What is your idea of total submission?

[RJMasters]

it's something i've pondered often in my quest to know and understand my true self, and i believe that some of us are born to submit as a sort of survival instinct.

it was my Master who showed me that my unique kind of submissiveness was special...

He taught me that being born the way i was was a gift, not a curse. and though i do not believe that any type of submissive is "better" than any other, i feel fortunate to have found someone who appreciates me as i am.

I am certainly happy for you, and for your Master. I don't really think we have any dis-agreement about this at all. Your Master recognizes the special type of person you are. Over time you have learned these special qualities you have as a person, and have someone who you can feel safe and loved in being who you are.


now as for the issue of trust...i think one can submit and submit wholly without trust. total trust may make the act of submitting more pleasant for the submissive, but i don't think it's required in order to submit.

I disagree with this statement. I think one can be wholly obedient, which is not the same as being wholly submitting. A person who is a slave against their will, can submit out of fear of punishment, but inwardly hate their master with everything in their heart and mind.

I am sure there are many different types of relationships, some Dom/mes may not care one iota if their submissive submits with there heart or mind, as long as they do what they are told, then that's good enough for them...however, I think far more is the case, where the Dom/me cares a great deal about the wheather a submissive of theirs is submitting with a "happy" or willing spirit.

In my mind, being a Master/Mistress has more to do with the handling of a person's spirit or inner-being than anything else. Proper behavior should always be an outflow of things being handle correctly on a deeper level.

So if you confine "wholy submit" as an outward obediant act only, then, trust wouldn't need to be involved.

However, I take the word "Wholy" to mean more than just the outward behavior, but also the attitude of the one perfoming the act of submission.

Hence I think it is possible for total submission to happen at a given moment in time. When obedience occurs with a willing and happy heart and mind, then at that moment, total submission has been obtained. This is not to be confused with the depth or level of submission, as I have stated...I believe the depth of the human spirit is infinte, hence the levels or depths of submission one can realise or experience is also infinite.

For many, an enviroment of trust needs to exsit if they are to do more than obey. They need trust to be able to submit with the mind and heart as well.




Thank you for sharing and your stimulating input.

 

[recycling]

my idea of

it is surrender
it is religion

it is the quest to achieve unconditional trust
and unqualified devotion
realizing there is fear and darkness

that deepens both totalities with every thought by freedom of choice

total submission exists within total dominance
the context & the frame



there are no limits

 

[oblivia]

Total Submission

Total Submission....

I have read this thread from beginning to end and find it highly thought provoking.

Mostly, I found myself wondering at how different I will respond now, as opposed to 3 years ago.

Three years ago, I would have gotten all hoity toity about the no limits thing, listing reason after reason why limits are necessary in any power exchange dynamic.

But that was then, and I have come a long way.

I am naturally submissive. It is the role in which I feel most comfortable, most free to express my *self*, the self that feels trapped inside societal expectations. Submission allows me to surrender fear and self doubt and anxiety.

But I digress.

I have had only one Master. He was my first Master, and I seem to always find my way back to Him.

We have grown much together. I left Him for 2 1/2 years over fear, anxiety, self-doubt.

I found my way back and we are still working on building and trusting and above all, He has raised the bar. His expectations of me are high, as they should be, especially after losing me to fear and doubt. This time, He makes no mistake about what He expects in someone who is to be in His life. There is no room for error.

It is simple.

When He first used the word "simple" I nearly laughed out loud. With me, nothing is ever simple. I over think, over-analyze, and just generally over-do everything. I have a hard time bringing back to basics.

But in the end, it IS simple.

if I want to submit to Him, I must do so completely, totally. There is no more half-way. It's not acceptable. It's not allowed.

The result of this is, that a very simple realization hit me.

It's not about what I think. It's about what He thinks. I can over think every order He gives me if I so choose, but by doing so, I cause Him displeasure and anxiety and thus defeat the purpose of submission completely.

That was when I realized that no limits was the only way I could do that.

I have had years, years of trust with this man. He has never hurt me, has always loved me, has always treated me with respect and taken great care with my "limits". But I realized that I use my limits to avoid anything which may prove uncomfortable. I set them up like "protections" and by doing so created walls between Him and I. It got to the point (before) where I had so many limits, that we could hardly do anything without potentially breaking them. And looking back, they were limits on things that were silly. Ridiculous. And then it hit me. I didn't trust Him. I didn't allow myself to trust Him, despite Him well beyond earning that trust.

