whatsitallabout

[curiositykitten]

Please don't feed the trolls.

I get your point! Has anyone noticed that Travelboy must have taken a trip and probably isn't paying any attention to all this. I'm so naive - such a shame that people don't really want to broaden their minds!

 

[travelboy]

Hi one and all. THanks so much for all your input i really appreicated the genuine effort and openess; though it is interesting how much we reveal of ourselves by how we read and respond to a post. THe post is genuine, I am not opinionated, judgemental or rigid in my approach to live, sex etc .. but there's loads to read and i want to respond properly. Under the pump so give me a few days.

 

[CutieMouse]

Hi one and all. THanks so much for all your input i really appreicated the genuine effort and openess; though it is interesting how much we reveal of ourselves by how we read and respond to a post. THe post is genuine, I am not opinionated, judgemental or rigid in my approach to live, sex etc .. but there's loads to read and i want to respond properly. Under the pump so give me a few days.

Thank you very much for coming back to the thread; I look forward to the dialogue.

 

[curiositykitten]

Thank you very much for coming back to the thread; I look forward to the dialogue.

I agree - I feel vindicated and not so naive after all! Hope you find some enlightenment within these words, as we all should continue to seek.

 

[Etoile]

I love it when people come back to their own threads. I look forward to the discussion too.

 

[marieR19]

Fury, Etoile, Cutie, pretty much everyone who's replied in this thread...
I love reading your responses, because I never really know how to respond to these kind of posts without getting defensive (a bad habit of mine).It seems like you all help me understand this whole lifestyle a little better, too, as I'm reading this. I love your apple/orange analogy, Fury. I will certainly be keeping tabs on this thread.


Heather

 

[FurryFury]

Thanks Heather!

I'm looking forward to the conversation on this thread too.

Fury

 

[wildest1]

It's all about the people involved, is what it's all about.
It is as individual as can be. No two relationships will be identical.

In my case, I had no clue I would be interested, and so other than a passing glance at "the lifestyle", I knew very little about it.
We decided (more his idea than mine) to give it a try about two years into our relationship.

There is no degradation, at least not in "our" version. He has a high-stress, but successful job, and I have a great need for organization, for reassurance and comfort which is fed by our relationship. It is fairly "vanilla" in its expression, and quite loose as to our interpretation (there is no actual bondage due to the fact of some trauma I've undergone in the distant past), but it works for us.

I am submissive to him, and I find great comfort there, a soothing in knowing the answer that he will provide. He finds the same; comfort and a relaxation. For each of us it is a way to de-stress as well as explore new avenues of pleasure. I find a rare freedom in our new roles within each other's lives.

For all of that, we are still equal.
I suppose I'm as guilty as anyone else for being assumptive or stereotyping, but again, as has been mentioned, don't be condescending out of a fear of misunderstanding.
There are no hard and fast answers. It is what you make of it, as is life itself.

 

[Gabe619]

A lot of people have spoken more elequontly about this subject than I could. However as a Master I felt I should perhaps say a few words, especially after reading my darling sub's (Velvet Bubbles) words. I have always felt that a BDSM, D/S, relationship is a symbiosis, two people fulfilling a need in each other. I won't delve into the subject of what is wrong/what is right about this, many others have touched upon it here, but I will say that one person's normal is another person's taboo or kink. All that matters is that both people are fulfilled, both are happy, both are content and loved.

I have always loved the myth that when the human race was created each of them had two heads, four arms and four legs. The God's were jealous of the human's perfect existance and their happiness and in a feat of anger and jealousy split all the humans in two. Now they only had one head and two arms and legs. From that day on we roam the earth always looking for our other half, the half that will make us complete and whole again and give us happiness for all time.

I have known my sub for only a short time, but already I feel that I have finally found my missing half, the half that will make me complete again. The fact I am her Master in no way demeans that, its simply how we live and the joy we get from each other. It is how we define ourselves. She claims a part of me as much as I claim a part of her, possibly more so. We are still finding our way through this relationship, still getting to know each other, feeling each other out and getting comfortable. I hope this continues forever as people have so many facets that the adventure of exploring each others minds as well as bodies should never come to an end. Where would the joy be if it did?

So we choose to find ourselves through D/S, others try other approaches, other 'kinks' because they feel a hole in themselves, a void to be filled and somewhere out there is the right person to fill that void with meaning, caring and eventually love. I just hope that everyone can find the happiness that the people posting on this thread seem to have done. It makes it all worth while to hear sub's speaking so highly of themselves and their Masters, it shows that this does work, and helps everyone involved grow.

