Why I Stay..

[policywank]

I think it made sense back when it was a social contract and we didn't convolute it with romance. I mean... it's a holdover from a time when women were basically chattel and were traded for livestock, but there was a chunk of time there when you married someone as part of a contract, you both achieved social standing, and proceeded to fuck whoever you felt like.

I have a sneaking suspicion the main reason someone put the kibosh on that was because someone didn't like the idea of women being allowed to have sexual freedom... but I tend to think that's the reason EVERYTHING happens.

Your last point is a critical one and I am going to use it to wander off topic.

There are many arguments for and against marriage and for and against monogamy in a marriage. The considerations extend well beyond sex and I think each person has to come to their own conclusions.

However, it is damn near impossible to have a truly objective view of the possibilities, trade-offs and implications because so much of our perspective is rooted in the historical need to control women and reassure men.

Why? Because women are sexually superior. Every man knows deep down that his wife is more than capable of sexually satisfying the whole neighbourhood if she so chose. She wouldn't be ruined or dirty or unable to walk the next day. With basic conditioning she could fuck them all, take a quick shower and carry-on with her day and her man wouldn't be any the wiser. For men who feel the need to be in control this is a frightening vulnerability over which they have no control.......other than to try to make all of society their wife's chaperone.

Moreover men do not have the same opportunity - neither the physical capacity nor the receptive audience. In a sexually open world it would be a buyer's market for women and men would have to wait their turn.

 

[policywank]

Shallow or not, physical attractiveness is an important part of an active sex life. Everyone has things they are shallow about, me included.

We are all shallow in some ways.

Up until the age of 30 every attractive female friend I had would be the first to criticize guys who didn't want to date our less attractive friends as shallow, but would not even consider being seen with an unattractive guy.

 

[bi69todd]

Seems to me that your best course of action is to find a jack off buddy who is in similar circumstances and give each other a hand so to speak!

Then again, this is my advice for pretty much every problem. YMMV.

 

[Bighammerfucker]

I can empathize with the OP quite a bit. Even though I'm not married yet, and my fiancé and I do have sex maybe once every two weeks, let's just say it isn't always the kind of sex I want to have for the rest of my life. Not even close. I'm not sexually attracted to him, which is terrible because I love him very much and want him to be a part of my life forever. There is also the fact that I have only had sex twice with guys who were not him in my life, and both times the guys were so inexperienced and I disliked it... I do not even think it should count. Part of me wishes so badly that I could enjoy being young and hot and explore and experience the kind of sex I crave but at the same time, he isn't comfortable with that... I would be, and vice versa if he wanted to fuck someone else, but he wouldn't be... just, man, I'm only 23 and I can't remember if I've even been on a date that was with someone other than my fiancé, and these days I have guys everywhere who are very attractive not afraid to let me know they very much wish I was not engaged... It's such a tease

 

[rhod101]

.....

 

[36524]

I can empathize with the OP quite a bit. Even though I'm not married yet, and my fiancé and I do have sex maybe once every two weeks, let's just say it isn't always the kind of sex I want to have for the rest of my life. Not even close. I'm not sexually attracted to him, which is terrible because I love him very much and want him to be a part of my life forever. There is also the fact that I have only had sex twice with guys who were not him in my life, and both times the guys were so inexperienced and I disliked it... I do not even think it should count. Part of me wishes so badly that I could enjoy being young and hot and explore and experience the kind of sex I crave but at the same time, he isn't comfortable with that... I would be, and vice versa if he wanted to fuck someone else, but he wouldn't be... just, man, I'm only 23 and I can't remember if I've even been on a date that was with someone other than my fiancé, and these days I have guys everywhere who are very attractive not afraid to let me know they very much wish I was not engaged... It's such a tease

Just sounds selfish of you. You're not going to let him go, but you want to fuck around, and when you get married you'll probably only end up unhappy and regretful, maybe cheat on him. Sounds like a 23-year-old decision to me. I've only had sex with one other man, but I'm not in this relationship to own or keep anybody, or to protect myself from risk. You really need to think about what you're doing.

 

[ElliottEden]

That's too bad. This might be a tough question to answer, but are you sure she is still attracted to you? I have no doubt what you said is true, she loves you, but maybe she's not physically attracted to you right now? Do you work out? Do you make an effort to look good?

