Why are all the father-daughter stories

[Everyday_Man]

Edit: Erased unneeded question.

 

[KatieAnnBB]

I have written a number of incest stories--including several father/daughter ones. Here are my thoughts based on struggling with writing them:

The biggest problem in these stories is to make the initial romantic contact between the parent and child plausible in some way. The moment when things "flip" from normal parent/child interactions to sexual attraction is crucial to making the story believable.

Since normal people don't engage in incest, It's difficult for me to imagine how this could happen unless the characters are either naive or damaged emotionally.

For example, it's very unlikely that a woman who has had a normal relationship with her father for 30 years will one day magically develop a sexual attraction for him--unless she's had some huge trauma. And the standard dodge of "Oh Daddy, I've wanted you since I was 12" just seems lame when she's had a decade or more to have at least hinted at this illicit attraction.

A younger woman, on the other hand, could be more naive--she could fall into some kind of hero-worship, or feel sorry for dad, or be guilt-tripped into doing something against her better judgment. And the "daddy I've wanted you for a long time" line now only covers a few years--and the scene in the story could plausibly be the first chance she would have had to act on it.

Parents are easier: If the parent is damaged in some way (like the recent loss of a spouse or a traumatic divorce) it can seem possible that they made a bad decision in the heat of a moment. That, coupled with a naive, vulnerable child is a good combination.

The only way I think a story with an older child could work would be to have both parties be going through some kind of serious trauma (messy divorces or other things). For me, this pushes the boundaries of believability--but I'm sure someone could make this work. Maybe they could wind up marooned on a remote island for a couple of years with no other sexual outlet?

Anyway, I hope this give a little insight as to why the children in incest stories tend to hover in the 18-22 year old range--it's just much easier to make good, believable stories that way.

 

[sr71plt]

I would think that the biggest problem would be to overcome the kink that the most compelling aspect (why most readers read these) of a father-daughter sex story is the underage aspect of the daughter, with underage not being permitted here (so authors are just alluding to it somehow to gain the interested audience). When they are both adults, there really isn't much jazz added that they are related than there would be any other adult-adult sex story. Let's get real.

 

[RejectReality]

The incest kink matters with same-age, adult characters. Otherwise, they would languish horribly in the category, and they don't. Sibling stories where both characters are in their 20s do about the same as when one of the characters is barely-legal. I have one where they're both older than that and established professionals that's over 1500 votes.

Put that straight, same-age story somewhere else, only removing the blood relation, and it's not going to pull down half the numbers it will in incest. Probably not even close. Half would be some other kind of risky sex like banging the bosses daughter or something.

The incest kink alone drives big numbers.

 

[sr71plt]

I think you're kidding yourself. Almost every one of them that comes up for feedback invites setting the reader's mind on underage. I think it's just a game to pretend otherwise.

 

[RejectReality]

I have exactly the opposite experience from people passing incest stories along to me for the purpose of first-reads and such. I also don't see nearly as much underage-dancing as you do in the threads posted to the feedback forum.

I think you're reading too much into it, and you think I'm wearing blinders, so I doubt we're going to meet anywhere in the middle on this. LOL

 

[sr71plt]

Yep, that's probably true.

 

[Black_and_White_Writer]

I have written a number of incest stories--including several father/daughter ones. Here are my thoughts based on struggling with writing them:

The biggest problem in these stories is to make the initial romantic contact between the parent and child plausible in some way. The moment when things "flip" from normal parent/child interactions to sexual attraction is crucial to making the story believable.

Since normal people don't engage in incest, It's difficult for me to imagine how this could happen unless the characters are either naive or damaged emotionally.

For example, it's very unlikely that a woman who has had a normal relationship with her father for 30 years will one day magically develop a sexual attraction for him--unless she's had some huge trauma. And the standard dodge of "Oh Daddy, I've wanted you since I was 12" just seems lame when she's had a decade or more to have at least hinted at this illicit attraction.