And so this time, I told Him, it is simple. I trust You. I laid it there, bare, in front of Him. I told Him that I go into this with no limits. I trust Him to know what is best for me. If He asks me to do something that is too much for me, He will help me through it, give me the support I need to do it. And if I try, and find it hurtful or harmful, I trust Him to recognize that, help me, and never ask me to repeat the process again.

It made it so simple. And suddenly, I felt and feel so free. The responsibility, after all, isn't mine to decide what to do or what not to do. It is His. It became His the moment I decided to give my submission, to release it into His hands.

And so I have let it go. It feels amazing, and surprisingly enough, more safe than any other feeling in the world.

Always,
oblivia

 

[catalina_francisco]

Beautifully stated oblivia......there is freedom and peace to be found in TPE once that line can be crossed and embraced for it's beauty and as you say, simplicity once accepted and realised.

Catalina

 

[deka]

Sweden sub

Hi everyone dont know if this is the right place to post this on but ill try ..

im a swedish male sub and i have been trying to find a Mistress now for a long time, and that isnt easy in sweden. i even tried to find a online Mistress but most of them are paysites and i dont wanna pay for it i want the real thing where the Lady realy enjoy whats she doing to a sub. so i found this site and hoped to have better luck here,, just to talk and learn something from you all.

wiht all the tecnikal things now you can watch and take photos of everything and post them ,,so a online session could work.

well thats all for me for now...
hope that i get som respons on this..

thanks for youre time...

 

[oblivia]

Catalina,

Thank you! You're right.. funny thing is though, most recently when I made this enlightened discovery.... it actually was irritating how frequently He would use the word "simple". I felt almost like stomping my feet and screaming out at the top of my lungs... "IS NOT!".

But in the end, He's right. But then, that's why He's in charge right?

Truly, when brought back to it's most basic element, it's simple. I submit, or I don't. In the end, He can't make me, and I wouldn't want Him to have to.

Always,
oblivia

 

[catalina_francisco]

Catalina,

Thank you! You're right.. funny thing is though, most recently when I made this enlightened discovery.... it actually was irritating how frequently He would use the word "simple". I felt almost like stomping my feet and screaming out at the top of my lungs... "IS NOT!".

But in the end, He's right. But then, that's why He's in charge right?

Truly, when brought back to it's most basic element, it's simple. I submit, or I don't. In the end, He can't make me, and I wouldn't want Him to have to.

Always,
oblivia

LOL, I tend to think it is simple once you let go and realise you no longer have to assume that control over your own actions, but far from simple in being able to let go to that degree when your lived life to date has been the opposite...then of course there are days when it comes easier than others and the battle to maintain it is a constant challenge while old behaviours are overome. Well worth the effort though to get that euphoric feeling from being so happy.

Catalina

 

[oblivia]

I think the biggest difference, for U/us, is that before, He catered to me.. and as a result, I manipulated. It was a bad cycle of behavior we started.

After the seperation, now coming at it from a new perspective, He set ground rules from the get go. Either I submit, or I don't. Knowing that, made it simple. Fact is, He wont' settle for less than He deserves, and so it puts the kabosh on my subconscious nasty habit of trying to control/manipulate and/or top from the bottom.

It *allows* me the excuse and the freedom to truly submit, to surrender, instead of just going through the motions.

And you're right.. it is totally worth it.

 

[recycling]

living like you're dying
~just like the man said, moment by imperceptible moment....

living in the moments

there were moments ---excuse me while I lose myself in song, in total submission *smiling* who wouldn't want to be me---

there were moments where I was outside of my limits, I existed for Him only ~ His pleasure was my existence and in His pleasure i was exalted, i feared for nothing ... the trust gained was profound and not realized for many many months

 

[Kajira Callista]

Bump.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Bump.

Good bump KC

 

[Kajira Callista]

Good bump KC

 

[Netzach]

I think it's exemplified by the conversation I had with my slave, H.

"If I were to tell you, right now, right here" we were sitting over coffees at a leather event in Ohio "that I want you to get up, pack, go back to Washington and have a nice life and not call me again"

"...I'd do it"

"...and you wouldn't be bitter?"

"You have every right to tell me to."

