules I taught, there was a cool chapter comparing the thinking of two traffic management systems.

Following big upsurge in traffic on the roads, the Buchanan Report (1963 - a good year that ) introduced road signage and markings which clearly signalled to drivers, pedestrians, cyclists etc which areas were proper for them to use, sometimes at certain times.

In the 1980s a Dutch road traffic engineer called Monderman introduced a different traffic calming system. In urban areas he removed a lot of signage, forcing pedestrians, drivers, cycles and other road users to negotiate how they used roads, using eye contact, and develop more awareness of each other. (Drivers cut their speed by 40% in the village where he trialled this.)

I was struck when I was in the States, one day we set out to walk from my brother's house in Georgetown Washington DC to the lovely local shops (yes, they have shops there, not a mall! we didn't quite realise at first how strange that was). Although there was a kind of path, it was obvious that nobody really used it because everyone drove everywhere.

In most town, villages and cities in the U.S. they stopped putting in sidewalks as a cost savings measure, because nobody walked anywhere. Then walking became popular as a health measure and sidewalks were once again in demand. Oops.

 

[oggbashan]

...

In the 1980s a Dutch road traffic engineer called Monderman introduced a different traffic calming system. In urban areas he removed a lot of signage, forcing pedestrians, drivers, cycles and other road users to negotiate how they used roads, using eye contact, and develop more awareness of each other. (Drivers cut their speed by 40% in the village where he trialled this.)

...

The town of Ashford, Kent tried this on their one-way ring road which was suffering from excessive speeding in a 30 mph limit.

It didn't work. Accidents increased. The Dutch engineer hadn't intended it to be used on major trunk roads.

Now their one-way ring road is two way. Speeds have decreased but it is still a shambles.

 

[sr71plt]

References to Dutch traffic consultants had me chuckling. A Dutch team redesigned the Bangkok, Thailand, one-way major road pattern once, and everything was going swimmingly until it was seen that they had every major road set for one-way out of the city.

On roundabouts, there's one above Gloucester that gave me apoplexy (one lane going into a roundabout is fine; three lanes going into a three-lane roundabout is murder) and a gauntlet of six above Limassol in Cyprus that would have my wife babbling in the passenger seat.

 

[beachbum1958]

The town of Ashford, Kent tried this on their one-way ring road which was suffering from excessive speeding in a 30 mph limit.

It didn't work. Accidents increased. The Dutch engineer hadn't intended it to be used on major trunk roads.

Now their one-way ring road is two way. Speeds have decreased but it is still a shambles.

And then there's the Milton Keynes 'Magic Roundabout', where, on a dark night, it's actually possible to meet yourself going the other way, and poor, starving drivers from rural Oxfordshire and Cornwall who've been trapped there for weeks and are just praying for an early death...

 

[DeYaKen]

And then there's the Milton Keynes 'Magic Roundabout', where, on a dark night, it's actually possible to meet yourself going the other way, and poor, starving drivers from rural Oxfordshire and Cornwall who've been trapped there for weeks and are just praying for an early death...

The Magic Roundabout is in Swindon and is made of multiple roundabouts linked together.
Milton Keynes has 64 roundabouts because the city is built on an eight by eight network of roads every junction on the 8x8 matrix is a roundabout. Each roundabout is named so navigation is by which exit to use at each roundabout.

 

[DeYaKen]

I spent a month in the London area, mainly Woking and Guildford. The hotel I stayed in was in Guildford and the office was in Woking. The company I worked for at the time had purchased the company in Woking. I went there with five others from our Atlanta office to get them setup and train them on the software we developed and sold.

For the most part is was enjoyable, except for my arrival. Frozen fog they said. Diverted to New Castle. Long, long train ride into London. Switch trains, to get to Gatwick to pick up the rental car. Then a drive over to Guildford to the hotel. Police stopped me on the motorway twice. First time driving on the wrong side of the road, they thought I was...pissed.

You may not realise it Zeb but you are actually showing up another one of the differences. You describe Woking as the London area, whereas we know it as Surrey. It is about an hour's drive into London. You chaps are used to long car journeys so 30 miles is just around the corner, Woking becomes part of London. For us on our tiny islands an hour's drive is a significant distance. Woking is positively rural.

BTW Newcastle is all one word.
I hope our police treated you well when they stopped you.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

You may not realise it Zeb but you are actually showing up another one of the differences. You describe Woking as the London area, whereas we know it as Surrey. It is about an hour's drive into London. You chaps are used to long car journeys so 30 miles is just around the corner, Woking becomes part of London. For us on our tiny islands an hour's drive is a significant distance. Woking is positively rural.

BTW Newcastle is all one word.
I hope our police treated you well when they stopped you.

Yep, I lived in the Chicago area my whole childhood, even though it was outside the city limits in an unincorporated suburb it was still in the same county and I still lived in Chicago. Things are so much larger here in the states.

