What is "Pain"?

[Netzach]

Re: hmmm

PS I thought of something else that is PAINFUL to me...TICKLING...i hate it, it hurts...even whilst i am laughing hysterically and trying NOT to pee... [/B]

Now why would she broadcast this to the Sadists of the world?

~N.

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

Re: Re: hmmm

Now why would she broadcast this to the Sadists of the world?

~N.

offering helpful hints!!!!!

pet

 

[James G 5]

Re: hmmm

PS I thought of something else that is PAINFUL to me...TICKLING...i hate it, it hurts...even whilst i am laughing hysterically and trying NOT to pee...

*making a note in your file*

 

[James G 5]

On the sadist-masochist thing-

I enjoy playing with real pain sluts at times, because with them I can truly cut loose and release a lot of things I normally hold in check
I *AM* a sadist, and I can very rarely find people who can take more than a bit, whcih can be frustrating at times
So, even tho I am giving the maso something s/he likes, I am still getting to exercise that side of me in a non-abusive way
PLUS, it's a challenge for me to find ways to stretch the maso to the point of his/her limits, where it's NOT fun anymore
I've described before playing with my friend Catz's boy terry and how using a combination of CBT and pressure points I pushed hom to the point of having more pain than he could handle
terry loves to play with me becuase I am the ONLY person who can walk him so close to that line
It's a great trade, he gets pain he craves, and I get to push him past it to pain he can't quite take, and we both leave with some of what we eant
And I have also posted before about my friend Meredith, who is a true and utter pain slut...I could beat her all day till I was TIRED and she's only want more. In her case, it DOES get somewhat frustrating. So I simply reverted to mental cruelty, using mainly deprivation/witholding of sensation (as osg suggested), resulting in her crying & suffering & being put in her place, while I kicked back with a smile

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

I am now very afraid!!!

Goddess bless...James You have a wicked mind (and i now have more ideas!!!)

And why, You wicked Sadist, are You keeping a file?????

pet

 

[James G 5]

Re: I am now very afraid!!!

Goddess bless...James You have a wicked mind (and i now have more ideas!!!)

And why, You wicked Sadist, are You keeping a file?????

pet

Just in case we ever meet

I need to see if we have a tickle torture thread I can post to...

 

[catalina_francisco]

On the sadist-masochist thing-

I enjoy playing with real pain sluts at times, because with them I can truly cut loose and release a lot of things I normally hold in check
I *AM* a sadist, and I can very rarely find people who can take more than a bit, whcih can be frustrating at times
So, even tho I am giving the maso something s/he likes, I am still getting to exercise that side of me in a non-abusive way
PLUS, it's a challenge for me to find ways to stretch the maso to the point of his/her limits, where it's NOT fun anymore
I've described before playing with my friend Catz's boy terry and how using a combination of CBT and pressure points I pushed hom to the point of having more pain than he could handle
terry loves to play with me becuase I am the ONLY person who can walk him so close to that line
It's a great trade, he gets pain he craves, and I get to push him past it to pain he can't quite take, and we both leave with some of what we eant
And I have also posted before about my friend Meredith, who is a true and utter pain slut...I could beat her all day till I was TIRED and she's only want more. In her case, it DOES get somewhat frustrating. So I simply reverted to mental cruelty, using mainly deprivation/witholding of sensation (as osg suggested), resulting in her crying & suffering & being put in her place, while I kicked back with a smile

Can so relate. We have discovered the nastier side of being denied regular pain play. If life intrudes and keeps us away from our loving pursuits for more than a few days, we become unbearable to be around...snappy, depressed, edgy, and generally far from happy. It is one of the strengths of our bond, he craves to give what I crave to receive...fortunately I guess though I sometimes grumble slightly, he knows when to say no more.