That degree of power is the ultimate aphrodesiac.

I think it's kinda good for him too, because he always knows, if I'm talking to him, spending time with him etc. it is purely, more than with anyone else, because I feel like it.

 

[Caitlynne]

I think it's kinda good for him too, because he always knows, if I'm talking to him, spending time with him etc. it is purely, more than with anyone else, because I feel like it.

Yes. This is exactly the kind of affirmation it is. It's the other side of the coin; the submissive's side. This knowledge and certainty is something that ultimately leads to trust and security in submission. Over time and experience, this kind of absolute can drive a submissive to deeper levels of openness and surrender.

It's also why submissives [well OK, this submissive] can find such joy in each moment. Just as the time and attention can be absolutely focused on me, it can just as easily be on some thing or someone else. I'm not a jealous type, nor am I greedy, it's just not my way, but I certainly have an appreciation for the value of a Dominant's time and attention when it *is* spent with me.

 

[Blushing Bottom]

I may be way off base not having much expertise regarding BDSM but I do believe that there is no such thing as "total" anything. A submissive gives all he or she is and has at that moment but because life's experiences constantly rewards and fills one with new and different gifts, new insights, new skills, new desires the capasity for abdication is increased. There is always more to surrender and IMHO itis up to the Dom/Domme to recognize these new gifts and work to obtain them.

 

[BeachGurl2]

I’ve read through this entire thread a couple of times today and each time it makes me think. I’ve never been in a 24/7 TPE relationship, so I don’t know how my answer might be changed by that. Therefore, questioning anything Catalina or anyone else in a 24/7 r/l relationship says equals total submission for them would be ludicrous because I lack that experience. It also means that I respect their experience enough to listen well when they speak of it.

That said, for me, total submission can only occur with total trust in my partner. To know that he knows and respects my value system and moral code, and likely has a similar value system and moral code. To know that protecting me (that “safe” part of SSC) doesn’t just mean physically, but emotionally as well. While he should and will push my limits, there are lines that won’t be crossed because they may bring harm – whether physical or emotional. It's not because we've developed a contract that says so, but because he truly knows me inside out, knows everything about me. He knows the fears that may make me cry out in the night and he knows exactly how to respond to them. He's certainly not going to ask something of me that brings them to the forefront. That does not, cannot, happen overnight, but is something that develops over time. Because he is comfortable in his own skin, and in his dominance over me, he doesn’t have to push silly things onto me in order to prove his dominance. He knows he has my total submission. And he respects my truly emotional limits because breaching them would bring me emotional harm.

We all come to each relationship with baggage, that’s just part of living life and being human. There is a difference between slowly tearing down walls or breaking through barriers to total submission, and blatantly ramming through them to the point of causing emotional pain. When I hear a sub say that she has no limits, that she submits totally, my hope is that she has that kind of total trust within the relationship so that she does remain safe. Otherwise, she's opened the door to possible abuse – which should never occur.

Total submission is a gift of the soul, the very core of my being. The man who earns that will view it as the gift it truly is, and he will respect it, cherish it, and protect it with his very being. Corny? Maybe. But the man who ultimately receives that gift won’t think so, and that’s really all that matters.

 

[Solitude]

Corny?

Not at all.



.

 

[BeachGurl2]

Not at all.



.

Thank you.

 

[rbijon]

A question from a male sub.

I am tottally sumitted to my Mistress. She know it too. So she does take advanage of that. She knows what she wants in sex and also knows that I will submit to it.
She has me get her so ready to cum before she fucks me that she sometimes cums long before I am ready....so I do not get to. This is frustration for me. What can I do?

 

[MechaBlade]

Just curious....

Her only limits are that which causes serious physical damage or will damage relationships, job situation, etc.

 

[chriskchambers]

Originally posted by Shadowsdream
In My opinion total submission is dependent upon total Domination. Domination is not dependent upon abuse or pushing limits that are unacceptable in the most basic *emotional and physical* survival arena. Such as interraction with children and animals. Enough said.

Total submission to Me and in My own world is a no questions asked obedience and endurance. A joyful and committed desire to perform and serve to the best of the ability any task that brings pleasure to the Dominant.

Over simplified perhaps.


I will have to go with ShadowsDream on this one

 

[RJMasters]

From my earlier posts:

It is important that from moment to moment a submissive gives of themself willingly from their heart, their mind and their body, and in that way, live in total submission moment by moment, day by day.