A younger woman, on the other hand, could be more naive--she could fall into some kind of hero-worship, or feel sorry for dad, or be guilt-tripped into doing something against her better judgment. And the "daddy I've wanted you for a long time" line now only covers a few years--and the scene in the story could plausibly be the first chance she would have had to act on it.

Parents are easier: If the parent is damaged in some way (like the recent loss of a spouse or a traumatic divorce) it can seem possible that they made a bad decision in the heat of a moment. That, coupled with a naive, vulnerable child is a good combination.

The only way I think a story with an older child could work would be to have both parties be going through some kind of serious trauma (messy divorces or other things). For me, this pushes the boundaries of believability--but I'm sure someone could make this work. Maybe they could wind up marooned on a remote island for a couple of years with no other sexual outlet?

Anyway, I hope this give a little insight as to why the children in incest stories tend to hover in the 18-22 year old range--it's just much easier to make good, believable stories that way.

Also remember that it's fantasy. That allows things to be stretched a bit more than in the 'real world'.

 

[CousinLuver]

I have written a number of incest stories--including several father/daughter ones. Here are my thoughts based on struggling with writing them:

The biggest problem in these stories is to make the initial romantic contact between the parent and child plausible in some way. The moment when things "flip" from normal parent/child interactions to sexual attraction is crucial to making the story believable.

Since normal people don't engage in incest, It's difficult for me to imagine how this could happen unless the characters are either naive or damaged emotionally.

For example, it's very unlikely that a woman who has had a normal relationship with her father for 30 years will one day magically develop a sexual attraction for him--unless she's had some huge trauma. And the standard dodge of "Oh Daddy, I've wanted you since I was 12" just seems lame when she's had a decade or more to have at least hinted at this illicit attraction.

A younger woman, on the other hand, could be more naive--she could fall into some kind of hero-worship, or feel sorry for dad, or be guilt-tripped into doing something against her better judgment. And the "daddy I've wanted you for a long time" line now only covers a few years--and the scene in the story could plausibly be the first chance she would have had to act on it.

Parents are easier: If the parent is damaged in some way (like the recent loss of a spouse or a traumatic divorce) it can seem possible that they made a bad decision in the heat of a moment. That, coupled with a naive, vulnerable child is a good combination.

The only way I think a story with an older child could work would be to have both parties be going through some kind of serious trauma (messy divorces or other things). For me, this pushes the boundaries of believability--but I'm sure someone could make this work. Maybe they could wind up marooned on a remote island for a couple of years with no other sexual outlet?

Anyway, I hope this give a little insight as to why the children in incest stories tend to hover in the 18-22 year old range--it's just much easier to make good, believable stories that way.

I don't see why anyone has to be "traumatized" or "damaged". There's no reason they can't be normal, fully functioning adults, but also have a hidden incestuous fantasy that eventually comes true. Family Flirt by RainierWriterII is the best example I can think of to show what I mean.

 

[Whispor]

I don't have children, but a buddy of mine and I have been able to talk pretty frankly about sex topics in the past. He has three daughters and has shared with me how "difficult" it is to raise girls. Not only is there a lot of drama, teenage angst, and stress over the perfect prom dress... He's mentioned how he believes young girls start to develop and experiment with their sexuality with their first male role models - their dads.

From what he's told me he's pretty good about telling them what's appropriate or not. Like not having enough clothes on around the house, closing the door when they go to the bathroom, etc. He said his are exhibitionists that he and his wife have had to break of the habit. I could potentially see where the boundaries could be broken by men who are unwilling to be assertive and teach their daughters what is/isn't appropriate.

Just my $0.02 worth... but his main point is that he believes girls treat their sexuality like they're at target practice, and eventually perfect their precision and accuracy.

Agree? Disagree?