I can't answer for the OP but...

I read the original post and it resonated with me. I could write most of it myself; there are differences but the overall theme, tenor and tone is very close to my own.

There are people who just seem to decide that sex is no longer a part of their lives. Whether or not it was a conscious decision arrived at due to malice, or life situation or hormones it does not seem to matter much.

For these people having six pack abs, or a triple D breastworks does not seem to impress.

 

[Zorber]

Shallow or not, physical attractiveness is an important part of an active sex life. Everyone has things they are shallow about, me included.

I apologize for my comment sounding so harsh. It wasn't directed at you personally. Please forgive me.

 

[RockyRoll]

It seems like a lot of us have taken the same route as the OP. For me, the option to leave evaporated once our first child was born. In my case, I grew up in an extremely unstable and often hostile environment with divorces, remarriages, step parents, live-ins, step siblings, etc. all coming and going in a seemingly endless revolving door scenario. I decided that come hell or high water that my kids would NOT have to grow up like that even if I've had to cut corners on my own happiness. I just wonder how many people who have made the decision to stay regardless have done so to protect their children from what they (we) experienced as children ourselves. If you've experienced extreme instability early in life, I think clinging to stability later in life (and preserving it for our kids) is why some of us have stayed. In other words, not everyone gets everything, so we make our choices and our concessions and live with them. Then, you carve out as many slivers of happiness as you can find for yourself in between.

 

[policywank]

I can empathize with the OP quite a bit. Even though I'm not married yet, and my fiancé and I do have sex maybe once every two weeks, let's just say it isn't always the kind of sex I want to have for the rest of my life. Not even close. I'm not sexually attracted to him, which is terrible because I love him very much and want him to be a part of my life forever. There is also the fact that I have only had sex twice with guys who were not him in my life, and both times the guys were so inexperienced and I disliked it... I do not even think it should count. Part of me wishes so badly that I could enjoy being young and hot and explore and experience the kind of sex I crave but at the same time, he isn't comfortable with that... I would be, and vice versa if he wanted to fuck someone else, but he wouldn't be... just, man, I'm only 23 and I can't remember if I've even been on a date that was with someone other than my fiancé, and these days I have guys everywhere who are very attractive not afraid to let me know they very much wish I was not engaged... It's such a tease

Men want to be wanted just as much as women. How would your fiancé feel if you were committed to never cheating and willing to have sex with him but not really into it or attracted to him. That can be just as soul sucking and demoralizing as no sex or a cheating spouse?

I wouldn't want to be married to a man who was a great lay but thought I was a dud and wished he was fucking someone else.

The marriage commitment isn't just to let him fuck you, but to be actively engaged and interested in your sex life together.

 

[Hipshot1554]

I can so relate to the OP.

The one thing most of these threads/posts have in common is a lack of communication.

I have lived the life of diminishing sex for a long time. It isn't the only thing in a good relationship, but it is an important thing.

As with most problems, if you can't diagnose the cause, you cannot fix it. If your partner won't tell you how they feel about things, how do you go about making them better?

Trial and error is one way, but that can get frustrating fast.

Good luck.

 

[Algos_Idoni]

Seems to me that your best course of action is to find a jack off buddy who is in similar circumstances and give each other a hand so to speak!

Then again, this is my advice for pretty much every problem. YMMV.

Lol... There is a realism to your advice that I would be very attracted too (assuming you mean by "buddy" is female).

 

[Algos_Idoni]

I can so relate to the OP.

The one thing most of these threads/posts have in common is a lack of communication.

I have lived the life of diminishing sex for a long time. It isn't the only thing in a good relationship, but it is an important thing.

As with most problems, if you can't diagnose the cause, you cannot fix it. If your partner won't tell you how they feel about things, how do you go about making them better?

Trial and error is one way, but that can get frustrating fast.

Good luck.

Communication has been there. We have talked about it. There is agreement that sex needs to happen more often. Typically after the discussion there is great sex.

And then the next day comes and boom, back to the way it was before. Having the discussion again is just getting old, making the hints gets old, putting the moves on her that would work on any other woman gets old when nothing happens.

