Which plot thread leads to the most heartbreaking ending?

[NoTalentHack]

You can do drama and smut in the same story, it's not a zero sum game

Sure, and I have. But when I say “fantasy-based” I’m thinking of things like the “mom’s hot, why not/mom sitting on son’s lap” kind of nonsense (”nonsense” not meant in a pejorative way here).

 

[taytay4eva]

In other words you want to show the woman suffering and as always, the man is proven right because how could he not be? It is at it should be.

This is why you get high marks in the category. You speak their language.

I would really love to write it from her Point of View because the idea that she slowly realizes that he was correct to be estranged from his family appeals to me. Like, she's seduced by the idea of perfection, as one is in youth, only to realize too late that the quiet homelife she had is what she really wanted. He, meanwhile, learns to finally start putting himself first, instead of always rolling over for other people's happiness or to keep the mood stable. Like, they might not have been GREAT for each other, really, but the WAY things shook out is what makes it exceptionally shitty.

 

[taytay4eva]

Sure, and I have. But when I say “fantasy-based” I’m thinking of things like the “mom’s hot, why not/mom sitting on son’s lap” kind of nonsense (”nonsense” not meant in a pejorative way here).

Ah! Yes. Right. I mostly write fantasy (my latest story is Sammi Elf Savors a Seductive Sweet) so I saw fantasy and immediately thought "I mean it's a niche evolution for a writer but goddamnit it's MY niche." Not as niche as my favored style of novel to write (which is "cozy epic fantasy") but "christmas elf smut" is still a niche.

 

[taytay4eva]

First off, this is an interesting story. To me, it's clearly a story about a guy who catastrophizes about what happens when the "better brother" shows up in his life. He fled his family to get away from that, because he perceived that anytime he had something good going, everyone just liked the better brother more, and people would leave. He's probably admited as such to the girlfriend, who likely reassured him that he's likeable, and his brother probably isn't really THAT awesome. And the MC started to think maybe he was reading too much into it and he was so self-focused he couldn't see the other possibilities. So, to rid himself of this negative association he's had his whole life, he decides to go see his family, bringing his girlfriend to support him in case things don't go well.

And, oops... Turns out his catastrophizing was right on the money.

1. It dawns on him that she's cheating on him. It doesn't have to be something he knows for a fact, it just has to be something that seems very clear to him. This is devastating, but quietly so. He'd started to convince himself he wasn't this loser who would always be overshadowed by the better brother, his girlfriend believed in him too, only to have his worst fears completely and totally affirmed in the most ironic way possible. He doesn't freak out, he doesn't fight it. It's total and utter defeat. He'll never be good enough, not just in relation to the brother, but to anyone at all. So he leaves, withdraws from social life, because why bother making friends or dating people when he's clearly not good or interesting enough to be around?

True irony: She didn't actually cheat on him, but was kind of leaning that way. And when he disappears and ghosts her, she's upset and the brother conforts her, which leads to them entering a relationship. The MC might never find out their relationship was the product of him crumbling and leaving, just sees it as another point of evidence as to his failure. Additional, it's possible the reason people like the better brother more is because the MC becomes overprotective or mopey when he's around, which turns off those around him and they don't like the side of him that comes out around the brother.

2. He should show up. He probably still harbors feelings toward her, given that, if he hasn't been with anyone since, he might not have ever gotten over her. Or she was the one person who treated him like he mattered, and even though she left him, it still means something to him. He doesn't have to be best man, I suspect the brother is probably not so callous and oblivious as to do that to his brother (which makes it even more tragic, if the brother is actually a decent guy who cares about his brother, not just some asshole who steals things on purpose), but the ex asks the MC to show up because she also still cares about him in some way. Not romantically, but she worries about him. She probably reached out over the years to apologize, to explain, to tell him not to take it so personally, but he either said, "Sure, okay," or never replied.

If you want to go redemptive route, maybe he goes to the wedding and finds someone there. If you want to keep his rehabilitation separate, the wedding might be the catalyzing event for him to realize he needs to either work on himself or learn that the issue was never the brother, it was his reaction to being around the brother. Maybe the ex reveals something (like if you were to go with she technically never cheated, but only hooked up with the brother because the MC left) that serves as a eureka moment as to why people don't stay, which gives him room to work on that part of himself.

I mean I'll be honest here, a lot of the idea came from "Why is it that everyone in my family but me was able to get into a long-term relationship? Am I broken? If I was like everyone else, could I be happy in a relationship too?" mixed up with a writing prompt of "What if there was a version of you that really was just 'you but better' and everyone liked them more and the only way to get them from taking over your life was to kill them?" and I couldn't pull the trigger, even on my pretend-self, so I figured I'd just leave in that situation, and this is what spun out.

I'm still TERRIFIED that there's just something fundamentally broken in me, but I'm coming to terms with that now. At least, I'm trying to. The aftermath of this story for HIM is that, eventually, he accepts himself for who he is and finds friends and loved ones who care about him for him. As someone who still has trouble even meeting up with friends, the fantasy is that one day I'LL be there, too. Not "AND NOW I HAVE A SEXY WIFE AND I BEAT UP THE GUY WHO STOLE THE GIRL FROM ME", just "And now I have a relationship that makes me happy and a living situation that makes me not stressed."

 

[ADirtyPerv]

This isn't a Sammi story...right?

 

[taytay4eva]

This isn't a Sammi story...right?