 

[LWulf]

didn't read through all the responses on page 2

As the first few comments made, one aspect that i have been thinking of is the disparity between age; the older the child is, the older the parent is. I agree with previous commenters about how a 60 year old is less desirable a character to describe.
what someone people here are not considering is the whole step-parent or adopted child aspect. True, this reduces the blood "true incest" ties erotic nature of the incest story, though some people are still appalled when they hear of such acts (in reality).

returning to the fetish and erotic nature, let's consider the non-traditional marriages. A 40ish plus man marries a trophy wife of let's say 20ish. She loves her husband and helps raise his children from his previous marriage. when she is 40ish, her husband is now 60ish and his children are now 20ish. The point being, the older the husband is, the older the children are likely to be.

However, the older the father is, the older the children are, and thus the less likely his children would consider the stepmother as a maternal figure. so there is a window of opportunity that is presentable in that equation. In other words, the same contention of age of a parent (or this case step-parent) would still apply; the older the child is, the older the step-parent is.

I see the potential for the older woman allure for the son (the parent but not-parent which confuses the morality of the issue), or daughter if lesbian, while on the other hand, for the stepmother, her husband is now less sexual, she see's her stepson as a younger version of her husband. The son being less opinionated, and more carefree version of her older husband, and of course, more sexual/virile. To just propose a single example and not flesh out the whole story.

The point in incest erotica (do I really have to add the obvious caveat "in my opinion"?) is the role of "the most trusted" being brought into question. To make the role of the child to be less naive and more decisive is certainly to elevate the child in maturity to mid to late twenties or perhaps even early thirties. Some erotic nature can still be captured and not approach the senior citizen "gross-out" factor for the role of the parent.

 

[MyRubiLips]

I don't have children, but a buddy of mine and I have been able to talk pretty frankly about sex topics in the past. He has three daughters and has shared with me how "difficult" it is to raise girls. Not only is there a lot of drama, teenage angst, and stress over the perfect prom dress... He's mentioned how he believes young girls start to develop and experiment with their sexuality with their first male role models - their dads.

From what he's told me he's pretty good about telling them what's appropriate or not. Like not having enough clothes on around the house, closing the door when they go to the bathroom, etc. He said his are exhibitionists that he and his wife have had to break of the habit. I could potentially see where the boundaries could be broken by men who are unwilling to be assertive and teach their daughters what is/isn't appropriate.

Just my $0.02 worth... but his main point is that he believes girls treat their sexuality like they're at target practice, and eventually perfect their precision and accuracy.

Agree? Disagree?

I disagree. I never acted that way around my dad growing up and I doubt "most" girls do.

 

[chargergirl]

I disagree. I never acted that way around my dad growing up and I doubt "most" girls do.

Same. And our girls don't with their dad!

Also disagree with the part about girls being more difficult. I'm so glad I had girls; boys are a whole different energy and I'm glad I didn't have to deal with it.

 

[Hypoxia]

I sorta mentioned this a couple of pages (and years) ago. DESCRIBE (do not depict) the parents as having produced their offspring when quite underaged. This is easiy with women because we *know* the maternity whilst paternity was always iffy before DNA testing. I didn't play that card in That's My Girl because I didn't need to -- he's a very fit 50, works out a lot, eats sanely, and she's 32 but hasn't been in his life since her infancy. Their adult relationship is inadvertent -- no power asymmetry.

But I can easily see a story where the parents bred at age 13 and father+daughter hook up when he's a fit 50 and she's 37. Modern guys with good lifestyle and healthcare can be fit at 60 where she's 47. Are those mature enough for y'all?

The quandary is, why/how do they start in a believable manner? If they've had a 'normal' F/D relationship, I can't suspend disbelief. So the options I see and use are:

* long separation, inadvertent hookup: That's My Girl
* trauma: A Taste of Incest - Turkey [Dad] and [Mom]
* accidental (but I haven't had them hookup drunkenly yet)
* possession: Vamos! Day of the Fucking Dead which isn't Mature

Flip the OP's question around. Instead of asking WHY we don't have incest tales with older daughters, ask HOW can a mature F-D sexual relationship tale be written? Then it's merely a matter if devising a believable mechanism, and I think mine above aren't bad. Or we can go F&SF with time machines / magic / immortality / mindcontrol / woo-woo which I admittedly did with Vamos! (I'm not necessarily proud of that but it works.)

