What are my options?

[Oceanmother]

The initiative = dominance thing has to get called into question. Again, I've got more flexibility here. Being the one to do whatever and not just have whatever done has never been a turn-off for me. It's a horrible buzzkill to a lot of people who are submissive bottoms, emphasis on bottom.

I think this is what hung me up for a long time. As bottoms we want it all, we want to be spanked but we want him to spank us because he wants to, not because we want it. Having to spell out 'yes, I really really want his', or 'please do this to me, please' was difficult, humiliating, and oddly liberating. Then it is his choice whether he wants to or not, and no matter what, I still serve him, I will never refuse him, and I do my best to please him, sexually and otherwise. Thats not submission, just love.

 

[Oceanmother]

Some are never ever going to do that. They're going to secretly hope that you'll be on your knees when they come through the door though. They may be so good as to tell you once or twice and if you miss the hint, you miss the hint.

Ive done this for him a couple of times

 

[subwannabe]

To the OP: talk it over with him. Let him know how you feel. Even if he is uncomfortable with it he may try to please you and wind up liking it more than he thought.

 

[LadyC]

I've been lurking around here for awhile and finally decided to participate tonight. I am a young, happily married woman. Ridiculously "vanilla" life. Except that after a few years of online reading and mild experimentation with my husband, I find that I want to be submissive. I fantasize of being a true sub. My husband agrees to tie me up with neckties every now and then, and he enjoys teasing me. But I continue to fantasize of harsher domination. Problem: we are a "sweet" couple. I don't think he would ever actually be able to hurt me, even if I want it! I encountered the option of an online dom, but that's cheating on my husband as far as I'm concerned. What are my options (if there are any left)? Any ideas on how I can live more as a sub?

My husband is by nature subservient, and for most of our married life, I went along with him once or twice a month. He would, at first, have me bind his hands behind him, "force" him to his knees and have him satisfy me with his mouth. As time went by, he had me insert a rather large dildo into his anus and whip with a length of bamboo....actually, half of a fishing rod. Eventually, he bought a cock and ball harness which I would fasten in place, and then a riding crop replaced the bamboo switch.

In the beginning I received little pleasure from these bondage games, but as time passed, I found I was enjoying myself a little more each time we played, and by the time he introduced the harness and the riding crop, I was really turned on by it. I suggested playing more and more; then, about six or seven months ago, it stopped being a game and became our life twenty-four hours a day every day. I became LadyC and he became Billy-boy, and I don't believe anything could even tempt me to return to my former self.

Perhaps you husband would go along with playing Master from time to time; maybe he wouldn't, and even if he did he might not progress as I did, but it would be worth a try.

 

[SinfulSailor]

I've been lurking around here for awhile and finally decided to participate tonight. I am a young, happily married woman. Ridiculously "vanilla" life. Except that after a few years of online reading and mild experimentation with my husband, I find that I want to be submissive. I fantasize of being a true sub. My husband agrees to tie me up with neckties every now and then, and he enjoys teasing me. But I continue to fantasize of harsher domination. Problem: we are a "sweet" couple. I don't think he would ever actually be able to hurt me, even if I want it! I encountered the option of an online dom, but that's cheating on my husband as far as I'm concerned. What are my options (if there are any left)? Any ideas on how I can live more as a sub?

Here are a few things to think about:

* The online cheating - You're exactly right. I like your character. Stick with it. Don't go there.

* The first few answers you got suggested sticking with your hub. Then.... and this is the way it works online..... The justifications for cheating, dishonesty and killing the relationship started popping up. Do not succumb to those enticements. They are wrong.

* Your husband has probably had some dreams and fantasies he has had to forgo in order to stay true to his commitment to you. Hey, it goes with the territory of being committed. We all have to give things up. It may not be sexual fantasies, but it can be other things that are important to us. Stick with it.

* I'll say this much for the Lit crowd: They've given you the most supportive and encouraging response I've ever seen on an online discussion community to stick with your marriage and husband. (And I go back to bulletin boards, aol, the MDom email list, etc.) (Dating myself here for the sake of maybe making an impression.) Follow the advice of the people who are saying to stick and to learn to be happy with the great thing you have. Don't let the justifiers of dishonesty sway you.