GOD no. I'm only willing to do this kind of drama to Sammi ONCE, and even THAT felt overly cruel to my sweetie christmas potato, even WITH the happy ending that I am VERY proud of.

No, this is based on a character I played in a youtube series I used to do called Necromancy101. I did it for like, three years, I got my friends to help me, it was good fun. I only stopped because I ran out of ideas and there's only so much enthusiasm you can muster up for a series with an average viewing of less than fifty.

Also, though, I uploaded a few of them to pornhub and ABSOLUTELY forgot about that, which meant that the first results in google for "necromancy101" were all from porn websites that ripped their media from pornhub, which means that they ripped ME as well, and I am TICKLED about that.

This story ISN'T just "what the fuck made this dude this way?", he just felt like the right character to insert into this kind of story since who better to insert into a story about my own fears than a character played by me? Also, this was originally going to be part of a written "redo" of the "lesson one" video, but the drama made it richer. He feels very much like my "sad clown" character.

ALSO ALSO THOUGH, I did each of those videos with no edits, because I didn't (and still don't) know how to edit videos, so that's how I learned how to speak without ums and uhs, because I was forced to learn if I didn't want to hate what I was uploading.

 

[Cagivagurl]

I have an idea for a sad cheating story. Not a "vengeance ending" one, just sort of a sad ending.

I have the basics mapped out

I know his partner is either his girlfriend, his fiancee, or his girlfriend whom he was planning to propose to (he had a ring ready and everything).

I know that the she ends up leaving him for either his brother or his cousin. The [golden child who can do no wrong / basically just a better version of you in in every way] one, in comparison to him, who's the [scapegoat / always told "don't act out it's <church/holiday/event>" / always gets in trouble for doing the things the golden one gets away with] one.

I know that she's the one who convinced the scapegoat to meet back up with his family whom he was estranged from (because "family matters" if they're just bf/gf, or "weddings are for bringing people together" if they're engaged").

I'm trying to figure out a couple things.

+++

One:

Once he realizes that hers and the golden one's "we're totally not flirting you're being a worrywary" has turned into actual sex (the golden one is better in bed than him, too), what does the scapegoat do?

Does something inside him just sort of die, and he leaves quietly, having made up an excuse, and she only realizes later that he knew, and that there's no recovery?

Or did he walk in, and she and the golden one know why he left (but he kept quiet, because "it's christmas, don't make a fuss, talk about it later"), and the family just snipes that he's being "dramatic again" (and she realizes that "just being dramatic" doesn't mean emotional, it means this kind of thing, and there was a valid reason the scapegoat was estranged).

She rides back to their city with the golden one (he's recently moved to their city, but this was her first time meeting him), and gets into a relationship with him (a GOOD relationship (at first, at least) because, again, he's like the scapegoat but better).

+++

Two:

I know that his ex ends up marrying the golden one.

I'm not sure if the scapegoat doesn't go to the wedding, or if he's the best man, gives a great speech, is very professional, and then just never appears at a family anything ever again.

+++

This is a guy whose family member was better at him in so many things that he worked hard to get good at the specific thing he does only because his golden family member didn't like doing it, so he could at LEAST be better at him in that way, nevermind that the scapegoat isn't really happy doing it.

He's TERRIFIED of the golden one coming further into his life because he KNOWS that everyone who meets him will shift from "my friends in this city" to "his and my friends in this city" to "his friends in this city who don't have time to hang out with me anymore" BECAUSE ITS HAPPENED BEFORE.

At some point she realizes that she's messed up, but by that point it's too late. She's not UNHAPPY, she's just not happy, either; the worst kind of miserable, because you can't even complain. The golden one is perfectly content. They aren't poor, either; they're well off, with two and a half kids and a dog. She just time day realizes that she gave up something real.

The scapegoat one doesn't magically become successful and rich with a hot girlfriend, he just ... persists. Well, he eventually (in another story) finds friends who value him, and makes friends with the kind of people she wishes she could meet but can't anymore, but I'd like to keep it from a "angry / yeah fuck that bitch" feeling and more of a "good for him" feeling.

I know I have a good seed, I just need opinions on where I'm taking it. Thanks in advance.

The story you are talking about telling, has been told a million times... I agree with the comment saying (write your story, not the one others suggest) It is then their story, not yours... Write from the heart, not trying to get a good score...

Perhaps the wife realises she chose the wrong brother???? He is not the man she thought he was...
She meets his brother, and they click, because he is the one... She made a mistake....
She tells her husband that she is leaving him, because she thinks they made the wrong choice at the start, they should never have married...
He is devastated, because he didn't see it coming. He is even more devastated to find out she has started dating his brother...
There is no reason to paint the woman as an evil bitch...
The sadness comes ith her ex seeing her go on to have a fabulous life... He is never able to rebuild, although he has everything he needs except her....

Just my thoughts

Cagivagurl

 

[anthrodisiac]

I mean I'll be honest here, a lot of the idea came from "Why is it that everyone in my family but me was able to get into a long-term relationship? Am I broken? If I was like everyone else, could I be happy in a relationship too?" mixed up with a writing prompt of "What if there was a version of you that really was just 'you but better' and everyone liked them more and the only way to get them from taking over your life was to kill them?" and I couldn't pull the trigger, even on my pretend-self, so I figured I'd just leave in that situation, and this is what spun out.