 

[Sean Renaud]

I disagree. I never acted that way around my dad growing up and I doubt "most" girls do.

I can't speak for most and I guess the problem here is that most people wouldn't admit it even if they had been like that. I know my sister didn't always really think twice about somet stuff and I didn't either at the time. She was my sister. I know a couple siblings of friends who think of me like family and have wandered down for a midnight snack while I was hanging out with their brothers. So it at least strikes me as plausible if you remove exhibition with casual indifference. Same way I only half care who sees me in my boxers. Sure occasionally that leads to "oh right. . .my sister in law is here. I totally Jedi Mind Tricked you now move so I can end this awkward moment."

I think you're kidding yourself. Almost every one of them that comes up for feedback invites setting the reader's mind on underage. I think it's just a game to pretend otherwise.

Well that's a big DUH. I would add that a good chunk of First Time stories and school girl stories are in the same camp of "I am legally required to identify her as an 18 year old but after this one time I will vaguely refer to her as a teen after that and you can fill in the gaps."

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

I disagree. I never acted that way around my dad growing up and I doubt "most" girls do.

My sister never did, either. I was there. I would know.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

It's hardly a secret that many writers sneak in stories that are clearly intended to evoke underage imagery while technically falling under the "18" label. I'm not sure where they draw the line, but I would at any behavior that is implausibly innocent for a girl or boy of 18, unless that person is Amish or something like that.

 

[Hypoxia]

It's hardly a secret that many writers sneak in stories that are clearly intended to evoke underage imagery while technically falling under the "18" label. I'm not sure where they draw the line, but I would at any behavior that is implausibly innocent for a girl or boy of 18, unless that person is Amish or something like that.

I generally slide the other way, making 18-yr-olds too emotionally mature. I have a hard time rendering into prose my own determined clueless confusion of that age. Yes, I have written underage human characters and no, they don't have sex, although they wonder about it. Maybe naiveté plus emotional turmoil makes 18-yr-olds seem younger?

And of course some people never grow up, remaining emotional 15-yr-olds well into their 40s and beyond. (IAt least one is a leading presidential candidate.) I remember a relevant Judy Fjell song:

I've got a middle-aged body
with teen-age e-MO-tions
I may seem mature
But I'm just going through the MO-tions
I've got a middle-aged body, a teenage mind
Growing up and fighting it
Forty years behind...​

Thus one way to cross the line is to make the character an emotional retard. It helps if they're rich and undisciplined, the snot.

 

[JayLikestoRead]

For what it's worth: In my series "Father Time", I don't give the daughter's exact age, but she's a lawyer, so presumably somewhere in her late 20's.

After that story ran its course, I wanted to write a mother-son story, but I couldn't think of a plausible explanation of how they become mutually attracted. The best I could do was to have her respond to a quip that one of her sons makes to the other.

 

[Hypoxia]

I wanted to write a mother-son story, but I couldn't think of a plausible explanation of how they become mutually attracted. The best I could do was to have her respond to a quip that one of her sons makes to the other.

In Black & White & Red All Over I think my mechanism (based on deception) was weak but readers seemed to like it. Go figure. The mechanism in A Taste of Turkey (Mom) the mechanism is trauma -- she MUST hold him close, naked, to keep him from freezing. A story now in the works (tentatively 'NEATH WESTERN SKIES) employs my old reliable inadvertent-incest trope. In A Taste of Lemonade it just sorta happens, y'know, when son & sis & mom are naked in the backyard sprinkler on a roasting-hot day. In A Taste of Candy Corn searing loneliness is spiked by too much alcohol. And in The Book Of Ruth's first episode, the mechanism is familiarity -- son & sis & mom have been naked at home (with no dad around) for a decade before they suck him in.

Yes, what *are* the plausible explanations for motherfucking? Other than the old mom-riding-son's-cock-in-backseat-on-bumpy-road trope, of course. Okay, that's the Unintentional (oops!) mechanism, right up there with Inadvertent (you're WHO?) and It-Seemed-Like-A-Good-Idea or Caught-Up-In-The-Moment (well sure). IMHO those are more plausible than Growing-Mutual-Attraction.