 

[neonflux]

Hi one and all. THanks so much for all your input i really appreicated the genuine effort and openess; though it is interesting how much we reveal of ourselves by how we read and respond to a post. THe post is genuine, I am not opinionated, judgemental or rigid in my approach to live, sex etc .. but there's loads to read and i want to respond properly. Under the pump so give me a few days.

Second, third and fourth the appreciation for your coming back...

 

[snake307]

Sexuality is an individual thing

Everyone has their own personal ideals and desires. Some men are attracted to RedHeads, while others find dark skinned women the most attractive. Some women prefer this, others prefer that. It's all individual, and subjective. Those of us who are involved in BDSM find it interestes us. We just ask that you give us the same freedom we give you.

Live, and let live. It really is that simple. I like the Wiccan idea too, As long as Ye Harm none, do what ye will.

 

[travelboy]

Well guys thanks for all your posts - its certainly given me something to chew on. Its time i stepped up to the plate .- since i started this post.

The one thing i love about this site is the eloquence, intelligence, generosity, sometime wisdoms, and lack of b/s in posts - especially those of a questioning nature. Please read the rest with this in mind. i am still questioning and hopefully you will believe i am stil respectful ...

First off - something that seems to have come up a lot is the question of judgement ..i dont. anyway allowing fear of being judged to limit yr actions hurts only one person - yourself'; we supposedly only get one shot at this existance so we might as well make the most of it (even tho it aint always easy). We are all old enough to have worked out that attempts for universal acceptance are futile.

I am a bit flumoxed as to how to respond to the posts made. But they do demand one.

I suppose that honestly i would give BDSM a chance but it would only be a minor event - something fun( yes yes i am sure i am missing the point).

Sex for me is important and fun and yes an avenue for creativity and exploration but i wouldnt quite class it as a major need and I certainly wouldn’t define myself particularly as a person by any self sexual characterization.

I dont believe that we should necessarily cater to all of our desires. That doing so does not allow for enduring personal growth – but rather how we resist our primal needs (not just sex) allows us to elevate us from our base self.

Specifically iro BDSM my main (but admittedly uneducated) issue with it being something of particular importance in peoples lives [ the fact that some write about a need to be dominated or to dominate or an inability to endure a vanilla relationship] seems to trumpet co-dependency or catering to a weakness.Is it not possible that they would become better/stronger individuals by focusing on why they have this strong urge rather than catering to it.

Look its hard to express myself in detail without writing a seriously long piece and I know some are gonna go to town by picking out some comments. I think its wonderful people can develop a deeply personal, consensual open relationship where they can explore and grow and have FUN. But its seems too codependent.

There was a great quote I once read;

When I am I, because I am I and you are you because you are you and I am I not because you are you and you are you not because I am I then that is where we will find the best place to meet.

Looking fwd to your thoughts.

 

[Etoile]

I don't mean to pick out comments, but you talk a lot about rising above our base instincts, becoming a better/stronger person, etc. The question I would put to you is: what if somebody doesn't want to? Is it such a bad thing if somebody likes living for the here and now, and doesn't want to achieve enlightenment or independence? I understand that these things are important to you, but are they really important to everyone? Complete codependence may not be healthy - some people would die of a broken heart if their relationship failed - but if someone is dependent on a thing, like BDSM, for sexual fulfillment - but not dependent on a specific person - is that so wrong?

I don't think needing BDSM for sexual/personal fulfillment is as set in stone as you describe. Not everyone who is involved in this lifestyle requires it to be a whole person. It's a preferred form of expression, not necessarily a physical component of life as much as a limb or the language center of the brain. (And people can even survive without those.)

 

[museofdragon]

I dont believe that we should necessarily cater to all of our desires. That doing so does not allow for enduring personal growth – but rather how we resist our primal needs (not just sex) allows us to elevate us from our base self.

Who gets the monumental task of deciding which of whose desires are worthy of catering to? Who determines the standard of "personal growth"? The first three words of the quoted text above really say it all -- "I dont believe. . . " That is a choice you are entitled to make for yourself. Whether you are entitled to impose your choice of standards on others is quite possibly the subject for another thread.


Specifically iro BDSM my main (but admittedly uneducated) issue with it being something of particular importance in peoples lives [ the fact that some write about a need to be dominated or to dominate or an inability to endure a vanilla relationship] seems to trumpet co-dependency or catering to a weakness.Is it not possible that they would become better/stronger individuals by focusing on why they have this strong urge rather than catering to it.

Someone on this thread has already used the word Symbiosis. Co-dependency usually has to do with a unilateral meeting of needs. There are some people that enter into BDSM for all the wrong reasons and that would benefit more from therapy. Just as there are some people who venture into ANY relationships (marriage, cohabitation, hyper-religiosity) for the wrong reasons and who would benefit more from therapy.