Catalina

 

[Guest]

Re: hmmm

Until this thread, i never really thought about what i consider painful. Most things that are intended to hurt (a punch, a kick, a slap, a cane) only really cause me pain when there is ANGER behind it. Not saying i don't feel like it's painful, but it is a pleasurable pain that i drown in. I lose myself in each lash, each stroke, each hurt.

As with everything else, it's all about intent. (at least to me). I expect that any Sadist who gets me will push me and pull me and torture me (YUMMY) BUT that is not completely painful to ME, thus i would consider it *sensation play*. However, a man or woman, hurting me because they are mad...whether it is a punch or foul words, THAT is painful.

The point is (yes, everyone i do have a point) is that everyone's idea of pain is different. What works for me, probably won't get the same response from someone else. And isn't that the main reason we explore this lifestyle, anyway? To see how far, how much and WHERE we can go to next...Pleasurable or PAINFUL?

just sign me the maso-switch that could...
PET

PS I thought of something else that is PAINFUL to me...TICKLING...i hate it, it hurts...even whilst i am laughing hysterically and trying NOT to pee...

Pain:

Pain is a stimulus - basic, right.

From my perspective, pain is a stimulus that I administer for my own ends, reasons, and desires.
Is pain an advanced stimulus- no. In spite of assorted writings to the contrary. The application of pain can be/get VERY advanced however. And I feel that this is probably what most people confuse. Well that and the emotional component.
It is, however, the most intense one that most of us deal with, certainly on a regular basis.
(HMM well all that certainly sounds contemplative and highbrow)

On the flip side - I inflict pain, or not. Tickle, or not. Perpetuate illusion, or not. For the enjoyment of myself and my sub.
Is it pain, yup. Does it hurt, damn straight. Is it wrong, not if she enjoys it.
Now, I think Im really writing this to clear some things in my own mind. So thank you all for the indulgence.
I find myself wandering a lot closer to things that I have avoided for a long time.
I find that along with the control and the other things that have always gone into being a Top. I am getting a pervasive feeling like I have been keeping part of myself on a leash.
An intolerable circumstance to a Dom.
So now I have to figure out how to let a part of myself loose- and when.
And find someone that sees that as desireable. Not a troll, but an interesting question. How to find someone that like the beast. All of him.

Is it pain ?
Yes but sometimes it's love too.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Re: Re: hmmm

Pain:

Pain is a stimulus - basic, right.

From my perspective, pain is a stimulus that I administer for my own ends, reasons, and desires.
Is pain an advanced stimulus- no. In spite of assorted writings to the contrary. The application of pain can be/get VERY advanced however. And I feel that this is probably what most people confuse. Well that and the emotional component.
It is, however, the most intense one that most of us deal with, certainly on a regular basis.
(HMM well all that certainly sounds contemplative and highbrow)

On the flip side - I inflict pain, or not. Tickle, or not. Perpetuate illusion, or not. For the enjoyment of myself and my sub.
Is it pain, yup. Does it hurt, damn straight. Is it wrong, not if she enjoys it.
Now, I think Im really writing this to clear some things in my own mind. So thank you all for the indulgence.
I find myself wandering a lot closer to things that I have avoided for a long time.
I find that along with the control and the other things that have always gone into being a Top. I am getting a pervasive feeling like I have been keeping part of myself on a leash.
An intolerable circumstance to a Dom.
So now I have to figure out how to let a part of myself loose- and when.
And find someone that sees that as desireable. Not a troll, but an interesting question. How to find someone that like the beast. All of him.

Is it pain ?
Yes but sometimes it's love too.

Sounds perfect to me and also sounds like you are headed in the right direction. Soul searching is always good and I find Lit a perfect place to explore your own reality with the help of the sharing of other perceptions, experiences, and observations. Interesting to see the subtle changes that take place in almost everyone here at some time or another.

Catalina

 

[s'lara]

Pain - coveted and welcomed one moment; abhorred and dreaded the next. The skill? Mixing the two extremes repeatedly into a jarring cocktail.

Pain is a reward. It is a punishment. It's an answer.