The same for where I live now. I live in an unincorporated area outside the city limits of Houston, yet I still live in Houston according to the postal service.

They treated just fine. No strip searches or cavity searches. Once they saw my passport they laughed and sent me on my way.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

And then there's the Milton Keynes 'Magic Roundabout', where, on a dark night, it's actually possible to meet yourself going the other way, and poor, starving drivers from rural Oxfordshire and Cornwall who've been trapped there for weeks and are just praying for an early death...

I think I found that one. After three days I got hungry, so I stepped out of the car, leaving it in gear to go about its business and walked to the nearest eatery. I then called a cab to get back to my hotel and notified the rental company and told them where their car was.

 

[beachbum1958]

The Magic Roundabout is in Swindon and is made of multiple roundabouts linked together.
Milton Keynes has 64 roundabouts because the city is built on an eight by eight network of roads every junction on the 8x8 matrix is a roundabout. Each roundabout is named so navigation is by which exit to use at each roundabout.

The Milton Keynes Magic Roundabout is the confluence of the A414, Two Towers Road, Selden Hill, the A4146, and Station Road - I had to navigate it every day when I was seconded to Milton Keynes University Hospital, and I never got it right two days in a row.
I eventually ended-up detouring all the way around Milton Keynes just to avoid the bloody place, in the rush hour it's like the chariot race in 'Ben Hur'.

 

[Handley_Page]

Hey HP...why don't you share what the Pentagon thought were the differences between the UK and the USA back in 1943...or at least what they thought our boys needed to know before we dropped them off to you to help fight Hitler.

Rumor has it you have an interesting booklet from back then.



.

I notice that the New York 'Jets' NFL team, amongst others, is coming to London to play.
From the Daily Telegraph:-
"Nothing has been left to chance in preparing the Jets for their game against the Miami Dolphins - with the team even bringing their own toilet roll because the British variety is too thin. "
See further details HERE.
There are a few jokes about it all ready.

What's needed is a little guide book, like the one the US forces had in 1943. . . .

 

[Everyday_Man]

No offense to Ogg, but I HATE the UK...

My son is British, I'm American (West Coast) ... guess I'm biased.

It's compact, small and everything they do is small and compact.

And, according to my boy, i'ts ... 'Call of Juty' and not 'Duty'.

 

[legerdemer]

Bit they still have bookstores in the UK...

 

[Tio_Narratore]

I would expect so, but they probably don't incorporate a café, a toy store, and a home decor centre.

 

[JKendallDane]

I notice that the New York 'Jets' NFL team, amongst others, is coming to London to play.
From the Daily Telegraph:-
"Nothing has been left to chance in preparing the Jets for their game against the Miami Dolphins - with the team even bringing their own toilet roll because the British variety is too thin. "
See further details HERE.
There are a few jokes about it all ready.

What's needed is a little guide book, like the one the US forces had in 1943. . . .

You really do need to post some pictures of the pages (or at least post what they say) because somebody didn't bother to make copies of it before he shipped it off to Jolly Ol' England.

.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

There's another US v UK thing in HP's story.

There are no football matches. There are football games. There are only tennis matches in the US. Everything else is a game. Even soccer is a game here. Baseball, basketball, etc. are team sports that have games.

So, Wembley will be hosting three NFL games.

 

[Messier82]

Well yes, a lot of truth in that posting, I do think that the 'no guns' is one of the most important (I know, you guys will never give them up, no matter how many school and college massacres there are).

As a Brit who's been to the US several times, sometimes for extended periods, I've found that real-life Americans are a lot nicer and more likeable than your TV & movies would have us believe.

The OP said they'd visited "mostly small towns", whereas I work in one of the most deprived areas of the UK (according to recently released statistics) so I have disagree with the points below. Here, smoking is rife, devil dogs are common, most folk eat junk and lots of it so obesity isn't rare, and the Police have been the subject of many investigations of corruption and other dubious shenanigans in recent years.

Fortunately I live miles away from where I work

* Almost everyone is very polite
* The food is generally outstanding
* The pubs close too early
* Pubs are not bars, they are community living rooms.
* There are very well behaved dogs everywhere
* People don't seem to be afraid of their neighbors or the government
* There are hardly any cops or police cars.
* When you do see police they seem to be in male & female pairs and often smiling
* Dogs are very well behaved and welcome everywhere
* By law, there are no crappy, old cars
* Everything closes at 1700 (5pm)
* Very few people smoke
* The trains work: a three minute delay is regrettable
* There are far fewer fat English people

 

[DeYaKen]

Well yes, a lot of truth in that posting, I do think that the 'no guns' is one of the most important (I know, you guys will never give them up, no matter how many school and college massacres there are).

