Where do you think your dom/sub side's psychological origin is?

[Evaleastaristev]

I honestly doubt that my past has anything to do with my submissiveness. It's just a natural thing for me to submit to sumbit to my Master. Now, my past may have something to do with the fact that I want to be taken care of, but not the submissive side of me.

But then, even if I wasn't submissive, I would still want to be taken care of emotionally. There's nothing to it but the fact that
I've had to take care of myself all my life, and don't want to any more.

 

[ErosJ]

Bipolar Dichotomy

First let me say I have found all this enlightening. I can say for myself that I see the origins of a switch personality in that of my parents.

Dad is a submissive, anal retentive, caring man. Always very clean and not real strict, I'm the youngest and was able to manipulate him. Will not recognize anyone as a victim. Not that he's mean, far from it. Dad made me feel as though I was in control.

Mom was God. Manipulative and controlling in subtle ways. Codependant and manic depressive. Possibly sociopathic. Very messy, chaotic, loves playing the victim to get what she wants. From her I learned that being out of control WAS control.

I also lived with each parent individually for seperate long periods of time. With Mom I was the youngest, the only boy, with two sisters. With Dad and the StepBitch I was the eldest of three boys.

I love both my parents equally and have reconciled within myself the imperfect parts of thier personalities. Still having two parents with such different ways of dealing with life led to me being a little split. Add to that learning opposite roles in two sibling triangles and well. . . I wouldn't go as far as to say those are the only reasons for my development into a switch but definitely major ones.

Acceptance Has Nothing to do with Approval

 

[Guest]

i've no doubt that who we are is something innate. something that is within us at time of conception, however, we are molded into who we are by our environment as well. with that being said, i believe i am submissive because that is who/what i have always been with a splash of molding by familial influence.

my family probably supports the definition of dysfunctional more than most. alcoholism/divorce/remarriage and selfish parents who let their kids grow up on their own with minimal guidance.
mom, in my eyes, was so weak in many aspects and strong in others. she did what she was told and had difficulties making descisions on her own. she was happiest when someone was taking care of her. dad, i later came to find out was a bondage entusiast with an insatiable lust for women.

pleasing. serving. loving thoroughly. these three things are my mental building blocks of any relationship ive ever had. and while i seem to be following in mom's footsteps to a certain degree, i do not see being submissiveness as the ability to be weak, but rather the ability to be strong with the noble conviction of supporting the dom/domme in a relationship.

did that make sense? i'm not sure. strength is an intoxicant to me unless that strength is abused. a smile from my domme will thrill me to no end. pleasing her is what pleases me. i am who i am because i have been born to be this way, molded by my enviornment as well.

 

[AvaAdore]

i think i was just born with it. i can't think back to a particular event. when i learned what BDSM was and what being submissive was, i though "oh yea, that's what i am". or at least that's what it was called.

from my earliest memories, i was fascinated by pain and punishment. it manifested itself in different ways. when i was 12 i was obsessed with UFOs and people being abducted by aliens and having things done to them.

my parents didnt have the most fantastic relationship, but they are still together and they were never abusive. i've had a pretty good childhood. at school i got on ok with most kids, though i was never extremely "popular", nothing bad ever happened.

 

[Xelebes]

To identify the catalyst for my submissiveness would cause me to go beyond that which is not within the bounds of my memory. As has been said before, I was born submissive.

Significant events? Lots of them, too much to bother list them and not bore you all.

 

[barcaboy]

When it comes to erotic focus, I'm a mess - or is that wonderfully abundant? A sub who transmogrified somewhere along the way into a Dom, "phreak" is probably a better all around epithet.

Some interesting contrasts - my mother from a very conservative, long-established New England family, my father poor but aspiring Southern. They divorced when I was five, my Dad basically vanished, and I grew up around my mother's family in NE. Having no male figure around except for my retired college-prof grandfather, the Guy Template was tabla rosa - a blank slate that invited scribbling. My mother? Alcoholic and manipulative, either absent or hysterical, borderline sexually abusive - yeah, the sub side got some tender early nourishment. But I always saw what I was going through as a voyage/spiritual amusement park, even when I was tiny and would bury my head in my pillow to "see the stars". The life in my head was the real throughline. Whatever was happening around me that I couldn't control faded into obscurity and insignificance, minor interference with the channels of enlightenment and delight that truly mattered.

I see genetics as only part of my puzzle, though some people seem born Dom or sub, their personality clearly pronounced one way or the other. Only the repressed (small town NE, anyone?) have the opportunity to become truly bizarre. As more observer than activist, I could let my fantasies brew and my peccadillos simmer. It wasn't until I moved to southern California, after college, that I felt free enough to express myself in action.