* Temptation is STRONG!!!!! Hey, we've all been there. Me too!!! It really is strong. Isn't that what you tell your kids? Hmmmmm? But we always end up happier doing what's right. Isn't that what you teach your kids?

* Very important: You chose your husband (I'm gonna guess in no small part) for the very trait(s) about which you are now complaining! I'm betting you had other suitors and opportunities. You chose him because one of his traits was being considerate. Or pampering you. Deferring to you. Making things happen in ways you liked. Treating you with deferential respect. Treating you like a "lady". And so on. ----- Now how fair is it to all of a sudden tell him you don't like the very things for which you chose him? The very things that won you for him? The very things that made him successful in winning a mate? That kind of contradiction is hard to deal with. Give it a little thought. And if you find some truth in it, don't blame the husband too much. Well really, don't blame him at all if he finds it difficult to switch out of that.

* Here comes the ole "I deserve to get my needs met" line. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. My kids used the same line. "I NEED" to spend the night with Johnny ('cause his parents are out of town and I'm gonna get Mary to come over) 'cause he's my best friend. "I NEED" a motorcycle ('cause Mary will swoon and wanna give me head) 'cause I need cheap transportation. "I NEED" to go to Jamaica with Johnny's family for vacation ('cause they don't pay attention to what what we're doing and there's plenty of killer weed on Jamaica) 'cause I made good grades and I deserve a break. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. Whoever told me I deserved anything in life I decided to label as a "NEED" just straight-up lied to me and is workin' for the devil. (Makin' good money too, I'm guessin'.)

* Here's another plug for the Lit group: This is the first time I recall reading the theory "if I'm submissive I'll do what he says even if it's vanilla and I don't really like it". Now THAT is a good line. And will make you happy in the long run. Kudos to the writers who put forth those ideas.

* Another very important thing to remember: Hey! Society has taught your husband all his life NOT to dominate you. Society has taught him to defer to you, opening doors, protecting you, bringing you flowers, being "sensitive" to your needs, moods and desires. Society has taught him to NOT use his actual, stronger physical strength to impose himself or his desires on you! Society has taught him that if he does overpower you and impose himself, or if he strikes you, or does generally "dominant" things, then he will be ridiculed by society, outcast for life by all other women - and probably jailed! Now you want him to do those things. Think about it. If this is very hard for him - understand it! If he can't get his arms around this contradiction, conflict and sea-change in what is expected of him in his relationship with you - understand it! This is a very, very big deal. On top of all that, when society was not teaching him to actually defer to you - it was teaching him that women are equal. That's right. Think about it. Society has taught him to either defer to you, or to treat you as an equal. If it's difficult for him to treat you as a submissive, have you sit at his feet, lord his power over you..... hey, that's pretty understandable to me.

Best of luck to ya!

* Oh yeah. A P.S.: The very same people who will counsel you to cheat, go back on your marriage vows, break your relationship or otherwise be dishonest are the *very same people* who will write on these boards how important *Trust* is!!!! OMG! Please think about it.

GL

* Ok. P.P.S. (haha) Happiness is where we find it and make it. You know that. It's where we *decide* it is.

 

[subbie_333]

* Here comes the ole "I deserve to get my needs met" line. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. My kids used the same line. "I NEED" to spend the night with Johnny ('cause his parents are out of town and I'm gonna get Mary to come over) 'cause he's my best friend. "I NEED" a motorcycle ('cause Mary will swoon and wanna give me head) 'cause I need cheap transportation. "I NEED" to go to Jamaica with Johnny's family for vacation ('cause they don't pay attention to what what we're doing and there's plenty of killer weed on Jamaica) 'cause I made good grades and I deserve a break. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. Whoever told me I deserved anything in life I decided to label as a "NEED" just straight-up lied to me and is workin' for the devil. (Makin' good money too, I'm guessin'.)

i pretty much agree with everything except this paragraph. The examples provided are where people *wanted* to do something but misused the word *need*. There is a difference between wants and needs. Understanding what one needs compared to what one wants is a huge progression on the way to being a healthy person mentally, emotionally, and, physically.

 

[rida]

* Oh yeah. A P.S.: The very same people who will counsel you to cheat, go back on your marriage vows, break your relationship or otherwise be dishonest are the *very same people* who will write on these boards how important *Trust* is!!!! OMG! Please think about it.

