Was she wrong?

[Esclava]

<snip>Hope it was the spiked type, without lube and dipped in sand first!

...after being rolled in lemon juice!

Even though it may appear that she lost control initially, she took back her dignity with every word she used to call him on his deception. IMOHO, she showed incredible fortitude in reflecting the true character he displayed so others could see such a menace for who he really was. Please tell her for me, "Bravo, girlfriend!"

Esclava

 

[RavenSpirit2k4]

They had an agrement that she would have a say in who her sister sub would be. She is not wrong in what she did or in my opinion how and where she did it. He broke the dome/sub trust by violating a verbal/written agrement with her. She had every right to tell him where to put his "collar".



As a dom i know that both respect and trust in is a two way street for both the dom and sub. Both must have it for each other for the relationship to work.

I agree completely. If you prove that your sub can't trust you, you're not a dom/me anymore - you're an abuser.

 

[tn_greeneyez]

Interesting posts. The Dom needed to remember that her submission to him was a gift. I was always taught to treasure and take care of gifts from others, as the Dom should have done.

As a submissive woman, I would have done the same thing. I also would have kept it private if he had.....but since he didn't, I would have reacted in a similar fashion as your friend.

Just because I give a Dom the gift of my submission does not mean that I cease to deserve respect. In fact, if there is no respect and trust.......can there truely be a fulfilling D/s relationship to both parties?

Anyway, just my thoughts.

Tell your friend to hand in there......she's right!!

 

[FungiUg]

Okay, two thoughts.

Neither submissives nor dominants should have to live up to other people's conditions or ideas on how they should behave. It's an individual thing, not some sort of "you have to live your life like this" thing. There's no set formula here. So she can do what's right for her, and personally I can't see how any other response would have been the right thing for her. So my first thought was "go her!"

My second thought is the use of public forums for airing private issues. Now I realise that US TV shows have made this a popular form of entertainment, but from my own experience, chat rooms aren't there for people to have domestic spats. It makes it uncomfortable and embaressing for those others in the room. So she would have been better to deal with the issue privately, rather than in a public chat room. But then, the dominant would have been better to tell her privately too. So that one cuts both ways.

In general, people are bloody judgemental, and anyone who says "oh she shouldn't have done that because she's a submissive" needs to be told to mind their own fucking business and get a life.

 

[Krinaia]

In general, people are bloody judgemental, and anyone who says "oh she shouldn't have done that because she's a submissive" needs to be told to mind their own fucking business and get a life.

Lol... people can be such jerks sometimes.

 

[heckle]

Interesting opinions here in this thread. The way I look at it, there is a difference between a slave and a submissive. But even in a D/s or M/s dynamic, there are feelings that need to to be taken into account. The whole situation should have been talked about and agreed upon before decesions were made. I also see this as being a result of online dynamics where people change partners on a whim. Some people are ony into this lifestyle for an ego trip or because they think it is cool. Others live the lifestyle 24/7. It is not hard to tell the difference between "full time" and "online/part time". One other important part of any dynamic is trust and respect. If you cannot trust and respect your partner, then what exactly can you expect? Now let me address the "submission is a gift" crowd. While I agree with this to an extent, dominance would also be a gift. There are too many people who speak out about submission being a gift when things start to get hard and they use it as a scapegoat. Instead of falling back onto that line, why not trying to figure out what the issue might be and discuss it. Far too often people only look at one point of view. I say step back and look at the bigger picture. While the submissive/slave may have alot of power in the dynamic (afterall, you can not dominate it you have no one to dominate), it is a two way street. If a dynamic starts going the wrong way, it is time to reassess it, discuss it, change it or leave it.

Now I will don a fireproof coat and accept all incoming vollys.

 

[RawHumor]

Being a sub does not equate to being a door mat.

Similarly, calling oneself a "dom" does not give one infallibility or supremecy of any kind. A dishonest "dom" does not deserve loyalty, since he shows no honor.

(wow, I feel like a fortune cookie)

 

[Caitlynne]

Now let me address the "submission is a gift" crowd. While I agree with this to an extent, dominance would also be a gift.

Excellent post, and I agree, Dominance is a gift as well, and to some of us a gift that is seen as greater than our act of submission. I know that as a submissive, I am definitely surrendering something that is valuable to a Dominant--my free will. And I would admit that I fare better when that Dominant values that submission--values me--but for me the true gift is his Dominance. But I think that has to do with the fact that the gift is given to me.

I suppose the one who receives, sees 'a' gift with greatest clarity. I know that I am told all the time how I honor him, but I'll be honest, I don't see it as a gift any longer, I see it as the way it is--the way I am--it's no longer something I am gifting, it is something that is just the way it is. The gift was made in the beginning, and the only time I could retrieve that is by leaving. Once given it is his, not mine to bargain with.