Then again, these are just my viewpoints. For some, it's about cleansing, repenting or even enduring without the want or need coming into play at all. Tough to put into words what pain means to me the masochist and have a non-masochist relate.

lara

 

[CutieMouse]

bump

 

[castagnus]

this sorta reminds me of natural childbirth folks who refuse to use the word 'pain' and talk of 'discomfort'. but certainly the 'mental set' is one key.

Interesting you should mention childbirth.

Just over 11 years ago I personally delivered my beautiful baby boy during a 20 minute - bordering on the sacred - birthing process, at the request of my wife, who had repeatedly promised me that her "pain" would be her gift to me. After I wiped my son clean I handed him over to a beautifully radiant woman, as I witnessed another miracle: my son going to breast. Other than the obvious signs of immense straining, there were no outward signs of "pain" or even "discomfort" and she told me afterwards that the experience was bordering on the orgasmic.

Have any of you ladies experienced such elation and, dare I say, pain-pleasure, when you gave birth ?

 

[ecstaticsub]

Interesting you should mention childbirth.

Just over 11 years ago I personally delivered my beautiful baby boy during a 20 minute - bordering on the sacred - birthing process, at the request of my wife, who had repeatedly promised me that her "pain" would be her gift to me. After I wiped my son clean I handed him over to a beautifully radiant woman, as I witnessed another miracle: my son going to breast. Other than the obvious signs of immense straining, there were no outward signs of "pain" or even "discomfort" and she told me afterwards that the experience was bordering on the orgasmic.

Have any of you ladies experienced such elation and, dare I say, pain-pleasure, when you gave birth ?

Yes! I loved labor and childbirth. I will admit to having a bit of Demerol with both children but not enough to really dull the pain. I knew that this was a rare event that could not easily be repeated and I wanted to feel it. I transformed the pain into trying to feel the actual sensation of my baby's body moving through my vagina. I wanted that feeling to last longer. The doctor was rushing me and I knew for my baby's safety, esp my second because of medical issues I needed to allow them to come out but I wanted to pause and just feel that sensation of giving birth.

I wouldn't call it orgasmic, for some reason that squicks me out. It is too pure, innocent and amazing to compare it to a orgasm.

 

[rosco rathbone]

"Ultimately, the purpose of flogging is to inflict pleasure"




Nothing creeps me out like sadists who can't own what they do.

 

[00Syd]

"Ultimately, the purpose of flogging is to inflict pleasure"




Nothing creeps me out like sadists who can't own what they do.

Yeah, when I read that I was like... "I gueeesssssss so."

I mean, that might be the case if the recipient enjoys pain. I for one do not enjoy pain very much, but will still take it for certain people, but since I don't enjoy it, the purpose is very much to inflict pain. The pleasure comes from a job well done, not the flogger itself.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Yeah, when I read that I was like... "I gueeesssssss so."

I mean, that might be the case if the recipient enjoys pain. I for one do not enjoy pain very much, but will still take it for certain people, but since I don't enjoy it, the purpose is very much to inflict pain. The pleasure comes from a job well done, not the flogger itself.

yeah, I guess you could make a case that the relationship happiness when one person is willing to "take it" to please another who gets their kicks from causing pain, is a type of pleasure.

 

[BiBunny]

You know...I like pain. I really do. But I'll be damned if I'll call having my tits split open like a couple of overripe melons with a cane the other night "sensation." Uh, no.

He was teasing me about it later, telling me that I knew I liked it. I sort of chuckled and told him that, no, I didn't like it. He looked at me for a moment like he didn't believe me, and then I said, "There's a big difference between liking something and needing it." I saw the understanding dawn then.

 

[Homburg]

Pain is sensation, sure, but so is pleasure, heat, cold, etc. They all fall under the generic title "sensation".