And maybe I am selfish, but I don't think that sex with my wife should be something that I have to earn. It's not like I am a slob around the house. It's not like I am not romantic.

 

[Algos_Idoni]

Men want to be wanted just as much as women.

Bingo. I have tried to explain how the rejection of sex, even sometimes of me just wanting to cuddle, makes me feel and the message it sends.

Usually to no avail.

 

[Algos_Idoni]

Sorry for the many multiple posts. I have been away for a week and only pop in and out to write quickly. I just want to say thanks for the amount of feedback to my OP.

 

[TomBoner]

I didn't read every single post here but here's my input regardless. See if you can talk her into getting you doctor to check her hormone levels. One of the sad things in the US right now is that all sorts of doctors are checking for male testosterone/estrogen levels but not that many are checking the same thing on women. Particularly after they have kids it can get out of whack ... but it's pretty easy to fix. Just a suggestion if you haven't considered it already.

 

[Algos_Idoni]

Not sure I fully addressed one topic raised. It is clear that there are health improvements I can make. I also want to publicly say that I wasn't offended or thought anyone was shallow for suggesting my physic as an issue.

I think it would only be shallow if it was expected only one way. In other words, the one expecting something to be a certain way, should they themselves keep it that certain way.

 

[SexyAlison]

I apologize for my comment sounding so harsh. It wasn't directed at you personally. Please forgive me.

It's okay, I did not take any offence to it.

 

[Everyday_Man]

I told my ex wife when we started dating not to cut her hair, keep herself in shape, and don't get a breast reduction. Shallow and selfish, yeah, but what drew me to her initially were those things.

Might be one of the reasons this guys old lady isn't happy... She settled. Always a horrible thing to realize when it finally comes around.

Is that what happened with your ex-wife? She realized she settled and moved on?

 

[36524]

------

 

[SexyAlison]

We are all shallow in some ways.

Up until the age of 30 every attractive female friend I had would be the first to criticize guys who didn't want to date our less attractive friends as shallow, but would not even consider being seen with an unattractive guy.

Yeah it's the hypocrites I hate.

It's okay to be shallow, but don't be upset if someone else's shallow preferences don't align with you.

 

[36524]

Yeah it's the hypocrites I hate.

It's okay to be shallow, but don't be upset if someone else's shallow preferences don't align with you.

I mean, no, it's not even really morally "okay," it's just largely accepted. Like the mispronunciation of a word, e.g., zoology, forte (unless you're reading sheet music), people know what you mean and due to how many say it incorrectly it's accepted by society. But it's still wrong.

 

[Hipshot1554]

Communication has been there. We have talked about it. There is agreement that sex needs to happen more often. Typically after the discussion there is great sex.

And then the next day comes and boom, back to the way it was before. Having the discussion again is just getting old, making the hints gets old, putting the moves on her that would work on any other woman gets old when nothing happens.

And maybe I am selfish, but I don't think that sex with my wife should be something that I have to earn. It's not like I am a slob around the house. It's not like I am not romantic.

Maybe I should have said "honest" communication. I doesn't sound like there is any understanding arrived at from your discussions. That's where the frustration part comes into play.

 

[policywank]

I mean, no, it's not even really morally "okay," it's just largely accepted. Like the mispronunciation of a word, e.g., zoology, forte (unless you're reading sheet music), people know what you mean and due to how many say it incorrectly it's accepted by society. But it's still wrong.

Perhaps it is "wrong" to be shallow, but who defines what is shallow. We all apply criteria to our selection of mates yet define shallow with reference to the criteria that we don't approve.

Most people accept physical attraction as part of what draws us to one another but get very picky as to how we are allowed to express it. "She is so pretty" is more likely to be seen as a term of endearment than "she has a great rack." "We like to talk about the same things" is more PC than saying "he is smarter than my last bf."

Personally I think that choosing a mate that matches your color and/or religion is incredibly shallow and narrow-minded, but for some people that is important. Why do they get to regard me as shallow for being with someone who is good in bed? Arguably lots of people in this conversation are struggling with the lack of sexual fulfillment in their marriage, which in some cases can be tracked back to society's imposed view that sex is too shallow of criteria to be applied to selection of a mate.

While being shallow may be wrong, none of us is qualified to determine what is or isn't shallow for others.