I'm still TERRIFIED that there's just something fundamentally broken in me, but I'm coming to terms with that now. At least, I'm trying to. The aftermath of this story for HIM is that, eventually, he accepts himself for who he is and finds friends and loved ones who care about him for him. As someone who still has trouble even meeting up with friends, the fantasy is that one day I'LL be there, too. Not "AND NOW I HAVE A SEXY WIFE AND I BEAT UP THE GUY WHO STOLE THE GIRL FROM ME", just "And now I have a relationship that makes me happy and a living situation that makes me not stressed."

Which is a legit and highly relatable story idea/situation. It's more realistic and human and a quieter growth, one where it's much easier to have setbacks (the hallmark of any good growth narrative), but also more rewarding to bounce back from.

It also benefits from not being the obvious narrative path a lot of these types of stories take, which would make it stand out from the traditional "It's not me, it's everyone else, and I was right the whole time," "I'm broken and worthless and should just end it," and "Ha, I magically became super-awesome and now I can lord it over everyone."

More than anything, the growth feels more "earned" than those other plot ideas.

This story ISN'T just "what the fuck made this dude this way?", he just felt like the right character to insert into this kind of story since who better to insert into a story about my own fears than a character played by me? Also, this was originally going to be part of a written "redo" of the "lesson one" video, but the drama made it richer. He feels very much like my "sad clown" character.

Ah, catharsis, every writer's wet dream. Some achieve it, others of us who attempt it just stare at the result and go, "Huh, guess not."

If you don't want to focus on the psychological aspect, it sounds like you're more focused on the situational aspect. So less backstory and psychoanalysis, more how he feels in the moment? For these kind of stories, you may want to consider the logic and reasoning behind his mindset, even if you don't go into it for the story. It'll definitely help define his actions and motivations. Personally, I'm a big fan of psychological dissection and digging into motivations and reasonings, but it's not for everyone and it's pretty easy to get bogged down in pages and pages of internal monologue if you aren't careful.

 

[anthrodisiac]

Write from the heart, not trying to get a good score...

^^^ Also this.

In the end, it's your story, especially if it's a self-insert like this. We can spitball with you 'til the hucows come home, but really your best bet is to go for it and see how it plays out. Not sure if you're a pantser, but I'm firmly in that camp, and doubly so for self-inserts. It's where your intuition meets character logic most purely.

 

[taytay4eva]

The story you are talking about telling, has been told a million times... I agree with the comment saying (write your story, not the one others suggest) It is then their story, not yours... Write from the heart, not trying to get a good score...

Perhaps the wife realises she chose the wrong brother???? He is not the man she thought he was...
She meets his brother, and they click, because he is the one... She made a mistake....
She tells her husband that she is leaving him, because she thinks they made the wrong choice at the start, they should never have married...
He is devastated, because he didn't see it coming. He is even more devastated to find out she has started dating his brother...
There is no reason to paint the woman as an evil bitch...
The sadness comes ith her ex seeing her go on to have a fabulous life... He is never able to rebuild, although he has everything he needs except her....

Just my thoughts

Cagivagurl

Mostly this was helping me clarify what direction I wanted to take the story I wanted to tell.

I don't want to write her as an evil bitch. I'm gonna write various FAMILY MEMBERS as fucking awful, but that's because if you're estranged from your entire family, either YOU fucked up or THEY fucked up. At worst, she's a person who made a mistake by way of not breaking things off with her current partner before she started things with someone new, but that's just a human thing. That makes me side eye you, but it doesn't make you evil.

 

[taytay4eva]

^^^ Also this.

In the end, it's your story, especially if it's a self-insert like this. We can spitball with you 'til the hucows come home, but really your best bet is to go for it and see how it plays out. Not sure if you're a pantser, but I'm firmly in that camp, and doubly so for self-inserts. It's where your intuition meets character logic most purely.

Sitting down and outlining all the characters, and the villain is not coming out to be the golden cousin, but the scapegoat's little brother who has a knack for getting under people's skin. The golden cousin and the girlfriend kiss mostly to shut him up, but it feels RIGHT to them. Like, she LIKES the scapegoat, but this feels ... right. The golden cousin is able to get away with pretty much anything, but he's not BAD, per se, just unthinking.

I think that the scapegoat, who's been forced to help clean up things all weekend, sees the kiss, hears his brother try to rile him up about it, sees how his girlfriend and cousin are acting now and have been acting all weekend, DOES talk with her, and she DOES admit that she likes him, but she feels in love with his cousin. He accepts it, they break up almost kindly*, and she sleeps with his cousin after they break up. The scapegoat leaves "for a work thing" the next morning. Everyone else thinks that that's really what it is; the ex knows that that's his code for "I need to get out of this situation and I don't know how else to do it", but it hurts because she's never been part of the situation that's needed to be gotten out of.

I also think that she feels frustrated that she's done a lot of the "moving the relationship forward" parts of things for the two of them, so when she notices him almost forget a little box and she realizes what exactly must have been in that box, she's almost heartbroken.

The scapegoat is emotionally devastated, but keeps it all under his hat, because that's how he's been raised to react to things.

I think that they've had separate apartments, but when she gets home and finds all her things in a box in her apartment, all his things gone, and his key having been put into an envelope and slid under the door, she weeps. Or, at least, that feels like the right reaction. Then, you see that his cousin, who drove her home, is right there to support her, be a shoulder to cry on, and she's able to sort of start to move on.