For an example, just because large numbers of young people get married in their late teens and early 20's primarily to "run away from home" or to "feel grown up", does not make marriage a practice without merit or one that is demeaning.

As for some of our feelings on being unable/unwilling to stay in a vanilla relationship, do you also feel that homosexuals are codependent? Probably in excess of 99% of homosexuals would tell you that they would not be able to endure a heterosexual realtionship? Should they focus on why they have these urges and try to be stronger better people? Or is that different, somehow?

It may not have been your intention to be judgemental in your original post, but that is how it reads. i completely respect your right to say, "i belive this to be wrong and unhealthy, so i will not do it." That is not what comes across in your post. What comes across in your post is, "i believe this is wrong and unhealthy, so how can YOU do it."

Just out of personal curiousity, what is it about BDSM that you find so demeaning? You use the term "catering to a weakness" and i assumed you meant submissives in that. Have you ever considered the kind of down in your belly guts and trust and strength it takes to say to another, "i trust you enough to submit to you." Surrendering my will to Dragon, sets my soul free to soar and tumble among the clouds.

After more than a decade being involved in BDSM, i will tell you the primary difference that i have discovered between BDSM'er and Non-BDSM'ers. Most of us who practice our BDSM would never even think of telling someone that they should adjust their personalities, desires and needs to fit BDSM. However, non-BDSM people usually have no problems with telling us that we should adjust our desires, and personalities and needs to what the world has chosen to call normal.

Again, i have probably only confused the situation more.
As always, just my tuppence. Your mileage may vary.
muse

 

[Quint]

...........

 

[Etoile]

Again, i have probably only confused the situation more.

On the contrary, I think your post was outstanding. Really well articulated and brilliant.

 

[museofdragon]

On the contrary, I think your post was outstanding. Really well articulated and brilliant.

Thank you very much. ~~blushing, curtsying, and scurrying back into my shadowy corner~~

 

[travelboy]

Hmm just jumped back in .. to clarify .. eveything i say is my opinion about how i should live my life. that doesnt mean i negate the way other people live theirs. museof dragon - i share only my own views about my own life - no one else. and is that not the purpose of this forum - otherwise why would be bother sharing. why should we all be held to the same yardstick (almost ironic here)

museofdragon you raise some interesting points that certianly flesh out areas i want to consider - after all that is part of the reason for my post- and i cant believe i am the only one asking these questions. . i dont agree with your reading of my post - and that i guess is my fault.

in fact that others may live their lives differently and are preapred to share gives me opportunity to question my own views and reevaluate whether they are condusive to me folowing the best path for me. sorry if this was not clear. i hear what you say about homosexuality .... is it really analogous? interesting point.

as to having the strength to allow yrself to submnit to another .... following my original thought flow - why not having the strength to not submit or to follow a path where you really challenge why you need to submit to another and deal with any underpinning issues. I take yr point on non bdsmers vs bdsmers - but isnt that then food for thought - the fact that you have then chosen to walk the other path - sorry if you think that this is becoming tiresome

etolie - you are spot on. just enjoying simple pleasures might be enough for others. but not for me ..though sometimes i think you have a received a real gift -. thats just the straw i pulled - no better or worse just different. the bad thing with short posts is they by necessity dont cover all - however the way some people post here - to them it seems their expression here is as important as a limb.

either way i got a feeling i am gonna come back to read yr posts again.
gnite.

 

[WriterDom]

The key word is consensual. Generally, I think submissives are a happy lot. They aren't asking to be cured. In fact, we've had 100s of threads asking how can I make my partner Dom. I can't remember one asking how do I cure my submissive tendencies.

 

[BiBunny]

Just because someone wants to submit does not mean that person has any "deep underlying issues." Yes, like Quint said, there are always people who use their relationships as a crutch, but that doesn't mean that all of us do. Whether you realize it or not, you're coming off as very condescending.

Pardon me if I'm a bit bitter right now. I'm in the midst of probably ending my relationship with my Master, so I'm a bit touchy about my submission. Just because my heart is breaking, and I would do most anything to salvage the relationship at this point does not have anything to do with the fact that I stood on my own before I met him and will continue to stand on my own after the relationship is over and done with, be it now or later. My own personal strength and my submission (or dominance--I'm a switch) run parallel to one another; they are not entwined.

 

[museofdragon]

why should we all be held to the same yardstick (almost ironic here)

But you seem to want to hold others to your yardstick of what you consider healthy. You admit to little knowledge about the subject, so i presume you would also have a commensurate level of experience. Yet you presume to judge the health or lack of it. .

i dont agree with your reading of my post - and that i guess is my fault.

