Vanilla Vs Kinky : where is the line?

[FurryFury]

I think it's an individual and/or couple thing to decide this. What others might consider vanilla could be quite kinky to some and vice versa.

 

[davidjamie69]

I think the line between what is kinky and what is not moves as couples experiment and push past previous boundaries. What was kinky yesterday, becomes excitinh, then practiced, repeated, and then perhaps vanilla. Until a new kinky thing gets thought up. But I also think kinky has a bit of a negative connotation. Like it's "not normal". It stems from the idea that by definition, "kinky" is something non-conventional (i.e. normal). But I think any sexual behavior is natural, and hence normal. Some folks are just more daring than others. My girl used to think me swallowing her cum juice was kinky, but now it's vanilla, although I still love to do it. And maybe analingus is kinky to some, but vanilla to others who do deep mutual anal penetration. It's all relative.

 

[rida]

Maybe, but more likely it comes from the continual microscopic examination of everything we do which seems to happen often online. It is easy to get caught up in and it isn't always bad to look closer at things, just sometimes it can become sort of a situation of not seeing the forest for the trees sort of mode of thinking, and then wandering off track in search of something that was there all along. I have always been someone who analyses things to death, but I must admit I am relearning and finding a way of changing that at times and I have to thank F for it. He mightn't say much (annoying as it is at times), but sometimes the small things he does say have a much greater impact behind the simplicity. Sometimes over thinking can take the pleasure and/or value out of something and leave little in it's place...sometimes not thinking much at all, just doing, can deliver a wealth of pleasure and value and more.

Catalina

Yes, I think too much! LOL
And I agree with you that over analyzing things does not add to the enjoyment. But it is indeed necessary to share a vocabulary to be able to converse, especially in the written form as on a Internet forum. That is probably the reason why so many discussion on labels and definitions are filling this boards.

Now the reason why I asked this question is that I was talking with Hubby, and I was classifying anal sex as borderline vanilla while he was claiming it is kinky.

And to add a bit of light trivia: KINKI is the name of the region where Osaka is

 

[rida]

the terms kinky and vanilla are very very subjective. i define vanilla as "normal", status quo, generally socially acceptable, etc. i define kink as sexual/erotic activities done for the purpose of mutual FUN. and by that definition, nothing in my life would qualify as kinky. it's actually a word i very much dislike, it has a light-hearted, playtime sort of connotation that i just can't relate to.

so, my life isn't vanilla, and it isn't kinky. relationship-wise i'd call us "traditional" or archaeic, sexually, we're perverted.

Thank you for your perspective.
Personally I find the word perverted carries a negative, against nature, judgment connotation that I do not like. But I can see why the fun connotation of kinky would not work for you.

 

[rida]

ecstaticsub

I cannot do role-play. I start laughing and it just does not work. LOL
Funny thou considering that I used to play D&D


MasterSnatch

I remember listening to my sexually liberated college roommate proclaiming how Doggy Style was demeaning to a woman worth and the only way was woman on top and thinking to myself: but I love doggy! and don't find it demeaning at all!

As for nipples, interesting how they are almost totally off the forbidden list in Italy (bra-less & nipple poking look is pretty normal) while they are covered up under heavy padded bras in Japan.



00Syd
Let's go freak out the normals!

 

[rida]

Defined by the energy and the dynamic in action at the time.

....

For me pure vanilla sex is kinky because I'm only getting some of my needs met but sometimes only vanilla sex will satisfy those parts of me.

So fuck it, I'm kinky as fuck all of the time I guess. Or at least not normal. How can you love someone so much it hurts your soul to see her even pout but also treat her harshly enough to make her cry?

Yes. I think you are right. It is all a question of how our mind perceive and feel whatever we do. Once the kinky is on, you cannot take it off.

 

[rida]

I think "kinky" is our slang word for "deviant behavior". In the broadest sense, I think what is deviant, ie., kinky, is defined by society. For example, we tend to think cutting is kinky but there are some primitive tribes with cultures that embrace that practice on a broad scale. So, to them cutting is not deviant and therefore, not "kinky". The same with flagellation (whipping, flogging, etc.). Prior cultures embraced flagellation. So, it is deviant for us while it was normal for them. The same is true for multiple sex partners and/or relationships. Other cultures have embraced these activities, so they were not deviant within those cultures.

I think that to understand ourselves and our culture we need to know and understand our history. I mean.... for someone who has never seen a tree, rolling grassland is probably their normal concept of what the whole world is like. Know what I mean? So I think we have to understand what has gone before to give us a perspective on the present.

And in studying what has gone before in terms of sexual and relationship practices I have come to understand that there is very little that we do that is new or kinky. WIITWD is merely deviant in our society. But! If we pick ourselves up and move to another society in another part of the globe then we can often find a place where our own personal kinks are no longer kinky. Ie., our kinks are "acceptable" and thus not deviant.

I think it is clear within an historical perspective that the advent and widespread acceptance of puritanical religious extremism, and the condemnation of virtually all things sexual and erotic had, and continues to have, an enormously important role in defining deviance in our society.