She does not see the scapegoat again for ... I don't know how long, but long enough that it's noticeable.

*I was going to have her cheat, but I suddenly thought that thinking you're enough and then learning that you aren't is still the harshest part of this, and the girlfriend is happier with the golden one, and that is what really kills him inside. Like, after he leaves is when she realizes that he was afraid of this exact thing happening, and knowing that she was part of the reason his heart broke is what makes her so sad. Not the breakup, or losing him; just knowing that she broke his heart in the worst way possible.

 

[anthrodisiac]

I think that the scapegoat, who's been forced to help clean up things all weekend, sees the kiss, hears his brother try to rile him up about it, sees how his girlfriend and cousin are acting now and have been acting all weekend, DOES talk with her, and she DOES admit that she likes him, but she feels in love with his cousin. He accepts it, they break up almost kindly, and she sleeps with his cousin after they break up. The scapegoat leaves "for a work thing" the next morning. Everyone else thinks that that's really what it is; the ex knows that that's his code for "I need to get out of this situation and I don't know how else to do it", but it hurts because she's never been part of the situation that's needed to be gotten out of.

I think that they've had separate apartments, but when she gets home and finds all her things in a box in her apartment, all his things gone, and his key having been put into an envelope and slid under the door, she weeps. Or, at least, that feels like the right reaction. Then, you see that his cousin, who drove her home, is right there to support her, be a shoulder to cry on, and she's able to sort of start to move on.

You might want to wait a bit before she fucks the cousin. You risk turning the reader against her if they break up and five seconds later she jumps the cousin's bones. A better sex pacing might be after the scapegoat returns the key, she returns home, and the cousin is there to comfort her. It's a more sympathetic position to turn to him for sex once she realizes it's truly over, and she appreciates him being there for her, which leads to comfort > heat > sex. Since it doesn't sound like you want the reader to dislike her, it's better if she keeps it in her pants until it's clear they're truly broken up and the scapegoat is really gone.

Plus, if she jumps golden boy's bones right out of the gate, you have the reader questioning whether she actually liked the scapegoat or if he was convenient and something to do while she was between "real" boyfriends, which then lessens a lot of the emotional impact you're going for.

Overall, it sounds like a pretty solid story idea. I'd just keep an eye on how she's coming across to the reader, because you have to thread it. It's not an overly difficult line to thread, but her portrayal has the potential to slip into something you're not going for if the timing and sincerity are off.

 

[taytay4eva]

You might want to wait a bit before she fucks the cousin. You risk turning the reader against her if they break up and five seconds later she jumps the cousin's bones. A better sex pacing might be after the scapegoat returns the key, she returns home, and the cousin is there to comfort her. It's a more sympathetic position to turn to him for sex once she realizes it's truly over, and she appreciates him being there for her, which leads to comfort > heat > sex. Since it doesn't sound like you want the reader to dislike her, it's better if she keeps it in her pants until it's clear they're truly broken up and the scapegoat is really gone.

That's a good point and I will keep it in mind going forward as I write. Quiet breakup, he goes home early "for work", she goes home a few days later, having spent enough time with his cousin that they're starting to think "she's family" and less "she's the outcast's person".

Plus, if she jumps golden boy's bones right out of the gate, you have the reader questioning whether she actually liked the scapegoat or if he was convenient and something to do while she was between "real" boyfriends, which then lessens a lot of the emotional impact you're going for.

Yeah, I get that. I don't like writing cruel characters who think their cruelty is correct unless I'm planning to prove it wrong later, and she doesn't seem cruel to me.

Overall, it sounds like a pretty solid story idea. I'd just keep an eye on how she's coming across to the reader, because you have to thread it. It's not an overly difficult line to thread, but her portrayal has the potential to slip into something you're not going for if the timing and sincerity are off.

I will keep that in mind. Thanks for your feedback!

 

[taytay4eva]

At some point she'll discover that the golden cousin only does things if they're easy. A lot of things come easy to him, but he won't work to better himself if there's effort involved. He coasts by on his successes and the successes of those around him. His part of the family is really well off, so he can just coast into a wealthy life, and he can do a great job at the things he's got a knack for, but that's it.

The scapegoat, however, works to better himself at things he wants to do. Things don't come easy for him, so he's had to work for it. He's had to work hard to improve, and continues to work hard to improve. He's decidedly working class, and won't ever be wealthy, but he does have drive.

So she does regret things eventually, but it isn't like it's a bad relationship; the golden cousin just isn't as fantastic as she thought he was, and the doubts that caused her to break up with the scapegoat were valid but ultimately would have been something to work through in other circumstances, not something to end things over (the scapegoat didn't help his case; he thought that he was very lucky to be with her, so her leaving for his cousin hurt too much for him to think straight if he'd not been in as shitty a state of mind, so it isn't just her fault for breaking up with him).

 

[taytay4eva]

@anthrodisiac I think that I have the whole story mapped:

Rebecca dates Ashton because he's soft, kind, gentle. He takes things slow. He's not traditionally masculine, and for a time, that's ok, but she fears that because he's not pushing her, he's not showing her that he loves her. She’s the one who had to ask him out, after all, and she’s the one who seems to be pushing on all the traditional relationship milemarkers. He's chosen to estrange himself from his family, but "family is important", so they go to his family gathering. They continue to call her “Ashton’s friend”, no matter how many times he corrects him. She thinks that it’s funny, and pushes back a little bit, but not significantly.