Words can be difficult, particularly in this medium. It is easy for you to know exactly what you meant, because it came from your head. There may be reams of thought processes that went into the post that other readers have no conception of. You have to help us out.

in fact that others may live their lives differently and are preapred to share gives me opportunity to question my own views and reevaluate whether they are condusive to me folowing the best path for me. sorry if this was not clear. i hear what you say about homosexuality .... is it really analogous? interesting point.

Both homosexuality and BDSM involve sexual and lifestyle preferences that do not fit into the mainstream, and therefore are marginalized and even in some places criminalized. But what i was actually attempting to point out was that the traits you call codependent in BDSM also exist in homosexual relationships.


as to having the strength to allow yrself to submnit to another .... following my original thought flow - why not having the strength to not submit or to follow a path where you really challenge why you need to submit to another and deal with any underpinning issues. I take yr point on non bdsmers vs bdsmers - but isnt that then food for thought - the fact that you have then chosen to walk the other path - sorry if you think that this is becoming tiresome

Hold on to your hat, here's a wild thought. What if there are no underpinning issues? What if a percentage of submissives or Dominants or Switches are actually "hard-wired" to what they need, the same way that the latest research says homosexuals are.


gnite.

If this is not your path, then no one is going to force you to take it. But, perhaps, maybe, just ease off of the assumptions that it is unhealthy just because you do no understand it.

 

[CutieMouse]

as to having the strength to allow yrself to submnit to another .... following my original thought flow - why not having the strength to not submit or to follow a path where you really challenge why you need to submit to another and deal with any underpinning issues. I take yr point on non bdsmers vs bdsmers - but isnt that then food for thought - the fact that you have then chosen to walk the other path - sorry if you think that this is becoming tiresome

I'm only snipping this part of your post, because it brings me back to my original question:

How did you reach the conclusion that BDSM is about debasement, or being lesser, or that if one submits they have underpinning issues? Are your views colored by soceital's (usually misunderstood) views of BDSM? Porn? Watching friend's BDSM relationships from the outside (which may or may not be healthy ones)?

Also, I'm still a bit wonky (not enough caffeine yet ), but you seem to be focusing on the negativity of BDSM with regards to submission... do you have negative veiws of those who take (consensual) control, also? If so, why?

 

[neonflux]

as to having the strength to allow yrself to submnit to another .... following my original thought flow - why not having the strength to not submit or to follow a path where you really challenge why you need to submit to another and deal with any underpinning issues. I take yr point on non bdsmers vs bdsmers - but isnt that then food for thought - the fact that you have then chosen to walk the other path - sorry if you think that this is becoming tiresome

Again, you talk as though someone involved in BDSM has "underlying issues" that those who do not pursue it don't. We all have issues, regardless of our sexual proclivities. We also have a capacity to move towards wholeness. In my experience, BDSM has a tremendous capacity to heal. (And it's fun!) BTW, most of the subs that I know are very strong and balanced. (Just look at the regulars on this board.)

There is tremendous strength and beauty in submission. I am switch, but I'm not very good at this aspect of the equation. I have a great deal of respect for those who are. It can be a tremendous and overwhelming gift. There is, despite your protestations otherwise, tremendous judgment in your comment here. Your continual focus on this point makes me wonder...

~ Neon

P.S., BTW, mine is not the only thread on the healing powers of BDSM, but for what it's worth... https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=519818

 

[Little_Kitten]

as to having the strength to allow yrself to submnit to another .... following my original thought flow - why not having the strength to not submit or to follow a path where you really challenge why you need to submit to another and deal with any underpinning issues. I take yr point on non bdsmers vs bdsmers - but isnt that then food for thought - the fact that you have then chosen to walk the other path - sorry if you think that this is becoming tiresome

I don't really get this part. If I chose to not submit to anyone, it would be like repressing a part of myself... :-/ There aren't any underlying issues. Some of us are just submissive, why should we choose not to submit though?
Repressing that part of ourself, just because we can, would cause more harm than good. For some of us, it's not a matter of choice, but staying true to ourselves, and keeping ourselves happy and fulfilled.

And BDSM for some, isn't all about sex. For me it's more than that.

 

[Chris_Xavier]

After more than a decade being involved in BDSM, i will tell you the primary difference that i have discovered between BDSM'er and Non-BDSM'ers. Most of us who practice our BDSM would never even think of telling someone that they should adjust their personalities, desires and needs to fit BDSM. However, non-BDSM people usually have no problems with telling us that we should adjust our desires, and personalities and needs to what the world has chosen to call normal.

I think you hit the nail on the head with that paragraph. It always seems like the ones not participating (and I'm not just referring to BSDM) are the ones who are quick to condemn what they have no or little knowledge of.