And I'll be honest, I don't want my submission to be appreciated too much, otherwise it upsets the balance of Dominance/submission. It won't feel like Dominance if it is overly appreciated. And I won't have my needs met in submission. Not that I don't want to be valued, I certainly do, but I want to know that I am the submissive, and too much appreciation and I start to feel..... weird.

D/s or M/s is a particular symbiotic relationship that really DOES need the other to make the relationship work. Is there really any way to determine which side of the coin is *most* valuable? And if there is, I'll bet my next month's pay that it depends on the POV of the person speaking.

To me the Dominance is more important, because Dominance is what *I* need. To my Dominant, my submission might be the *more* important thing because that is what he needs me to give him... (although I doubt I'd ever be privy to that particular piece of information if it were true... )

Suffice it to say, the polarity is what makes it all work. There is no Master without a slave and there is no slavery without a Master. Each seeks fulfillment in the role they desire, but fulfillment is really in the interaction with the polar opposite role. So, you're always going to find what you need as more important to have.

As to submissives that use the "gift of submission" as a weapon to subtly manipulate, well, it is topping from below in my opinion. And that is not to say that submission isn't a gift, because it is. It's just not the ONLY gift in a D/s relationship. Any submissive who thinks hers/his is the only gift or the *most* important, is thinking about her/his importance more than their Dominant's, and IMHO that's not submitting at all.

~ Cait

 

[SweetDommes]

Being a sub does not equate to being a door mat.

Similarly, calling oneself a "dom" does not give one infallibility or supremecy of any kind. A dishonest "dom" does not deserve loyalty, since he shows no honor.

(wow, I feel like a fortune cookie)

and you should ... but you are right ... and I'm glad that most people seem to think that as well.

To those who are saying that things should have been discussed ... they were - and the "dominant" broke the agreement that had been made. That is the whole point of this. He lied to the submissive in question. As for domination being a gift and the gift of submission not being used to manipulate - I agree with both, but when a dominant breaks trust, it's not much of a gift, now is it? And I don't feel that she was trying to manipulate him at all - they had come to an agreement together, through talking to each other, and supposedly being honest with each other, and then he renigged on it. She did not ever object to having a "sister sub," what she objected to was the manner in which it was done - totally behind her back, which was not the agreement, and then she was "introduced" to her new "sis" in the public forum of the chat room.

 

[Caitlynne]

[B As for domination being a gift and the gift of submission not being used to manipulate - I agree with both, but when a dominant breaks trust, it's not much of a gift, now is it? And I don't feel that she was trying to manipulate him at all - they had come to an agreement together, through talking to each other, and supposedly being honest with each other, and then he renigged on it. [/B]

Oh I agree, I didn't mean my comments to make sound as if she used her gift to manipulate the situation, because from what I can see, she certainly did NOT. She was betrayed, pure and simple.

I was only rambling (as I am oft prone to do) about the relative merits of such gifts, not about this particular circumstance.

As for his dominance, it was no gift.. and so her submission was taken back. Simple as that, and I still believe she was 100% correct in her actions.

I didn't mean to take this off topic....

~ Cait

 

[SweetDommes]

Oh I agree, I didn't mean my comments to make sound as if she used her gift to manipulate the situation, because from what I can see, she certainly did NOT. She was betrayed, pure and simple.

I was only rambling (as I am oft prone to do) about the relative merits of such gifts, not about this particular circumstance.

As for his dominance, it was no gift.. and so her submission was taken back. Simple as that, and I still believe she was 100% correct in her actions.

I didn't mean to take this off topic....

~ Cait

OK, I wasn't quite sure how to take your last post, but I feel better now

 

[Esclava]

Nice to see you SD!

Actually, I'm the one that has been MIA - I hope all has been well for you and your household.

IMOHO, I KNOW that honor is a by-product of trust. Without trust, there can be no honor. The "Dom" in question did not trust his sub enough to discuss the decision he was making with her and come to an agreeable decision. Then to spring a 3rd person on her in a public chat room is an act so reproachful - I'm wondering how he still has anything left to call his balls (if he EVER had any to begin with).

By publicly dishonoring her and her trust, he got exactly what he deserved - a public dressing down that informed everyone present who and what he was.

Esclava

 

[Esclava]

<snip> It is not hard to tell the difference between "full time" and "online/part time".
<Snip> Now I will don a fireproof coat and accept all incoming vollys.

I shall not throw your anticipated volleys back in this thread - as it would be way off topic. But I shall search for or start a thread that deals with how "easy" it is to spot the difference between "full time" and "online/part time" acts of a D/s or M/s.

I would venture a guess that there are some on these boards who would disagree loudly with that opinion.

Esclava

 

[Caitlynne]

OK, I wasn't quite sure how to take your last post, but I feel better now

Oh, I'm so glad I came back by the thread and saw that'd I'd not been clear. I hate it when I cause a mis-understanding, especially when I'm in total agreement with someone.

~ Cait