There, Ashton is AGAIN forced into roles he clearly hates; things he loves doing for her, he does here and is expected to do them but is belittled for doing them. Meanwhile, while Ashton is doing things like "being a good uncle and supporting his nieces and nephews", Hank is there, being a better, more handsome, more take-charge version of Ashton. He pulls her along, he does things that are fun but aren't really thinking. He's the kind of man she expects a man to be. She feels drawn to that, and he IS goodlooking, and he makes her heart flutter. Ashton's brother pokes fun at them, saying that it's just like Ashton to bring back a girl that's perfect for his cousin, and that he must be the perfect gal-pal.

At this moment, one of Ashton's nephews, Thomas, asks if he can make cookies with him; his brother is about to shoot it down (because that's a pretty girly thing for a boy to want to do) and Ashton AGGRESSIVELY says yes. Rebecca steps outside, thinking about all this. Hank steps out with her, talking with her, being charming, and, when there's a moment that "just seems right", he kisses her. She REALLY likes the kiss. She thinks that's a private moment, but too late sees that Ashton saw them kiss, and saw how much she liked it. He is ... standoffish about it.

Later that evening, Rebecca talks to Ashton about the kiss, and everything else, and admits that she thinks that she and Ashton aren't quite the good fit she thought they were. Ashton asks "if this is it?" and she says that she'd not like it to be, but that it might be best to just be friends. He agrees. The next day, he says that "he got a call from work, there's a baking disaster", which is an excuse he uses to leave situations that he can't politely extract himself from. Rebecca has NEVER been on the other side of this, but doesn't call him out. That would ruin the situation, after all. His family asks if Rebecca is leaving, and he says that it’s up to her, as they are "just friends", which is what they'd been saying the entire trip; Rebecca feels the jab, and it hurts more than she thought it would. His older family members don't pick up on it, but Ashton's brother does, and snickers, and Hank does, and he perks up.

Later, once she gets back, she learns that Ashton has moved out from his place, and that he'd told her friends prior to this trip that he was planning to propose. She is ... not heartbroken, but set adrift.

+++THIS was where the story originally ended; I couldn't help but to continue it, because apparently I can only REALLY write sad endings and stick to them if I'm deep in seasonal depression+++

Hank doesn't make a move then, since he's not an idiot, but it isn't long before she and he are dating, then, like clockwork, married (Hank's mom has a lot of "opinions" about the wedding), and she has a kid. She doesn't realize how miserable she is until "The Event", which is when Hank and Bryan (Ashton's brother) go snowmobiling and Hank, who has their son, Toby, on the back of his snowmobile, doesn't realize that Toby fell off.

Rebecca is furious and terrified with him, and searches all over the place to find Toby, too terrified to consider the possibility that Hank lost Toby OUTSIDE, IN THE SNOW. It's the next morning when Ashton, seemingly out of nowhere, after years of no contact, comes in, Toby none the worse for wear, Ashton himself on the verge of freezing to death. She helps him get warmed back up, and, when Ashton is made comfy on the couch, she goes to bat for him when his family complains that he's just laying around.

When Toby goes to Ashton that night after a nightmare, she walks down and finds Toby snuggled up into him. Her heart breaks (Toby would once have gone to her for night cuddles; on her side of the bed, but never pointedly REJECTING his dad), and she curls up with Ashton as well, wanting to pretend for a moment that THIS is her life.

The next morning, Ashton is ALREADY gone. He's not being rude, he's just done what he came to do, and he respects himself too much to force himself to stay. REBECCA, meanwhile, decides that Enough Is Enough, and goes upstairs and packs her things. Hank is confused, because isn't everything ok now that Toby is back? Rebecca HOWLS at him, and Hank LOSES IT, because HE IS HER HUSBAND, and she strikes back, that Ashton, who has NO CONNECTION to their son, NEARLY KILLED HIMSELF TO SAVE HIM, while he, HIS SON'S FATHER, couldn't be bothered to get off his ass.

The older family members are in SHOCK, as this has NEVER happened, and they think that this should be a QUIET family discussion, and that maybe they should wait to have it, but Rebecca REFUSES to be quiet. Ashton's nephew Thomas, who drove to the family gathering because he was expected to be able to tote his cousins and siblings around if they wanted to go out and do things, offers to drive her home. Before anyone can comprehend what's going on, they are loading their things, and leaving. Thomas is FREAKING OUT with excitement, and thinks that it's good that she finally stood up to Hank. Rebecca feels terrified, but more relieved than not.

A few weeks later, Ashton learns that someone is "quickly moving in" to the apartment next to his. This is his landland's code for "this person is leaving a bad situation, and I know that you are good at driving away unwanteds", so he goes to say hallo to the new folks. It is Rebecca and Toby. Ashton starts to leave, but Rebecca (and Toby, via running up to him and holding on) ask that he stay. He does.

 

[anthrodisiac]

Lot going on here. A lot of it good.

1. You're leaning into the slacker guy trope, which is fine, it's a good catalyst for girl likes guy for stability, but then it's so stable it never goes anywhere, which is for sure frustrating when you want to grow with your partner and your partner never seems to want to try new things. You will have to do things to indicate that he's not full slacker, so the proposal doesn't come out of nowhere, just little seeds that maybe Rebecca doesn't pick up on, but an astute reader will.