That said, I don't give just "sensation". I give plenty pain too. Crikey, if I lay a cane on hard and fast, it frikken hurts. The nerve endings in her ass scream "OUCH MOTHERFUCKER!" in no uncertain terms. The magic happens in the brain, where she has figured out (consciously or not) how to flip the switch that interprets the pain as a good thing. It is still pain, sure as hell, but she loves it, needs it, craves it because her psychology and brain chemistry tells her that it is good stuff.

Why do I say this? Because if I tell her that she has failed me, and that I am forced to punish her, all that pain is just pain, and her brain doesn't do the magic to make it feel like something good.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Just my observations.

The problem with discussing pain is that it is such a highly personal and unique experience. Even when I trained as a nurse, the mantra we were taught when it came to assessing a person's discomfort was 'pain is whatever the patient says it is and exists when the patient says it does.' Pain thresholds vary greatly from person to person and it's nowhere near as simple as looking at an injury and assuming a certain level of pain results. I've seen a woman with a sprained wrist weep, wail and beg me for analgesia. I've seen a man who severed his arm in an industrial accident walk through the door with his limb in a cooler and complete a registration form with his remaining hand, almost totally composed. Pain responses also vary a lot between cultures.

Even in my own experience, the generic term 'pain' means many different things to me. In a play setting, with my trusted Master, I have a high threshold. There does not need to be direct sexual stimulation in order for me to enjoy being on the receiving end of his sadistic lust. It's all about the mindset. If OTOH he is meting out a punishment, my threshold disintegrates and everything he does to me registers as thoroughly unpleasant. It is possible for me to experience exactly the same 'painful' sensation in a number of ways.

1. As pleasurable and arousing.
2. As painful and unpleasant but welcomed and endured with love.
3. As punishment and highly unpleasant with zero arousal.
4. As a totally non-sexual incident and mildly unpleasant.

And that's just the basics. The nuances of emotion, physical condition and psychosexual interpretation make it nowhere near an exhaustive list. My pain threshold also fluctuates naturally throughout my cycle, to the point where one hard spank when I'm immediately pre-menstrual is worth three delivered at any other time.

ETA: This reminds me of the old 'rapeplay' chestnut. I enjoy this kind of play with Master very much but if a man that I genuinely did not want sex with forced me, I would hate every second. It's all about the mindset.

 

[eastern sun]

The problem with discussing pain is that it is such a highly personal and unique experience. Even when I trained as a nurse, the mantra we were taught when it came to assessing a person's discomfort was 'pain is whatever the patient says it is and exists when the patient says it does.' Pain thresholds vary greatly from person to person and it's nowhere near as simple as looking at an injury and assuming a certain level of pain results. I've seen a woman with a sprained wrist weep, wail and beg me for analgesia. I've seen a man who severed his arm in an industrial accident walk through the door with his limb in a cooler and complete a registration form with his remaining hand, almost totally composed. Pain responses also vary a lot between cultures.

Even in my own experience, the generic term 'pain' means many different things to me. In a play setting, with my trusted Master, I have a high threshold. There does not need to be direct sexual stimulation in order for me to enjoy being on the receiving end of his sadistic lust. It's all about the mindset. If OTOH he is meting out a punishment, my threshold disintegrates and everything he does to me registers as thoroughly unpleasant. It is possible for me to experience exactly the same 'painful' sensation in a number of ways.

1. As pleasurable and arousing.
2. As painful and unpleasant but welcomed and endured with love.
3. As punishment and highly unpleasant with zero arousal.
4. As a totally non-sexual incident and mildly unpleasant.

And that's just the basics. The nuances of emotion, physical condition and psychosexual interpretation make it nowhere near an exhaustive list. My pain threshold also fluctuates naturally throughout my cycle, to the point where one hard spank when I'm immediately pre-menstrual is worth three delivered at any other time.

ETA: This reminds me of the old 'rapeplay' chestnut. I enjoy this kind of play with Master very much but if a man that I genuinely did not want sex with forced me, I would hate every second. It's all about the mindset.

Excellent post.