What does Love-based bdsm look like?

[sinnocence]

tl;dr

 

[BLoved]

No.

I say that bdsm/sex is the physical expression of your relationship/love, not that those feelings get bundled away when you're playing/making love.

Now, please. Do you actually want to try and talk about love based bdsm relationships, or do you want to divert it back to your pet topic?

Let me know now, so I can know whether to continue talking with you or not. Thanks.

I am confused by your need to distinguish bdsm from the Ms/Ds aspect of the relationship.

Perhaps if I clarify what I mean, we can get this back on track.

I do not distinguish between bdsm activities and the Ms/Ds aspect. The activities are an expression of the love, trust, respect and committment in the relationship. As such they intensify the love, trust, respect and committment felt between the two lovers in a way that goes beyond what most (not all) vanilla relationships experience.

In most vanilla relationships neither partner literally and repeatedly places their life in the hands of their partner. There is a degree of autonomy inherent in each partner that avoids such a test of character.

In a love-based bdsm relationship this can happen far more often. I used breath play to illustrate this in "Winter Interlude" but there are many activities which fit this description.

In a vanilla relationship there is rarely any certainty that a beloved will be able to handle the responsibility of holding someone's life in their hands. Perhaps this is why movies like "2012" and "Avatar" are popular, watching people living up to that responsibility and experiencing that degree of committment and love vicariously.

But in a love-based bdsm relationship there is no need for that doubt, because the activities (at least some of them) create the opportunity to trust another with one's life, and to live up to that trust.

And not just once, but over and over again.

This moves a love-based bdsm relationship out of the realm of what most experience in a vanilla relationship where activities are not life-threatening and the trust and love of each partner is not put to such a test.

Should someone who has lost a beloved in a vanilla relationship decide to look for love again, their concern is with finding someone they can love, and who will love them.

But if someone loses a beloved in a love-based bdsm relationship there is that concern and more.

In a vanilla relationship life-threatening experiences are at best hypothetical and most likely to be avoided.

But in a love-based bdsm relationship life-threatening experiences (such as breath play) are not at all hypothetical and more likely to be embraced, even encouraged.

In other words, in a vanilla relationship it is easier to pay lip-service to trusting another with one's life because the event is very unlikely to ever occur.

But in a love-based bdsm relationship trusting another with one's life is very real because events are likely to test that trust over and over again.

Just as there is a distinct difference between these two types of relationship, so too is there a difference in the degree of love, trust, respect and committment required to sustain the relationship.

To lose someone who has risked her life over and over to show her trust in you is not the same as losing someone who has never shown that degree of trust.

And by the same token, to hope to find another who will trust to that degree is much harder than to hope to find someone who will never knowingly risk her life to show that degree of trust.

I am not trying to belittle or marginalize the loss of a beloved in a vanilla relationship. What I am trying to do is explain why I see a difference between that kind of loss, and the loss experienced by those in a love-based bdsm relationship.

From my point of view there is a degree of intensity lacking in other kinds of relationships, and that is what sets a love-based bdsm relationship apart.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

So "causal BDSM" equals abuse.

But choking your pyl (and doing other dangerous activities) in a love-based BDSM relationship equals one of the many things that makes being in a love-based relationship better than any other relationship.

So, are love-based BDSM relationships that are strictly bedroom BDSM (meaning the most they do is spanking, hair pulling, some light bondage, or a "suck my dick now slut") lesser than a love-based BDSM relationship that involves breath play, needle play, fire play, etc?

 

[Netzach]

Officer, I swear, the TIA's were consensual, and furthermore we looooooove one another.
The fact that this clown is advocating edgeplay in his fantasy-based la la land should be cause for reds flag to follow the bastard like toilet paper on a shoe.

Beebs, unless you're a Judo blackbelt, you have no fucking business wrapping your hands around the pretty lady's neck and saying it's because you love her. It gives you a boner, and you're responsible if she croaks. Which she may well. You can croon at her that love prohibits you from hurting her, but love doesn't have jack shit to do with full cardiac arrest.