2. Good angle with everyone assuming this is just Ashton's "friend" and not his girlfriend. This allows Hank to make a move without turning him into a classic dick who moves on whoever he wants, regardless of their relationship status. Those kinda guys can be interesting to start with, because they bring the flair, but then you start wondering if he'll do that to you. Having him apologize for not realizing she was in a relationship makes him more layered and multi-dimensional, and justifies Rebecca staying with him, because he's legit a good dude. That would bring up a problem with...

3. Hank not looking for his kid can work, but only if he's become such a raging asshole who doesn't care about the family anymore that he wouldn't bother with his own kid. Highly unlikely. Especially in a storm scenario. Only the absolute worst of fathers wouldn't bother. What he could do is try to go out, but after a little bit he realizes he's going to die out there if he stays, and he makes the hard choice so Rebecca doesn't lose a husband and son in the same day, assuming Toby died. Griefstriken, and then when Ashton miraculously (getting to that) shows up, there's relief and anger: "if you'd spent ten more minutes, maybe you could've found him," "how dare you give up," sort of vibe.

4. Ashton shows up for years out of nowhere is very deux ex machina. There will need to have been a very good reason for him to randomly show up, miraculously having found Toby. If it's me, I'm borderline wondering if Ashton took Toby for the purposes of getting back with me, because it's so unlikely. I get where you're going with this, it's a good mechanism for the story, but Ashton will have to have already been out there, unless he's just stalking her family, which, weird and creepy. Either that, or Ashton died a while ago and his spirit decided to save Toby because he's a good enough dude to wander out of heaven for it. Probably not where you're going with this though.

5. If you wanted, you could split this into two chapters. You get the bummer/sad chapter, then the "yay hero" chapter. Or you could package it as one so you don't have people going, "Wow, that sucked for Ashton." Depends on what you're going for.

6. I will say, guy who has girl leave him, she goes with better alternative, only to go back to him is a bit cliche, but things are cliche for a reason: people tend to like it. It's relatable, it's the scenario a lot of people play in their heads (especially single people), "If they left their partner, maybe I could have another chance and it would turn out happily ever after."

6a. People love that shit.

In summary: Good bones, second half needs a bit of a think, but it seems like it's newer than the first half, so let it percolate for a bit.

Addendum:
It just struck me that while the POV is Rebecca, the story is ostensively about Ashton. I'm not sure why it took me that long to realize it. It's very Gatsby, POV character as the lens through which to view the actual MC.

My only thing to look out for is making sure Rebecca is fully realized as her own entity, so the story isn't just about Ashton, it's about her as well. I mean, it could just be about Ashton, that's valid, too, but I get a mild ick from FPOV really being about the MMC, especially in a romantic setting like this. It risks the woman being seen as just a narrative tool and plot device, and not an actual person, and at that point why am I not just reading it from his POV? (Because it's a less interesting white-knight story, I know.)

I'm very big on even small characters being real people whose lives continue even after their use as a narrative tool is done, I think it adds a layer of depth to a story that's subtle and beautiful. But, that's me. Your style isn't going to be mine, isn't going to be Fitzgerald, isn't going to be any damn person but yourself, my dude.

In summary part 2: You do you, boo. Curious to see how it turns out.

 

[taytay4eva]

Lot going on here. A lot of it good.

1. You're leaning into the slacker guy trope, which is fine, it's a good catalyst for girl likes guy for stability, but then it's so stable it never goes anywhere, which is for sure frustrating when you want to grow with your partner and your partner never seems to want to try new things. You will have to do things to indicate that he's not full slacker, so the proposal doesn't come out of nowhere, just little seeds that maybe Rebecca doesn't pick up on, but an astute reader will.

Duly noted!

2. Good angle with everyone assuming this is just Ashton's "friend" and not his girlfriend. This allows Hank to make a move without turning him into a classic dick who moves on whoever he wants, regardless of their relationship status. Those kinda guys can be interesting to start with, because they bring the flair, but then you start wondering if he'll do that to you. Having him apologize for not realizing she was in a relationship makes him more layered and multi-dimensional, and justifies Rebecca staying with him, because he's legit a good dude. That would bring up a problem with...

He is a good dude on the surface. He is very charming and personable.

3. Hank not looking for his kid can work, but only if he's become such a raging asshole who doesn't care about the family anymore that he wouldn't bother with his own kid. Highly unlikely. Especially in a storm scenario. Only the absolute worst of fathers wouldn't bother. What he could do is try to go out, but after a little bit he realizes he's going to die out there if he stays, and he makes the hard choice so Rebecca doesn't lose a husband and son in the same day, assuming Toby died. Griefstriken, and then when Ashton miraculously (getting to that) shows up, there's relief and anger: "if you'd spent ten more minutes, maybe you could've found him," "how dare you give up," sort of vibe.

I had intended him to be an exceptionally shitty dad. Like, his thing is that he is great at the things that he's interested in doing, but if it takes work, he tends to put in a low amount of effort. He probably should put in more effort than I'd initially imagined him doing, though. Maybe in the wrong area, SURE that that's where he'd fallen off the back of his snowmobile, trying very hard to divert the conversation away from how Toby was able to fall off at all, and why he didn't stop and look for him then.

