Where is the REAL envy?

[Valantonia]

I am surprised more people haven't responded, do to the obvious examples we have right here on the board.

The first would be assertiveness. I envy the fact that men can be strong without losing their masculinity. As soon as a woman asserts herself she is generally seen as less feminine.In the past there have been a few women who have voiced their opinions over the flirting that has gone on here. The general atmosphere towards them is; what a bitch, she's just jealous or is it that time of the month. These are things we would never say to men. Lasher voiced the same opinion and presto the attitude changed. I don't recall anyone asking Lasher if he was uptight because he wasn't "getting any". I envy the fact that he can be who he is but I can't become Lasherette without coming off looking like a royal bitch. I actually overheard a woman saying that her boss must be "going through the change" as an excuse for her assertiveness. Give me a break!

Another thing I envy is that men for the most part don't feel the need to apologize for their behavior. How many times have I seen, right here, women make valid points only to come back the next day and say they're sorry. WHY! You hardly see a man excusing his behavior. I would be surprised to see one post like this; "Sorry about what I said yesterday. I was bloated and feeling cranky. I shouldn't have taken it out on you."

Lovely, I agree about the power suits. I love Laura Ashley dresses and feeling feminine, but no one would take me seriously if I walked into the office like that. I own a business with my husband. I take care of the paperwork and he oversees the labor. I had a hard time convincing men to deal with me so I had a plaque made for my desk. It states, "Do you want to speak to the MAN in charge or the WOMAN who knows what is going on?"

On a lighter note I envy the fact that my husband can go a week without shaving and at the end come out looking sexy. The same cannot be said about me.

I envy the ability to pee standing up which in turn makes for faster peeing. You know what I'm talking about if you ever had to stand in line for the bathroom during intermission.

I have heard the same thing about some gay couples as your lesbian comment. I know I feel weaker when I'm fucking (not making love)with a man who is ramming away in me. I have fantasized about using a strap-on and just once having that power.

Having said all of that I love being a woman but Clara was right.

 

[Lovely Latina]

I think I just found my new best friend.

Valantonia,...that was a most EXCELLENT post! Every single point you made was right on. I especially loved the "Do you want to speak to the MAN in charge or the WOMAN who knows what is going on?" I need to make up one of those for my office. My boss has a very good sense of humor, and would no doubt find that as humorous as the "For Rent" sign that I presently have up in my office window. *lol*)

As for thinking that more people would have voiced their opinions, I have to agree and say that I am disappointed, as well. I had a FASCINATING discussion about this very topic during a business luncheon with some clients (both male and female), and thought that the intelligent people of this board could offer some awe-inspiring insight as they so often do. Though a few *have* voiced opinions (and I thank all that took the time ), I guess that I will just have to keep my further insights to myself for now. Although...I *have* been known to drone on and on replying ONLY to myself on certain threads...*LOL*...but I think I'll spare the BB population of that spectacle just this once.

You've obviously been lurking for quite awhile, and as I was greatly impressed by your very first post, I wholeheartedly encourage you to continue posting.

Welcome to the board, hon!

 

[CreamyLady]

Truly, LL, I just can't talk about who has the power, who wants it, what the symbols are, and what it all means.

I also have to say that I've never really looked at the issue from any form of organ envy. I mean, why? I sure as hell don't want a penis for any combination of reasons. I have met men who want to be women, and go to painful and expensive lengths to achieve it, but in the end they only want the trappings and to be girls -- not women.

I've had several long discussions on feminism recently -- one on this board -- and I'm tired. The whole argument falls neatly into generational lines, and interesting as it is, it makes me crazy.

So, that's why I bit my tongue, and packed it in ice, and will retire for the evening.

 

[Laurel]

I envy the ability to pee standing up which in turn makes for faster peeing. You know what I'm talking about if you ever had to stand in line for the bathroom during intermission.

Here's one for the guys: Okay, this is SLIGHTLY off topic, but as I sit here in Manu's boxers I wonder... do any of you men actually USE the funny little flap opening? Seems to me it would be easier to just pull the front of the damn things and do your business than to try to thread yourself through the little hole in the boxers, but what do I know?

CreamyLady - you are an awesome lady, and if I've caused the wounds on your tongue I do apologize. I stand by what I've said, but I do respect your viewpoint.

Valantonia - stunning entrance, I must say! Exceptional post. Welcome aboard!

This is an intriguing thread. I've been so busy getting beat up on the gun thread that I haven't posted as much here. Plus, I have nothing to add. The responses thus far are incredibly insightful and interesting, and I can't compete.

 

[Lovely Latina]

LMAO!

do any of you men actually USE the funny little flap opening?

Ya know...I've often wondered the EXACT same thing! My husband is a "tighty-whitey" kinda guy, and try as I might, it takes me way too damn long to lodge that baby outta that little "convenient" opening. And forget trying to get it back in! (Although forgetting to do THAT is never really a problem.)