Now I know a lot of casual BDSM people where the pretty lady KNOWS said risks, and says "screw it, I follow my bliss and it's my body to risk" - IE. it gives me a girlboner and I accept the risk.

but somehow I don't think your partners are actually, if they exist, remotely being made risk aware. At no point are you saying "hey, beloved, when we do this breathplay thing there's a small yet significant stat that you may die outright before anyone can do a thing for you and I can in no way actually control it."

Both of you spend so much time jacking and jilling it to the notion that she's held gently in the Master's all powerful hand where he will allow nothing bad to happen - it's romantic and sexy, but in the case of breathplay it's a great overpromising.

Because you can't Beebs. You can't control it, mitigate it, slice it or dice it any which way - if you are doing breathplay you are doing high risk shit that you, the top, can't control any more than if you are sending her to hike in Iran.

But this is the convenient aspect of steering people AWAY from that awful community with its medical professionals and information.

 

[BLoved]

So "causal BDSM" equals abuse.

But choking your pyl (and doing other dangerous activities) in a love-based BDSM relationship equals one of the many things that makes being in a love-based relationship better than any other relationship.

Casual 'bdsm' (aka love-less, no-strings attached) is not based on selflessness.

It is based on selfishness and thus introduces risks which love-based bdsm avoids through selflessness.

So, are love-based BDSM relationships that are strictly bedroom BDSM (meaning the most they do is spanking, hair pulling, some light bondage, or a "suck my dick now slut") lesser than a love-based BDSM relationship that involves breath play, needle play, fire play, etc?

I think the degree of trust involved is less, yes.

And as there is less trust, so too is there less love being shared.

The more trust/trustworthiness demonstrated, the greater the degree of love and the more intense the relationship.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

I think the degree of trust involved is less, yes.

And as there is less trust, so too is there less love being shared.

The more trust/trustworthiness demonstrated, the greater the degree of love and the more intense the relationship.

lol

Ok buddy. If you say so.

 

[BLoved]

Beebs, unless you're a Judo blackbelt, you have no fucking business wrapping your hands around the pretty lady's neck and saying it's because you love her.

I've heard it argued quite persuasively that martial arts choke holds have no bearing on breath play since the purpose of such holds is to render a struggling opponent unconscious in the quickest time possible.

It is far more important to someone engaging in breath play to understand the physiology of the neck and the brain's requirement for oxygen.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

"What does Love-based bdsm look like?"

A pyl trusting his/her PYL won't kill them during edge play over and over and over.

/end thread

 

[BLoved]

"What does Love-based bdsm look like?"

A pyl trusting his/her PYL won't kill them during edge play over and over and over.

/end thread

~smile~

It is much more than that.

Such behaviour is an extreme example of love and trust/trustworthiness being shown, but by no means is it a 24/7 kind of thing.

Those who read the OP will see this.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

~smile~

It is much more than that.

Such behaviour is an extreme example of love and trust/trustworthiness being shown, but by no means is it a 24/7 kind of thing.

Those who read the OP will see this.

Why read the OP when you summarize it right here?

I am confused by your need to distinguish bdsm from the Ms/Ds aspect of the relationship.

Perhaps if I clarify what I mean, we can get this back on track.

I do not distinguish between bdsm activities and the Ms/Ds aspect. The activities are an expression of the love, trust, respect and committment in the relationship. As such they intensify the love, trust, respect and committment felt between the two lovers in a way that goes beyond what most (not all) vanilla relationships experience.

In most vanilla relationships neither partner literally and repeatedly places their life in the hands of their partner. There is a degree of autonomy inherent in each partner that avoids such a test of character.

In a love-based bdsm relationship this can happen far more often. I used breath play to illustrate this in "Winter Interlude" but there are many activities which fit this description.

In a vanilla relationship there is rarely any certainty that a beloved will be able to handle the responsibility of holding someone's life in their hands. Perhaps this is why movies like "2012" and "Avatar" are popular, watching people living up to that responsibility and experiencing that degree of committment and love vicariously.

But in a love-based bdsm relationship there is no need for that doubt, because the activities (at least some of them) create the opportunity to trust another with one's life, and to live up to that trust.

And not just once, but over and over again.

This moves a love-based bdsm relationship out of the realm of what most experience in a vanilla relationship where activities are not life-threatening and the trust and love of each partner is not put to such a test.