As a Brit who's been to the US several times, sometimes for extended periods, I've found that real-life Americans are a lot nicer and more likeable than your TV & movies would have us believe.

The OP said they'd visited "mostly small towns", whereas I work in one of the most deprived areas of the UK (according to recently released statistics) so I have disagree with the points below. Here, smoking is rife, devil dogs are common, most folk eat junk and lots of it so obesity isn't rare, and the Police have been the subject of many investigations of corruption and other dubious shenanigans in recent years.

Fortunately I live miles away from where I work

I know that you are right about the difference between small towns and inner cities. there are also differences between North and South. The OP doesn't say whether he comes from a small town in the US or an inner city so we don't know what he is comparing his UK experience to.

I was really hoping that people like you, who have visited the USA, would tell us about your observations. Friends have told me about the omnipresent National Flag and the straightness of the roads. You must have things that you could share.

 

[DeYaKen]

Bit they still have bookstores in the UK...

I would expect so, but they probably don't incorporate a café, a toy store, and a home decor centre.

Yes we do still have book shops. They are under threat, but in small towns there are still some small independents.
Foyles, and Waterstones, (our equivalent to Barnes & Noble) are expanding. They tend to be large shops and do incorporate cafe's. I've never seen one with a toy shop and home decor centre, though supermarkets in the UK sell all those things plus food.

 

[Lori_the_Hoosier]

No offense to Ogg, but I HATE the UK...

My son is British, I'm American (West Coast) ... guess I'm biased.

It's compact, small and everything they do is small and compact.

And, according to my boy, i'ts ... 'Call of Juty' and not 'Duty'.

I'm constantly amused by people like you who use 'no offense' as a precursor to doing exactly that; surely it would have been easier and more honest to just not give offense in the first place...?

Speaking as a fellow American, albeit one who lives in England, has done for many years, and loves it dearly, I sincerely suggest you either adjust your attitude or shut your pie-hole before you continue to embarrass yourself and every other American with your continuing display of xenophobic ignorance. I'm proud and deeply honored to be an American, I think it's the greatest country on this earth, it's my home and the place and people I love the most, and people like you do us no favors whatsoever.

Go back to your cave, pull the rock in front of it, and carry-on doing whatever it is you do in place of thinking, I'm ashamed to be sharing a planet with an unthinking ignoramus like you. Britain may be a small place, but its influence on the world is incalculable and hugely out of proportion to the size of the country or it's population; whether you like it or not, it's the mother of our country, which is why we share a common language and heritage, and, apart from a couple of minor hiccups, have managed to be friends and allies since the birth of our nation; perhaps if you'd been to school occasionally and actually paid attention, you'd know this.

And how can you hate the UK when you say your son's British? That's the part that puzzles me; obviously something about the place appealed to you at some point...

 

[Messier82]

I was really hoping that people like you, who have visited the USA, would tell us about your observations. Friends have told me about the omnipresent National Flag and the straightness of the roads. You must have things that you could share.

Tons of observations/experiences to share, though as the UK has adopted more and more US trends and habits the differences are smaller now than when I first visited (1993).

Language particularly, US-speak is more common now in the UK than before: eg 'I'm good' instead of 'no thank you', the ever present "O.M.G." (which I dislike greatly), the use of 'like' instead of 'said'. For example: "He was like, 'OMG!, Yeah, right' and I was like 'Hey, I'm good, catch you later.' " In the 90s I found that I wasn't generally recognised as English because of my northern accent, I'd be curious to know if that would have changed since you've encountered Cheryl Cole and the plethora of northern accents in Game of Thrones.

Yes, I quite liked the omnipresent flag, I know flags can be seen by some as a divisive issue & cause concerns (my father's family are from Northern Ireland, 'nuff said) but I admire the way the US literally shows its colours everywhere, it's a good looking flag too.

I also like the way schools have a pledge of allegiance. I often feel that we Brits are somewhat uncomfortable with commonplace patriotism, though we do like to get out in force for the big events (eg Queens Jubilee etc).

We're not comfortable with the idea of tipping, especially the idea of 'working for tips', and 'running a tab' at a bar where you're an obvious stranger is an odd idea to us, too open to abuse. The free coffee refills are a nice touch. We don't like the idea of sales tax/state tax being applied at the till, we see a price and expect to pay that price, seems a bit deceptive to our philosophy.

We like the cheap petrol, and the big engines, though the wallowy suspension doesn't suit our driving style. And you guys are so conservative about speed! I was driving an unfeasibly long and straight road in California (I5 perhaps?) nothing around but desert scrubland, signs said 55mph, I was doing about 65 and I passed one guy who screamed at me (I could hear him 'cos the top was down) "SLOW DOWN MAN!"

Showing ID to get into a bar? Eh? I'm obviously closer to 30 than 21 (back then anyway) and you want to see my passport?