Very good overall post, but I have a little comment for the above:

I don't remember anybody endorsing cheating. And I do not consider going out of the marriage with mutual consent to be cheating.
As for breaking the relationship, nobody suggested to do it lightly, without trying first. Sometimes thou differences are such that there is no other solution.

 

[FurryFury]

I agree but even if you have the consent of your partner to go out of the relationship it's worth noting, in my opinion, that many people do NOT know what they can handle in reality versus what they think they can handle in the abstract.

 

[La_Reina]

All very good points, but I don't think I explained myself well. What I mean is my husband is not into it at all. He just does not get turned on by that. We've discussed his fantasies and it's basically lingerie. I've tried the undress me thing, but it makes him uncomfortable to undress me like I'm a child. I've brought up role play and it's a no go.

The plus side is he said he's willing to try for me, but everything I bring up is basically a -I don't think I'll like that-. He won't even try it to see if he'll dislike it. What I'm asking for is any tips on how to maybe ... I dunno... get my husband into something. Nevermind. maybe I'm asking for too much.

 

[Netzach]

i pretty much agree with everything except this paragraph. The examples provided are where people *wanted* to do something but misused the word *need*. There is a difference between wants and needs. Understanding what one needs compared to what one wants is a huge progression on the way to being a healthy person mentally, emotionally, and, physically.

Yeah, imagine considering your sexuality a need, crazy shit.

If someone realizes she's a lesbian or someone realizes he's actually gay how many people are telling them to stay married no matter WHAT?

Every last person would say I was insane if I didn't point out that you may be at an impasse, huh?

The same people who go on and on about SM/Kink/D/s being born orientations treat them like an ice cream flavor when it's time to talk about how important they are when it's inconvenient.

Telling other people the truth isn't doing anyone any favors when you can't tell it to yourself.

 

[Netzach]

Very good overall post, but I have a little comment for the above:

I don't remember anybody endorsing cheating. And I do not consider going out of the marriage with mutual consent to be cheating.
As for breaking the relationship, nobody suggested to do it lightly, without trying first. Sometimes thou differences are such that there is no other solution.

The relationship between people of differing and incompatible sexual orientations IS broken. There's no "breaking" it - it is broken. There's either going to be a great self-denial, cheating, or an astounding compromise on an order unnecessary when people meet and pick partners with sexualities in mind. Not the only thing in mind, but in mind.

Can it work?

Yeah, it can work. The same way that a woman who is functionally bisexual, like 98 percent into women and a gay man 2 percent into women MIGHT work something out.

You're swimming up against a powerful current.

I hate to be negative nancy on this one, but honestly, it's realist ronda, and no one wants to listen to her.

 

[rida]

I agree but even if you have the consent of your partner to go out of the relationship it's worth noting, in my opinion, that many people do NOT know what they can handle in reality versus what they think they can handle in the abstract.

True. What you think you can deal with and what you can really deal with are not necessarily the same thing. That is why even that (going out the marriage with full consent) should not be done lightly.

 

[rida]

The relationship between people of differing and incompatible sexual orientations IS broken. There's no "breaking" it - it is broken. There's either going to be a great self-denial, cheating, or an astounding compromise on an order unnecessary when people meet and pick partners with sexualities in mind. Not the only thing in mind, but in mind.

Can it work?

Yeah, it can work. The same way that a woman who is functionally bisexual, like 98 percent into women and a gay man 2 percent into women MIGHT work something out.

You're swimming up against a powerful current.

I hate to be negative nancy on this one, but honestly, it's realist ronda, and no one wants to listen to her.

After reading the OP newest post, I see that indeed they are on different wave length when it come to sex.

I personally believe that to be happy in a relationship you have to be happy inside first. And if sexual incompatibility or other things in the relationship make you resentful and miserable, going separate ways it the best thing for both parties involved. And the sooner the better.

Ultimately it comes down to what she can live with and what she cannot live without. She can probably try to ignore her WANT but it is going to be impossible to ignore her NEEDS.

 

[rida]

All very good points, but I don't think I explained myself well. What I mean is my husband is not into it at all. He just does not get turned on by that. We've discussed his fantasies and it's basically lingerie. I've tried the undress me thing, but it makes him uncomfortable to undress me like I'm a child. I've brought up role play and it's a no go.