4. Ashton shows up for years out of nowhere is very deux ex machina. There will need to have been a very good reason for him to randomly show up, miraculously having found Toby. If it's me, I'm borderline wondering if Ashton took Toby for the purposes of getting back with me, because it's so unlikely. I get where you're going with this, it's a good mechanism for the story, but Ashton will have to have already been out there, unless he's just stalking her family, which, weird and creepy. Either that, or Ashton died a while ago and his spirit decided to save Toby because he's a good enough dude to wander out of heaven for it. Probably not where you're going with this though.

It is not where I am going with this. There is literal magic and supernatural forces involved in Toby's survival. Like, Ashton was unceremoniously plopped down in the wilderness by a goddess looking for her daughter because she thought that there was a sign she was there; it turns out that her daughter was using her power to protect Toby, but, since she was a new goddess, she was running low on juice. Ashton, who has gained magic at this point (in the years apart from Rebecca), uses what magic he has left to keep Toby alive (he had been using it all night to save others while helping the goddess look for her daughter, and was running on fumes at this point). He had no idea whose kid this was, only that if he did nothing, the kid would likely die. When he learned whose kid this was (Hank's), he was originally going to be furious that he was once again just another tool in his (Hank's) life. At least for a moment.

This story was originally another story, but then I saw the one idea, and started working on this one, and I knew that Ashton was going to save someone's life and either die or expect to die without reward or expectation of being saved at the last minute, and this felt like a good bridge.

+++++

At least, my ORIGINAL plan was for literal magic and supernatural forces to be involved. I could always play it as "Ashton came to a family gathering, insisted that he go out and do a fun thing as well instead of staying back with everyone else, got 'the shitty snowmobile', and then found Toby, and then his snowmobile fails. More realistic; less fun for me, because I like writing stories with magic, but probably a stronger story for this. That said, if this story is ABOUT Rebecca, it needs to have narrative flow, and "and Ashton appeared after going on his own weird series of adventures off-page" doesn't do that.

5. If you wanted, you could split this into two chapters. You get the bummer/sad chapter, then the "yay hero" chapter. Or you could package it as one so you don't have people going, "Wow, that sucked for Ashton." Depends on what you're going for.

I think if I make it one story, I want it to be ONE story, not two parts. I know that I'd rather read a longer story than three parts.

6. I will say, guy who has girl leave him, she goes with better alternative, only to go back to him is a bit cliche, but things are cliche for a reason: people tend to like it. It's relatable, it's the scenario a lot of people play in their heads (especially single people), "If they left their partner, maybe I could have another chance and it would turn out happily ever after."

6a. People love that shit.

Yeah, I had been thinking about that the entire time I was working out the second half. I knew that she left Hank, but a friend pointed out that she needed agency when she left, so it was less "and then she went back to him because she saw what a good guy he was!" and more "she realized that she deserved better, left her shitty husband, and just so happened to run back into Ashton, and imply a happy ending". I'm trying to avoid Ashton being the superhero great guy that swoops in and gets the girl and decks the bad guy cliche, but, yeah, cliches are cliches for a reason.

In summary: Good bones, second half needs a bit of a think, but it seems like it's newer than the first half, so let it percolate for a bit.

=)

Addendum:
It just struck me that while the POV is Rebecca, the story is ostensively about Ashton. I'm not sure why it took me that long to realize it. It's very Gatsby, POV character as the lens through which to view the actual MC.

My only thing to look out for is making sure Rebecca is fully realized as her own entity, so the story isn't just about Ashton, it's about her as well. I mean, it could just be about Ashton, that's valid, too, but I get a mild ick from FPOV really being about the MMC, especially in a romantic setting like this. It risks the woman being seen as just a narrative tool and plot device, and not an actual person, and at that point why am I not just reading it from his POV? (Because it's a less interesting white-knight story, I know.)

I will do my best to ensure that the story is still fully about Rebecca. I could say "Oh, it's about a woman who finds the bravery to finally speak out against a system that rewards staying in the right line and not making waves" but there are still ways to tell that story without making her just a bystander in someone else's story. It's easy to write the "and then she realized too late that the nice was really the best guy and she was miserable and the nice guy got an even hotter girlfriend" story, and it's about as exciting as a wet turd to read.

I'm very big on even small characters being real people whose lives continue even after their use as a narrative tool is done, I think it adds a layer of depth to a story that's subtle and beautiful. But, that's me. Your style isn't going to be mine, isn't going to be Fitzgerald, isn't going to be any damn person but yourself, my dude.

In summary part 2: You do you, boo. Curious to see how it turns out.

I am also a fan of writing stories that feel like they're lived in, that they go on after the page. Thanks for your feedback!

 

[TheWritingGroup]

The magic thing seems to come out of nowhere. For me as an audience, you'd have to introduce it, at least subtly, much earlier in the story if you want it to make sense when it suddenly takes over the plot like that.

Is Toby the Chosen One of some other fantasy novel, and this is a side-story of his origin?

--Annie

 

[taytay4eva]

The magic thing seems to come out of nowhere. For me as an audience, you'd have to introduce it, at least subtly, much earlier in the story if you want it to make sense when it suddenly takes over the plot like that.

Fair enough! Sort of drip it in, imply a more magical world that's just ignored, so when the magic comes full bore it's obvious that it was there all along (for the in reader's sake, at least, if not the characters')

Is Toby the Chosen One of some other fantasy novel, and this is a side-story of his origin?