 

[esclave_PP]

Hmmmm what a dark and wicked path we follow sometimes. Not really but thought that sounded good.

I have thought about this long and hard for a long time actually.

For me, I think it stems from my abuse as a kid from the hands of my very dominant Grandfather. At the age of 5 he had me kneeling, he commanded me to do all kinds of things to him and for him and basically had me as a submissive. I have vivid memories of this. It didn't stop until I was 14 when I told him, will all my will to stop. I will never forget the look on his face. He looked pained and rejected. Weird day.

But from that point forward, especially sexually, I have always been a submissive. I do not feel comfortable as a top even though I have dommed females. I cannot domme men however. Never have been able to. I am most comfortable in my submission. Master calls me a natural submissive. I am not sure exactly what that means. He says that being a submissive is essential to my core that it is in every cell of my being. Like a desert bloom....waiting to be awoken...

Being a submissive is all I know. It is where I am comfortable. In almost all of the M/s relationships I have been in, I've always been the submissive. It just wreaks havoc with my mindset if I am otherwise. It confuses me and leads to situations where I get lost and fumble over myself.

 

[Rugor]

Hard to tell whether it was inborn in Me or developed out of My childhood.

I had the classic white picket fence family, My parents are still together and have been liviing in the same house for thirty years now.

Growing up I was one who normally stood somewhat apart, on the edge of many groups rather than the center of one; but always sure I knew more than they did.

I think that's part of it, I've been told (I hadn't noticed it before it was mentioned to Me) that I can be very arrogant, which probably comes from My confidence that I often know what's best. When I am right I am right and everyone else has the right to be wrong.

I became aware of My D/s side more through anal play than anything I think. I've always loved anal sex, seeing it as a woman's ultimate surrender, but there's more than just that. I discovered that I loved training a woman to take pleasure from her anus, even if she'd never been into anything like it before.

So in the end I guess My development comes down to the fact I know what's best.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

Origin of Dom Personality

To quibble with the topic, and thus agree with Etoile... my Dominance is not a "side" of me - it is me. I think the only way you can discuss a Dominant or submissive "side" is if you're discussing a switch.

That said, the root question is: Where does one's Dominant or submissive personality originate?

I tend, for myself only - because that's the only person for whom I am qualified to speak - to agree with those who believe their Dominant or submissive nature is inherent in their basic personality.

Without undue ego, I was the brightest and most academically-advanced of my peers in the primary school years (grades K-3). Brightest, by the fortune of inheriting a gene of intelligence from both parents, who were themselves bright, though relatively uneducated (raised in the Depression years, neither graduated from high school until their 30s - but they both went on to accumulate enough credits to graduate from college, had they concentrated them in one field of study instead of spreading them among various disciplines that interested them at the time). Most academically-advanced, because my intellectual curiosity and impatience led me to learn to read at a very early age (3), because I didn't want to wait for (a) my mother to read to me, or (b) my older brother to read to me, because he read too slowly (orally) and without voice characterization of what was happening. Therefore, I decided to learn to read, and required that my mother, when reading to me, follow the words she was reading with her finger as she read. {Hmmm... early Dominance?} I quickly learned the patterns of the words and sounds, and began reading for myself.

At the end of the first half of second grade, I had read all the books in the second grade library (each grade had its own library), and many of the books in the third grade library, and was so far ahead of my classmates in all academic pursuits that they put me into the third grade. Added to this was the fact that despite the fact that my birthday is at the end of November, the school agreed to let me in early, even though the cutoff for birthdays was supposed to be September 15th, because I was able to demonstrate academic skills (reading, counting, colors, etc.) that most of my classmates would have to learn during the year. I was, thus, nearly two years younger than the majority of my new classmates.

I quickly learned that since they were physically larger, stronger, and more coordinated than I (as a result of longer time to develop), the only way I could retain my own sense of self-worth was through the faculty which had gotten me into this situation to begin with: mental superiority, or dominance. My self-confidence (which was, looking back on it, completely unfounded!) was such that I immediately became a leader in almost every aspect of social interaction. Even though I was one of the worst at athletics or recess games, I was usually one of the captains - because they recognized that I would *lead.*

That worked well for me - until my parents remarried, and we joined my father in his military perambulations. Moving to a new school, in a new state, no one there knew me, or knew of my superiority, and what they saw was a scrawny, smaller, younger kid who expected (because it had always been so) to be a leader when he walked through the door. Needless to say, that went over like the proverbial lead balloon. The kids who had already established their leadership positions in the social clique weren't going to give them up - so I ended up the leader of the bright, less socially-gifted misfits. I was damned if I wasn't going to be the leader of some group!