Easier said than done, but certainly the endevoring desire and goal.

I think the depth of the human heart, mind and spirit is infinite, hence the depth in which a person can submit is infinite, so when you speak of total submission, I do not see it as something that can be measured in depth, but more about a specific moment of obedience in which total submission has been reached.

Aside from the normal on going exchange that occurs within a relationship, I often impose tasks or take up a shared pursuit in order to glean specific acts of submission and obedience. But even further I plan these to bring about a kinda of balance I prefer to see and enjoy come from someone.

This balance comes from a planned effort on my part to ensure a relationship doesn't become stale. It also comes from a belief held by me that Total Submission involves all three areas of a person(not do dogmatic but representative) of the Mind, the Heart and the Body.

These assigned tasks or shared pursuits are designed to focus upon one of these areas or a combination of them. I then rotate them on a regular basis.

Some examples might include:

The Mind:
* Reading a shared book together and have discussions about it chapter by chapter.
* Research and study assigments on topics I like or wish to learn about.
* Choosing a topic of intrest to discuss and explore intellectually

The Heart:
* A project which involes a personal expression of love such as writing, drawing, etc...Something which draws upon creativity.
*Sharing feelings and emotions

The Body:
Sexual acts
Pain Endurance
Bondage

Sometimes these things just happen normaly throughout...but I enjoy creating and providing the challenges in way someone can serve me and I do it often with forethought to bring about submission that originates from one of the three main areas.

In most cases, this is often in the back of my thinking as I take time to reflect on my relationship. This also is something that is easier said than done as well. I am still growing and learning in how to maintain a balance. I think often this is more like "my ideal goal". But my idea of total submission embraces the thought that submission should find expression from all three areas, and with most submission all three areas are involved in part, but I also desire specific acts of submission to originate from one of these three main areas.


YMMV....its how I see it.

 

[sexychik69]

I'm sort of with what Netzach said about it being the simple things. Being a sub, I am sure I define "submissiveness" differently than Masters (or Doms, whichever) out there, but I'm sure that a lot of subs can relate to what I'm saying.

For me, complete submission is letting your Master see you in your worst way, and being proud that they are happy of what they see; giving him (or her) the small things you deny other people (some might say giving a virginity like anal sex or allowing them to touch them in a certain way etc.) and things of the sort.

Saying "no" does not mean there is a lack of submission. Saying "no" forever does.

In other words, everyone has a past that has a lot to do with what they do in the present. Every new experience is a new day, and every new day is a new experience. Let's say that a sub does not let her Master experiment with knifeplay with her because she was robbed five years before and held at knifepoint. Some would say that it's unfair for their Master to push them into that, given their fear to it. I disagree. Because of the trust they have towards their Master, there should be a place, a sort of “Never Land” that the fear, pain, frustration, from the past experience does not exist. Allowing yourself, as a sub, to travel to that place with your Master… that is complete submission.

 

[Akumashizon]

Ok I won't pretend I understand any of that but the only part thus far I've understood is that a Dom can pretty much do anything and everything he wants with his slave. In essence the Dom is the master and the Sub is his slave there to please him in any way he sees fit. If that's the case wtf am I looking for a gf for when I can go get a sub to boss around, tell what to do and when to do it? That sounds fuckin perfect! No arguments, no disagreeing with what I'd want, no 'I've got a headache not tonight' (not happen to me but I'm usin that as an example) or any of that crap!
Why the hell isn't everyone a Dom - sounds like a perfet relationship where the guy get's to treat the woman as his personal sex slave!

Or have I misunderstood the whole thing?

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

Ok I won't pretend I understand any of that but the only part thus far I've understood is that a Dom can pretty much do anything and everything he wants with his slave. In essence the Dom is the master and the Sub is his slave there to please him in any way he sees fit. If that's the case wtf am I looking for a gf for when I can go get a sub to boss around, tell what to do and when to do it? That sounds fuckin perfect! No arguments, no disagreeing with what I'd want, no 'I've got a headache not tonight' (not happen to me but I'm usin that as an example) or any of that crap!
Why the hell isn't everyone a Dom - sounds like a perfet relationship where the guy get's to treat the woman as his personal sex slave!

Or have I misunderstood the whole thing?