The plus side is he said he's willing to try for me, but everything I bring up is basically a -I don't think I'll like that-. He won't even try it to see if he'll dislike it. What I'm asking for is any tips on how to maybe ... I dunno... get my husband into something. Nevermind. maybe I'm asking for too much.

Sorry but I don't think you will be able to change what turns your husband on or not.

But if you want to stay with him and explore being submissive with him, see if you can channel your submission into doing and being what he wants and what turns him on. But if this type of submission does not do anything for you, it is going to be tough.

 

[Netzach]

After reading the OP newest post, I see that indeed they are on different wave length when it come to sex.

I personally believe that to be happy in a relationship you have to be happy inside first. And if sexual incompatibility or other things in the relationship make you resentful and miserable, going separate ways it the best thing for both parties involved. And the sooner the better.

Ultimately it comes down to what she can live with and what she cannot live without. She can probably try to ignore her WANT but it is going to be impossible to ignore her NEEDS.

Yes. I have no idea if that's the case for the OP or not. Things will be tried. Some may work. If they work there's compatibility. It may cease to be so important. If so, it's an interest, not an orientation, a want not a need.

In my case it was a need. Nothing immature or selfish about it, a sexuality to which I was just as entitled as my then boyfriend was entitled to his, and an unfortunate inability to find common ground on the issue.

 

[ataxia.girl]

I agree but even if you have the consent of your partner to go out of the relationship it's worth noting, in my opinion, that many people do NOT know what they can handle in reality versus what they think they can handle in the abstract.

This is one of the reasons i don't really get on the "mutual consent" band wagon. my husband and i did not get married with our sexuality in mind at all. We did it because we were very religious and its what was expected of us. Our sexuality was assumed. There was aboslutely no consideration that anything but hetrosexual, extremely vanilla, vaginal intercourse was going to be happening or that either of us would even want more than that. i think i finally had an orgasm with him after 2 years of marriage and my story is not uncommon.

After 10 years of marriage i wasn't okay with divorce or anymore self denial. Things are much much much better in the bedroom now but we are not now magically sexually compatible. my husband understands my angst but emotionally he doesn't really share. We have talked about it A LOT. i can't ask him to be okay with me cheating. He knows my desire for other relationships and intellectually he gets it. i will not ask for his consent. i have no desire to get divorced but i do at least want to live some semblance of a life i can call my own.

We live in a culture of serial monogamy. i just don't want to do that. i want my grandkids to come visit both their grandparents under one roof. i want that. i also want to live and not resent the people closest to me because i feel trapped. i like the independence of having a lover. It makes me feel like an individual who finally gets to make a few choices of her own.

 

[rida]

Yes. I have no idea if that's the case for the OP or not. Things will be tried. Some may work. If they work there's compatibility. It may cease to be so important. If so, it's an interest, not an orientation, a want not a need.

In my case it was a need. Nothing immature or selfish about it, a sexuality to which I was just as entitled as my then boyfriend was entitled to his, and an unfortunate inability to find common ground on the issue.

True that.
Leaving to get your need met also allows your partner to go get his needs met. After all if he/she is not the right match for you chances are you are not the right match for them.

 

[rida]

... We have talked about it A LOT. i can't ask him to be okay with me cheating. He knows my desire for other relationships and intellectually he gets it. i will not ask for his consent. i have no desire to get divorced but i do at least want to live some semblance of a life i can call my own.
....

No, you cannot ask your husband to be ok with you cheating (OK, technically you could). But you can ask him if he would be ok with you seing other men. Depending on his answer what you do after is up to you. Your choice, your responsibly.

At any rate as far as everybody involved is ok with the situation (open, closed, ok-as-far-as-I-don't-know, or any other arrangement), to each their own.

 

[ataxia.girl]

No, you cannot ask your husband to be ok with you cheating (OK, technically you could). But you can ask him if he would be ok with you seing other men. Depending on his answer what you do after is up to you. Your choice, your responsibly.

At any rate as far as everybody involved is ok with the situation (open, closed, ok-as-far-as-I-don't-know, or any other arrangement), to each their own.

i don't actually want his consent. i thought i did at first and tried to get it and if i pressed i could because divorce is the option of last resort for him as well but then he would resent me instead of me resenting him. He just gives me a lot of privacy now.

my extra marital relations have far more to do with my not feeling like i ever lived my life as my own and less to do with me not getting spanked. i can't really get out from under the Patriarchy by asking for its consent. i'm aware my personal situation is probably quite a bit different than most nowadays.

i guess i only throw it out there because at first i thought it was all about me getting spanked. i thought if he would just to x, y or z then i would be happy but that wasn't really the case. Sometimes there are bigger things going on than you realize when you start down a path.

