Which Came First?

[dr_mabeuse]

Thank you all for your responses.

Pure, I'm not sure of that's what I meant or not.*L* (pardon me. Too much caffeine right now.) but I appreciate the answer.

I'll try to put the question in context, and maybe that will tell you why I asked:

I recently had my first sexual experience with a woman who was positively submissive, and it just blew me away. The intensity, the excitement, the emotion and feelings, the very sight of her was so exquisite that mere vanilla now seems more like mutual masturbation than real sex. I fell deeply in love with her after being with her for no more than 4 days. I know, it sounds like infatuation, but it goes beyond that. AT least, I've never had such a consuming infatuation.

Unfortunately I can't be with her, because we live some distance away, so I'm trying to figure out if I really love her or whether I just love the D/s. The two are hard to separate, as I'm sure you can understand.

So I'm wondering whether this is common: that you achieve such total intimacy with a person through D/s that this alone leads to love, or whether the majority of people are first in love before they find they share an interest in D/s.

Does that make sense?


---dr.M.

 

[Soron]

For us, a friendship and strong attraction came first. When I first met him nine months ago, I wasn't aware that he was a Master with more than a decade of D/s life experience under his belt. *grins*I listened, and learned about his lifestyle as our relationship developed into something beautiful.

In our case, the relationship is more important than D/s. We are allowing our D/s involvement to evolve naturally over time, rather than pushing too hard, too fast. This works well for us, especially since we have a long distance relationship at this point.

I think you will find that D/s relationships are as unique as the individuals involved within them.

I might add to this that the first time we were together it was mostly for us as a couple. Yes, there was some spanking, one beautiful session in particular, otherwise, we used the time to get to know one another better emotionally and sexually. The second time was wonderful as well. This next visit I hope to incorprorate more bondage and such into the equation. I have found taking it slow helps build a stronger bond of trust between us.

 

[A Desert Rose]

In other words, which came first: The relationship or the D/s?


---dr.M.

This is hard to answer. I started to say the relationship came first but while thinking further on this, it could have been the D/s. I don't like labeling but He is/was a very dominant man and an alpha male and I was immediately drawn to him. The D/s fell into place in a very natural way. Our relationship from the beginning was never a "traditional" one, in the vanilla sense.

 

[A Desert Rose]

So I'm wondering whether this is common: that you achieve such total intimacy with a person through D/s that this alone leads to love, or whether the majority of people are first in love before they find they share an interest in D/s.

Does that make sense?


---dr.M. [/B]

We love people for so many different reasons. But the basic thing, to me at least, is need. Do you love because you need that person or do you need that person because you love him/her?

I think once one knows the answer to that question, all other things fall into place.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Thank you all for your responses.


So I'm wondering whether this is common: that you achieve such total intimacy with a person through D/s that this alone leads to love, or whether the majority of people are first in love before they find they share an interest in D/s.

Does that make sense?


---dr.M.

I think I can see where you are coming from and for some I think there is a definite way to define what came from where, for others such as Master and I, the two are so interwoven they are inseparable. Maybe it is something which comes with life experience also.

Both of us had been in vanilla type relationships earlier in life, boringly because that is what we are raised and socialised to accept as what romantic relationships are like. We both knew something was missing in all these relationships. I had partners I felt deeply about, I had lots of fun sex, and sometimes even great mind blowing sex, but always I was left with a little voice asking where the magic connection was I believed love to be.

I analysed my life, I looked at my thoughts and feelings from earliest memories. Surprisingly, though I had at that point very few memories of myself in early childhood due to stresses in my life etc., the memories which were and always had been there were those which centered around submission and being dominated by one, and not just in the cheap paperback ways of finding a strong, macho male to protect me. I fantasised from a very early age about bondage, discipline, dominance, and above all the deep love that accompanied that.

It is interesting my own daughter has had the same experience. My parents discovery of her book of fantasies at the age of 8 was an eye opener and contained fantasies that make many of the standard BDSM stories on Lit look tame. So is this genetic? We also share bisexuality as another commonality. But this is getting a little of the track so back to the realtionship question.

After lots of soul searching I decided I was tired of relationships which left me empty and hungry. I made a conscious decision to find what I needed to give me happiness and the magic I knew in my heart existed. Had many who questioned why I couldn't just find a nice vanilla guy and then work on changing him to what I wanted when the relationship was established and happy. For one thing I had tried vanilla and I was never truly happy so why would that change now? Secondly I do not think it ever works to become a partner in a relationship and then set about changing that person, especially when that was your intent before meeting.

To me it is dishonest which goes against all the beliefs of trust in the vanilla or BDSM relationship. No matter what type of relationship you go into, vanilla or BDSM, I believe it is vital to love a person for who they are, not for the person you want to make them become. It is a common mistake repeated every day, which is probably why the divorce rates are high....people see someone they like physically and either assume they are a particular way in personality because they want them to be that person, or are blinded by lust, and then set out to make that SO become who they want and need.

It doesn't work longterm, at least not in a way where both parties are happy. The basics of a person remain who they are no matter how conditioned they become to 'acting' in the way a partner wants...deep down they are still who they were when you met, not the fantasy you create. No doubt some are going to confuse this with the idea a dominant guides their submissive, but this is not what I am referring to. Yes, a D does guide and nurture their submissive, but they build on the person they are. The only way they can significantly change someone, submissive or otherwise, is to build on who they are deep down, and to me all healthy relationships see us evolve into different people than we were, but still intrinsically the people we were.

The only other way to change someone so markedly is to brainwash them, or pick a doormat type submissive. Even this submissive I believe has their own basic character but usually due to abuse, psychological immaturity, or other stresses in life, have not at that point in their life been able to cognitivley formulate that personality in a way it manifests visibly. Despite this, they cannot be moulded in a way which becomes intrinsically that persons character without brainwashing.

As for the question of D/s first and then love growing from the intimacy and essence of the BDSM relationship, I feel it cheapens the love to believe it has grown only for those specific reasons. In my experience, I met and had experiences with dominants who were aesthetically pleasing to the eye, very dominant in a way that made my spine tingle, and often shared the same goals, views, and interests as me, but I knew that magical, illusive, intangible ingredient was not there which would lead to love. I believe though you may love more than one in your life, the love I wanted and needed was not of the sort you found often, perhaps not more than 1 - 3 possibilities on the planet. If love were that easy we could all type the formula for ourselves into a computer and find a long list of suitable choices and then settle down with the closest option instead of having to move to the opposite hemisphere and side of the world to be with that magic one as I have done.

The D/s relationship contributes to strengthening the relationship if you are a 24/7 lifestyler as we are, but it cannot be the basis alone, just as love cannot. For us we acknowledge we love each other independently of BDSM, but to be happy and content, we both need that BDSM element to our relationship as that is the combination of factors we need, but it is also that magic something we have which combines all elements in a unique way to gift us with the bliss we know as an everyday experience now.

All have their own views which are to be respected, but this is my reality and experience. As with most things which are vital in life, there are no easy simple answers.

catalina