Nope! This is, in truth, another Sammi Elf story, albeit a sort of prequel. At least, that's how it started.

In the newest one, Sammi learns that she is (effectively, more or less) the daughter of Santa and Mrs Claus.

This story started as Santa and Mrs Claus going to Ashton, an established Necromancer at this point, for help finding her, as she had gone missing on Christmas Eve (she's 18 in the newest one, she's 15 here) You learn that what Sammi has been doing was keeping Toby alive with her (very small supply of) Christmas magic, because he's one of her kids (one of the kids she's supposed to watch over and protect, to the limited degree that she can).

Ashton, meanwhile, who had been riding around with Mrs Claus and abusing technicalities in his magic to save people from death (at the expense of his own continually diminishing health via taking on the "overages" that would have killed the people he saved) while looking for her, finds them (having been dropped off in the area by Mrs Claus because she sensed Sammi, but who can't remain in the world during the day), takes them back to warmth and safety, and then expects to just ... be done. So his own survival comes at something of a surprise to him.

 

[taytay4eva]

4. Ashton shows up for years out of nowhere is very deux ex machina. There will need to have been a very good reason for him to randomly show up, miraculously having found Toby. If it's me, I'm borderline wondering if Ashton took Toby for the purposes of getting back with me, because it's so unlikely. I get where you're going with this, it's a good mechanism for the story, but Ashton will have to have already been out there, unless he's just stalking her family, which, weird and creepy. Either that, or Ashton died a while ago and his spirit decided to save Toby because he's a good enough dude to wander out of heaven for it. Probably not where you're going with this though.

5. If you wanted, you could split this into two chapters. You get the bummer/sad chapter, then the "yay hero" chapter. Or you could package it as one so you don't have people going, "Wow, that sucked for Ashton." Depends on what you're going for.

6. I will say, guy who has girl leave him, she goes with better alternative, only to go back to him is a bit cliche, but things are cliche for a reason: people tend to like it. It's relatable, it's the scenario a lot of people play in their heads (especially single people), "If they left their partner, maybe I could have another chance and it would turn out happily ever after."

6a. People love that shit.

This is, in truth, another Sammi Elf story, albeit a sort of prequel. At least, that's how it started.

In the newest one, Sammi learns that she is (effectively, more or less) the daughter of Santa and Mrs Claus.

This story started as Santa and Mrs Claus going to Ashton, an established Necromancer at this point, for help finding her, as she had gone missing on Christmas Eve (she's 18 in the newest one, she's 15 here) You learn that what Sammi has been doing was keeping Toby alive with her (very small supply of) Christmas magic, because he's one of her kids (one of the kids she's supposed to watch over and protect, to the limited degree that she can).

Ashton, meanwhile, who had been riding around with Mrs Claus and abusing technicalities in his magic to save people from death (at the expense of his own continually diminishing health via taking on the "overages" that would have killed the people he saved) while looking for her, finds them (having been dropped off in the area by Mrs Claus because she sensed Sammi, but who can't remain in the world during the day), takes them back to warmth and safety, and then expects to just ... be done. So his own survival comes at something of a surprise to him.

It occurs to me that, since this is (the second half is, at least) part of a Sammi Elf prequel story, it might be one of the few times where splitting it up will be better than keeping it together, unless Sammi Elf has been there from the start ... which could work, since it would give her a legacy to protect ...

 

[anthrodisiac]

The magic thing seems to come out of nowhere. For me as an audience, you'd have to introduce it, at least subtly, much earlier in the story if you want it to make sense when it suddenly takes over the plot like that.

100%. The magic caught me totally off-guard.

At least, my ORIGINAL plan was for literal magic and supernatural forces to be involved. I could always play it as "Ashton came to a family gathering, insisted that he go out and do a fun thing as well instead of staying back with everyone else, got 'the shitty snowmobile', and then found Toby, and then his snowmobile fails. More realistic; less fun for me, because I like writing stories with magic, but probably a stronger story for this. That said, if this story is ABOUT Rebecca, it needs to have narrative flow, and "and Ashton appeared after going on his own weird series of adventures off-page" doesn't do that.

You can certainly do it with magic. In fact, if you wanted to do a companion piece from Ashton's POV, you could hit the two-sides narrative, hinting at some larger story, which then gives readers something to look forward to to get the fuller picture of exactly what happened. In that case, you would certainly need to sprinkle in magical facts and clues so it doesn't totally blindside readers.

If you like writing stories with magic, don't feel like you have to sidestep that because you feel it should be "more realistic." You can have magic and realism meet. A realistic story isn't necessary about how factual accurate a thing is, but how narratively cohesive it is and how well-established narrative cause-and-effect is portrayed — at least, if we're defining realistic as "narrative believable," which is the point I was making, not that the story needed to be realistic to be impactful. That's the beauty of fiction, you can create worlds and characters that clearly can't exist in the world as we know it, but you can still make them real/realistic from an evocative sense. Hell, I write stories about anthros and mysical creatures, so the "real life" type of realism is outside what I enjoy writing (erotically, anyway). If you like magic, write magic.

Not knowing there would be magical elements is what caught me off guard, but knowing that, Ashton's appearance makes a lot more sense, and to me, is ripe for exploring a second story about what happened to him.

 

[OralAllOver]

When the protagonist/bottom assumes his top is a good guy -- despite ample contrary evidence -- he's going to be hurt and discarded like Kristi Noem's dog

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