It's amusing to us how little some Americans know about the outside world, I had one guy launch into an explanation about your "beverage" (a very odd word to us) called pep-si and what it was and that it was very popular in the US and I should try some... This was a guy doing a Masters, admittedly a 'sports-jock' but still

It's also amusing when you find you know more about America than an American: for a 'gentleman's wager' I bet one (college educated) guy I could name more of the 50 states than he could in two minutes. He took it well I confess, I'm a nerd/geek/list-maniac

It's refreshing when you find a Yank who can do decent sarcasm, but I've yet to find one who understood irony, even the college professors. Consequently, you guys really don't get our humour.

I love the way you guys take any opportunity to celebrate, even the end of a traffic jam is greeted by whooping and cheering.

I was surprised at how early bars and even shops close. 11.30pm in LA and I'm driving down Sunset, it's quiet as a Sunday morning
And your rough parts of town, no big deal. I told someone in a bar on Sunset that I'd been walking through Venice about an hour earlier, they seemed to think think I was a suicidal madman. Meh, quieter and less troublesome than Newcastle on a Friday night.

Oh, and LA? What's all the fuss about? Not really impressed by it one way or the other, much preferred San Diego or San Francisco. I was impressed by the ease with which I drove from San Diego to San Francisco, even if I did get lost and ended up driving around Oakland for an hour! Quite challenging to drive that distance in the UK in the time it took me in the US, our roads are far more congested (apart from the traffic crawl of LA, which feels all too familiar). Nice winding drive down the coastal highway, would happily do that again.

East Coast, really liked The Keys, loved the thunderstorms and semi-tropical climate, had some nice diving there Too many
sushi bars and well nigh impossible to find an Indian Curry house, had to make do with a Thai curry one night. Picked up a liking for Jimmy Buffet's music while I was there, fits the climate nicely. I'd happily go back there again.

In the 90s I was travelling on my UK passport, in the 2000s I was on my Irish passport: what a difference! Irish passport + Immigration guy called Mackinley = straight through, no hassle. My UK-passport carrying companions, grilled to the max

I haven't been back since 9/11, but I'd like to return to do the old 'Route 66' trip, might be fun in a motor-home and to ask "Is this the way to Amarillo"

 

[LadyVer]

I'm constantly amused by people like you who use 'no offense' as a precursor to doing exactly that; surely it would have been easier and more honest to just not give offense in the first place...?

Speaking as a fellow American, albeit one who lives in England, has done for many years, and loves it dearly, I sincerely suggest you either adjust your attitude or shut your pie-hole before you continue to embarrass yourself and every other American with your continuing display of xenophobic ignorance. I'm proud and deeply honored to be an American, I think it's the greatest country on this earth, it's my home and the place and people I love the most, and people like you do us no favors whatsoever.

Go back to your cave, pull the rock in front of it, and carry-on doing whatever it is you do in place of thinking, I'm ashamed to be sharing a planet with an unthinking ignoramus like you. Britain may be a small place, but its influence on the world is incalculable and hugely out of proportion to the size of the country or it's population; whether you like it or not, it's the mother of our country, which is why we share a common language and heritage, and, apart from a couple of minor hiccups, have managed to be friends and allies since the birth of our nation; perhaps if you'd been to school occasionally and actually paid attention, you'd know this.

And how can you hate the UK when you say your son's British? That's the part that puzzles me; obviously something about the place appealed to you at some point...

I think you're over-reacting.

 

[Handley_Page]

No offense to Ogg, but I HATE the UK...

My son is British, I'm American (West Coast) ... guess I'm biased.

It's compact, small and everything they do is small and compact.

And, according to my boy, i'ts ... 'Call of Juty' and not 'Duty'.

You HATE the UK ?
By implication you ain't too keen on your "British" son, then.
Now, presumably, there's a marital reason for all this 'hate' which need not bother us here, but I can think of a couple of good jokes on the subject of the differences between our two countries.

Yes, we are a small, compact nation. England is probably slightly smaller that Iowa, by all accounts. Adding Scotland & Wales makes us the sise of Minesota, or so I'm told.
But does that stop our contribution to the nations of the globe ?
I suggest that it does not. English did not spread accross Oceans and Jungles, mountain ranges and deserts because we are/ were a bunch of bloody wimps.

As for the word pronounced "juty." Notice that it is the U that is important. Most parts of the UK do not pronounce it with a J. That isn't to say that it works like "Dooty," it does not. In a lot of places it comes out like "Dewty".

Have a nice Day.

 

[Lori_the_Hoosier]

I think you're over-reacting.

And if an English person had been so lip-curling and dismissive of America and a bunch of Americans jumped on him for disparaging their country, would you then call them out for overreacting? I think not. This guy was being dismissive and rudely ignorant, I called him; if you think I overreacted, well, it's your right; personally I think I put an ignorant racist in his place.