(Thank you for responding, CL.)

[Edited by Lovely Latina on 07-20-2000 at 02:12 AM]

 

[CreamyLady]

LL, Laurel -- truly it is a fascinating topic. There is so much involved with the issue that sometimes it is hard to know where to start.

Circle of Aradia is sponsoring a weekend workshop in Feminism and Classism in September, and one of the women involved is looking into a scholarship for me (poor student; has its advantages!). I expect that I'll be there, running copies and doing dishes and sleeping in the cinders, but I will be keeping my eyes and ears open and taking copious notes.

THEN I'll come back, armed and dangerous.

 

[Jade]

Re: LMAO!

do any of you men actually USE the funny little flap opening?

Ya know...I've often wondered the EXACT same thing! My husband is a "tighty-whitey" kinda guy, and try as I might, it takes me way too damn long to lodge that baby outta that little "convenient" opening. And forget trying to get it back in! (Although forgetting to do THAT is never really a problem.)


(Thank you for responding, CL.)

[Edited by Lovely Latina on 07-20-2000 at 02:12 AM]

I read in a national survey (in USA anyway.. sorry everyone else?) that 80% of men in America do NOT use the flap!

 

[Valantonia]

Wow, to wake up to praise like that! It doesn't get any better. So thank you both for your compliments and the welcome.

I have been observing the BB for a while and have wanted to post before. What usually happens is that after talking at the monitor I think no one really cares and walk away. It's just that this was a fascinating topic and I couldn't do that anymore.

Lovely Latina I forgot to mention that I have been intrigued by that comment about men being men and it being full time work. I wonder do men feel the pressure to provide or is it so ingrained and part of their nature that they don't even think about it. I would love to walk around in a man's body for one day and see the world through their eyes.

Btw I have wondered about that flap and what its purpose is.LOL

 

[Thumper]

Oh Yeah!

I too have wanted to walk around in the body of the other sex...although in my case I probably wouldn't leave the house!(like a kid being locked in the toy store overnight)

If ya like signs LL, my wife has one you might like. It says "Men Working" and in small print "Women work all the time, men have to put up signs when they work" Don't exactly agree with it...but it is funny.

Multiple orgasms....for me that would be more than three a month. Seriously, no thanks. It could get very painful given the intensity and besides, I might miss Sportscenter.

Hmmm do we feel the pressure to provide or is it ingrained. I think both are partly true...I just do it because it seems the right thing to do...I do resent it at timesdoesn't mean I couldn't do the house husband thingy if I was to be fortunate enough to hook with a well to do lady. How 'bout it, any of you rich ladies need a good looking trophy husband???

No on the flap .....

 

[Gaucho]

I've always liked Steve Martin's line about what it would be like to be a woman.

He said, "If I were a woman, I'd probably just sit around and play with my breasts all day."

 

[Earthgoddess]

HHmmm I just returned from the Jersey Shore and after spending almost a week with a bunch of testosterone laden men from Philly-luckily none of whom were related to me-I can honestly say I have no envy of the male genitals at all.
Watching men grab themselves as a form of punctuation-"I got yer___________(fill in blank as appropriate,i.e. beer,breakfast,tax free annuity)right here baby"...I felt a bit like an anthropologist myself.
I have always prefered the notion of renting one when I desire,now that I am married I feel as though I have finally purchased one and can enjoy it at will yet I have no maintenance on the unit..Like a condo at the beach.
I realized just how signifigant and amazing the male penis is for males,when my little boy(age 4 and 1/2) had to urinate. He had been swimming and drunk a gallon or so of lemonade and had held for too long,he went to use to potty and I heard a yelp. With all the pressure his aim had gone badly awry and he had sprayed most of the bathroom. He stood there and looked around at the pee dripping from everywhere-even the ceiling it seemed. Then he looked at his penis and solemnly stated,"You never can tell with these things-they are on their own sometimes." I almost died but did not want him to think he was bad or his penis was bad-so I stifled the laughter until we had cleaned up the bathroom. Later after the clean up he asked me if I was mad and I said no,it was an accident. He leaned over and said in a stage whisper,I think he(pointing at crotch) did it on purpose."
That to me sums it up-we may have to deal with menses and childbirth and intense responsibility for creating new generations but no woman will ever pee on the ceiling.

 

[Expertise]

Way the fuck off topic but the "convenient hole" prevents crimping and back pressure which rsults in both discomfort and wildly inaccurate aim.

 

[Gaucho]

That to me sums it up-we may have to deal with menses and childbirth and intense responsibility for creating new generations but no woman will ever pee on the ceiling.

What? You mean Captain Kirk really didn't go where no man had gone before?

And is Janeway jealous?