I would suggest that prior to Martin Luther and similar zealots that "woman on top" was not deviant (kinky) at all. I suggest it was considered a very natural way to screw and was widely practiced. After Martin Luther, and the teachings and sexual philosophies that sprang from him and his brethren, ie., women aren't supposed to enjoy sex, sex is solely for procreation and any other enjoyment of it is sinful/repugnant/deviant and so on, and as these philosophies were embraced and accepted by our society, then "woman on top" became deviant.

I think our society is now in the very long, drawn out and often painful process of working our way out of the ludicrous, prejudicial inhibitions foisted upon us. Thus, we see the change where "woman on top" has become more accepted again in the last "50 years" as the OP points out. I think to truly understand this/our sexual evolution we need to keep in mind that the change the OP rightfully notices and points out for discussion is actually a change *back* to a natural outlook on sex.

True about historical definitions: my grandma told me about the days when "whore house" were just part of the landscape and where many men would be spending their Sunday afternoon.

But even more so about geographical/cultural ones.
Having a foot in a mixed bag, culturally wise, I ended up with very few hang ups, having learned early on that the definition of weird and "not the way that things should be" is mostly in the eye of the beholder.

 

[myinnerslut]

J

Hey now, in my house we call that a fun Sunday night.

my point exactly. what we do on sunday night is kinky no matter how you slice it.

 

[SinfulSailor]

True about historical definitions: my grandma told me about the days when "whore house" were just part of the landscape and where many men would be spending their Sunday afternoon.

But even more so about geographical/cultural ones.
Having a foot in a mixed bag, culturally wise, I ended up with very few hang ups, having learned early on that the definition of weird and "not the way that things should be" is mostly in the eye of the beholder.

Right. And once we understand that, then the next obvious truth/conclusion that comes to my mind is that there is no "vanilla" and there is no "kinky".

Rather, what there is.... is those who are control fanatics, those who are not content to believe in the right and wrong of various sexual practices for themselves and conduct their own lives accordingly. They are not satisfied until they force their sexual code of conduct and accompanying moral philosophy onto everyone else. They are not satisfied until they control what other people may and may not do, and even what other people may and may not think, desire, feel and believe.

Versus

People who do not want to be controlled in that way.

You point out a good example, I think. In the case of prostitution, by and large, the controllers won and forced their controls onto those who preferred to spend their Sunday afternoons at whore houses.

So I don't really see a dichotomy between vanilla and kinky. As a lot of other people pointed out, that line is too fluid and subject to personal interpretation to quantify or define. Therefore, I don't think trying to get a handle on "vanilla vs. kinky" can have much relevance or value to us as we develop and refine our understanding of self, sexuality and society. Rather, I think it would be of far more benefit to us to realize that the question and situation to ponder and come to grips with is not "Vanilla Vs Kinky". It is:

Living Controlled Vs. Living Free

 

[sutherngent985]

When you do it its fun...when someone else does it its kinky

(Just a joke, son)

Really its up to each person to define what is vanilla and what is kinky to them. What other people think, for me anyway, isn't considered. If my partner and I enjoy it, we will do it and everyone else can think what they want.

 

[bridgeburner]

My flippant answer is that kinky is anything you have to pay extra for.


My not flippant but extremely rushed answer since I'm on my way out the door is:


Kinky exists and it isn't all up to interpretation.

silk scarves, playing dress-up, food, making videos, flashing in public, mutual masturbation, role-play, phone-sex, swinging --

It's all kinky.

It's also all pretty much vanilla since it seems more often than not what people mean here when they say "vanilla" is "not BDSM"

And BDSM isn't as dependent on power exchange as some would think. The Texas polygamists are dealing with some pretty extreme forms of power exchange but I don't think anyone would consider what they do to be BDSM.


And now I'm running late so I have to cut it short, but I'll be baaaa-aaack.

 

[Crudebug]

Feather play- not kinky
Fucking a chicken- Kinky

lol - depends if the Chick is two legged or winged as well...

 

[Nymphonan]

I believe that there is no black and white definition of "kinky". It is something that is defined differently by society, individuals, the period of time you are in, the location whether physical, mentally or even what website you are on. What may be universally thought "kinky" by those in ones community could well be considered closer to "vanilla" by those on a BDSM based website. I think that it is also something that each of us defines in our own way and different times in our lives. For instance, my ex-husband thought that anal was kinky and gross but in my current relationship it not at all kinky but viewed as normal (perhaps not vanilla but normal).

I agree with all those before me that have said kinky is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[twysted73]

As it's been repeatedly said Rida...perception plays a very large role in defining this for each person.

If you'd like to know where each of us draw the line, then that's different.
What do I find kinky?
- Rainbow Play
- ATM
- Light Breath Play
- Bestality
- Knife Play
- Blood Play
- Abject Humiliation and physical degredation / defilement
- Beating her until she cries

Many things some might have inscribed in stone on their "Hard Limit" list.
~ Slainte





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