Or maybe those are merely easier to write than Growing-Attraction. Believability is a real challenge there. How to keep mom & son from being monsters (power imbalance)? How to make their sexual engagement logical, inexorable, inevitable? Casual nudity, as in The Book of Ruth? Reunited after a long separation and now bonding? Transitioning from child-rearing to son-fucking ain't simple.

 

[NotWise]

I don't have children, but a buddy of mine and I have been able to talk pretty frankly about sex topics in the past. He has three daughters and has shared with me how "difficult" it is to raise girls. Not only is there a lot of drama, teenage angst, and stress over the perfect prom dress... He's mentioned how he believes young girls start to develop and experiment with their sexuality with their first male role models - their dads.

From what he's told me he's pretty good about telling them what's appropriate or not. Like not having enough clothes on around the house, closing the door when they go to the bathroom, etc. He said his are exhibitionists that he and his wife have had to break of the habit. I could potentially see where the boundaries could be broken by men who are unwilling to be assertive and teach their daughters what is/isn't appropriate.

Just my $0.02 worth... but his main point is that he believes girls treat their sexuality like they're at target practice, and eventually perfect their precision and accuracy.

Agree? Disagree?

I grew up with two sisters and raised three daughters who kept the house full of teenage friends. I agree with others that what your friend described is not common behavior -- at least not for girls old enough to feel teen angst.

He may be correct that young girls often center their early sexual fantasies on their father. Dad is the most significant male in their life. I have also read that in articles on child sexual development. However, for most people there is a large division between fantasy and their actual behavior -- it's a serious social problem when there isn't. Also, girls who center their fantasies on their father are probably quite young, since it would pre-date most adolescent social development.

I'm not sure about developing their sexuality like they're at target practice, but they may develop their "look" that way. I talked about it with my youngest daughter, who confirmed it. Once girls reach a certain age they may become constantly aware of who is looking at them, pay special attention to how certain people (sometimes including older men) react to changes in their look, and then tune their look and behavior to get the response they want. I've even seen that behavior in a 12 year old girl, and that was creepy. That girl had problems.

I don't find father-daughter incest fantasies at all interesting and I think of them as one of the more potentially damaging incest fantasies out there. You'll never find me writing one. In the one story I ever wrote where a father had sex with his daughter is was a rape and the story ended when he committed himself to mental care because he had become a threat to the people he loved.

 

[Hypoxia]

I don't find father-daughter incest fantasies at all interesting and I think of them as one of the more potentially damaging incest fantasies out there. You'll never find me writing one. In the one story I ever wrote where a father had sex with his daughter is was a rape and the story ended when he committed himself to mental care because he had become a threat to the people he loved.

Father-daughter rape is the most common incest abuse AFAIK. (Hard statistics are elusive.) Yes, it's among the creepiest of fantasies, with the explicit power imbalance, the abuse of a lifetime of trust. I can only write F-D sex with a daughter under 30 as tragedy or absurdity -- and Dad can't initiate. Otherwise I'd have to write Dad as a sociopathic monster.

Do F-D sex stories have a place here? Apparently. And I'm working on absurdist pieces:

* Dad comes home early and walks in on his wife, daughter, some neighbor girls, and their boyfriend, all going at it, many with strap-ons. He joins in the fun and gets pegged himself.

* A woman's rare disease requires regular oral doses of sperm containing DNA closer than 3 degrees so she must constantly fellate her father, grandfathers, brothers, sons, and uncles.

* The old reliable masked pr0n shoot. None of the cast recognize each other until they're actively involved and maybe a mask slips. Double points as Dad's identical twin brother is there.

* Dad's tweaked pheromones turns him into a babe magnet -- but only for his female blood kin. He rushes back to the lab to recalibrate -- but now his MALE blood kin want him! Yow.

I can comfortably play with those scenarios where under-30 women are involved. But any Oh Daddy! strokers are off my plate.