Of course, that situation only grew and intensified as I grew older and the age difference became more socially important - junior high and high school. I was always at least one year, and often two or even three years younger than my classmates - and mentally quicker and brighter than the great majority. I always had my group of misfits - and they were mine - and used my quick tongue to flay Shylockian bits of flesh from the others. Of course, that got me into trouble a lot - like the time the high school's football hero walked up to me and asked, "As an outsider, what do you think of the human race?" I calmly looked him up and down and responded, "Not much," with a nasty grin. Sixteen seconds later, after he had grasped the meaning of what I had done and said, I was sprawled on the hallway floor gasping for breath from the solar plexus shot I'd taken...

Yet, for all of that, I was not going to surrender my intelligence, my pride, or my will to others. I would be who and what I was - and what I am to this day. I do not "follow the madding crowd," nor do I seek their approbation or acclaim. I follow my own nature, which is to be Dominant. In sitting here and writing this, I realize that that last statement is going to require a new thread... or two, only one of which I am qualified to start. If you're interested, look for a thread titled, "What does it mean to be a Dominant?" I'll leave it to someone else to start one titled, "What does it mean to be a submissive?" since I intend to start mine with a general statement of what I feel Dominance entails...

 

[Pure]

Hi Marquis,

I'd like to say something here (esp. in response to your kind invitation), but your question seems not quite right. While you do say that 'dom' is merely one part of you, the rest of the post focuses on that part, linking it possibly to an alleged rape etc.

While I don't know each poster, I doubt the 'dominance' is always the *dominant feature of everyone. Same for 'submission.'

The sexual tastes and impulses are a complex set. A key element *not being discussed here is sadism, and based on some cyberchatting, marquis, I believe that's quite prominent in you and that 'dominance' can't be dissociated.

So we get to the topic of cruelty witnessed and undergone. My own father was a militaristic, authoritarian type, at time capable of rather great cruelty. You mention early fascination with rape. I will mention a thread that's in me and lots of others around here, fascination with torture. I think the love=torture or sex=torture connection is often learned.

Addition: The other question that is confused here is the origin of two other impulses, rage (as per roscoe) and aggression. Neither of these makes one a 'dominant' person, though possibbly an occasional 'top.'

 

[Marquis]

Hmmm, could be I'm more of a Top than a Dom.

 

[Technodivinitas]

Lack of discipline.

I have admitted in some of my posts to having had bottomy desires even before I was aware of the concept of sexuality- age four or five- but never the less, I feel that these were either encouraged by, or originated in, my childhood neglect. My parents were both clinically insane, and while they definitely raised a wonderfully independant thinker, they also very much failed to teach my sister & I how to function in society. So you might say they raised extra-intellectual neandrethals. We can cook and dress ourselves, but when it comes to living in any way beyond hand-to mouth, live-for-the-moment, we're kinda helpless. Long-term plans & goals? You're kidding, right? Not a clue. I was in my late 20s before I even understood that a person could have role models, and sought some out, though at that point I used them rather ineffectively.

I half jokingly refer to myself as the "Bastard daughter of gypsy piano-tuners", which is kinda like saying "raised by wolves".
I was given all the intellectual stim. I could desire, and more, but as far as discipline, (and understanding of self-discipline, even more relevantly,) virtually none, except on the rare occasion that a social worker'd get ahold of them, and they'd feel guilty, and go all-out, burying me in rules with no basis, history, or undersanding, then punishing recklessly but relentlessly, untl, (all to soon,) they'd realize that my will was entirely stronger than anything they could manage. * * (You might say I'm a little... spunky?)

So yes- even at that young age, I believe that I understood that I lacked discipline, and that I desired it, even though my child mind would have (and did) resist it with much passion. Kids rebel. And I believe that rebelion is a necessary part of the disciplinary process.

 

[ethereal~minx]

I remember when I was a 11years old being very conflicted about religion and God and trust. I went to Christian Science Church, occasionally listened to religious programs on television but what I heard all seemed to either conflict with eachother or in some other way be conflicting to me~ I remember hearing about priests being in trouble for molesting children. Here were all of these passionate God-Loving people preaching God's word and who was I to listen to? Who was I to trust when clearly I needed to trust in God and I needed someone else to show me the way! but why would I choose one over the other? why would I listen to this person just because my grandmother does? or why would I listen to the other just because he's on TV? I came to the conclusion that the truth lies within us, not in a church or a religion~~ I actually said to myself, we, each of us individually are God~ faith is found within, not externally ...that scared me, I didn't say it again or to anyone for fear it would --I would have to go away somewhere *laughing* in a straight jacket

so I kept it to myself because of that fear and judged myself for a very very very long time... I didn't know how to handle that information I had found/been given and I certainly had no reference to guide me...

then I met my first Dom. the value I found in myself through online interaction and the withdrawal of that dominant care where once I had found trust led me to become aware of my submission.