 

[rida]

i don't actually want his consent. i thought i did at first and tried to get it and if i pressed i could because divorce is the option of last resort for him as well but then he would resent me instead of me resenting him. He just gives me a lot of privacy now.

my extra marital relations have far more to do with my not feeling like i ever lived my life as my own and less to do with me not getting spanked. i can't really get out from under the Patriarchy by asking for its consent. i'm aware my personal situation is probably quite a bit different than most nowadays.

i guess i only throw it out there because at first i thought it was all about me getting spanked. i thought if he would just to x, y or z then i would be happy but that wasn't really the case. Sometimes there are bigger things going on than you realize when you start down a path.

You have found what works for the two of you and that is all that matters.

I'm free to go out of my marriage and I do. And the reason why it started has nothing to do with anything that was lacking in our relationship, sexually or otherwise. It had to do with the fact that we realized we are both happier when we are free to pursue others if so we wish. Along the path I got interested in aspect of BDSM that are not really on Hubby's interests list (he has his own BDSM list that he explores with me) and as such I am exploring them on my own now.

Our situation is also not common I believe, especially the part were I get to talk with him about my experiences and get him to even give me dating advises rolleyes:LOL). The fact is that he knows me better than myself at times, and talking with him helps clearing my mind.

You are right that you never know where a path will lead you. So far we are lucky that it brought us closer.

 

[ataxia.girl]

It had to do with the fact that we realized we are both happier when we are free to pursue others if so we wish.

i think what we are finding is we are both happier when we are simply free to continue to pursue happiness in our individual ways whether that means other people or a different career or what have you. my situation is not nearly as open as yours but we have discussed many times how much happier i am personally and in our marriage when i don't feel i am being defined by an arbitrary list of things i'm not allowed to do (other relationships included). i think a lot of that has to do with my religious upbringing and feeling so constrained for so long. His desires are different and not nearly as sexual and that's fine as long as i don't feel like i'm being defined by his lack of desire.

You are right that you never know where a path will lead you. So far we are lucky that it brought us closer.

Even though we aren't open about it it has brought us closer together as well by simply removing the resentment. i do tease him that someday he is going to have a midlife crisis of his own and he'll need my support.

 

[FurryFury]

All very good points, but I don't think I explained myself well. What I mean is my husband is not into it at all. He just does not get turned on by that. We've discussed his fantasies and it's basically lingerie. I've tried the undress me thing, but it makes him uncomfortable to undress me like I'm a child. I've brought up role play and it's a no go.

The plus side is he said he's willing to try for me, but everything I bring up is basically a -I don't think I'll like that-. He won't even try it to see if he'll dislike it. What I'm asking for is any tips on how to maybe ... I dunno... get my husband into something. Nevermind. maybe I'm asking for too much.

I understand where you are coming from. My husband just doesn't "get" BDSM and he doesn't want to.

However, he does have his own kinks. If yours doesn't that could make things more difficult.

You can't change him from vanilla to kinked if he has nothing kinked in him. I find it hard to believe that everybody isn't a little bit kinked deep down and crazy but that's just me.

Anyway, you might find my thread below interesting:

The Topping From the Bottom Poll

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=399290

It touches on the subject some.

You also might find this book useful for your husband. When Someone You Love Is Kinky by Dossie Easton and Catherine A. Liszt.

If he says he will try things, then he needs to actually try things. Saying he will and then saying no isn't nice.

Surely, he likes something that you are not that into? You could exchange favors at least.

Try to make sure he knows that this type of thing can come from a place of love and NOT anger like the media tries to say.

Never use the word pain and if he does, gently tell him that you sense it as sensation instead.

Praise any efforts he makes even if it didn't quite do you right. Men are really little boys who want praise, crave it, need it just like women are really little girls in their emotional centers. Feed that and he might "try" a little harder or even find he is into it.

Take him away to a hotel room. A different setting may lead particularly if you make things happen, to a different mind set!

Communicate, communicate, communicate, gently but honestly.

Good luck!

Let us know how things are going.