Should someone who has lost a beloved in a vanilla relationship decide to look for love again, their concern is with finding someone they can love, and who will love them.

But if someone loses a beloved in a love-based bdsm relationship there is that concern and more.

In a vanilla relationship life-threatening experiences are at best hypothetical and most likely to be avoided.

But in a love-based bdsm relationship life-threatening experiences (such as breath play) are not at all hypothetical and more likely to be embraced, even encouraged.

In other words, in a vanilla relationship it is easier to pay lip-service to trusting another with one's life because the event is very unlikely to ever occur.

But in a love-based bdsm relationship trusting another with one's life is very real because events are likely to test that trust over and over again.

Just as there is a distinct difference between these two types of relationship, so too is there a difference in the degree of love, trust, respect and committment required to sustain the relationship.

To lose someone who has risked her life over and over to show her trust in you is not the same as losing someone who has never shown that degree of trust.

And by the same token, to hope to find another who will trust to that degree is much harder than to hope to find someone who will never knowingly risk her life to show that degree of trust.

I am not trying to belittle or marginalize the loss of a beloved in a vanilla relationship. What I am trying to do is explain why I see a difference between that kind of loss, and the loss experienced by those in a love-based bdsm relationship.

From my point of view there is a degree of intensity lacking in other kinds of relationships, and that is what sets a love-based bdsm relationship apart.

Are you backtracking now?

 

[Netzach]

I've heard it argued quite persuasively that martial arts choke holds have no bearing on breath play since the purpose of such holds is to render a struggling opponent unconscious in the quickest time possible.

It is far more important to someone engaging in breath play to understand the physiology of the neck and the brain's requirement for oxygen.

Demonstrating your ignorance again.

Ignore carotid sinus at your own peril.

No, it's NOT something you can control. It's much more important that someone engaging in breath play understand the EXACT risks they are taking on to make an informed decision, based on fact and not "amor vincit omnia" pixie magic.

So you don't go killing your sweetie, I recommend a plastic bag over the head that has openings in the back they don't know about, unless they're freaked out over this - you can shock someone out if they're freaked out badly enough - they'll be wrapped up in the moment enough that the bluff will never emerge, plus I found that it's easy to make ten seconds seem like a minute under there with other stimulus. You can still be Master everything great and you won't have to worry about Murder 1.

I just don't think it's that important to be so fucking earnest we don't mind killing one another. Jesus.

 

[BLoved]

Demonstrating your ignorance again.

Ignore cartoid sinus at your own peril.

No, it's NOT something you can control. It's much more important that someone engaging in breath play understand the EXACT risks they are taking on to make an informed decision, based on fact and not "amor vincit omnia" pixie magic.

So you don't go killing your sweetie, I recommend a plastic bag over the head that has openings in the back they don't know about - they'll be wrapped up in the moment enough that the bluff will never emerge. You can still be Master everything great and you won't have to worry about Murder 1.

Carotid sinus reflex death

Netzach, if you actually want to warn people about the perils of breath play you are welcome to start a discussion on the subject so people know where it is being discussed.

I will be happy to participate.

There are many forms of breath play that do not aggravate the carotid artery, including methods for choking.

Again, if you are serious about warning people regarding breath play, start a thread on the topic.

This topic is about love-based bdsm, and breath play is an example of behaviour where trust/trustworthiness is essential.

 

[Netzach]

Free speech community, Bevis - the topic is in your little screed, and I'm commenting on it. I'll take the information where it's clearly relevant.

An MD weighs in.

His is the most conservative opinion out there, but fuck it, it's just the life of my play partner, who cares.

http://www.jaywiseman.com/SEX_BDSM_Breath_Precaution_B.html

 

[00Syd]

tl;dr



Welcome to the Internet!

 

[BLoved]

Free speech community, Bevis - the topic is in your little screed, and I'm commenting on it. I'll take the information where it's clearly relevant.

Not the forum, where everyone can see what is being discussed and participate?

As for responding to your off-topic material, I'll save that for a thread more appropriately labelled.

 

[Netzach]

Oh this one's been done about 23902392 times on the forum already. The memo seemed more scarce here.