 

[graceanne]

Actually, I've kinda thought this over myself before, wondering what makes me and others what they are. I know that I am new to posting on these threads, so you probably don't care. *shrugs*
Both my mom and my dad are dominant people. That's probably why they didn't stay together very long. lol Anyway, they both are also recovering drug addicts, but they weren't recovering when I was younger. My mother is also a rage adict, and was very abusive, physically, emotionally and mentally. None of that changed after she stopped using. I've been told that I was a very sweet child, and I do know that I did most of the raising of my little sister. I'm also an army brat, and like many others went from social butterfly to 'who gives a fuck'.
I remember having vague submissive fantasy's at a very young age (6, 7, 8, somewhere around there). Then when I was 14 I had my first boyfriend. It didn't last very long, he was just looking to get laid (duh, he was 14), and when I didn't put out, he dropped me.
But I got to thinking about it later, and I realized that he wasn't very handsome, or very smart, but I was still attracted to him. He wasn't very nice, and I had a feeling he was physically abusive. Oh, and he was definately the dominant person in our relationship. And yet, I was still attracted.
It was then that I acknowledged to myself that I found men who . . . . how do I say this? Guys like my first boyfriend I found very attractive. I could and can tell if a guys like that by my first reaction to him. If I look at a guy and get wet, I know that he at least has the ability of abuse. So I got careful about who I encouraged.
Consequently I didn't date anyone else for 2 years. (It helped that we moved to a bigger city and there was a much better selection of guys.) My next two boyfriend were more of learning experiences than anything, since they both dumped me after two weeks. lol - I would have dumped me, I was down right neurotic. Then I decided to date a friend. Boy was that a mistake, but I did learn that I can't respect a man who doesn't have a will that is at least as strong, if not stronger than mine. Soon after that I started dating my husband (yes, that's right I've only ever dated a total of 4 guys).

Now, as to why I think I'm the way I am. I think that I was probably born with a more submissive nature, and it was enhanced by living with my controlling mother. It was also enhanced by the caretaker position I've held all my life. (damn my maternal insincts ) Sexually I watched my mother sleep around for . . . well a long time, and for all I can figure (this is a guest), subconscioussly I decided that agressive women are sluts. I want to say that I don't think this is true. I just mean that I must have decided it as a child or something. The truth is that my husband and I wish I were more agressive. I dunno.

So to make a VERY long commentary short, I think it's a combination of genetics and environment. Some people are born shy, submissive, all those, and some are born dominant, out going, etc. And then life molds you into what you are.

Grace

 

[ethereal~minx]

dp=double post

 

[ethereal~minx]

I remember when I was a 11years old being very conflicted about religion and God and trust. I went to Christian Science Church, occasionally listened to religious programs on television but what I heard all seemed to either conflict with eachother or in some other way be conflicting to me~ I remember hearing about priests being in trouble for molesting children. Here were all of these passionate God-Loving people preaching God's word and who was I to listen to? Who was I to trust when clearly I needed to trust in God and I needed someone else to show me the way! but why would I choose one over the other? why would I listen to this person just because my grandmother does? or why would I listen to the other just because he's on TV? I came to the conclusion that the truth lies within us, not in a church or a religion~~ I actually said to myself, we, each of us individually are God~ faith is found within, not externally ...that scared me, I didn't say it again or to anyone for fear it would --I would have to go away somewhere *laughing* in a straight jacket

so I kept it to myself because of that fear and judged myself for a very very very long time... I didn't know how to handle that information I had found/been given and I certainly had no reference to guide me...

then I met my first Dom. the value I found in myself through online interaction and the withdrawal of that dominant care where once I had found trust led me to become aware of my submission.

submission to the worth/value/truth within myself~~~therein also lies the nature of my dominance: he/she wishes to serve me, please me, cherish me, honor, trust, obey....

my dominance ---I was dominant as a child, very early on.. I was the princess for 2.5 yrs before the others kids came, I was jealous~ I was covertly dominant... I knew to stay outta trouble, I had to get the little kids to do it~~ like Angelica from Rugrats *laughing* but not at all as mean ---or obvious... but but but I was sorta dominant like that and I don't know if it came from my childhood or not. I'd like to think it's just my nature. I'm curious and inquisitive about everything and always have been. I've never taken anyone's word for anything, always searched for my own truth. I'm still growing.

edited to add this for my own pom~
submission to the truth within myself and also dominance of the ego in myself
I was thinking about this today, about how I don't think I would enjoy alllllways being serrrrved~~~ I enjoy the freedom of playing within someone else's frame as well