 

[sb2009]

i'm choking on my laughter that a BDSM relationship is inherently superior to a "vanilla" relationship in trust and love. Honestly.

My spouse has held me live and sanity in his hands many times that have nothing to do with BDSM or that he has inflicted.

I really enjoy WIIWD but I am not under any delusion that it makes us somehow closer than other couples. And I have had the joy of knowing some couples who have been through the ringer and have come out made of steel together, without a flogger in sight.

I am not trying to take a "pot shot" at you, but man, how on earth do you function in daily life with such an arrogant "my way or the high way" attitude.

 

[BLoved]

i'm choking on my laughter that a BDSM relationship is inherently superior to a "vanilla" relationship in trust and love. Honestly.

My spouse has held me live and sanity in his hands many times that have nothing to do with BDSM or that he has inflicted.

I really enjoy WIIWD but I am not under any delusion that it makes us somehow closer than other couples. And I have had the joy of knowing some couples who have been through the ringer and have come out made of steel together, without a flogger in sight.

I am not trying to take a "pot shot" at you, but man, how on earth do you function in daily life with such an arrogant "my way or the high way" attitude.

We all believe what we believe.

I've known relationships from vanilla to 24/7 M/s, and I would never go back to vanilla.

I would not knowingly criticize any love-based relationship, be it vanilla or bdsm.

I but speak what my experience has taught me.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

I do not distinguish between bdsm activities and the Ms/Ds aspect. The activities are an expression of the love, trust, respect and committment in the relationship.

I say that bdsm/sex is the physical expression of your relationship/love

That's pretty much what I said.

I don't separate the 2, but I have different labels for them.

As such they intensify the love, trust, respect and committment felt between the two lovers in a way that goes beyond what most (not all) vanilla relationships experience.

From my point of view there is a degree of intensity lacking in other kinds of relationships, and that is what sets a love-based bdsm relationship apart.

For me, BDSM is the physical manifestation of our D/s dynamic, so having that emotional connection does make the physical activities better, more meaningful. But the presence or lack of BDSM does not change the fact that we still have a D/s relationship.

And again, I've said the same thing, only probably not as eloquently as I am a not a writer.

 

[Stella_Omega]

We all believe what we believe.

I've known relationships from vanilla to 24/7 M/s, and I would never go back to vanilla.

why not?

I would not knowingly criticize any love-based relationship, be it vanilla or bdsm.

And who decides that a relationship is love based? You, or the owners of the relationship?

 

[ImOnIt]

We all believe what we believe.

Thats nice and all, but some people believe they are the Golden Gate Bridge. Belief is nothing.

I've known relationships from vanilla to 24/7 M/s, and I would never go back to vanilla.

That sounds awfully casual of you...

 

[WriterDom]

It looks like a tear drop running down a tired old face into a nicotine stained mustache as the low esteem submissive leaves skid marks to get away from a month long relationship (based on love) gone horribly wrong.

But then he shrugs his shoulders and fires up a Camel. With a smirk on his face. Knowing that tomorrow will bring him back to the very place he pretends to despise to seduce another beloved.

 

[00Syd]

why not? And who decides that a relationship is love based? You, or the owners of the relationship?

Good question.

 

[Etoile]

this thread needs to be moved to the Story Feedback Forum.

Agreed, and done. Don't forget to use the report button to suggest things like this!

This is not a discussion on the literary merits of the stories.

This is a discussion on what qualities are required to sustain and nurture a love-based bdsm relationship.

The stories illustrate those qualities.

If you wished to discuss the topic, you should have posted a link to the story so people could read it, and then come back to the forum to discuss it.

Because you posted the story itself, the thread was moved to Story Feedback. Editing the original post to remove the story does not negate the fact that you originally posted in the wrong forum. This is a warning.

If you continue to post threads to the wrong forum, you will receive one more warning on this. If you do it again, you will have violated the rule three times, and will be removed.

 

[sr71plt]

I can just about understand that BDSM can be mutally arousing/sought. Love-based? No, I'm afraid I'd have trouble seeing that as a mentally healthy choice. (OK with me if you do, though.)